Suboxone Treatment

[thafunkyone]

Hey everyone!

I didn't find a very relevant subforum for this cause its not really a fun drug, but basically I put myself into an outpatient rehab last week for opies. I thought it would be a good idea, drugs get expensive and I'm sick of going through the find drugs/feel good/get sick cycle that I've been doing for the last few years...

So it took me 2 clinics and a shit ton of cash but I found a good program last week. I had two options- Methadone and Suboxone. Having been on methadone a long time ago and having a horrible horrible time kicking that, along with the fact that you have to go to a clinic every fucking day, which I can't do as I travel frequently with my job, I went with the subs.

I've done a good bit of research on subs, but I'm definately not claiming to know everything. I don't know if anyone here has done sub rehab so I'd like to accomplish 2 things with this: I'd like to share my experience with you guys in case you ever end up in my situation, and open a dialogue with other folks that have been through this situation.

I'm off to work for now, but I'm going to post the whole first part of the program and how its works tonight, and if anything else has anything to add on please do! I want to have a conversation about this if possible. If any mods have a better subforum to put this in move it over, but this is something we don't talk about too much- the unfun part of drugs....

I don't want this to turn into and 'atta boy' 'I'm proud of you!' thread, I really want a discussion, so hopefully someone besides me has some insight.

[dice]

I recently just went through detox and rehab a 4 month process up here.
Was taking 160mg of oc a day and ran out 4 days early so was going through
wds real real bad. Never knew i was that bad off till was out.
So anyways once in detox they started me on the subs.
Was in detox alone all but a month.
Now ive never tried done being the subs are made specifically for meds
and not for H like done is.
To be honest I couldnt have imagined going through the process without them.

[BeardedLadysLady]

I have been on suboxone and I think they are great.
They really really help with kicking the shit if you do exactly as your doctors say. You dont have a hard time weaning form them like methodone.
Let us know how your doing!!
much love

[Shamsu]

I am waiting for the Drs to call me this week to let me know if they are going to use Suboxone for my chronic pain/habit i feel yah.

[MrZeus]

I have limited experience with suboxone, several years back I had a very bad addiction to oc's. It got to 9 80mg a day. $400 a day. Went through an inheritance in a few months. When the money ran out, I had a hella bad monkey on my back as you can imagine. I went to a detox center. I had been in withdrawal for 2 days at the time. Later in the day, a different Dr. came in to see me and asked me if I'd heard of suboxone. I said yes please! Within 30 minutes I felt so much better. I took them only for 4 or 5 days to get thru the worst part, but then they put me out when they found out my insurance was no good anymore. They really did work though, if used as intended and weaned from them.

[dial8]

I have a friend who is doing the same thing in rehab. They put her on suboxone. She swears by em. I can tell a major change in her daily attitude. She is a much happier and healthy person. She no longer has those god awful mood swings.

[rocketman]

I am proud of you TF1. I was so happy to hear when you first told me in chat about your decision. Life will change for the better for you and your family. Also, youll find out being sober is a high in itself since it has been so long for you. No more feeling like a zombie when you are dosed up and no more being dope sick when you cant score. Its gonna be a trip to feel again.

Stay the fuck away from anyone that does or sells the stuff. Make sure you dont bullshit yourself into justifying a single dose. You know this but you also know me and that I have to toss in some advice .

I am glad you have found a program and I am very interested in hearing the details. The money you spend now will save you many thousands in the long run.

[thafunkyone]

Alright, so it looks like we've got a good few people that have tried sub...good turnout! I'd actually used sub before I wanted to kick, basically to not be sick and in small doses. Most people i know that have used them for those reasons did a pretty small dose, like 2mg. If you're buying them off the street for $15 a piece you're gonna do as small amount as possible. Makes sense to stretch it out for when you're in a bind. Its pretty much the same thing when you do say a 2-4 wk detox, they keep the dose small, between 2 and 8 mg. Even though its a partial-antagonist it's still an opiod, a very strong one at that. Very addictive.

