The eco-village ( I now have a little hope for the future!)

[lucysmiling]

oh i just heard and read that certain people intake psychedelics in nature to help them. some are used every single day for months. I would fix the cave a little up, so its comfy. I dont know why people live in houses, i think they suck! there boring and not creative, and most are designed all the same. I guess its all opinion though. I use to take mushrooms every 3 days and they helped me climb my first coconut tree, and with my skinny arms somthing i would have never been able to do. Also they help in your hunting abilities. Certain medicines cant be abused. Some you can never have enough, i believe.

artificial lights suck too, they ruin the night! and i want to get away from all that. i think it should be illegal, cause they ruin the sky

[mydarling]

artificial lights should be illegal? i dunno about that one....

[cap]

there was a debate on charlie rose last night discerning these issues on the global scale from whats bein mentioned on page 1 and into other realms such as food shortage etc..it all is connnected...basically...if china and india etc dont step up soon the erath will shut off and die sooner then later.

hope they do the right thing

[Sidestreet Getaway]

The Good Life by Helen and Scott Nearing. Two people who got sick of life in New York City, bought a dilapidated farm in Maine and transformed it, grew all of their own food, built a stone and concrete house, and lived almost independent of consumerism. They still bought clothes, concrete, and the few foods they didn't grow. For many years, they used no electricity, although they eventually got a refrigerator and some electric lights.

Yes, they lived in the "stone age." The cool part, though, was a degree of insulation from society's ills and the need to make someone else money to pay the bills. They claim to have worked only four hours a day on "bread labor." The rest of their time was spent in leisure, travel, and their professions (he was a social scientist and she was a musician).

Due to their extremely healthful lifestyle, they report never having fallen seriously ill, and they each lived to about 100 years old.

[cap]

thats not tosay 1st world established and enabled regions such as usa and russia uk etc shouldnt smarten up either, we're slackasses, but w emust be the rolemodels here for thed eveloping nations imho. and they need to do something soon cuz the burning of fossil suels in china and such is killin the earth with the quickness.

as far as 2rd world living. either 1st world needs to back the fuck off n let em go tribal n live off the land again, and, if not (possible?) then the 1st world must 1st stablize themselves then be productive enough on their own to give support to such regions.

just sucks for those livin in the dirt floor tin(at best) huts eatin a cup of moldy food a day, but it is what it is till politicians are brainwashed by a revolution.

wheres bear when u need him?



we need a catalyst and a revoltion ala 1960s. sorry hip, but its the only solution. think about it

[cap]

Originally Posted by Sidestreet Getaway

The Good Life by Helen and Scott Nearing. Two people who got sick of life in New York City, bought a dilapidated farm in Maine and transformed it, grew all of their own food, built a stone and concrete house, and lived almost independent of consumerism. They still bought clothes, concrete, and the few foods they didn't grow. For many years, they used no electricity, although they eventually got a refrigerator and some electric lights.
Yes, they lived in the "stone age." The cool part, though, was a degree of insulation from society's ills and the need to make someone else money to pay the bills. They claim to have worked only four hours a day on "bread labor." The rest of their time was spent in leisure, travel, and their professions (he was a social scientist and she was a musician).
Due to their extremely healthful lifestyle, they report never having fallen seriously ill, and they each lived to about 100 years old.

thats great man but thats 2 people. not 2 billion.
like i just said in my continuation post above, the world leaders mustbe changed and we need a revolution all electricity could be kept intact etc it just needs to be produced smarter, en masse. its greed man. egos and greed and blindness.
we need a dumptruck of fluff crystal cropsprayed over 'DC

[Hippie3]

i think it should be illegal, cause they ruin the sky

and there's my problem peeking out right there-
the implicit threat of coercion and force
when persuasion fails.

the reason i get 'bent out of shape'
is i've seen far too many disasters
caused by people who think they know
how to 'save the planet'.

i don't trust movements,
i don't trust gurus and
i don't trust young gullible
well-intentioned but inexperienced people
telling me how to live.
and i sure don't trust my future
to people who think that
dosing is the answer to every problem.

if your house is boring and drab
that's your own damn fault-
change it.
don't try to force the entire world to change.
if you have no connections to your neighbors,
make some. walk over and say hi
instead of blaming 'dehumanizing city life'.

