Re: Closet grow, an alternative to 70wt compact flourecents.

[Psoulocybe]

I gave up on hormones when I switched to perlite.... but before that only used willow stew as a hormone. Now I just do water..... fits my lazy pace.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by sandman

you can go to any walmart or homedepot and buy a tray full of jiffy pellets complete with a dome for $6. Its a great cloning mechanism!

>>> Glad you mentioned the jiffy pellets I have a few of them that I save on hand. We don't have a wallmart in my area, although plenty of Home Hardware, Home-depot, Rona, Canadian Tire. They also provide similar kinds of materials and gardening supplies. So I started my serious grow with jiffy because I found the rock-wool cubes were not working for me as much as I'd like growth wise. Perhaps I was not doing something right there with the rock-wool cubes, although I have both of these products; I like to make sure I have enough for what may come next growing wise. I think the moisture trapped in the jiffy pellets is why my plants are the size they are along with ginetics and other things going into this strain .

I look forward to trying them for the cloning too. After this grow is successful I hope to start a thread or sometime during the project related to cloning of this particular strain. For now I'm more then impressed all I can say

I will post more photos soon.

[Shrooms&I]

I took these today, enjoy the randomly sorted photos.

[kcmoxtractor]

As for the DIY humidity dome, I have never bought a real one, and I have a pretty successful cloning rate If you're using jiffy pellets, go with sandman's advice and just get the all in one for around $6. Remember that the clones don't need that much direct light, so putting them under a semi-opaque cover (such as a white plastic grocery bag) isn't bad. Misting is a good idea until you develop root tips. You can go a little easier once they are rooted.
I would go very easy on the fertilizers. Some of your plants look a little over fertilized. (The curled leaf tips.) Maybe go get some fish emulsion or organic based ferts. You could use blood/bone meal to make a tea. It is far easier to use these because they aren't so instant release.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

As for the DIY humidity dome, I have never bought a real one, and I have a pretty successful cloning rate If you're using jiffy pellets, go with sandman's advice and just get the all in one for around $6. Remember that the clones don't need that much direct light, so putting them under a semi-opaque cover (such as a white plastic grocery bag) isn't bad. Misting is a good idea until you develop root tips. You can go a little easier once they are rooted.
I would go very easy on the fertilizers. Some of your plants look a little over fertilized. (The curled leaf tips.) Maybe go get some fish emulsion or organic based ferts. You could use blood/bone meal to make a tea. It is far easier to use these because they aren't so instant release.

>>> Thanks for the observations and advice; I have noticed that too so I have resumed the regular feeding with-out the ferts. What would be the best time to feed them like once every week? Or once every month? Never the less I resumed the regular daily feeding of water only, or is that too much as well? I have noticed when reading the overgrow archives and current day articles they did speak of having the soil moist but not saturated. As to the DIY I will give that a try for sure regards the home made humidity dome. I will check more tomorrow to see how the plants are doing in full detail.

I do have a couple more questions, in regards to the over fertililizing when to feed the ferts or not to feed the ferts. When would the plants leaves return to a normal state (or where the leaves are strait and not curved)? I'm currious to know more about the experiences you have had with the kelp based, bone meal and other organic fertilizers? In my city there is a local store called David Hunter they do carry the products that you mentioned, although. I will investigate a couple others I know of store wise. I'm aware that every fert does have their recomendations and also I would like to know how much you add to your plants regards organic fertilizers?

And also how much ferts should I be using amount wise per feeding? I mainly mist or directly feed them I don't have any fancy setup just your regular spray bottle:-) I guess we all learn the hardway, heh.

You're advice is deeply appreciated, thank you.

PS: I will post more photos for observation sake too.

[kcmoxtractor]

As for watering- Pick the pot up, tilt it side to side, if you can feel that there is water in it, it probably wont need any. It will be much lighter when it needs water. Roots need oxygen like foliage needs co2(that's why hydroponics accelerates growth), if the root zone doesn't dry out between watering, you are going to get root rot. If I have accidentally over watered a plant, I will let the soil dry completely before watering again.

For fertilization- You are using organic soil so it might not even be necessary! Where you are using a small light, without co2 enrichment, The plants probably wont have much of a need for fertilizers... The beautiful thing about organics is that they only take what they need. I added a picture of the all purpose fertilizer, Espoma, that I mix into my soil. It is comprised of dehydrated manure, feather meal, crab meal, cocoa meal, corn gluten, bone meal, blood meal, sunflower meal, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, greensand, rock phosphate, sulfate of potash, sulfate of potash magnesia, and humates. It encourages beneficial microbial growth and has a 5-3-3 rating. I mix it in to my soil when I pot my plants, but it could be used for a nutrient tea also. It is far easier to feed your soil instead of feeding your plants. Mix it light, it's way easier to correct underfertilization than overfertilization.