I'm in a different program, its more of a sub maintenance program similar to methadone. The dosage is also much higher. Full blocking effects don't start until 6-8 mg, so they started me off at 16mg. The first clinic I went to was a private methadone clinic that also treated sub patients. I was only a little sick when I went in because I decided to kick on a friday, but no one was accepting patients until monday, so I had to catch a little buzz over the weekend. You're supposed to be a good bit into withdrawls, crapping all over, sweating, throwing up, aching, etc. before they give you the first dose, or else it will send you into precipitated withdrawls, which last a couple hours- instant withdrawls. Please remember this if anyone offers you subs while you're high- it will make you sick for a couple hours. So the lady tries to tell me to come back later because I'm not sick enough, I had drank some hydro cough syrup the night before, wasn't long enough. I told her ummm, yeah I'm sick enough give me the drugs. They gave me one 8mg to take then, and one to take home if I needed it. Then I sat in the room for a half hour to make sure I wasn't going to throw myself into worse withdrawls. I was fine, not my first time.

So I take the second home and end up taking half because I'm still feeling shitty. After that I find out I'm going to ATL for work for a couple days, and they'd already told me I couldn't get any take home doses until I had a clean UA. Evidently they think reefer and valium are worse drugs than I, so I have to wait. I told em what they'd find and they still counted it against me.

So the next morning I get up at 6 to go in again. I take the other half with me, figuring since I had A. paid for it and B. was going out of town and was real straight with them, they'd let me keep it for the next day when I was out of town. No such luck. I told the counselor and she made me throw it away. Then I tell them I'm going out of town for 2 days and she tells me I can stop in a clinic there and dose but they won't give me a script for 2 days. She says I should be fine as long as I am back in 2 days, it has a long half-life. I tell her I'll just cop something there from friends. She doesn't like that. I know I need to switch clinics then. So I get my dose, go out of town, get drunk so I don't feel horrible, and don't dose the next day. I can't have people I work with take me to a methadone clinic. Get home the next night sick as fuck, eat some valiums and sleep for about 3 hrs.

So I go in when they open at 6 and get my dose cause I'm sick 4 days into kicking. take my 16 mg and talk to the counselor again. Tell her I'm going out of town for 2 weeks and I'm going to need a script. which they said shouldn't be a problem when I first started. Now it is. I tried my darndest to play by their rules but hadn't been playing long enough evidently. The couldn't refer me to anyone else, she gave me a list and said good luck. I wasn't mad, their program didn't work for me, whatever. course I'd given them 300 bucks already which I got none back of.

Damn this is long.

I go home and start calling around. Every place has their own little program in which you come see them every day or every other day for a couple weeks. none of those was going to work. started thinking about finking some drugs....finally after about 10 calls I call a program at a local university hospital- which I find out is one of the top programs in america for subs- and go in there 2 hrs later. I go in, tell the dr. the story I'd just told you all, and told her I was trying to find someone that could help me, because everyone else keeps telling me why they can't help, like I give a fuck why they can't. She asks me how I feel, I tell her shitty. She ups my dose to 24 mg/day, writes me a script, and tells me to call when I get back in town. YAY! I go to weekly counseling, 2 groups/month and 2 solo/month, and see her once a month for a couple months. I ask her if I have to stop smoking herb, because it does help with my pain ( I do have real pain) and she shoots that down, but says if I play the game right and go to counseling and pee clean when I see her she'll write me scripts for 3 months at a time. I can work with that.

So drug free for a while. I've smoked 2 bowls. Its hard to quit. Calms me down. No more benzos. no problem. No opies, I'd have to wait 48 hrs for them to work...if I take em now no buzz at all.

