Attention Deficit Disorder, Mushrooms, Meditation and Marijuana

[infinity]

Let me say that all my life, I have blown my intelectual potential down the drain and slacked off alot in college. I should have had a masters degree by now and working on a PHD, but my problems persisted without any insight on whats going on. I was always suspected of having A.D.D. but never got tested. In 6th grade, I was given an I.Q. test by a psychologist after needing sessions to discuss my recent violent behavior. I was diagnosed with manic depression. Refusing to take the drugs the prescribed, I lived out the next 12 years like most people, or so I thought.


I had always displayed classical symptoms of A.D.D. but because I was suffering from it, I didnt have the cognitive ability to self moniter of course. My parents were constantly shitted on by people which distracted them from these observations as well. So life went on and the thought never surfaced again until years to come.

In August of 2005, I had my first experience with any psychedelic, which of course was mushrooms. It was a light trip, so things were more of a stimulating effect than dissociative like a really high dose. After the experience I was excited because I felt so clear and sharp at the time and for weeks afterwards. Then a couple weeks later, I finally grew my own and ate which was probably about 90 grams wet (I didn't have a scale and didn't think it mattered). Of course, it was strong. I had a near death experience. I really thought I died because of the way my nervous system was shutting off. It was a breakthrough of course and it felt like I turned on a part of my brain that was never on, and it stayed that way for months. I kept on eating mushrooms and found a new intrest in reading. Before then, I haven't read a book in atleast 4 or 5 years. It appeared as though this new lifestyle gave me an intelectual boost that allowed me sustained mental effort (basically oposite of A.D.D.) and a new set of eyes. All of my friends, which were mostly into heavy psychedelics including one of my best friends who is a moderator on the ayahuasca forum, believed that the mushrooms cured some sort of block that held me back from academic success.


Following what I feel now to be poor integration of my new self, I slowed down on eating mushrooms, smoked more pot and became lazy, unmotivated and distracted. Allthough I quit drinking and going out in favor of a more wholesome life, it obviously was not enough to get things cranking.

2 weeks ago I was given the chance to see some ancient Buddhist relics that rarely leave cambodia. Its a relic tour that is deticated to the new Buddha (Maitreya) which is supposed to come in a few thousand years. I was also blessed by a Buddhist monk at the time. I went again and got blessed again. Ever since I have been meditating, and have been digging deeper and deeper into my mind, and realizing how out of control it is. I catch myself engaging in ego self defense mechanisms as well as just either daydreaming and compulsivly thinking about the past or future, but never in the "NOW and HERE". My internal dialouge has been fighting it as well, I even hear myself thinking about how to stop thinking, which is kind of funny in a way.

After recent self monitering, I have found that meditation helps, but takes time. I meditate for about an hour in the morning and an hour at night. Marijuana is good for integrating new information, but must be moderated for me, because I have noticed that it makes my A.D.D. symptoms worse (which came as a suprise because I always felt better while smoking) and drains me of mental energy and motivation. Mushrooms seem like the way to actually cure this condition.

I posted all of this for a foundation of discussion more than venting or comforting. I am open to all sorts of criticsm, as long as its rational and not imature. I want to know you guys experience with all of this. I decided to use myself as an example because I know how taboo it is to discuss neurological disorders and I dont mind being broke open. I have read all sorts of ideas on how to deal with this, but I am still curious to my fellow mycotopians personal observations. So I ask this question, do you have ADD? Have mushrooms helped? Has a long period of marijuana abstenence helped? Who here meditates?

[Xerces]

First of all, Hi, and it's funny that this new post just came up, since I just got back from my gf's and we talked about me possibly having ADD. This comes back from when the time I also had a sort of near death experience (Death and Rebirth) -in march this year 2006- and it all started when I was researching about ADD because I thought I might have it, and started to get very introspective about things that I have always struggled against, and from there I started to get to the logical-scientifical-psychological-philosophical involment.. in everything.