My past experience with organic based fertilizers has been very positive. My last 3 grows have been completely organic, with no actual feeding at all, just watering and a light amount of superthrive occasionally. I used 5g buckets prior to switching to autoflowering varieties. I would add 1 g perlite, 1g garden soil, 1g potting soil, 1g earthworm casting, 1/2 g sand, then add 1/2 cup each of bone meal, blood meal, and espoma. I used a beneficial bacteria blend that a friend gave me a small amount of to. The grow ended up VERY nicely, almost 9 oz from 3 plants, but they had vegged for almost 3 months. That was with seed I had gotten from a supposed Kush cross.

The leaves probably wont return to a normal state, the curl just wont spread if you remedy the problem. Maybe flush the next time it needs watering.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

As for watering- Pick the pot up, tilt it side to side, if you can feel that there is water in it, it probably wont need any. It will be much lighter when it needs water. Roots need oxygen like foliage needs co2(that's why hydroponics accelerates growth), if the root zone doesn't dry out between watering, you are going to get root rot. If I have accidentally over watered a plant, I will let the soil dry completely before watering again.

For fertilization- You are using organic soil so it might not even be necessary! Where you are using a small light, without co2 enrichment, The plants probably wont have much of a need for fertilizers... The beautiful thing about organics is that they only take what they need. I added a picture of the all purpose fertilizer, Espoma, that I mix into my soil. It is comprised of dehydrated manure, feather meal, crab meal, cocoa meal, corn gluten, bone meal, blood meal, sunflower meal, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, greensand, rock phosphate, sulfate of potash, sulfate of potash magnesia, and humates. It encourages beneficial microbial growth and has a 5-3-3 rating. I mix it in to my soil when I pot my plants, but it could be used for a nutrient tea also. It is far easier to feed your soil instead of feeding your plants. Mix it light, it's way easier to correct underfertilization than overfertilization.

My past experience with organic based fertilizers has been very positive. My last 3 grows have been completely organic, with no actual feeding at all, just watering and a light amount of superthrive occasionally. I used 5g buckets prior to switching to autoflowering varieties. I would add 1 g perlite, 1g garden soil, 1g potting soil, 1g earthworm casting, 1/2 g sand, then add 1/2 cup each of bone meal, blood meal, and espoma. I used a beneficial bacteria blend that a friend gave me a small amount of to. The grow ended up VERY nicely, almost 9 oz from 3 plants, but they had vegged for almost 3 months. That was with seed I had gotten from a supposed Kush cross.

The leaves probably wont return to a normal state, the curl just wont spread if you remedy the problem. Maybe flush the next time it needs watering.

>>> Great advice again thank you your right about the minimal Co2 contribution I don't have anything for a direct source yet. Although I do have fan set to medium speed which the plants do seem to enjoy. Do you use a fan or fans with your grow setups? Fan or no fan I do relize that air-circulation is needed it's one of the keys of growing great plants. So I will follow the tricks and advice you recommened.

Very clear tips and great information, you really helped my knowledge to improve on this, again thank you for sharing your knowledge. I do see your point about the organic so I'm definately getting some organic ferts via the source-materials you suggested, the kelp and so on.

I will be posting the brand name, source materials and recommended dosages for the fertilizers so that we can comapare and go on from there

Again thank you.

[kcmoxtractor]

With as small as your lights are, I dunno if co2 enrichment would really help, your plant can't exceed its biggest growth limiting factor.

You should check out this link for a basic overview.
http://www.highnutrients.com/limiting-factors.html

I definitely use fans for my setup, A box fan on medium or high, depending on whether using 1 or 2 400 watt bulbs. If I add the second bulb I add more air movement also.

Attached is a picture of the organic nutrients that I spoke of in my above post.

I'm happy that I can help!
KC

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

With as small as your lights are, I dunno if co2 enrichment would really help, your plant can't exceed its biggest growth limiting factor.

You should check out this link for a basic overview.
http://www.highnutrients.com/limiting-factors.html

I definitely use fans for my setup, A box fan on medium or high, depending on whether using 1 or 2 400 watt bulbs. If I add the second bulb I add more air movement also.