I don't want to stay on 24 mg. I'm pretty much out of the woods as far as kicking so I'm going to taper off. They do give me a little nod, so they're not that bad, but it'll go away. My script this month was $600. They asked me 3 times if I wanted to fill the whole thing. I guess I'm the only junkie in town with money. Its irritating to take pills and not get a buzz. Its supposed to curb cravings, I haven't gotten that yet. I'm gonna keep updating this because it looks so far like I'm the only one on a long term program, and from what I've read its hard to kick subs. A long long slow taper. I'm gonna get back down to 6-8 mg in the next couple weeks. We'll see what happens...

Edit: It sounds like Dice and BLL have been on them semi-long term. Dice 4 mos- what was your dose and how long was the taper?
BLL- was yours the same thing or was it a quick detox?

I'm asking b/c the dr is telling me at least a year, maybe longer. At those lengths it resets your receptors and your body starts making endorphins again, basically resetting your tolerance. I hope so...I can't tell the dr I need 4 80's a day for a toothache.....

[dice]

Originally Posted by rocketman

Also, youll find out being sober is a high in itself since it has been so long for you. No more feeling like a zombie when you are dosed up and no more being dope sick when you cant score. Its gonna be a trip to feel again.

Thats funny my last month there I kept telling my doc, and in group that I felt high for some reason.
Still do I guess but more used to it now.


Damn tfo I feel ya bro.
Im totally stoked for ya to find a program like that.
Def worth the wait though man.
And for me I was 4 days in also when I made the decision
I had to do something, and was close to getting something else.
So wasnt the next day till I had anything but they started me on the 24s also.
Man n Im like you couldnt sleep for shit at night no matter how many benzos
or how much nyquil I might sleep for an hour then wake for 2 then maybe
fall asleep again.
So glad to hear you wont have to go through that shit anymore and able
to still keep working. No you said you didnt want to hear it but
Im proud of you man It takes a strong as mofo to make that move.
Keep at it man with just doing this myself I can tell you it will get better.
Much Love tfo

[Doctor D]

TFO - I've been on Suboxone for the last 5 years. 16mg is plenty, and 24mg really is overkill. I went up to 24mg myself, and I've heard of some people going even higher. If I understand correctly, the FDA stopped allowing 30 day refills on suboxone prescriptions above 24mg due to the high prevalance of diversion of those doses.

It has taken me two years to titrate down from 16mg to the .5mg I am at now. I'm set to jump off at Christmas. I could jump off now, but I'm waiting for more time off from work. The last 2mgs has been and continues to be very difficult for me. Bottom line - the higher you stay at those astronomically high suboxone doses, the harder it will be for you to lower your dose near the end. But also, the longer you can stay on suboxone, the greater chance you have of sorting your life out and reducing the possibility of a future relapse.

I don't like the idea of roller coaster detoxes, where a person goes in and out of treatment, only to need treating again in six months. Been there, done that. Every time I've gotten clean for any length of time, I've always fallen even harder the next time around. Of course, everyone is different. But I've buried too many friends who have promised that "this detox is gonna be the last!" There's gotta be a better way, and I feel that opioid replacement therapy has a good chance of being that better way. It sure seems to be working for me, but I won't know for sure until after I finally jump off in December.

Good luck man!

[masterplain88]

i have taken them a few times for a short peroid to help with wd's. i deff agree with useing them at low doeses. i would use it to step down from heroin takeing only 8-16 mg a day just enought to feel normal. after a couple days of 8mg aday i would cut in in half then cut it to 2 mg and stop. i think it works better when useing the least amount you need you start takeing higher doeses for a long time then you have another drug to kick. i have heard from a couple people that wd's after takeing high doeses for a long time were just as bad. my girl was on them from the doctor and he did like a 90 day step down starting with the 8mg then cutting her down to 2 2 mg a day wich i think is way to long i think they work better useing them just for 1-2 weeks.
masterplain88

[thafunkyone]

Originally Posted by Doctor D

TFO - I've been on Suboxone for the last 5 years. 16mg is plenty, and 24mg really is overkill. I went up to 24mg myself, and I've heard of some people going even higher. If I understand correctly, the FDA stopped allowing 30 day refills on suboxone prescriptions above 24mg due to the high prevalance of diversion of those doses.

