input please

[dr.gonzo]

I have been thinking about the population in the world. If every one had 3 kids and those 3 kids had 3 kids. I dont know it seems like god will come out with some disease (bird flu) all kinds to list to stop the population. I dont know what the earth's capicity for people is but it seems like when were 30% full there is no going back. look what we have done so far to this rock. anymore will help?

[Rasa]

Hey Dr. G,
We talk about this in one of my classes recently, I got this from one of my text books...many studies say that If people in the developing world consumed as much as those living in the richest countries, the human race would need another two planet Earths to cope, humans are already pushing the planet beyond its capacity, and even at today's levels of economic activity, the human race is operating 30 percent above what the Earth can provide without suffering serious damage. The results of us over-stretching the Earth's resources were deforestation, declining fish and animal stocks ,climate change, etc. Wildlife populations in the world's forests, freshwater and marine environments have declined by one third over the last 30 years!!!
Thats Crazy if you ask me bro! I think everything will be different soon , Not sure how, but imho its inevitable Peace Rasa

[the jesus]

"We are a virus... with shoes." -Bill Hicks

[Defiance]

Population is just a symptom of a larger problem - namely our global culture. With industrial farming, fast transport, and global shipping there is a glut of food in the world. Any naturalist, let alone student, knows what happens to populations when available resources skyrocket.

[dr.gonzo]

so in other words, if you truley love your kids, you will quite having any. I sometimes feel we have the cure for cancer and aids but dont apply it, cruel huh?

buy the way I had this dream last night. can anyone interpet this? it was the craziest one yet. I have drempt in color before but lazers? rockets? and the news said nothing and new battires went dead within seconds on my police scanner. mabey the message is I should not fly shotguns becuase the army has lazers. off topic

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by dr.gonzo

so in other words, if you truley love your kids, you will quite having any. I sometimes feel we have the cure for cancer and aids but dont apply it, cruel huh?

I think there are probably better ways than a policy of Zero Population Growth. Daniel Quinn probably has some of the answers you're looking for, and more than a few to questions you haven't thought to ask yet.

[dr.gonzo]

I was more worried about plagues and pollution rathar than food but global transport of food would be interesting, when we run out of fule to burn on the cargo ships would the u.s. have enough to last in our own country? bad winters for the mid-west. I think all the signs are there that we over populated. mabey the tribes that sacrificed were right in a way. the whole world...its a world wide suicide!

[kiddo]

Isen`t it the bigger the population the bigger chance of a virus or desease being introduced?

[dr.gonzo]

yep. I dont know about the zero population growth, I think even if you wiped out everyone except 3200-3500 people on earth there still is enough damage already to wipe out other spices of life like polar bears

[aumbrellaforainydays]

also consider that more people there is, rhe more crowding, more cars in the city, more apartments, less land, more pollution, its the standard unsustainanble economist model of limitless growth. of course there is a limit. oil is not limitless. population is not limitless. not only that but we are creating diseases originating from the very things we've created, diabetes and anorexia to name a couple. what should happen is a massive flu epidemic. just cant wait for a mutation to attach to humans and kill a quarter of the population... no wait, i should think that way. we should keep driving, eating, and flushing away the gifts of nature until we are truly left with nothing.

[the jesus]

There will be some sort of self instited population control implemented at some point. China already has limits on family size, and while it seems unconscionable in the rest of the world today, I think public opinion on the subject will change pretty quick when there truly isn't enough food, energy and housing to go around. At some point it will effect enough people directly to sway public opinion and survival instincts will slowly seep into the mass psyche.

Self instituded population control, the most heated issue in the 2075 presidential election.

[weed4all]

i agree with you dr.g, if you really do love your kids you wont have any more, but i think some people are to blind to see that....sad. either way, if humans don't do something about the growth, mother earth will (mabey all the natural disasters we've been having). we're already depleting the ozone, and once thats gone the earths gonna change drastically and humans might not even be able to survive.

[Rasa]