This experience lasted several days, and the real world wasn't the same for some months.

I also had an academic declinement when I was young, and I'm sure I'm good for so much more than I currently am. I have trouble concentrating like when reading etc.

I smoke like 3 joints a day and I concur that it makes it worst at this degree of consumption. Not recommended.
On the other hand, mushrooms had help me before therapeuthically and introspectively, and to understand things at a very different level.

I have tried meditation, and find it usefull maybe at some degree of relaxation and stasis of the body, but I find it more exciting to swirl in the thrunderstrorm of my thoughts trying to find the source rather that thinking blank and let the answers come.

What about ADD and Indigo Childs?

[papalion]

If it weren't for martial arts/meditation ... I would be absolutely crippled by my internal dialog. Smoking cannabis feels good, but it clouds some of my rational activity.. especially language/communication... It does do amazing things for the free and creative thought.. and it can't be beat as a booster shot against the toils and trouble brought by Babylon. But I have to say.. the first time I saw the 'truth' and felt what life should be was when the psilocybes entered my life.

first trip was 3.5g ... and some harmaline. Not the wisest I'm sure.. but it was 8 or 9 hours of ego-breaking, self examination followed by a heaping helping of Joy. until then, it was just a word to me... but watching my hands melt at a reggae show.. it was perfect..

Though I was sweating buckets, unable to write, or communicate coherently.. I was in heaven.

[infinity]

When I first started meditating, things didnt seem all that out of the ordinary. Lately, I worked up from 10 minutes per session, to an hour per session/twice a day. This is where the chaos starts. Its written everywhere that it gets alot harder once you start getting somewhere with it. In this book that I am reading right now (which I am having a really hard time focusing on) by Pema Chodron caled "The places that scare you" she talks about how people think it actually gets alot worse when you meditate, but thats because you become more aware of it. Aleister Crowley wrote about the ego fighting back in "book 4".

I think pot is really good for this culture, which needs more of an intuitive boost, but certain people were born predisposed to this intuitive side and need to focus on rational logic. I would have never noticed how bad screws up my attention span unless I started meditating. Once I started meditating, I realized that pot does the opposite of what I want. It builds more of a tolerance to external reality, so my internal reality overlaps it with internal dialouge. Thoughts just rush in, but they are impulsive. Pot also makes me review the past and future, the ego loves to play the time games.

I have always considered myself rational, but thats because nobody ever notices how bad they are misfunctioning while they are misfunctioning. After trying adderall a few times, I noticed how much potential I really had, and I took advantage of my temperary rational thoughts and self examined myself during the experience.

Meditation really works, but the effects are subtle. I decided that I am going to take mushrooms once a week to boost my meditation. I am taking 1/2 a gram of aborts tonight. Not a big dose, but enough to assist in getting me into the "now". I will let you guys know happens....

[TVCasualty]

I think about this kind of thing a lot. Seems to me that everyone grapples with this at some level, though they may describe it differently. The word "should" is important. If you believe there are certain things that you "should" have done by a certain point in your life, or that you just "should" be doing this or that right now, then I'd predict some level of anxiety that might manifest as ADD symptoms or trouble focusing or just vague generalized frustration. Add that to a physically or chemically-caused difficulty in mental focus and I'd bet any of us would appear to be unfocused and anxious, maybe with a few panic attacks sprinkled on top.

So first, toss out the "shoulds." Like Yoda says, "Do, or do not, there is no try." And "try" is what we do about the things we feel we "should" be doing. Our parents and culture force-feed us our "shoulds" as soon as we can talk. Once we eliminate those, we also eliminate the stress-inducing tension caused by the opposing pulls of our genuine (and personal) needs and wants vs. a vague guilt-ridden sense of obligation toward some abstraction. Part of my own theory of focused, coherent thinking involves reducing stress, both internal and external.