It has taken me two years to titrate down from 16mg to the .5mg I am at now. I'm set to jump off at Christmas. I could jump off now, but I'm waiting for more time off from work. The last 2mgs has been and continues to be very difficult for me. Bottom line - the higher you stay at those astronomically high suboxone doses, the harder it will be for you to lower your dose near the end. But also, the longer you can stay on suboxone, the greater chance you have of sorting your life out and reducing the possibility of a future relapse.

I don't like the idea of roller coaster detoxes, where a person goes in and out of treatment, only to need treating again in six months. Been there, done that. Every time I've gotten clean for any length of time, I've always fallen even harder the next time around. Of course, everyone is different. But I've buried too many friends who have promised that "this detox is gonna be the last!" There's gotta be a better way, and I feel that opioid replacement therapy has a good chance of being that better way. It sure seems to be working for me, but I won't know for sure until after I finally jump off in December.

Good luck man!

I agree 24mg is overkill. I asked her to put me on that until I get through wd's which is basically soon, she said she didn't care if I had too many the only thing they don't like is when you run out early aka diversion. I've been on em for a week and people are already asking me for some, I'm telling em fuck off you want to quit go to treatment. I'm gonna help one friend and thats because he's waiting to get into the same group as me. They cost me $7 a piece, I'm not giving em away because you're too broke to get high. He's giving me back the same quantity I give him. He's a good friend.

I agree that the longer I'm on them the better chance of no relapse. At first all I wanted was a quick detox. I know that won't work for me. I know I'm gonna mess up once in a while, it happens. But I'm really gonna try not to. 5 years is a long time bro, I've read the last 2 mg is a mf'er... I lurk on an opiate board (they never open fucking registration) so I see lots of stories about that last little bit. Best of luck to you! I hope its not too hard.

[masterplain88]

i do agree to that to a point but the bottom line is quitting is hard peroid. so wether you take them for 5 years or take them for 2 weeks like i did there was still a restless night after stoping but no physical wd's but i guess other people could have diffrent reaction after the step down. thats why i think small doese are better because like you said the last 2 mg sucks and the less of the drug you can get by on the less the uncomforable feeling is.
masterplain88


I agree that the longer I'm on them the better chance of no relapse. At first all I wanted was a quick detox. I know that won't work for me. I know I'm gonna mess up once in a while, it happens.

[dreadydavo]

As doc d said you can take two main routes: keep the heavy doses for now which will make you have to keep taking it for the long haul, gradually stepping it down over time / or drop your doses as soon as possible, making it easier to get off quicker.
Unlike methadone if you get off dope and move to bupronorphine you arent automatically hooked on the bupro so strongly. It takes heavy doses and time to get stuck on that- which makes it good for quickly stepping down doses and getting clean fast. But relapses are just as fast as sobriety if youre not serious about it.
The good part of heavy and longterm is that although you have to keep taking the bupro, you cant get high while on it giving you a chance to straighten up and get used to more "sober" living: letting you change your people, places and things.
I tried the quick 1 1/2 week suboxone cleanup off pills and smack and got clean, MANY TIMES. i'd do well for a while then get right back into it. The longterm probably would have worked better for me, but i didnt want to admit to myself that i needed it- it took me getting popped and detoxing in county, then spending 6 months in a county rehab to clean up. i quit hanging with everybody but my wife and avoided my old spots- i'm just now getting used to this new life, but, so far so good. Unfortunately it took a whole lotta shit it make me face my demons. But the fact is i always knew what i should do- what was the best course to take- i juust couldnt admit it to myself.
Sorry to ramble, i hope you figure out the best course to take for yourself, it sure is tough either way.

[dial8]

The girl I know was on dones for a while too. They really just replaced the codein problem and became a problem themselves. IMHO, methadone is just a way for the government to compete with street dealers.