Some more info on that ( gon be alot of #'s in here) lol

Overpopulation is a ratio of two components: Population and resource. As to the human population of the Earth, the available figures are: 1 billion in 1804, 1.6 billion in 1900, 2 billion in 1927, 3 billion in 1959, 3.5 billion in 1970, 4 billion in 1974, 5 billion in 1986, 6 billion 1999, 6.5 billion in 2006. The estimates for 2050 vary between 9.1 billion and 9.2 billion, almost all of the growth occurring in the developing world. Only slightly over 1.2 billion people are expected to live in countries that are currently designated as developed. When a population cannot be maintained without rapidly depleting its non-renewable resources and without degrading the capacity of the environment to support it, the area is overpopulated. Africa, where currently the population grows at a phenomenal rate, is overpopulated, because the production of necessities, such as food, does not keep pace with the grooving number of people. Its soils and forests are being depleted so rapidly that, in the future, their carrying capacity for humans will be much lower than it is now. When the same criterion is used, even the United States had to be considered overpopulated: Namely, the consequences of American fertility, combined with substantial immigration, have to be seen on the background of the depletion of American soils and water resources by over-consumption.
Our wasteful generation has to be constantly reminded that our planet has limits to its capacity to support life. We are faced with:
<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Overwhelmed water treatment systems; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Water sources depletion; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Shortage of fresh water both for domestic purposes and for agriculture; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Reduced biodiversity; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Falling production of grain; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Loss of topsoil through erosion; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Massive loss of forest cover; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Collapsing ocean fisheries. <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Decreasing income in the fastest growing regions in the world; <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->Growing unemployment in much of the developing world; and<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42></TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->A growing number of environmental refugees. <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE><!--mstheme-->
All these are symptoms of a serious global problem which is made much worse by the yearly addition of 80 million new people to the overall population. The sheer number of people on earth is already past what Paul Ehrlich has called the 'carrying capacity' of the planet. A vast numbers of people are becoming malnourished, marginalized, and disaffected , and there is an increased ecological destruction.

The present increases in human numbers and in per capita consumption has a considerable impact on the environment, disrupting ecosystems and depleting resources - just about every step in the direction of reducing the effects of affluence and technology is negated by population growth. The more people are on earth, the more resources are needed to maintain them, and the greater is the amount of the waste-products escaping into the atmosphere. There is probably no practical way to achieve an improvement in this respect without population control. For example, as to the emission of greenhouse gases, every person who lives makes a contribution to the CO<SUB>2</SUB> in the atmosphere by burning wood, coal, or oil. ... Small increases per person can have an enormous effect in China and India with huge populations there. The report of the Club of Rome stated already in 1972 that 'with the existing trend in population, food production, industrialization, resource use, and population continuing unchanged, limits to growth would be reached within a century'.
To achieve zero population growth in the twenty-first century even in the most developed countries, birthrates would have to fall well below replacement levels. The reason for the population momentum is the relative youth of the growing population.
The current situation is well demonstrated on the population of the Philippines, the islands of the archipelago being now one of the most densely populated areas in the world with 173 persons per square kilometre. By 1960 the population of the Philippines was 6 million people. By 1949 it had jumped to 19.3 million; 1970 saw the population pass the 38.5 million mark, and in 1989 it was estimated to be 63.8 million. It was 70 million in 1991, and since 50% of the people are under the age of 18, the figure will most probably shoot past 100 million shortly after the year 2010. Meanwhile, the mangrove swamps are being destroyed, and 80% of the coral reefs, which are among the richest ecosystems on the planet, have been severely damaged. A third of the soil is severely damaged, two thirds are partly damaged, and the rain forest that once covered over 90% of the area will, it seems, soon be totally gone - only 10% survives now. In 1988, a Catholic bishop in the Philippines presented a document called What is Happening in Our Beautiful Land? to the national meeting of all the bishops of the Philippines. They approved it, but only after taking out the statement on population, which was vital. This diminished the importance of the document and showed the reluctance of the Catholic Church to deal with the population problem, even though overpopulation is one of the most disastrous realities facing the Philippines and the planet. Population pressures will not go away with our refusal to face them.

Unless we solve the problem of overpopulation, all future generations will be impoverished. Where are the children and future generations going to grow food that they will need for their expanding numbers? For the sake of future generations, we need to 'lower population, alter consumption levels, and promote more resource-efficient technologies'. We already know much of what is needed in order to solve the problem of overpopulation, but we are limiting ourselves to exhortations and promotion of general ideas. At the minimum, exchange of ideas on population control, family planning, and obstacles to it should be encouraged across cultural, religious and political boundaries. The present policy of fertility control, promoted by all the leadership in around the world, may not be really pro-life when looked at from a wider angle. And they wonder why we question priorities! Ras
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[dr.gonzo]

I like the way bill hicks put it. "I just keep poppin these babys out and dont even know the fathers name, what should I call this one...Oh I know I'll call you pizza boy delivery Jr. all I remember is your daddy shooting his caffine ridden seman all over the place...oop here comes another plop"...its funny cause its true. even if you did the population control deal there would still be too many people. wouldnt it take like 3 decades to have an impact?

[Rasa]

Yeah bro, at least! Thats why I always say, If we want to start changing things, we need to do something, like................. 20 years ago! (or more)

[dr.gonzo]

9 billion by 2050? I bet we are at that number by 2030.

