Psilocybe West Virginian specimens....

Lazlo · 05-02-06, 00:04

These were found growing in Tera Alta, WV. These specimens were found growing on horse manure on trails and a field on private property for hunting deer and turkey. The finders were hunting Morel mushrooms. Each consumed the mushrooms and tripped. They appear to be Ps. Cubensis. What do you think? The specimens are short and thick. The mushrooms were harvested in abundance, around 20-30 of them in a small area. Here's 2 of the specimens they saved for me. Nice guys. Getting a spore print is unlikely so, I snapped a stem for cloning in case the cap doesn't print. I hope to get a print but, they are both very dry. We'll see. Just in case, cloning is back up. [IMG]

[/IMG]

I_am_me · 05-02-06, 00:34

You could always take a sample of the gill for cloning, thats bound to have spores and you could isolate away from any contams. Looks like cubensis to me but ya never know.

DocOc · 05-02-06, 00:36

Nice work man!

cap · 05-02-06, 01:05

that is really cool.
love the chubby look to em laz. thx for sharin the story with us and the cool pix
im not going to try to ID them they look too much like cubies to me to start second guessing

are you using agar to clean these up?

keepin my fingers crossed for ya

Lazlo · 05-02-06, 01:54

A sample of tissue was taken from within the stem and applied to MEA for back up. I've rehydrated a cap and am now trying a print. We'll see.

~Hippie3 · 05-02-06, 07:14

Quote:

in abundance, around 20-30 of them in a small area

proly found someone's outdoor patch,
way too cold in w.v. for cubies to winter over...

golly · 05-02-06, 07:28

Tera alta is one of the coldest regions in WV. ...very interesting find...hope u can propagate em somehow...

SharkieJones · 05-02-06, 08:07

That's interesting. Please keep us posted.

05-02-06, 08:33

Nice find! Looks like cubes to me.

05-02-06, 10:42

awsome find...

Lazlo · 05-02-06, 12:14

I thought the same thing Hippie but, he said they were growing off manure in several spots along a trail and in a field. He said it was chilly and was raining hard the first night they arrived there. The next day they hunted Morel's, finding these as well on a beautiful day.

Anyone ever heard of or seen these being around WV?

TVCasualty · 05-02-06, 14:35

Maybe you are about to have another good cold-temp strain of cubes available...best of luck in your efforts.

It could still possibly be an intentional grow; maybe someone scattered spores or some spawn on the manure they found, or even that P. cubensis, like many non-natives, is adapting and moving into new climate zones. Like fire ants, which are slowly moving north as well.

Lazlo · 05-02-06, 17:37

I somewhat know the owner of the property and am having doubts they were intentionally put there. I wish I had been able to go on the trip.

the_chosen_one · 05-02-06, 17:51

Man, I'm subscribing to this one!!!! Great work Laz!!! Can't wait to see where this takes us.

~Hippie3 · 05-02-06, 18:54

it's possible the horses were fed grain/straw that had cubie spores on it,
it's possible that someone trespassed to do their grow.
it's not that species are deliberately moving north into new climates,
rather it's that
climate itself is changing,
enabling species to live where they could not in the past.
but i'd still be very skeptical about
cubies native to west virginia.
it's not quite that warm yet.

Bobcat · 05-02-06, 22:56

If they were native to the WV, that would be ballz-to-the-wall awesome! The best cold hardy cub yet!

Lazlo · 05-03-06, 06:23

Our old buddy Karl Finn was a WV'ian. Maybe he'll chime in.

TVCasualty · 05-03-06, 11:35

Fire ants are deliberately moving north. Well, I use 'deliberately' kind of loosely here. They are hybridizing with native ants that are cold hardier. Either way, they are definitely moving into areas where they don't have to compete with other fire ant colonies, and that is to the north. Climate change meets them halfway, accelerating the process. Hybridization/evolution coupled with climate change would likely create evolutionary effects that manifest much quicker than would have been previously thought, mainly because the entire biosphere is in an unprecedented situation so science has no benchmark to measure by.

