Some Invitro questions need answering! [merged]

[elixir]

When should I flip the jars? Should I start them lid up or lid down? Finally, should the innoc holes be covered? If so, should I remove the tape and when?

Thanks! =]

[I_am_me]

Just leave the foil on the top of the jars, no need for tape over the holes after innoculation.

Start em lid up. Flip em after 100% colonization.

[I_am_me]

Oh yea, remember to give em light from day 1. It helps speed pinning along.

[elixir]

Its a little late for the foil. =P Any other suggestions?

I'm personally not a fan of leaving foil on jars. I remove it right after the pc cycle. The reason is your jars are moist. If you leave foil on, that moisture might work into either your filter disk or dry verm layer. A moist filter can allow contamination, mostly bacteria, to colonize right through the wet filter. You want your filter material to stay totally dry at all times.

As said, flip at 100%, as this will help the CO2 to escape, thus triggering pinning. Give light from day one. That's all there is to it, besides patience.

[cutty]

Patience is the hardest part IMO.Good luck with your grow.

[shedthemonkey]

Strange. I didn't flip my last batch of jars at all and they pinned tremendously. Good luck with that. Likely it makes the grower feel better.

[perrch01]

I find that whenever I don't flip my jars I get one huge one that curls around the top rim of the jar, when this has happened it has been about two inches before any other pins appeared and I didn't even know it was there

Come to think of it, I don't flip mine either...lol. I don't do brf though, only whole grains.

[destroy_erase_improve]

Come to think of it, I don't flip mine either...lol

lol, my buddy is the same way, she only does grains. although if she WERE going to do brf again, she'd go invitro .

[perrch01]

I've only had one spot of luck with grains, in a mycobag. Invitro (is it still invitro if its in a bag?) copes, not a big flush but still it was something

[LaughingDog]

I'm with Rodger on taking the foil off right away, it traps moisture on the lid. Personally I flip mine from day one and give them light 8-12 hours a day, works for me.

[TheMycoMan]

These questions may have been asked but here they are anyway......

1)What are prefereable strains for invitro culture....
-are equadorians, hawaiians and treasure coasts good?

2)What are the details on the invitro method where the jars are not opened till the cake has been fully used , leaving a mass of mostly mushy goodness
--is it worth the wait
--how do i know it is done?
--how do the mushrooms not rot and induce contamination?

3)can i induce mutations using blacklights that would be useful in terms of potency?

[imok]

1st Welcome to Mycotopia
"mi casa es su casa" spanish
"a minha casa é a tua casa" portuguese

2nd In regard to your questions:
(1) Any strain can be used invitro. I think Hippie prefers SAs though.
(2) A relative question, but almost guaranteed success so I would say yes.
You can see when the jar stops flushing, and you no longer pick any more shrooms(or the jar contams).
You pick the shrooms, either all of them or just the ones that are mature.
(3) Don't use blacklight, doesn't affect potency at all.

3rd Here are some links that will help you with the BRF and other teks.

Link: Archives Has all of the collected wisdom, and information needed to be successful in this hobby(there is alot of info there, check the archives out yourself, updated often).

Link: Glossary If you don't understand a term look it up here.

Link: Search If you can't find it in the Glossary, use the Search function at the top of every page to search the archives and the rest of the board too.

Link: Illustrated Teks Complete step by step instructions with pictures(best of the best from the archives)

Link: Mycotopia's CD Set Mycotopia's entire database on a 2 cd set(useful information, photographs, TEKS, commentary, questions & answers, Shroomy ScreenSaver, Interactive Grower's Guide by Bookmaker and a Shroomy FAQ)

The following teks are from the front page of the Archives:

Link: BRF TEK: Cakes The original BRF Tek with all the details you need to be successful the first time.

Link: Improving BRF Cake Formula-Super Cakes Getting the best out of your cakes(not for beginners).

Link: Invitro [MycroTeks] Combines the BRF jar creation tek with a way to pursue this hobby with minimal labor and maximum stealth. Also known as the Invitro/stealth/neglect tek(has several names but the same basic tek)

Link: Sterilization & Pasturization Methods Keeping it clean and growing only what you want.