[Oblivion]

Originally Posted by lucysmiling

artificial lights suck too, they ruin the night! and i want to get away from all that. i think it should be illegal, cause they ruin the sky

Could you imagine the havoc if cities didnt have street lights? Move out of the city if you dont like them.

[prism1234]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

and there's my problem peeking out right there-
the implicit threat of coercion and force
when persuasion fails.
the reason i get 'bent out of shape'
is i've seen far too many disasters
caused by people who think they know
how to 'save the planet'.
i don't trust movements,
i don't trust gurus and
i don't trust young gullible well-intentioned
but inexperienced people telling me
how to live.
and i sure don't trust my future
to people who think that
dosing is the answer to every problem.
if your house is boring and drab
that's your own damn fault- change it.
don't force the entire world to change.
if you have no connections to your neighbors,
make some. walk over and say hi
instead of blaming 'dehumanizing city life'.

That is the beauty of the movement, it is totally volentary. Noone is forcing anyone to live this way. The major setback is getting people to realize that this idea is not based in religion or Gov't. It is a grassroots movement to live more efficiently. Healthy, clean and sustainable...

[Hippie3]

it's only voluntary until there are enough 'believers' to ram it down everyone else's throat by law.
it'll go just like the no-smoking movement,
at first it was voluntary,
and they were accomodated with no-smoking sections.
but that wasn't good enough,
policies were put in place restricting smokers,
go outdoors, get off the property.
now entire cities and states are banning smoking
even in the outdoors,
massive taxes are levied just on smokers
who are forced to pay for measures used against them.
etc.
just one example, maybe not the best but it's one that
everyone can plainly see.

the legal basis is air pollution,
and on that basis
even more restrictive laws are on the horizon,
or already in place.
in my city the government burns massive amounts of
wood debris and trash-
but forbids anyone else from burning a little brush.
in california they hook up your car and sniff the exhaust
and it doesn't matter if you're raising a family on minimum wage,
if your old car does not pass
then you can just walk, fucker.
mandatory car insurance furthers weeds out the poor,
soon it'll be mandatory health insurance
which will give them more leverage over us,
just as helmet laws for bikers were forced by insurance companies,
once we're all insured by government-mandate
they'll have a financial interest in what we eat,
how much of it, how much we exercise, etc.
control for our own damn good,
the maternal society.
but here's the thing-
i'm smart enough to make my own decisions.
and i'm tough enough to live with the consequences.

i don't need new building & housing codes
that force me out of my old home
into a mud hut because some control freaks
think they know better what i need than i do.
and ultimately that IS where this 'movement' is heading-
only 'approved' houses will be allowed in the new eco-villages,
the rich yuppies will gobble up the new status symbols
and pass ordinances to 'beautify' the neighborhoods
and then they'll spread out, forcing their 'vision' on the rest of us.
be clean.

[prism1234]

Hip, I am gonna have to disagree with you here. I think that small changes over long periods of time tend to change things all together. Evolution is a great example of this and that is what I think this movement is, evolution from a destructive, deadly way of living, to a cleaner, sustainable way. Small steps to the top of heaven so to speak. I don't think force is the way to go here. Volunteers tend to be more accountable for their actions in these types of social situations. So not to sound like an asshole, but IMO, if you don't want in the village, then I don't want you in it either. No hard feelings and take care.

We can do it! The Human species is capable of adaptation and I think we are doing it! Keep up the good work and fight the good fight! Our great grand children will thank us for it!!