Lazlo · 05-17-06, 21:41

cap · 05-17-06, 21:46

what's happnin?!

Workman · 05-17-06, 21:54

Lazlo:

If you fail and really want this strain I can easily do a spore extraction from a dried gill and get it back to you. I've done it successfully dozens of times, even with herbarium specimens and specimens crush to dust in the mail.

Lazlo · 05-17-06, 22:05

The tissue sample was apparently not a good one. I'm running away from bacteria on agar. Hopefully this transfer will work out. The amount of visible mushroom mycelium was very small. Just enough on top of the tissue to scrape off for tranfer. So the transfer was very hard with the unsteady hands I have. A small amount of the stem was refridgerated in case of failure.

I'll send you a sample Workman if needed.

Workman · 05-17-06, 22:33

Good luck!

SporeAddik1 · 05-17-06, 23:42

I would do a gill transfer, thats probably your best bet, like i_am_me said, however it sucks if you can't get an actual clone. GOOD LUCK MAN!

Lazlo · 05-18-06, 06:50

I made a new plate last night with 2 samples.

apokalypse · 05-18-06, 07:30

It'll be interesting to see what this turns out to be.. are you going to have someone analyze it under a scope? Best of luck!

BennyBlanco · 05-18-06, 08:47

GL Lazo....

05-18-06, 09:00

This is cool. Workman, if you get a sample will you please post your technique here?

~Hippie3 · 05-18-06, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazlo

I made a new plate last night with 2 samples.

05-18-06, 11:58

Good Luck with the dishes Lazlo! Hope they grow well for you

Lazlo · 05-19-06, 13:44

Here are the 2 dishes. The first dish is the transfer dish. As you can see the transfer was very sloppy from the size of it. I knew bacteria would be transfered as well, so I swabbed a 1/2 dollar sized shot of 3% H202 on the inoculation point to see if it would help out. It appears to be helping a lot. At first sight I thought the transfer was doomed because it looked as if bacteria was spreading from the transfer, but it's whitening up and spreading out nicely.

This is the new plate with 2 inoculations. It's hard to see but, they appear to be a lot cleaner than my first attempt. It looks as if i'll have plenty of good mushroom mycelium to work with now.

the_chosen_one · 05-19-06, 14:12

Wooohooo!!!

Nice work Lazlo!

Bobcat · 07-14-06, 23:37

Updates?

bullfrog · 07-15-06, 00:18

in john allen's site [i think] , there is writings of mushroom
articles on a page . anyway it tells of a place in wva where
people got in trouble when they got caught picking native ps
cubies. i'll look for the article and post it. i hope you got the
strain. good luck man. bllfrg

bullfrog · 07-15-06, 00:33

Intelligencer & Wheeling News-Register
Wed, 15 May 2002

ILLEGAL MUSHROOM PICKING LEADS TO ARRESTS
by
John Phillips

Approximately 50 people have been arrested in connection with picking of psilocybin mushrooms near Castleman's Run Road in Brooke County near Bethany.

Brooke County Sheriff Bernie Kazienko confirmed Tuesday the arrests have been made since May 1, and 30 more people face charges of picking the psilocybin mushroom. Kazienko explained that the psilocybin mushroom, when ingested, produces a mild hallucinogenic effect or "buzz."

Psilocybin mushrooms are classified as a controlled substance under the West Virginia Controlled Substance Act.

"This is an annual event during the mushroom season, which is May through September," Kazienko explained.

"The last couple of years, we've been watching the area, and watching which mushrooms have been picked."

He said that while the arrests have been made during the initial investigation, many suspects also were charged with possession of marijuana either on their person or in vehicles. Some individuals attempted to escape the area and were charged with fleeing from police.