Link: Dunking Increase the number of flushes and the size of your shrooms(Important if using the invitro tek as a way to get the shroom its needed moisture; the shroom is 90% moisture)

Link: Bleach Dipping/ Salt Tek How to prevent contams and extend the life of your cakes/casings as well as what to do if your casings do get contamed(dipping follows dunking)

Link: Drug Dosage & Dosing: Recipes & Extracts How to enjoy the fruits of your labor safely (don't overdo it, slow and sure is the best way)

Link: Drying/Storage: Picking/Harvesting What to do with the shrooms when you are successful(you don't have to let the excess rot, you can store it for later instead)

Link: Spores, Prints & Syringes How to make your own syringes from prints and how to get prints from shrooms(become totally self sufficient with this information)

Link: Liquid Culture: Karo/Honey/Dextrose Q&A Ways to increase the amount of inoculate available(grow solution) without buying more syringes or prints(can also be combined with [url="http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/2571.html?1085106418, Cloning[/url"]).

Link: Cloning A way to select the shrooms that do the best with your tek/environment/way of growing(combine with Liquid Culture to massively increase your production)

Link: Gloveboxes & Flowhoods How to eliminate your chances of contams while working with syringes/prints/cloning(A cheap cardboard glovebox is better than the cleanest room)

Link: Casings The next step in to bulk production both indoors and out(get familiar with the previous teks and you will increase your odds of success)

Link: Grain to Grain Transfers (G2G) & SuperSpawning Best ways to create the spawn/substrate for your casings(you can do it with cakes but grain is the best)

Link: Agar, Petri dishes, slants [Strain Isolation] For those who want to take this hobby all the way(scientific method required)

Link: Botanicals Other natural ethnogens(intended to expand your horizons)

Link: Secrecy & Stealth ; Privacy & Security Ideas on how to cover your backside as you participate in this hobby(better to learn from the experiences of others than first hand)

Spore/Supply vendor questions
The "price" is less important than the relationship you
establish with them and your comfort in dealing with them.
We have sponsors/vendors in the USA, Canada and Europe.
You have to determine which one(s) work best in your situation.

Link: Sponsors/Vendors Hippie guaranteed good service and products.
All vendors have been checked out and are monitored. If you
have a problem you can't work out with the vendor directly,
just PM Hippie and he will get it straight for you.

[TheMycoMan]

Thanks for the answers and links..... my real meaty question though i belived was phrased wrong.....

My invitro question pertains to a post made a while back where instead of picking the individual flushes you let the cake flush all the way till it is exhausted and then harvest the resulting "mushy layers"

[LaughingDog]

Texans work great invitro.

[destroy_erase_improve]

i have to agree
from what ive seen
tex just cant wait to pin, even for people who DONT want invitro

[nomoreusmc]

I think I understand your question. No you can't wait untill the cake is exausted to pick. That is guarenteed contam from the first flushes rotting. You have to pick after each flush. If the fruits start to rott you have invited contam into your jars and that just ruins all you hard work

[imok]

You have to dunk the invitro cake if you want more than one flush(see dunking & bleach dipping above).
The shroom is approx 90% h20 so you have to replace the moisture used from the cake during the growth cycle.
You can wait till the first shroom starts to turn black/rot and then remove the cake from the jar, pick all of the shrooms then dunk/dip and put the cake back in the jar for the next flush.
Or you can pull and pick the ones that have stopped growing, put the cake back in and let the smaller shrooms complete and then dunk/dip and go again.
It is up to you.
Most report the smaller shrooms come off when you pick the larger ones so in general it is best to pull and pick then dunk and dip when the largest shroom in the jar gets ready to go bad.
This way you can get three or four(or more) flushes before pitching the cake and starting over.

[sammy54543]

i said earlier i have a few quart jars im planning on doing the BRF invitro tek with. can i incubate them only at 76 degrees or can i go higher and reduce when fully colonized? do i need the light on them right from innoculation or can i wait til full colonization as well? thanks 4 that link earlier hippie! yopos 2 trade pm me

Put light on them from the start. Incubating at 76 will work but you can up that to about 80 for a little faster colonization, and then reduce the heat to about 75 for fruiting to occur.

I find light from the start is best for invitro jars also.

Can I ask why quart jars with brf? Those could take a really long time and possibly stall. Are you inoculating multi-spore or with liquid culture?

[sammy54543]

with liquid.I had an extra jar lying around and plenty of stuff 2 work with so I figured I'd experiment a bit with it.It cant hurt,what the hell..

Right on Sammy, good luck with the quart invitro. I'm glad to know you're using lc to inoculate it.

