Have you ever REALLY burnt your fingers?["hot glass" work ]

[Glasshopper]

I doubt there are any other tubeheads (neon workers) here (if there are be sure to speak up) but I bet there are a few lampworkers here.

If you make stuff from glass (pipes, jewlery, scientific, figurines or whatever) please respond so we can talk shop. Or if you do "hot glass" work I would love to learn more about it.

I bet there are more than a few non scarred fingers typing on this board that would be quite curious about glass technique too.

Lets show 'em our stuff.

[synth]

i weld.. that can be pretty rough on the fingers =]

[Glasshopper]

I bet slag can be as rough as glass except for the fact that after the first few seconds, Hot glass and cold glass are the same color.

[synth]

yeah, you typically weld at highter temps than you do with glassworking
but glass has a higher specific heat so as far as damage from contact goes..
go figure.

they're both rough as hell

[Glasshopper]

Don't know about welding but the working temp for soft glass is about 1250 degrees and for hard glass it is about 1800-1900 degrees. I do not know what temp they do "hot glass" work at but I assume it is a bit higher because they work it from a completely molten state. And quartz glass is worked at about 2300 degrees (if I recall correctly) or so.

[dbzeroone]

I've done a lot of MIG welding and brazing and recently, casting.
I've blown lab glass and screwed around with making pipes, etc.
I love it when art and science come together!

[Glasshopper]

Originally Posted by dbzeroone

I love it when art and science come together!

That is what drew to neon.
It is the strongest alchemical (glass=earth (sand)+fire) mixture of art and science I have ever known!

Do you have a torch or did you do your "messing around" with a friends?

[synth]

casting, eh?
i've done a decent amount of MIG,
but i only own an oxy acetylene setup.
=/
what do you need to get started with casting?
how'd you make that pendant, dbzeroone?


hey, for glass blowing [or for working with neon stuff],
can my existing oxygen and acetylene tanks be used?
(what do glass torches use?)
that'd be really sweet if i could just go buy a glass torch
and swap out my welding torch if i wanna play with glass.
how much would something like that run me?
do you need a kiln?
can you make glass art [or pipes or bongs even] with
what i have [if glass torches even use oxy acetylene]?

[dbzeroone]

I've always used my own gear. I used to work in auto body, so I have an ultimate set of tools (Get the Fast Times reference there?)

Oxy/Acetlyene may be overkill for glass. I've used air/propane and it works just fine. Heavier glass may require hotter temps though. I'm no expert, just a tinkerer in that field

As far as casting goes, I use oxy/propane with a rosebud tip. The idea is that you have to heat a chunk of metal until it makes a puddle, then force it into your mold with centrifugal force.

The next pendant I make will be fully documented with pix, but if you want to do some more reading, look up "lost wax casting" and "broken arm casting machines".

In simplest terms, lost wax casting is taking an object, presumably made of wax, and encasing it in a plaster like material. When that hardens, you put it in a furnace at around 1600 degrees to completely burn away all the wax inside, leaving you with a stone mold. Pretty much anything that's not metal or stone will burn out. I've casted a mushroom, plastic stuff, a scorpion...

A broken arm casting machine is just a spring loaded beam. You wind it up and lock it in place. Then you take the torch to your metal and when it becomes molten, you release the lock mechanism and the whole thing spins like crazy, which causes the molten metal to shoot up into the mold by centrifugal force. Let it cool for an hour or so, then bust the mold apart with a hammer and where there was once wax (or a bug or a mushroom or whatever) there is now metal. It's kinda hard to wrap your head around without pix, but once you see it, you'll get it.

With a little experimenting, I'd bet you could even cast glass this way...hmmm...

[synth]

awesome.
i sort of get it, but yeah.. i need to do some digging for pics
like you said. lol... imagine the mold or something breaking
and molten metal spraying all over as the thing spins around...
-snaps all of the buttons on his welding jacket and tucks sleeves into gloves-

[Glasshopper]

For working neon (soft or lead glass) you use forced air and natural or artifical gas (and totaly different fires).
For pipes you are working with borosilicate (hard) glass, you might know it by the brand name of pyrex. For this you do use oxygen.

If you can weld you would have no problems learning quartz glass but you have to use oxy/hydrogen to melt it (they REALLY frown on a tank of H in a residential area and it is way more expensive to get into, but you can make the seriously good money if you get good at it) It is some amazing glass as far as the properties but it aint cheap.

If you want to give making small pipes a try, buy yourself a national 3a torch (about $65 Plus tips) of if you have a few more bux a national 8m (about $250) If you want to make larger pieces get a carslile cc (about $1200, but I got mine on sale for $850)

You can use acetylene but most people use propane or natural gas (if city pressure is high and steady enough). It is not as hot as acetylene but it is hot enough and a whole lot cheaper, you need to buy your torch tips based on the gas you will use as well as the size flame you want (to start get the 9 hole multi tip for the gas you will be using.

You reall do need a kiln but to start you can get away with just flame annealing (turn the oxy down, the gas way up and re-heat the whole piece) then shoveing the piece deep in a can filled with vermiculite to hold the heat in as long as possible and letting it cool more slowly. Expect more breakage (i.e. a more fragile piece) untill you get good or spend the $500 + for a kiln.