"We've actually come in contact with approximately 100 people, and other charges are pending on close to a total of 80 individuals," Kazienko said. "There are also juveniles involved."

He said the property is owned by Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel Corp. and that the steel company has been cooperative.

He also said he met with an environmentalist and an attorney from Wheeling-Pitt, which owns 160 acres in the area.

"We took them to the scene," Kazienko said, adding that since the meeting, Wheeling-Pitt has contacted the West Virginia University Extension Office and the West Virginia Department of Natural Resources.

"They wanted to see what they could do to eradicate the mushrooms," Kazienko said.

He said there are other options, such as using a bulldozer to clear the area.

"There will be costs for Wheeling-Pitt associated with that," Kazienko said.

Wheeling-Pitt has since hired security personnel to patrol the area. Bethany College security also is involved in the patrolling.

"We're going to have people indicted by the grand jury on June 3 in connection with the mushroom incidents," Kazienko said. "Some have been arrested for possession with intent to deliver the mushrooms and others for possession with intent to deliver marijuana."

Brooke County Sheriff's Deputy Steve Seminsky also has been working on the investigation and confirmed more warrants will be issued. He said some plain clothes officers also have been on patrol.

"We're learning this has been going on for several years," Seminsky said. "We've found people out there from the break of day to late evenings, just after dark." Seminsky said, explaining that none of those arrested had to be transported to the Brooke County Jail in Wellsburg, but were processed at the scene.

"Our biggest concern is the safety of the individuals," Seminsky added. "We don't want them ODing on the mushroom or taking the wrong mushroom and dying."

Charges were were logged against people from Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

A person arrested for simple possession faces a misdemeanor charge and the penalties can include 90 days to six months in jail, a fine of up to $1,000, or both. Persons also may be placed on probation for six months.

Persons found in possession of the mushrooms with intent to deliver or sell face a felony charge and that carries a prison term of one to five years, a fine of up to $15,000, or both. In addition, any property connected to the incident may be seized, pending forfeiture through the court system.

Return to the Grape Vine Index
Retrn to Main Index

from mushroom john's site

Lazlo · 07-15-06, 04:37

This place consists of around 9000 acres. This story isn't affiliated with the area these came from.

What's up Bullfrog?

I'm not familiar with this area though. I'll check it out. Thanks.

The culture is on ice for now, but ready to go.

bullfrog · 07-15-06, 08:47

howdy lazlo,

how's it going? good i hope . all is well here. i have some new shiitake cultures , if ya' want one.

golly · 07-15-06, 09:28

So they wanna bulldoze an entire habitat...how fucked up is that...
Hey Laz...your sitting on the find of the 21st century man -u gotta grow em out...

I'm just messin with ya, but i would love to see em go pop..

Lazlo · 07-15-06, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullfrog

howdy lazlo,

how's it going? good i hope . all is well here. i have some new shiitake cultures , if ya' want one.

I've got some, but thanks for the offer man.

I'll start to attempt fruitings soon.

Lazlo · 07-15-06, 13:58

Oh Lord! They're going to bulldoze the place? lol! Just spray the plot with a fungicide or something. Idiots.

llamabox · 07-15-06, 16:23

Belmont, WV is the location of the bluefoot finds, Psilocybe caerulipes. Bethany is the name of another town in the area.

These are bieng tracked all along the Ohio river valley. 4 locations have been documented so far.

Guzman says they may not be Ps. caerulipes, and others have found Ps. cubensis in the state as well. So are we getting more and more fungi migrating north, or is there some type of odd cross breeding/evolution going on?

Have you found or worked with these yet Lazlo?

robman1 · 07-15-06, 16:25

I'm pretty sure that one of the MM hunting field guids showed shrooms even higher up than WV. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I remember some in New Jersey and possibly New York. NJ i know for a fact was on the list.