[masterplain88]

yea i think the methadone is hard to kick i was alot sicker from that than kicking dope on its own. for people that are serouse about quiting i think suboxone is better. the methadone just gets you a lil high so you dont want to get high but the suboxone has naloxon or narcon the stuff they give you for overdoses in it also.
masterplain88

[CamelTom]

All i have to say is
ill never eat any thing with artificial orange flavor ever again !!!!!!!
just thinking of it makes me want to gag
yuck
to each is there own
i would have gone with methadone
doesnt make me as sick

[LSDarkstar]

I haven't posted in so long , it's pathetic and inexcusable. (Sorry but my World has been turned rightside up and inside down in the past few months).
Feeling like I'm still waking up .....this is a crazy splace.

I just gotta chime in with a "stay strong" vibe. Set your intension and work it bro... my heart is with you ( all of you for that matter) . OP's are a mutha if youre bitten. But , ultimately you are the master of your own destiny. Set your course each day . Allow yourself TIME to heal .

As for the methadone or suboxone question ...... not done either . Wish I could help more. I can relate though , sickness runs in the Family over here too. I use THAT sick feeling as a motivation tool. It's powerful.


Treatment can be many things and be performed in many ways. I am soooo glad suboxone is an option for folks...... there's a rainbow at the end of the tunnel. Monkeys weigh way too much , lose weight and part. Best of Luck and Stay Strong !!!!!!

Thanks for your open heart and
desire for a new way,
LSD

(manifest healing memes)

P.S. - Eventhough , I feel my shadow is the monkey I left behind .... I choose not to open THAT door right now. Today.

[Achtwan]

i suffered from a polyopiod addiction,oxycontin,methadone for
around 10 years.back and forth,in and out of the stray.
lived like a slave.
four years ago was fortunate enough to be treated with ibogaine.
i have never touched that shit since.

there is NOTHING else that can do what it does.
it can break the cycle completely,and give you back your power to
choose to live without your lifes agenda dictated by whether or not
you have opiates.
it provides a true opportunity that just isnt there for most people without
it.
that is the power to begin again.
i will always be grateful to that plant/alkaloid,and i will always sing its praises!....EBOKA!!!!

the current legal status of this medicine in our free country is typical.
its to effective for big pharma to make money off of,keeping people strung
out on"maintenance",is the way to keep the money coming,and the status quo as is...this shit burns me up!....
ok sorry for the rant.
anyhow,i just wanted to share my thoughts on the suboxone/methadone maintenance subject.

my sincere best wishes go out to all who fight this monster.

[Shamsu]

To all those who dont plan on actually using the subs for there intentended use...remember there are no subs for subs. be carefull and good luck to you all. I know what WD is like, i came off of a 200+ oxymorphone addiction cold turkey. my parents locked me in the house and stayed with me for the durration. 3 fuckin weeks of the worst wd i have ever had, and ive been on many different opiets. to put this into perspective. A norman anelgesic dose for an opiet nieve(sp?) patient is usually 30 mg. And the every day percocet(oxycodone/APAP) is 15 to 20 times stronger, so about 1mg perc equals 15-20mg codine, so 10 mg percocet is equal to eating roughly 150 mg codine. And what i was on, Oxymorphone is 70 times stronger than codine. so a 60mg tab of OPANA(what i was snorting up to 8 times a day =480mg oxymorphone/day) is equivelant to 4200mg codine. Heroin is 5-7 times weaker than oxymorphone!!!! So i feel your pain and i also fel the urge to crush up these 8o 10 mg percs i have and do em, but then i wouldnt have any tomarrow for pain.

Bottom line If you have the option to take subs and you actually need them, take them but be carefull. like i said thier are no subs for subs. but they do take away that nagging urge to do more drugs, and not just opiets but other thins as well. i just feel like im 100% on them and dont even think about any drugs but weed. sorry this kinda turned into a rant

[Calaquendi]

Very good thread tfo, I wish you and everyone struggling with this the best. I have been on methadone then suboxone also, and care is certainly needed. Replacement therapy carries its own dangers - whenever you do come off totally it will be uncomfortable for a while, but if you do it appropriately it'll be less difficult than kicking on your own for sure...