[Hippie3]

evolution has nothing to do with this,
no more than say quantum mechanics does.
humanity is not evolving into a new species any time soon,
but society does change.
however to understand societal change requires
a full understanding of human nature
and the best source of data is human history.
history is a case study of what humans do,
and if history is any guide
then this movement is a fizzle.
why ?
because there's nothing new here,
people have been talking about
'getting back to nature'
since the genesis account of the fall from eden
was written.
and each generation since then has had people like y'all,
i can dig up pamphlets from the 1800s that preach organic ,
and what is an eco-village but an amish community ?
they do the same,
turning their backs on the modern world,
farming and living the 'old way'.
and guess what ?
they are not exactly recruiting members by the millions.
this movement too will find a splinter faction,
but not in enough numbers to matter,
and not in enough time to change the equation.
y'all simply do not have enough time for 'evolution'
to save the planet.
this shit is coming to a full boil in your own lifetimes,
and there is no stopping that.
the birth rate is higher than your conversion rate,
simple arithmetic means you're losing ground
every second of every day.

[prism1234]

You may be right... All hope may be lost... But I choose to believe that we can make a difference and a better future for my children and their children's children. So I choose to try and make a difference and I think there are others who have not yet given up on the human spirit.

[Hippie3]

i believe in hope,
but i am just a bit more pragmatic.
fisrt i start from a less-dramatic assessment of current reality
so i don't have as far to go
then i focus on what can actually be done
instead of wishful thinking.
re-building the world 'green' just isn't practical
given the time-scale.
grand fix-it-all schemes cannot be imposed upon the people.
we will have to manage with what we have.
but that does not automatically equate with failure.
and there is my hope.
i have kept my faith in the human solution,
and i 'believe' we already have what it takes,
and we will not just survive but thrive and prosper.
we'll adapt to a changing world
instead of trying to change the world itself.
that's realistic, that we can do.

[prism1234]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i believe in hope,
but i am just a bit more pragmatic.
fisrt i start from a less-dramatic assessment of current reality
so i don't have as far to go
then i focus on what can actually be done..

I think that the sensible changes that can be made now, will be made by those who are sensible (ie. Recycling, CFL's and re-using grocery bags). Then, baby steps to a better way.

Thats all I am saying, the ecovillage is an experiment in the future of mankind. A way to see how our species may live hundreds of years from now.

[Hippie3]

that reminds me of the stuff they used to tell us when we were kids-
they'd show drawings of folks living on the moon, mars-
hopping around in personal rockets,
running to the store with a jet-pack on their back, etc.

they had no idea what life would be like in 40 years,
and i daresay trying to project the future several centuries
is equally futile.

[prism1234]

The difference is that there are no colonies on the moon, but there are eco-villages all over the world. Doing what they do in real time.

[chrisandstepheny]

Now hippie I totally agree. Laws should be enacted to protect us from harmful criminals and nothing else. The whole ideal of America is that it is a place where you can do whatever you want without prosecution. I don't agree with any laws for the protection from myself.
On a second note, I don't mean to offend or upset anyone. If you want to hear what I have to say O.K. if you don't O.K.
I personally love planting and love being outside and would love to be able to have my own place in it. I enjoyed living with my grandparents in the country half my child hood and was able to take nature walks in my own back yard. I'd like to have that again and offer it to my kids and teach my kids about nature in nature. That's how I learned. If society is still going how it is now when my kids grow up and they decide to move to the city or whatever good for them they're their own person. But in the end I am going to do what is best for me and my family and I could really care less about anybody else.

It's not that I don't care I'm just following the golden rule.

[Hippie3]

there are eco-villages all over the world. Doing what they do in real time.

has that slowed global warming, saved any polar bears,
reduced demand for fuel, lowered pollution ?
no.
no.
no.
no.

[prism1234]

True, but their impact on the future has the possibility to make all those things happen.

[Hippie3]

here's another quibble-
i consider this to be a form of 'busy work',
a useless gesture meant to make folks feel better.
even worse
it can become a pretext for doing nothing,
well i cannot join an eco-village so i do nothing.
just like i hear some above going on about nature
like that only exists in the woods
when nature is right outside their door.