I assume you have flashback arrestors and check valves already but you will need to also buy safety glasses, you can get away with a cheap pair of dydidiums (filter out the UV that is created when you heat glass AND the sodium [yellow-orange] flare so you can see what you are doing) but if you work with a lot of colors or very large pieces, you will need a better (and much more expensive) pair.

You will need to buy basic hand tools like some carbon rods and paddles, a scoring knife, transite for your work surface, a fire extinguisher, a METAL trashcan, possibly some mashing pliers, and, just like working metal, molten glass can give off toxic fumes so some sort of vented fume hood is a very good idea.

Good luck and keep me posted on the progress. Don't hesitate to contact me with any questions!
GH

[Glasshopper]

Originally Posted by dbzeroone

With a little experimenting, I'd bet you could even cast glass this way...hmmm...

Molten glass is a lot more viscous than molten metal (its about like honey), you may be able to spin cast it but I bet you diamonds against donought holes that you would have MUCH better luck with a vacuum caster.

[Glasshopper]

centrifigal casting machine (here you go synth)

Vacuum casting rig for glass (this one is for you dbz, look for "stump sucker" at the bottom of the page)

[karmadiver]

I use to use a centrifugal manual caster for making of silver and pewter rings. Havent done it for almost 10 years now though. Now I want to dig mine out again and make some cool stuff.

[Glasshopper]

Ask dbz about the AWESOME shroom he cast. (hey dbz did you make a wax of it or cast it direct? Can you post a pic here or at least a link to the thread it was on?) Y'all got to see it, it is really cool! (I want one, when I get set here up I'll trade you one for a glass mushie art, deal?)

[synth]

if i understood correctly,
he cast it directly [but used a bit of wax at the end of the
stipe to make the loop].

[dbzeroone]

That casting machine is a beauty!

The white thing right of the center is the crucible. That's where you put your metal to be melted. To the right of that is where you would put your "ring", which is the stone mold you just took out of the furnace with the nifty tongs they provide you.

On the left of the center are weights, to balance out the wobble that happens when you set the thing spinning.

I really want to cast something now... here kitty kitty...

[dbzeroone]

Originally Posted by synth

if i understood correctly,
he cast it directly [but used a bit of wax at the end of the
stipe to make the loop].

Exactly. That's the beauty of the process. Almost nothing can stand up to the burn out furnace and mixed materials all work out the same! I once printed out some logos on shrinky dinks from my inkjet, cut them with an xacto, shrunk em down, then pieced them together with wax. Much easier than trying to carve them from wax freehand!

And the detail... almost microscopic fingerprints in soft wax will reproduce perfectly.

The shroom pendant can be seen in the May Mania (Mycotopia's May Mania Event: PRIZE DRAWINGS ANNOUNCED) raffle thread.

Glasshopper, I would love to do a trade... problem is, I don't have any little mushies to start with at the moment... all in due time

[synth]

Originally Posted by dbzeroone

I really want to cast something now... here kitty kitty...

lol!

[Glasshopper]

The Carlisle CC

This sucker can do a precision flame the size of a match head with a pin point or it can do a 4 inch diameter flame that is longer than 6 feet!! This baby can BURN (glass)!

[synth]

boy, that thing looks cool.
expensive though, but understandably so.
good tools cost good money.

[dbzeroone]

That torch is RAD! It's a work of art in itself!!

[Glasshopper]

I also have a hand torch its similar to the national 3a but it is an antique.
It was made by Bethleham and I believe they sold the design to national.
Other than the looks it is only different because the tip is not interchangable.

I also have this little national but I don't think they make them anymore.
I have not used it yet, I just bought because it was cheap and I thought it was cute.
It 's tip can be interchanged with any of the national 3a tips

[Glasshopper]

If you want to learn glassblowing here is a fanstatic start.

Here are the basic tools needed

[synth]

hell yea, thanks for the link.
with all the stuff i'd need to get, i don't know if i'll be able
to get into it or not... i think for now i'll just read that site
you sent me and look into things a bit more.. maybe i'll
check the local art leagues and see if there are any glassblowing
classes.. maybe i can take one this summer. that'd probably
be a good idea. then if i really like it and want to get into it,
i'll have more of an idea of what i want to buy and also more
motivation to buy it.

[Glasshopper]

Be sure to check out my site

[Glasshopper]

woops, thats not my site....
This is

[LethalTr1p]

not hobby related in any way, but...

I used to work at an arby's when i was in highschool. an old friend who was using meth to get a full 1 week study session in was so fucked up at work, he dropped the tongs for the cheese sticks into the frier. the dumbass responded to them before he could think and got a portion of his hand up to his wrist completely submerged in 335 degree grease before he yanked it out screaming. most of his skin fell straigt off onto the floor when we got back to the office to make a phone call.

for me, my finger burns usually come from exhaust manis and turbo housings. working on cars before they cool down can usually lend some suprises if your not as careful as you should be.

[Glasshopper]

My scientific glassblower friend and mentor for hard glass was showing a girl how to make something with glass. She got a glob of glass melted and he told her the next step was to mash it flat, so she pulls the melted glass out the fire and presses down on it WITH HER THUMB!!!!
She was cute but really dumb.

[Glasshopper]

I found a picture of something. I made a bunch of these, they were great sellers in Texas.