Attached is a picture of the organic nutrients that I spoke of in my above post.

I'm happy that I can help!
KC

Thank you we do have a similar brand available, I will get some tomorrow, although low and behold I found that I did have some bone meal "all bone meal" a good generic product I know many friends who are 'ornamental or culinary herb gardeners' they use and enjoy the 'bone meal' stuff too. I'ts similar to what you recommended.

The good news is I mixed in the ingredients to the soil mix, now I just got to get the larger pots, I will have them cleaned and prepaired tonight as well. Lots to do for a successfull grow but absolutely worth every second of commitment though. Personally I'm more then pleased with the knowledge you shared with me as well. Again much appreciated.

I have a one gallon bucket which I mixed in the following

first the soil
then the vermiculite
then the all bone meal.

Basically for my bucket
Filled the bucket with the soil

3 3/4th cups of vermiculite

3 1/4th cups of bone meal

And a very thurough mix

Did I over do this? or no?

As to the perlite, the soil mix I use is pre-mixed with perlite I'm not sure the exact ammount although I guess I should add some in just not as much as I need too. I'm glad I got the soil-mixing done today to have the organic soils ready for these plants, they are wanting bigger pots, lol :-).

[kcmoxtractor]

1/2 cup bone meal should be plenty...
more than that and you might burn them up the first time you water.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

1/2 cup bone meal should be plenty...
more than that and you might burn them up the first time you water.

Thanks for the tips as always, I added that just correctly when I mixed in the bone meal. After I started mixing in the fresh soil with the perlite and vermiculite:-).

[wendal]

How many watts are those sockets rated to?

My local H***eD***t has 100w CFL bulbs for $17 a pop. They are supposed to put out the equivalent of 1000w.

Almost bought some, but I wasn't sure if a normal socket could support 100w light. ( the box for the actual bulb states you need a 100w socket)

[weeeeeee]

Originally Posted by wendal

How many watts are those sockets rated to?

My local H***eD***t has 100w CFL bulbs for $17 a pop. They are supposed to put out the equivalent of 1000w.

Almost bought some, but I wasn't sure if a normal socket could support 100w light. ( the box for the actual bulb states you need a 100w socket)

hrmm that soundssssssss awesome you should snap a pic sometime you sure its not the 65 watters

[wendal]

Here is the same bulb: http://doitbest.com/Main.aspx?PageID...paign=DATAFEED

It has a mogul base though. So you would have to buy specific socket for it.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by wendal

Here is the same bulb: http://doitbest.com/Main.aspx?PageID=64&SKU=510922&utm_source=Froogle& utm_medium=FREECSE&utm_term=510922&utm_content=679 0&utm_campaign=DATAFEED

It has a mogul base though. So you would have to buy specific socket for it.

>>> Hi there, thanks for the suggestion, I have seen these around although as for the mogul base is that the same as the kind they use for the 400 watt HPS setups? I do have a small 70WT HPS bulb with ballast its one of those outdoor security light setups yet I will give this a try when its time for my plants to be ready for their flowering... :-).

[kcmoxtractor]

That wont be a bad lighting setup for just a couple of small plants. Keep your CFLs in there also, they will provide some nice side lighting! How tall are your plants? You might want to consider switching to flower soon!
Youre gonna have to actually look at the socket to find out. I have a 125wt 6500k CFL that has a mogul socket and a 105wt 2700k that has a normal socket.
The photo is the 105wt with bic lighter for size comparison. It was purchased from grow wurks hydroponic supplies. I got two of them for $68.

[wendal]

The thing I don't understand is, will these mogul base large watt CFL still run at 110v or do they need a transformer like with HID lighting?

[kcmoxtractor]

Nope, mine just plugs in. Check it.
120V 60Hz 125W 6400k 1.49A
Using it for cooking spices right now. Basil, Oregano, Rosemary, Coriander, and Catnip.

[wendal]

Awesome.

Hows the temp on those? They throw allot of heat off?

[kcmoxtractor]

Nope... Not much at all really. Its really silly how big the bulbs are though
I'm gonna have a test run from seed to finished with them really soon.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

That wont be a bad lighting setup for just a couple of small plants. Keep your CFLs in there also, they will provide some nice side lighting! How tall are your plants? You might want to consider switching to flower soon!
Youre gonna have to actually look at the socket to find out. I have a 125wt 6500k CFL that has a mogul socket and a 105wt 2700k that has a normal socket.
The photo is the 105wt with bic lighter for size comparison. It was purchased from grow wurks hydroponic supplies. I got two of them for $68.