Meditation tends to help because it reduces internal and external stress, and can even allow one to do the inner work needed to trim away those "shoulds." It can create new problems of it's own if seen as an end rather than a means, however. To just always clear one's mind, and then stay in that empty state for a long time (hours sometimes) is a very limited approach. Once the mind is clear and calm, then all kinds of things become possible- the empty mind is the starting point, not the goal. Ultimately a meditative mind state (characterized by Alpha or Theta brainwaves) can be achieved with one's eyes open, using internalized triggers built through repetitive practice. For example, if there is a specific sequence you always go through to meditate, then at the end of it you can program yourself a trigger that will nearly instantly shift your mind to that state if you use the trigger.

Specifically, an example would be a long relaxation sequence followed by one last, long, deep breath that you exhale completely and at the end of it your brain is in a meditative state. Do this often and every time, and you slowly build up a Pavlovian response to that breath. (You'd normally pay hundreds of dollars to hear this in a long-winded, flowery, and convoluted explanation on a comfy cushion during a weekend seminar in Malibu, so this is a hell of a bargain!) Now here comes the fun part- when you are going about your normal day, and need extra focus or calmness or higher performance you can repeat that long, deep breath and if sufficiently reinforced with practice it will trigger a meditative state in your mind. Seems suited to help with ADD if that breath can trigger a quiet, clear mind. Use that mind state to get your stuff done rather than just sitting there emitting greenhouse gasses with a serene look on yer face!

The point I'm after is that there are many interrelated variables that come together to create the kind of situation described in the original post, and no one thing is going to be the cause and no one thing is going to be the cure. Hell, maybe drugs are the easier answer. After all, Thomas Edison was an incredibly prolific and brilliant inventor (I'd argue he was really focused) and we all have his mind to thank for many modern conveniences, but his mind was amped to the gills on coke most of the time from his beloved Vin Mariani (not rails snorted off strippers, that was Ben Franklin). "Early to bed, early to wise..." my ass!

[Liquidbattle]

Ever knowing the inside of truth and understanding. The vastness of reality ties directly to life and infinite possibility.
To go ahead of the pack, to never let down the torch. Shinning ever-present light of love and life. It tears through our inner self to find our true nature. That nature surrounds us all. For the No-Self to Self creates and unites to make the One-Self. Delve into higher logic and thought. Question the ideals and beliefs to further understanding. We ride our happy little wave, but then there are those who seek to conquer their wave. Effortlessly they get washed ashore when they restfully accept and jump on their boards. The thought of the thought of the thoughtless has grasped us. It shows a light un-dimensional in every form. Learn to meta-process thought to its fullest non-advantaged perimeter. Manifest action on que instead of being driven by thought. The Status Quo will change rightfully at all times. There is no constant in reality based, thought driven, ego-obsession world. Find your true self. It is in the new times of Now we must reach out and help with interpersonal paths. Lift your souls to the highest reaches. Reach above the normal and outside your vessel.

"All our lauded technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal. Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him. Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts. It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. Only a life lived for others is worth living. The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. A human being is part of the whole called by us 'Universe', a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest...

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty...

We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive. It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."

Namaste'

[Mycolangelo]

My daughter is studying Psch and child development.
She's diagnosed me with Asbergers, that would explain a lot.
Anyway, socializing was non existant as a child and bad as a teen but in the military early (70s) I was introduced to weed, it wasn't an instant 180 but there was very noticable improvement.
A year + later I tried acid. Don't remember what dose but it wasn't too heavy.
There were no visuals just the feeling of oneness, that I was a mental connection with (well for lack of a better word) GOD. It had a positive affect but not permanent
I continued to self medicate with weed but had no hallucinogens.
In the early 80s I studied mushrooms a bit and found a huge stand of Ps. Cyan. I think they were put there for me by the Goddess. Most were given away but i did take a few trips 4-5, Very helpful experience.
In the last year I found Topia and now have the sacred mushies again.
They along with Medical Marijuana help me function much more normally.
I don't trip often, every 3 mos or so but smoke or vaporize once a day usually.