[spacecake]

Originally Posted by dr.gonzo

buy the way I had this dream last night. can anyone interpet this? it was the craziest one yet. I have drempt in color before but lazers? rockets? and the news said nothing and new battires went dead within seconds on my police scanner. mabey the message is I should not fly shotguns becuase the army has lazers. off topic

The rocket sound familliair..dreamed aboud that last week...
But I don't remember the rest of the dream..to crazy !

[Nabby]

Never put it past mother nature to set things right. We do everything we can do escape it, but we're part of global plan, and if humanity continues to hurt it, it will make humanity it's bitch.

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this...

[dr.gonzo]

one of my fav songs

[Hippie3]

What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals!
- Shakespeare's Hamlet.

we hippies never lost our faith in mankind,
why did you ?

What a piece of work is man
How noble in reason
How infinite in faculties
In form and moving
How express and admirable
In action how like an angel
In apprehension how like a god
The beauty of the world
The paragon of animals

I have of late
But wherefore I know not
Lost all my mirth
This goodly frame
The earth
Seems to me a sterile promontory
This most excellent canopy
The air-- look you!
This brave o'erhanging firmament
This majestical roof
Fretted with golden fire
Why it appears no other thing to me
Than a foul and pestilent congregation
Of vapors

What a piece of work is man
How noble in reason

How dare they try to end this beauty?
How dare they try to end this beauty?

Walking in space
We find the purpose of peace
The beauty of life
You can no longer hide

Our eyes are open
Our eyes are open
Our eyes are open
Our eyes are open
Wide wide wide

-HAIR

[dr.gonzo]

trees only grow so fast. I dont think shakespeare had 6.5 billion people on the planet and a huge threat to the depleation of natural resources. shakespeare would not think us nobel today.

[dr.gonzo]

I posted this on yahoo answers and some people are talking about living under the water. I dont think they fully understand sewer systems. It would take more power to pump sewage out and above water. and earthquakes. living on other planets? way way past 2050. another guy said that the population will peak and drop off in mid century. now if the number of kids surpasses the parents I dont see that happining either. roughly 3 kids to 2 parents

[Rasa]

yeah, every civilization falls, man. when and for what reason is the question. like you said, 3 kids to 2 parents, say we do use up every resource we have and we cant produce the food we need to feed everyone? you know, that has been a reason for many civilizations falling. I still think the ball's in our court, just barely. I dunno.

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

we hippies never lost our faith in mankind,
why did you ?

It's not faith in mankind Hip, I've lost faith in our culture. Do you honestly see a capacity for change? I believe that the only way we'll see the errors of our ways is by total systematic collapse.

[Rasa]

sadly , yeah. We kinda have to start from where the world is, as it is, not really as we would like it to be. I think I see the capacity for change , its just enough have to stand up , wake up, afford a minutes time to figure how to bring about a change, and get on it. If we dont do that soon.......................

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by Rasa

sadly , yeah. We kinda have to start from where the world is, as it is, not really as we would like it to be. I think I see the capacity for change , its just enough have to stand up , wake up, afford a minutes time to figure how to bring about a change, and get on it. If we dont do that soon.......................

The problem quickly becomes in a country of roughly 300 million and growing, how many people standing up is "enough"?

Aside from that, after enough have stood up what do they do? How do they convince the others to go along with them? In this country, at the present time, the fact that global warming is caused by humans is subject to debate. Nowhere else in the world is that true.

When you look at the other realities we have to face about population and pollution to keep this world healthy, you can imagine how much hand-wringing and indecision there will be about those subjects as well.

I believe that we have already become too large and numerous to act efficiently. A population crash is coming - the only thing up in the air is the cause.

[Rasa]

I definitely feel you man, thats the crappy thing about being a realist, lol.

[dr.gonzo]

I would also like to know what they do with all of that food in wal-mart that no one buys and goes past the exparation date. who buys all this cheese. do we really need a store that big? oh you just want some milk? walk 3 football fields all the way in the back. that is just the depth how wide? I think ours is about 9 football fields wide. I will pace it off someday.

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by dr.gonzo

I would also like to know what they do with all of that food in wal-mart that no one buys and goes past the exparation date. who buys all this cheese. do we really need a store that big? oh you just want some milk? walk 3 football fields all the way in the back. that is just the depth how wide? I think ours is about 9 football fields wide. I will pace it off someday.

The produce, at least, is thrown out in a large, unlocked, covered dumpster in the backs of the stores. Most of it is still edible when it's discarded. I have had occasion to know.

[Hippie3]

it has to be destroyed or the store has to pay taxes on it.
so blame the State.

[dr.gonzo]

I think it would be cool if someone could design a huge solar powerd fan driven co2 filter. they have them for submarines and use lithium hydroxide to make a chem reaction to remove co2.

[Beano]

If the world was flat we wouldn't have population problems.. just problems with space.