Lazlo · 07-15-06, 16:35

I do know of Liberty Caps being found in the NY and NJ area. Even more north as far as the provinces of New England as well. Never heard of any cubensis or possible sub-cubensis being found though. I guess I should get to work on the species soon.

Lazlo · 07-15-06, 17:03

It's good to know that others have found similar species in WV as well llamabox. Once I get a duplicate fruit, i'll send Workman a print sample to see what he thinks.

MrChen · 07-15-06, 17:31

So do these overwinter? Is the area prone to a very hard freeze for months at a time? I know the greenhouse affect will move cubenisis north eventually. There are areas here in my state that I've heard support them albeit down south but I'm sure they will move north especially if I can keep my ground warm this winter, lol.

Lazlo · 07-15-06, 17:50

Man, this area gets very cold and messy in the winter months. Lots of snow fall.

tbonus · 07-15-06, 18:08

Good luck fellas,I'm sure between all your efforts,you will achieve what we all set out to do, master this hobby by patience,endurance,and the will to find the perfect strain!!! WE ALL HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOU!!!!

Bobcat · 07-15-06, 21:55

Just curious... What usda growing zone were these found in?

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hzm-ne1.html

golly · 07-16-06, 07:28

Terra alta WV is in the green zone 5a.. winters are like southern michigan
but summers are cooler due to elevation ,,,which is why i find this thread

rather exciting....

llamabox · 07-16-06, 10:22

The "caerulipes" were bieng found in zone 5b. Say along a line with US interstate 70 and south to the Ohio river valley.

Bethany is in this area, and there have been locations documented in the Ohio River Islands National Wildlife Refuge.

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05-02-06, 00:34	#2 (permalink)
I_am_me Masked Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,560	You could always take a sample of the gill for cloning, thats bound to have spores and you could isolate away from any contams. Looks like cubensis to me but ya never know. __________________ Kindness is a cure.

05-02-06, 01:54	#5 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	A sample of tissue was taken from within the stem and applied to MEA for back up. I've rehydrated a cap and am now trying a print. We'll see. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-02-06, 12:14	#11 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	I thought the same thing Hippie but, he said they were growing off manure in several spots along a trail and in a field. He said it was chilly and was raining hard the first night they arrived there. The next day they hunted Morel's, finding these as well on a beautiful day. Anyone ever heard of or seen these being around WV? __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-02-06, 14:35	#12 (permalink)
TVCasualty Embrace Your Damage Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,376	Maybe you are about to have another good cold-temp strain of cubes available...best of luck in your efforts. It could still possibly be an intentional grow; maybe someone scattered spores or some spawn on the manure they found, or even that P. cubensis, like many non-natives, is adapting and moving into new climate zones. Like fire ants, which are slowly moving north as well. __________________ First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they punish you; then you win. -Gandhi

05-02-06, 00:36	#3 (permalink)
DocOc Mycophage Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 195	Nice work man!

05-02-06, 01:05	#4 (permalink)
cap dead to the core......... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,906	that is really cool. love the chubby look to em laz. thx for sharin the story with us and the cool pix im not going to try to ID them they look too much like cubies to me to start second guessing are you using agar to clean these up? keepin my fingers crossed for ya

05-02-06, 07:28	#7 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,227	Tera alta is one of the coldest regions in WV. ...very interesting find...hope u can propagate em somehow...

05-02-06, 08:07	#8 (permalink)
SharkieJones Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,150	That's interesting. Please keep us posted.

05-02-06, 08:33	#9 (permalink)
~dial8 Guest Posts: n/a	Nice find! Looks like cubes to me.

05-02-06, 10:42	#10 (permalink)
~pcsillypj Guest Posts: n/a	awsome find...