I feel very comfortable here at Topia

[StroFun]

Adhd has been crippling my life for as long as i remember. I threw away an almost free ride at college and i am on the fast track to losing my job because i can't focus enough to motivate my self to do the work. I have recently gone back on medication but it never really helped me that much. I recently did some research on alternative medicines and i found this site, which will hopefully help others as much as it helped me.

The fact that it took me a full 45 minutes to read this thread is testament enough that i cannot get a grip by myself, at least not at this point in life. I have trouble managing my finances and responsibilities, have no motivation, no organization. I do remember my first mushroom trip and the mental clarity i had after was so profound. I had never felt so clear and renewed. Lately my problems have been snowballing and my stress is getting out of hand to the point of panic attacks. I very much look forward to my next mushroom trip however long that may be.
check out this site:
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...homeopathy.htm

[infinity]

I have some ideas that may help.

1.Take melatonin (3mg) a 1/2 before you fall asleep and allow yourself about 8 hours. Sleep duration is important.
2.Take omega 3 fatty acid pills.
3.High protien/low carb diet
4.Exercise
5.Drink lots of water.
6.Begin meditating, I prefer "shinay meditation"

[Xerces]

Melatonin? Isn't that the substance we have in our bodies that gives us the color of our skin, hair and eyes?

[infinity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

Big difference

[StroFun]

ebay is pretty cheap
Ah thank you very much i'll be trying the melatonin, i am already on omega 3 and i ginko biloba (mostly for my memory which is equal to someone who has been using hard drugs for about 20 years and i've never used hard drugs)

[infinity]

Organic food makes a big difference too, I have been eating organic food for about 3 years now, and I can deffinitly say that it has caused some behavioral improvements.

These issues with adhd only came to the surface through recent meditation (which increased self monitering for myself) and taking adderall and noticing that I felt calm instead of sped up.

http://www.natural-stress-relief.com/

Give that a try, its very close to transcendental meditation which is known to help treat adhd. I paid for the download version and have been using it for about a week now. It deffinitly relieves stress and is more effective than any other meditation practice I have tried.

I bought some pycnogenol yesterday and started taking it this morning, it takes about a month to start kicking in, but its the only thing I have seen with scientific studies that points towards an alternative to amphetamine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

[StroFun]

My friend has been having some issues and he was wondering if i could find out if anyone here has noticed the same things.

My friend was on Ritalin 15gm 3 times a day from about kindergarten until a year after he graduated high school. Needless to say when he stopped taking his meds he gained 30 pounds and was losing the battle to ADHD in his personal and work life. He also noticed after he stopped taking the meds it was harder for him to be energized. He would get 8 hours of good sleep and feel like the world was ending when the alarm went off day after day. He has a very inactive lifestyle and a poor diet. He used to be more active but his eating habits were always poor.
He has since gone to the doctor and gotten back on Ritalin and he has noticed that it isn't helping as much as he thought it would and he is starting to notice that he is more wakeful and energetic while on the meds and is worried he is going to start abusing the meds purely for there performance enhancment.

He gets good solid sleep 8 hours every night and he has a very regular sleep cycle so why is he always tired? He is thinking the Ritalin energy may have become his reality and without it he feels run down so what can he do?

[Gamera]

My two cents: Keep meditating twice a day no matter what. You are going to be very tempted to let it slide. Just keep at it, particularly during those times when it seems like nothing is happening. When I started meditating I got hung up in the desire for it to essentially get me high. Thats not how it works. If all you get is love and light you are only seeing a tiny fraction of your mind.

As far as substances, just keep meditating and see how you feel. I have known people who meditated seriously for years smoking pot daily. I myself gave it up after about 6 months of daily meditation because I found it interfering with my meditaion and with my life generally. But ymmv.