I would never have been able to put any time together were it not for iboga. It appeals to me in that it is 'natural' and the success rate of the treatment is almost unbelievable. May be something to look into? I know some other members here have used iboga TA or ibogaine with amazing results. I do think suboxone is a far 'better' treatment than methadone; it doesn't inebriate you like methadone does and you can (if you're lucky) find a physician to write you a script instead of shuffling through the clinic every fucking morning...

I could go on and on about the benefits of iboga therapy but I don't wanna hijack your thread, I hope you can continue working through this and I'm glad you decided to share! Thanks man and God bless...


PS>>

Originally Posted by thafunkyone

Its irritating to take pills and not get a buzz.

ain't that the truth!

[Doctor D]

One good thing about suboxone: the manufacturer, Reckitt, lost its patent on the drug this month on October 8th. This will open up the market for generic suboxone and hopefully lower the cost considerably, especially for those who don't have health insurance to cover the cost of their doses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ug-patent.html

[thafunkyone]

I just read that today Dr. D. I'm stoked. I think I'll be on maintenance for a bit, mainly because it won't let me get high. This shit is supposed to curb your cravings? Doesn't do shit for me. I do feel better being sober but damn I like to get high. So I'll have to take them until I forget the feeling. Since I know its a waste of $$ to buy some drugs n do em I won't do it.

I don't know how this is really going to work for me. I can't really find a stable dose. I just don't think its working. Of course right now I'm working 16 hr days so I don't know what the fuck is going on, I get up, work, and go to bed. For the first few days I was getting a nice little nod, thats not even going on anymore. Then I've been going up and down in dose, which doesn't really do much. I really just want it to take care of the cravings.

I can't believe I actually can't wait to talk to the counselor. Maybe I need some reassurance that this is going to be worth it. Right now I think I can stop taking subs and not really experience wd's from them, but if I do I know I'll go back to drugs. I really do think that if they just let me smoke pot AND take subs I'd be fine. I understand the theory of I'm just replacing oxys with subs, but whats wrong with replacing it with a lil cheeba? Oh, cause reefer is illegal....

[raveneye]

TFO, I'm sending some good vibes your way man. Hang in there.

one of the otha brotha's

[Doctor D]

Originally Posted by thafunkyone

I just read that today Dr. D. I'm stoked. I think I'll be on maintenance for a bit, mainly because it won't let me get high. This shit is supposed to curb your cravings? Doesn't do shit for me. I do feel better being sober but damn I like to get high. So I'll have to take them until I forget the feeling. Since I know its a waste of $$ to buy some drugs n do em I won't do it.

I don't know how this is really going to work for me. I can't really find a stable dose. I just don't think its working. Of course right now I'm working 16 hr days so I don't know what the fuck is going on, I get up, work, and go to bed. For the first few days I was getting a nice little nod, thats not even going on anymore. Then I've been going up and down in dose, which doesn't really do much. I really just want it to take care of the cravings.

Unfortunately I think only time lessens the craving. Have you done any counselor-led group therapy? I had that at a methadone clinic years ago, and I found it to be beneficial to talk with a counselor and other addicts about my addiction. Cravings won't ever go away entirely - you'll need to learn how to manage your cravings so that they don't overpower you. A stable suboxone dose won't ever make you stop wanting to get high, but it will stop you from getting sick.