05-02-06, 17:37	#13 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	I somewhat know the owner of the property and am having doubts they were intentionally put there. I wish I had been able to go on the trip. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-02-06, 17:51	#14 (permalink)
the_chosen_one Darth Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,396	Man, I'm subscribing to this one!!!! Great work Laz!!! Can't wait to see where this takes us. __________________ "Luck favors the observant." - Workman

05-02-06, 18:54	#15 (permalink)
~Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 42,765	it's possible the horses were fed grain/straw that had cubie spores on it, it's possible that someone trespassed to do their grow. it's not that species are deliberately moving north into new climates, rather it's that climate itself is changing, enabling species to live where they could not in the past. but i'd still be very skeptical about cubies native to west virginia. it's not quite that warm yet.

05-02-06, 22:56	#16 (permalink)
Bobcat Happy and Thankful Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,738	If they were native to the WV, that would be ballz-to-the-wall awesome! The best cold hardy cub yet! __________________ Just pretend there is a deep or witty comment here and move along.

05-03-06, 06:23	#17 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	Our old buddy Karl Finn was a WV'ian. Maybe he'll chime in. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-03-06, 11:35	#18 (permalink)
TVCasualty Embrace Your Damage Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,376	Fire ants are deliberately moving north. Well, I use 'deliberately' kind of loosely here. They are hybridizing with native ants that are cold hardier. Either way, they are definitely moving into areas where they don't have to compete with other fire ant colonies, and that is to the north. Climate change meets them halfway, accelerating the process. Hybridization/evolution coupled with climate change would likely create evolutionary effects that manifest much quicker than would have been previously thought, mainly because the entire biosphere is in an unprecedented situation so science has no benchmark to measure by. __________________ First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they punish you; then you win. -Gandhi

05-17-06, 21:41	#19 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	__________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-17-06, 21:46	#20 (permalink)
cap dead to the core......... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,906	what's happnin?! __________________ R.I.P. Hippie3

05-17-06, 21:54	#21 (permalink)
Workman Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 653	Lazlo: If you fail and really want this strain I can easily do a spore extraction from a dried gill and get it back to you. I've done it successfully dozens of times, even with herbarium specimens and specimens crush to dust in the mail.

05-17-06, 22:05	#22 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	The tissue sample was apparently not a good one. I'm running away from bacteria on agar. Hopefully this transfer will work out. The amount of visible mushroom mycelium was very small. Just enough on top of the tissue to scrape off for tranfer. So the transfer was very hard with the unsteady hands I have. A small amount of the stem was refridgerated in case of failure. I'll send you a sample Workman if needed. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-17-06, 22:33	#23 (permalink)
Workman Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 653	Good luck!

05-17-06, 23:42	#24 (permalink)
SporeAddik1 Mycophage Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 119	I would do a gill transfer, thats probably your best bet, like i_am_me said, however it sucks if you can't get an actual clone. GOOD LUCK MAN!

05-18-06, 06:50	#25 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	I made a new plate last night with 2 samples. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-18-06, 07:30	#26 (permalink)
apokalypse Dr. Durgs Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,461	It'll be interesting to see what this turns out to be.. are you going to have someone analyze it under a scope? Best of luck!

05-18-06, 08:47	#27 (permalink)
BennyBlanco Mycotopiate Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 394	GL Lazo....

05-18-06, 09:00	#28 (permalink)
~dial8 Guest Posts: n/a	This is cool. Workman, if you get a sample will you please post your technique here?

05-18-06, 11:58	#30 (permalink)
~freakachino Guest Posts: n/a	Good Luck with the dishes Lazlo! Hope they grow well for you

05-19-06, 14:12	#32 (permalink)
the_chosen_one Darth Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,396	Wooohooo!!! Nice work Lazlo! __________________ "Luck favors the observant." - Workman

07-14-06, 23:37	#33 (permalink)
Bobcat Happy and Thankful Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,738	Updates? __________________ Just pretend there is a deep or witty comment here and move along.