[chrisandstepheny]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i don't need new building & housing codes
that force me out of my old home
into a mud hut because some control freaks
think they know better what i need than i do.
and ultimately that IS where this 'movement' is heading-
only 'approved' houses will be allowed in the new eco-villages,
the rich yuppies will gobble up the new status symbols
and pass ordinances to 'beautify' the neighborhoods
and then they'll spread out, forcing their 'vision' on the rest of us.
be clean.

I have to disagree with this statement. My reasoning is that the code and permits that are forced on urban housing is a big cash cow for construction firms who make butt loads of money. And the fact of the matter is these geological and biological "green" materials are cheap and there is no money in this. Remember who makes these policies ... the rich and powerful. And all they want to do is make our lives more dependent on their goods.
Also, I think any policies that have to do with "green living" are BS. What is being considered right now by policies makers are things like the carbon tax.http://www.carbontax.org/ here's the a disturbing link about it. A tax is definitely not the way to go. I mean can't we just plant some trees or grow hemp both of which would consume carbon and replenish oxygen. But the gov't feels it's our fault that global warming is growing at an experiential rate (not to mention that they are putting barium and aluminum in our atmosphere to control the weather and the real reason global warming is risinghttp://weatherwars.info/)and that we have to pay for something that we breathe out everyday. Taxes don't solve anything. I mean how many people stop smoking and drinking alcohol because of the sin tax? This is the rich yuppies ideals.

[steeq]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

it's only voluntary until there are enough 'believers' to ram it down everyone else's throat by law.
it'll go just like the no-smoking movement,
at first it was voluntary,
and they were accomodated with no-smoking sections.
but that wasn't good enough,
policies were put in place restricting smokers,
go outdoors, get off the property.
now entire cities and states are banning smoking
even in the outdoors,
massive taxes are levied just on smokers
who are forced to pay for measures used against them.
etc.
just one example, maybe not the best but it's one that
everyone can plainly see.

I agree with this 100%. The government oversteps the line IMO with these type of laws "protecting us from ourselves". The government should have no say in if a business owner wants to allow smoking in their establishment. I have seen this hurt many bar owners in my area, since this law affects only a few towns nearby me. Smokers just go down the road where smoking is allowed. IMO if you don't like smoky bars, then don't go to that bar.

[Hippie3]

And the fact of the matter is these geological and biological "green" materials are cheap and there is no money in this.

that's what they told us about 'organic gardening'-
no pesticides to buy, make your own compost, etc.
but look now-
it's a multi-billion dollar business
and organic stuff costs MORE.
it'll be the same here,
home-made will be replaced by pre-fab
to save time and energy and bring uniformity
then the price will inexorably rise.
there is always a way to make money off human activity.

[prism1234]

This is the kind of change that I am hoping for. Corporate interests become cleaner and sustainable due to the economic and social benefits of the activity.

[Hippie3]

Corporate interests become cleaner and sustainable due to the economic and social benefits of the activity.

already the politicians are scrambling,
talking about how much $$ can be made
in new 'green' industries, 'green' jobs.
it's already been packaged and sold, man.
slap on a brand name [think next regime in washington]
and the 'green revolution' will be a reality,
carried live on cable tv, youtube and ipod.
i'll slap a 'carbon debt off-setted' bumper sticker on my car,
sip my latte' out of some fancy 'green' cup
[only takes decades instead of centuries to rot]
and read about how great it'll all be
under my CFLs.

[August West]

Originally Posted by cap

...the erath will shut off and die sooner then later...

I think this is a major flaw in "the movement". A little perspective can go a long way ie. humans cannot save nor destroy the earth. They can help foster an environment where they can thrive but the earth's destruction is beyond their scope. JMHO

[mydarling]

hip, what do you have in mind as a pragmatic, realistic, hopeful solution?