When people first get on suboxone, I think many make the mistake of expecting to get high from it, so they up their dose repeatedly trying to chase what little lift it gives you. Well, the lift that suboxone gives you is LAME - very fleeting and utterly unsatisfying as a high. Eventually, if you want to stick with suboxone treatment, you'll have to give up chasing that nonexistent high. It's at that point, IMO, that real progress in treating your addiction begins. You have to give that up, because you won't find it in suboxone. What you will find is relief from the day-to-day grind of having to score your dope and the always imminent threat of withdrawal. A stable dose of buprenorphine is one in which you no longer have physical withdrawal pain, you can sleep at night, and you don't have diarrhea. If you can say that much, then IMO you're already doing pretty darn good.

[Doctor D]

Well, TFO - Not to jack your thread or anything, but I thought it fitting to mention this here. My suboxone doc, after I mentioned my small dose (about .45mg buprenorphine) and my concern about being on a high dose of temazepam for several months due to directly related sleep problems, suggested that I try jumping off the suboxone this weekend. He is under the opinion that I can do this in a weekend's time and be able to go to work on Monday right as rain. I, on the other hand, feel he's full of shit! However, I am game to try it his way. I've never actually gone an entire weekend without my dose, so he could possibly be right. Either way I need to do it so I can speak with authority on the matter the next time I talk with him. It's been 28 hours since my last dose, which was smaller than my usual. Not feeling the greatest, but if it doesn't get much worse, this will be entirely tolerable. Will let you know how I make out.

(And TFO if you prefer, I can make my own thread if you don't want me cluttering up yours. Just let me know.)

[muffy]

I've been on and off with "the box" for almost two years now,
close friends take it as well,
shit is just as bad imo as the rest of it...
ppl round here bump it for the narcotic effect they are used to,
and I'm no exception.

I try not to do em too many days in a row,
because they do cause a dependency, regardless of who says what.
Family members of mine bump 1/4 a pill a day,
and can be the biggest asshole's in the world,
when they are not dosed.
sound familiar?

to me,
it's the same as the rest,
except cheaper, longer lasting, and excessively available.

As to your Dr.'s advice on a one weekend push to quit,
I personally don't see that happening that soon,
but it's a start.

If I go on a binge,
it usually takes me several days of feeling like shit,
before I start feeling good about not thinking about that orange pill,
usually pondering about wanting to call my hookup and score,
because why should I feel like shit when 1/10th of a mg makes me feel normal?
after all, isn't that the purpose of medicine?

my advice is to be honest with yourself,
try to seek the real reasons you use opiates,
and try to negotiate your own terms from there.

I personally have not touched anything other than 'the box' in almost 2 years now,
and can tell you I have no urge to any more. It's a hard road to travel, but when you plan your destination it goes by quick.

Good luck to you, I know it can be a bitch.

[Golden Teacher]

Subox works for me! I have used tons of different opies over the last three or four years. Ended up finding a connection for fentynal patches and that was about the death of me.

I was taking four to five 100mcg/hr patches a day. I decided enough was enough when a friend had to smack me in the face to keep me awake for a couple hours. Nasty fuckn monkey.

I used subox for a couple months and it really helped me stop taking opiates. When I'm having a crazy urge to cop some scratch, I just try to focus on how bad wds are and how much I hate that feeling of wanting to get more scratch after just one night of indulgence. I hate self induced anxiety!!!!

Best of luck and keep it up! After a couple months the mental craving started to go down a lot too. Took a while but I feel SOOOO much better not having to plan my life around some fuckn scratch.



GT

[Doctor D]

To give an update, I am now 13 days off of Suboxone. I've been on opioid replacement therapies for the last 7 years, so this is the first time in a LONG time that I have gone this long without reaching for a pill or dose cup first thing in the morning.

Acute suboxone withdrawal from around .40mg buprenorphine was longer than I expected, but still pretty mild. A lot of jerking legs and a bit of body aches, back aches, but all in all pretty tolerable. I was able to cope the entire time with alcohol and benzos. At around 36 hours into WD (which were building up to their peak) I was still able to drunkenly attend my neighbor's Halloween party.

One thing I will say - when your doc says "you can do it in a weekend with little to no withdrawal" - don't listen. It took me SIX days before I felt up to going to work. I'd say plan for seven and be thankful when you can go to work in 5.