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." -- Calvin Coolidge

[TVCasualty]

There may well be some physiological process that atrophied due to the Ritalin taking it's place, kind of like how our bodies reduce natural cortisone production when we get cortisone shots. Anyhow, this is pure speculation, but if it were me I'd get a comprehensive analysis of my blood, looking for nutritional, hormonal, or toxicological issues then go from there. He might be ultra-deficient in some vitamin, who knows?

Meditation is also a good recommendation, and not just for your friend. There is a balance that can be struck between mainstream and so-called "alternative" medicine, like the analytical power of modern labs and the time-tested tradition of meditation. All the meditation in the world won't help a vitamin deficiency (some disagree, but...) and perfect fitness doesn't mean we're sane or motivated. There is an imbalance somewhere inside your friend. I'd bet that with diligence it can be tracked down.

[StroFun]

Sweet deal my friend thanks you for the advice. He took the first step in rebuilding his motivation today lets see if he can keep it up!

[infinity]

Check this link out, its amazing. I am reading a book by him called how to make a good brian great. Its really informitive. Allthough most if it isn't new to me, he impressed me with his will for using spect imaging (which nobody does because of cost and training required) and putting the pieces together.

http://brainplace.com/bp/articles.php?articleID=10

I have also been taking Rhodiola Rosea and L-Tyrosine
the pycnogenol helped a little bit but over a period of time, like the meditation. The L-Tyrosine and Rhodiola Rosea have shown me improvements right after taking them. Works for me.

http://www.herbalgram.org/herbalgram...iew.asp?a=2333

Originally Posted by StroFun

My friend has been having some issues and he was wondering if i could find out if anyone here has noticed the same things.

My friend was on Ritalin 15gm 3 times a day from about kindergarten until a year after he graduated high school. Needless to say when he stopped taking his meds he gained 30 pounds and was losing the battle to ADHD in his personal and work life. He also noticed after he stopped taking the meds it was harder for him to be energized. He would get 8 hours of good sleep and feel like the world was ending when the alarm went off day after day. He has a very inactive lifestyle and a poor diet. He used to be more active but his eating habits were always poor.
He has since gone to the doctor and gotten back on Ritalin and he has noticed that it isn't helping as much as he thought it would and he is starting to notice that he is more wakeful and energetic while on the meds and is worried he is going to start abusing the meds purely for there performance enhancment.

He gets good solid sleep 8 hours every night and he has a very regular sleep cycle so why is he always tired? He is thinking the Ritalin energy may have become his reality and without it he feels run down so what can he do?

diet definately affects it.

try switching to wheat bread, peanut butter, tuna, fruits and veggies (maybe some chicken for lunch and dinner) and about a gallon of water a day
and see how you feel. Ive found the more protein i add to my diet, the better and easier it is to wake/more energy, not so lethargic

you could also flush your body, do a cleanse to get the toxins out (im sure years of building up that ritalin in your body hasn't helped) but that can be ruff to accomplish.. And as for the "alarm clock thing, why can't i just sleep forever"- i thought everybody got that : D meditation, and some mental
discipline can help that
but thats not easy either

[StroFun]

Funny you should mention that because i have been doing just that for about a month. Taking a multi vitamin along with Ginko Biloba Co Q-10 omega 3 fish oil and glucosamine chondroitin MSM supps along with a more balanced diet(focusing on whole wheats, grains, fruits, veggies, and plenty of animal flesh) with almost no sweets (harder than i thought) no more soda and more fluids for sure, lots of green, black, oolong tea(thanks for the idea Waylit) everyday.
I am gearing up to start an exersice regimen(with creatine, whey protein supps) for mostly cardio for the first month then lifting using core workouts like squat, bench, power cleans, and dead lifts for another month with cardio thrown in on an off day. I will stick to this regimen until i plateau and go from there. At least thats the plan and i have been doing alright with it so far. I am also back on Ritalin but that isn't helping as much as i remember it helping me before so still lots of work ahead.