[sammy54543]

Thanks-I'll keep ya posted on how it goes.I'm PC'ing the jar as we speak.When that's done my syringe will be next.When they cool I'll suck up then purge the LC before filling the syringe to break up the mycelium. By the way how many cc's should I use? Also the holes I punched in the lid aren't too big,so should I LOOSEN the lid once in a while to allow air/gas exchange or will I be all right? Foil?

I only use foil covers when pc'ing. Then I remove them right away so no water can sit between the foil and the lid.

I'd probably use 1 cc of the lc syringe per hole. And I probably would have made a 5th center hole to inoculate the center as well as the 4 outside points.
You'd probably be good with 4-6 cc's of lc inoculated in the quart jar. You'll have to guage the moisture level of the jar though. If it seems really moist, I'd use less lc, if it seems on the dry side, use a bit more lc.

As it grows you can probably loosen the lid a bit, though this will also dry the cake out a bit more then if its tightened.

Good luck and definitely let us know how it goes!

[~Hippie3]

you should post the yopo offer in our marketplace forum

[sammy54543]

thanks for the tips,I'll be hitting em later with the LC. Ill check the mktplace and make a post!

[Id13]

High! I'm planning on growing some mushies for my first time using that nice looking invitro tek by Hippie3. I'm at the phase of gathering materials and still have a lot of questions. First off, I'm growing this stealthily, because it is necessary. I plan to do this all inside a lockable trunk. So that's where my first questions comes in: 1. does anyone know where I could find a nice sized lockable trunk? I saw one on Walmart's site so I'm going to be checking them out later this week.

My next problem is heating. I have no idea what a safe way to heat the jars would be inside of said trunk. 2. Any thoughts? I'd prefer not to use water for the incubation because I'm going to have to be moving the trunk around a little bit and wouldn't want to spill.

Another problem I've come across is finding those damn glass jars. Most stores don't seem to sell glass canning jars in bulk anymore. 3. Where did everyone get their's? I'm trying not to order stuff online because I don't have a credit card/paypal etc. (I'm looking to get what the article suggests: 12 1/2 pint jars preferably wide mouthed)

Next issue is spores. I don't want to order stuff online, but I will have to for this. 4. Could anyone suggest a reputable site with good prices/shipping times? Also, I would prefer this site to have money order options, otherwise I'll have to find someone to order for me. 5. Also, what strain/strains should I try out? I'm looking for something with a good, fast yield - fast being the most important. 6. How long about will it be before I can first harverst (aborts?) ?

I bought one push light for lighting purposes. 7. Is this enough and how often/when should I start exposing the shroomies to light?

Thanks!

[711]

I have no idea what a safe way to heat the jars would be inside of said trunk. 2. Any thoughts?

People have used the "heat bomb" with the cap still on the jar and siliconed up to prevent leaks. It shouldn't spill water from moving, Just unplug and move your trunk.http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthre...ight=heat+bomb (the heatbomb incubator [merged])

3. Where did everyone get their's

Wal mart, Kmart, Top shelves of aisles in big grocery stores. Maybe even sears or Big lot if you got one. Also look here.http://www.mycotopia.net/site/banner.php?25

4. Could anyone suggest a reputable site with good prices/shipping times?

Check out and compare the sponsors for this site. See which one fits your needs best. They are all reputable or they wouldn't be allowed.

. Is this enough and how often/when should I start exposing the shroomies to light?

Double check the invitro tek, but I think you can start shortly after germination for a couple minutes a day.http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1107470526

Hope i COULD HELP A LIL.

[reefer]

"My next problem is heating. I have no idea what a safe way to heat the jars would be inside of said trunk. 2. Any thoughts? I'd prefer not to use water for the incubation because I'm going to have to be moving the trunk around a little bit and wouldn't want to spill."

If you're going for stealth and you're going to be moving the trunk sometimes, I wouldn't worry about adding any heat. Your jars will colonize just fine at room temp. A very small light is all you need to initiate pinning, with invitro you want to start exposing them to light from the beginning. a few minutes to a few hours a day is fine.

[~Hippie3]

a light will also give heat

[Id13]

Well I won't be moving it to much, it's just that I'll probably have to move it if I want to check on the jars, turn the light on/off and what not.

Thanks!