>>> I've seen these before they are nice bulbs, thanks for the info as always. That sounds like a similar price some charge a bit higher or around the same $70.xx Canadian which is the price that I encountered. I thought to start with the CFLs to see how I could do but I think purchasing one of these at least is worth it along with the mogul socket. A picture of the socket would also be worth upload. Basically the same wiring though? I think by adding this along with the two CFLs I currently have would be enough for my small grow space to produce nice big green plants

My plants are quite large these days although nice and bushy especially two of them. I've had to transplant a couple plants into larger pots. The beauty of transplanting is you know when you have to transplant, when observing the roots at the bottom of the pots :-). There is a very nice aromatic smell in my little space, mmmmmm nice smell :-). I kept in mind what you said about the recommended fertilizers, regards organic ferts. I do have the bone meal which I have been using at the recommended amounts for the soil mixture. I do have a bone and blood meal mix too.

I'm curious about the two different ferts though, I read on the web that bone meal is a slow-release fertilizer correct or no? and I'm curious to when I should change to the blood and bone meal mix fertilizer during the flowering or is this recommended?

As to the 70 watt bulb I was going to ask the same question regards if the bulb required a ballast like the HPS although from reading the threads apparently not that is another nice advantage. I will pickup the bulb and socket soon.

The other question is I do have a 70 watt ballast for a outdoor security light which is HPS (High pressure sodium) would that work as well as the 70 watt CFL bulb regards colour temps and flowering? I'm curious to see what people say about this yet at the same time. I'm more comfortable using the 70 watt CFL bulb much-less electricity consumed I would guess.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

Nope, mine just plugs in. Check it.
120V 60Hz 125W 6400k 1.49A
Using it for cooking spices right now. Basil, Oregano, Rosemary, Coriander, and Catnip.

>>> I see, I was going to ask "what strain are you growing", heheh. Although handy for many other herbs too.

[Shrooms&I]

I thought to share a couple of photos of my best looking plant.

Side and top view of plants.

Enjoy :-).

[Shrooms&I]

Some recent photos, a week ago I set the timer to 12/12 now. So hopefully by the end of next month they should be flowering fully... I don't know how long this strain takes since it is my first serious grow. However I will keep you up to date, all plants are transplanted. I'm using the organic bone meal fertilizer as recommended.

[kcmoxtractor]

Looking nice! That strain takes about 7-9 weeks to finish from when you switched to 12/12.
I would definitely add the 70 wt HPS to that small setup ASAP. The CFL and HPS will use around the same amount of electricity, but the CFL will produce less heat. To fix that problem just point a fan directly along your HPS bulb. Your CFL seems to be in the warmer spectrum, so the HPS will be something close to that color light.

The 105 watt CFL bulbs that I purchased from grow wurks do not require a mogul socket.
Just a medium sized normal lamp socket.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

Looking nice! That strain takes about 7-9 weeks to finish from when you switched to 12/12.
I would definitely add the 70 wt HPS to that small setup ASAP. The CFL and HPS will use around the same amount of electricity, but the CFL will produce less heat. To fix that problem just point a fan directly along your HPS bulb. Your CFL seems to be in the warmer spectrum, so the HPS will be something close to that color light.

The 105 watt CFL bulbs that I purchased from grow wurks do not require a mogul socket.
Just a medium sized normal lamp socket.

Thanks for the compliments, much appreciated so is your experience and knowledge sure helped me along the way.

As to the 105CFL lamps; are they the same sockets as the "outdoor security HPS" use?

Here are the photos for my 70watt set up let me know what you think, cheers.

1.) The first photo shows the bulb socket assembly
2.) 2nd photo shows the ballast specifications.
3.) 3rd photo shows the wiring schematic on the ballast (very useful:-).
4.) 4rth photo shows the ballast with socket assembly.

The ballast specifications
Model No: 71A7907
70WT 120vAC (volts)

As for the fan yes I have one of those i do set it for minimum or low speed I read that the cannabis plants do some what enjoy the air circulation when it hits against them?

So far the electrical consumption with my two lamps are per lamp.

CFL Lamp 1) 42 watt
CFL Lamp 2) 42 watt
===========
Total watts consumed

84 watts used 2 CFL Lamps

The idea comes from the commercial ballasts I've seen. You know the kind are set inside the aluminum cases :-).

[Shrooms&I]

Its been a long while, although I must say the first grow was a success I was most pleased