Thanks for the suggestions. I tried the Melatonin and i didn't notice an increase in quality sleep but my problem was more waking up than falling asleep anyways. Apparently i slept through a series of gunshots in the backyard so i think i'm doing alright in the sleep department ( 8 hours a night give or take 30 min.)

[spacecowboy]

Thanks for starting this thread infinity, kinda thought I was the only one...not sure if I want to go into the details of my undeniable dilemma…but I got this thread marked now…

My brother is even worse than me with the ADD

[infinity]

Originally Posted by spacecowboy

Thanks for starting this thread infinity, kinda thought I was the only one...not sure if I want to go into the details of my undeniable dilemma…but I got this thread marked now…

My brother is even worse than me with the ADD

Hey no problem, I know how taboo society is about mental disorders, so I decided to use myself as an example since I don't really mind telling people that my central nervous system is not functioning right. Mushrooms have fixed most of my major problems with it, but some problems can't be fixed without working you brain to the limits of your sanity.

[spacecowboy]

I got the alcohol problem too..and I think that it started as a result of the fact I have the ADD... it happened real quick just glad I realized it....in Canada I have heard reports of using mushrooms for the alcohol problem with great success...will have to try and find that article/link

GUN SHOTS!!!?? yikes!!

you guys are making me laugh by saying "THE add"
i was diagnosed with it back in middle school and always gave my ritalin away to older kids who would think i was cool because i was giving them drugs : / i never liked taking it.
I was later diagnosed with ADHD by my friends, in high school
but i blame that on the cid
And yeah i do know that empowering feeling you get after you trip
but for me, its more like that of a warriors disposition, i feel like i could make decisions quickly, great focus, but i usually feel void of emotion (which is nice) but it doesnt last for months for me.. maybe a few days at best..
ADD- I've basically learned to cope with it, repeated daily tasks help to focus my mind, and I try to describe my self as "interested in the world", instead of "unable to focus on one thing at a time" : D
I wish i could be blessed by a buhhdists monk, although im sure it would leave me feeling hollow and awkward, but id love to meet some real hardcore meditaters!!

kutos on setting up that regime, it sounds really progressive
which is what i try to aim for. The less stagnent i feel, the better my mental health, the more pressure i can fell i can handle without breaking down.

I like the conflict tho.. of how easy it is to regress back to smoking out all the time and getting lazy, and then reshaping your life.. of fighting yourself, then giving in, then changing again. Realizing you've learned a lesson before, and you know the steps to correction a problem. There are little pitfalls and quirks to both sides.. i guess the joy is in actually being able to decide to fuck up or fix your life..

How much L-tryosine do you think you get from milk and steak and eggs
infinity?

I always drink milk out of the carton, and i always find myself hitting it up alot, when its in the fridge, and it does make me feel pretty good.
I always assumed i just liked it alot

[infinity]

Im not sure about L-Tyrosine concentrations. I know one thing for sure, allthough Caffiene isn't really good for you in high doses, lately I have been able to use it with different results thanks to the L-Tyrosine. I am able to stay engaged in a book for hours at a time without looking at the clock. Learning new things also helps. I like to play the drums, but apparently, classical music is known for improving concentration and math skills, while rap and heavy metal deteriorate math skills and focus.

[Xerces]

Originally Posted by infinity

Im not sure about L-Tyrosine concentrations. I know one thing for sure, allthough Caffiene isn't really good for you in high doses, lately I have been able to use it with different results thanks to the L-Tyrosine. I am able to stay engaged in a book for hours at a time without looking at the clock. Learning new things also helps. I like to play the drums, but apparently, classical music is known for improving concentration and math skills, while rap and heavy metal deteriorate math skills and focus.

are you serious?

what about psytrance :P

hmm i study classical music on guitar, and i still suck at algebra
; D