07-15-06, 00:18	#34 (permalink)
bullfrog Mycophage Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 195	in john allen's site [i think] , there is writings of mushroom articles on a page . anyway it tells of a place in wva where people got in trouble when they got caught picking native ps cubies. i'll look for the article and post it. i hope you got the strain. good luck man. bllfrg

07-15-06, 00:33	#35 (permalink)
bullfrog Mycophage Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 195	Intelligencer & Wheeling News-Register Wed, 15 May 2002 ILLEGAL MUSHROOM PICKING LEADS TO ARRESTS by John Phillips Approximately 50 people have been arrested in connection with picking of psilocybin mushrooms near Castleman's Run Road in Brooke County near Bethany. Brooke County Sheriff Bernie Kazienko confirmed Tuesday the arrests have been made since May 1, and 30 more people face charges of picking the psilocybin mushroom. Kazienko explained that the psilocybin mushroom, when ingested, produces a mild hallucinogenic effect or "buzz." Psilocybin mushrooms are classified as a controlled substance under the West Virginia Controlled Substance Act. "This is an annual event during the mushroom season, which is May through September," Kazienko explained. "The last couple of years, we've been watching the area, and watching which mushrooms have been picked." He said that while the arrests have been made during the initial investigation, many suspects also were charged with possession of marijuana either on their person or in vehicles. Some individuals attempted to escape the area and were charged with fleeing from police. "We've actually come in contact with approximately 100 people, and other charges are pending on close to a total of 80 individuals," Kazienko said. "There are also juveniles involved." He said the property is owned by Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel Corp. and that the steel company has been cooperative. He also said he met with an environmentalist and an attorney from Wheeling-Pitt, which owns 160 acres in the area. "We took them to the scene," Kazienko said, adding that since the meeting, Wheeling-Pitt has contacted the West Virginia University Extension Office and the West Virginia Department of Natural Resources. "They wanted to see what they could do to eradicate the mushrooms," Kazienko said. He said there are other options, such as using a bulldozer to clear the area. "There will be costs for Wheeling-Pitt associated with that," Kazienko said. Wheeling-Pitt has since hired security personnel to patrol the area. Bethany College security also is involved in the patrolling. "We're going to have people indicted by the grand jury on June 3 in connection with the mushroom incidents," Kazienko said. "Some have been arrested for possession with intent to deliver the mushrooms and others for possession with intent to deliver marijuana." Brooke County Sheriff's Deputy Steve Seminsky also has been working on the investigation and confirmed more warrants will be issued. He said some plain clothes officers also have been on patrol. "We're learning this has been going on for several years," Seminsky said. "We've found people out there from the break of day to late evenings, just after dark." Seminsky said, explaining that none of those arrested had to be transported to the Brooke County Jail in Wellsburg, but were processed at the scene. "Our biggest concern is the safety of the individuals," Seminsky added. "We don't want them ODing on the mushroom or taking the wrong mushroom and dying." Charges were were logged against people from Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania. A person arrested for simple possession faces a misdemeanor charge and the penalties can include 90 days to six months in jail, a fine of up to $1,000, or both. Persons also may be placed on probation for six months. Persons found in possession of the mushrooms with intent to deliver or sell face a felony charge and that carries a prison term of one to five years, a fine of up to $15,000, or both. In addition, any property connected to the incident may be seized, pending forfeiture through the court system. Return to the Grape Vine Index Retrn to Main Index from mushroom john's site

07-15-06, 04:37	#36 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,692	This place consists of around 9000 acres. This story isn't affiliated with the area these came from. What's up Bullfrog? I'm not familiar with this area though. I'll check it out. Thanks. The culture is on ice for now, but ready to go. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

07-15-06, 08:47	#37 (permalink)
bullfrog Mycophage Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 195	howdy lazlo, how's it going? good i hope . all is well here. i have some new shiitake cultures , if ya' want one.

07-15-06, 09:28	#38 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,227	So they wanna bulldoze an entire habitat...how fucked up is that... Hey Laz...your sitting on the find of the 21st century man -u gotta grow em out... I'm just messin with ya, but i would love to see em go pop..