[blackout]

Sclerotia needs no light or frequent checking. I have been messing with a broken aquairum heater to hook it up to a bulb so it acts as a thermostat. You can get a digital thermostat and plug in a low power light bulb to get heat and light very cheaply. Or if you get the light power exactly right and incubate it against temp fluctuations you can just use the light on its own like Hippie mentioned.

[IntheJungle]

High guys I know this girl who has been doing her homework for a couple months and as a first timer she will go with the Chronic/Hippy Invitro tek(s). She still needs a little clear up/help from all you experts out there. She already has a pressure canner, wide mouth mason jars (1/2 and 1 pint jars), some Walmart Rubbermaid storage containers, and is getting ready to get the other materials. She was planning on doing about 5-7 of the 1/2 pint jars or however many will can be used for one syringe b/c she heard that they colonize and grow faster in the 1/2 jars. She also said that she will start off with the Texans.

1) What type of Vermiculite should be used for Invitro? The fine, medium, coarse?

2) She was also asking if anyone has tips for heating those Rubbermaid containers. And does anyone know how to cheaply heat one of those that it wouldn't be a fire hazard? Basically, I think she was little confused on making a heater and maintaining heat.

3) She also wanted to clear up about keeping the cakes in the 1/2pt jars until flushing/dunking, clean the jar, and put the cake back into the jar afterwards? Or birthing them into the Qt jars after pinning, and then do the flushing/dunking as needed? Also should she need keep the holes open in the jars for breathing, or keep tape on them? Would she need to use chicken wire stuff for the cakes to breath?

4)And what about putting pvc piping in the 1/2pt jars? What length would she do if that is nessassary?

And any insider tips from you experts?
Sorry if she confused you guys she sort of gets a little all over the place when she has many questions.

[BuckarooBanzai]

1> If you can get varying kinds of vermiculite, use the fine for your filter layer on top and coarse to mix your cakes. If you can only get one kind, use whatever you can get your hands on.

2> A nice, safe heat source for inside a tub is a heat bomb:
http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthre...light=heatbomb (the heatbomb incubator [merged])

A nice, safe source for heating a tub from the outside is the "Tub In Tub" mentioned at the bottom of that thread.

A DANGEROUS way to provide heat is a heating pad/electric blanket.

If you are doing the invitro tek, whatever light source you use inside your tub will provide some heat, as well.

I can't give you good answers on 3 and 4, because I've never used an invitro tek.

[perrch01]

3. You can birth into quart jars ala Chronic tek if you want or just fruit them in the 1/2 pints. Leave the holes open so they can breath, the four holes from inoculation will provide enough air.

4. You wouldn't be able to fit pvc pipe into the 1/2 pint too well with the cake inthere but it would be what you would use for quart jars, get a foot of pvc and cut it into one inch sections...

[~Hippie3]

1] i like medium as it's all-purpose but if one has it, i'd use coarse in the cake itself and fine for the top layer of dry verm .

2] a lighbulb serves to give heat and light safely

3] they do ok in the same jars, no great need to move.

4] why ?

[IntheJungle]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

1]

4] why ?

Good question I think she was a little confused about that.
Thank you for helping

[navyseals101]

Due to high demand for stealth I have to grow invitro, Anyways I put 6 fully colonized brf/verm invitro style cakes upside down inside of a rubbermaid that has a hole cut in the top with a light shinning through. I used B+ strain. I put verm on top and bottom... of the jars

My questions are... Should i dump the verm out or leave it in? I left it in

Will B+ be suitable?

What if i get some mushrooms but its not all mushrooms? Does that mean i have to pick them and dry them before they rot?

Any advice would be much appreciated... temperature is kept close to 75F as possible

[python]

just innoc them as i assume u have, and keep them in the invitro housing chamber with the light like you mentioned.............

B+ along with most cubie strains work well,

you'll know when to pick the boomers.......but ya, dont let em rot...........

peace

[navyseals101]

Ok are there any good lighting cycles that I need or not? I want to get a electrical timer from the local market and set it for 12/12 because i heard that its the best

[Stenciler]

Fungi only need the light to know when to pin and where to send pins. Invitro is really low maintenence as far as lighting, you could probably get away with setting them on a window sill with a lightly colored cloth over them for stealth. As long as there's light for a 3rd of their day, they'll be happy. There's a really huge window on ratios, but 12/12 is standard.

[~Hippie3]

there is no optimum light schedule really,
a brief flash of bright light every day
will trigger pinning.