I'm still not "normal", but I'm reaching a new normal every day. My insomnia is still as bad as ever (I average 2-3 hours of sleep a night), and from what I gather from the myriad of misinfo on the Internet, this appears to be a long-term side effect of Suboxone withdrawal. My doctor has been of NO help. Always more than helpful while I was a paying patient, once he suggested I jump off, he basically sprung me loose without a single return phone call. I made several frantic calls to him while in withdrawal agony that he hasn't yet returned. No "How are you making out after being my patient for the last 5 years?" phone calls. Fucker. Sorry for the ramble, but this insomnia is driving me insane. Not a whole lot I can do about it, though, but just tough it out.

So, that's what I'm doing - toughing it out. I know I can't stay awake forever. Sooner or later my sleeping rhythm will return, until then I'm just not supposed to sleep. I've just got to accept that and move on. So just be forewarned you may end up having similar difficulty if you stay on the medication for any length of time.

Good luck to you all!

[floppypeter]

sometimes i have acute insomnia and cant sleep for three days. My docs cure was serequil. I did not like it to say the least. Now if i cant sleep i go for a jog and run til i cant run any more and then i walk until im exhausted then im usually able to fall asleep, sometimes i have to exercise for two or three hours very vigorously, sooner or later I crash and fall asleep, remember to drink water if your gonna try to exhaust yourself. Most people refuse this method and prefer a pill or to just complain and whine.

good work on getting off the opiates, very impressive

[rocketman]

Benedryl in high doses is usually the only way I can sleep unless like FP stated I am exhausted. The benedryl dependancy came in place of the opiate addiction. A good trade for me.

There is no magic bullet for opiate or opioid addiction. The closest is iboga or ibogaine, but it is not without its dangers. It also isnt effective for everyone. I believe a person must change thier lifestyle and remove themselves from potentially risky situations. I had to cut all ties with anyone that ever gave me a pain pill.

TF1, stop saying youd go back to drugs man! You have to be hard assed to yourself sometimes, and this is one of those times. Quit looking for reasons to go back. You need to want to never go back with all the resolve you have. Life is more than chasing pills down. Let the docs make you as comfortable as possible, after that you have to accept the fact you will suffer. The good thing is you wont suffer forever. Never give up on yourself!

DocD, I know you are an old hand at this, and your doctors behaviour isnt any surprise to me. Just hang tough like you have been and it will be done soon. I got such a rush after my endorphins kicked back in. It was like I had been sick for so long and then suddenly I was better than I could ever remember feeling.

You guys both are doing what it takes to make your lives better. Anyone can give up and just say fuck it.

[thafunkyone]

Here's a little update- FUCK THAT FUCKING CLINIC.

I was out of town for a month. When i started the program I told them I'd be gone for around a month and had no definite date that I'd be back in town. They said ok, just call and make an appointment when you know when you'll be back. Easy, right?

So I call yesterday to make an appointment and start with the counseling. The receptionist tells me the first opening they have is Jan 11. I tell her I've got about 2 wks maybe of sub left, thats not going to work, and they told me no problem call when I get back. She said that the clinic had a couple drs. leave suddenly so they were having issues and didn't have anymore room. I said well, can I get a prescription and then resume therapy in January? She said no, just use what you have, then you'll have 'flu-like' symptoms for about 4 days.

BULLSHIT.

Bupe is a long acting opiod. The half-life is around 36 hrs. It takes around 3 weeks to kick. 3 very uncomfortable weeks. I tell her I'm flabbergasted, I thought this was a place in which people got helped, and told her I've been to 2 clinics that didn't help me now. Then I told her I was going to go buy some drugs on the street and go back to what I was doing, since that was more reliable and I wasn't about to be sick for 3 weeks again, thats why I went to FUCKING REHAB in the first place. She said I wouldn't recommend that, so I told her she didn't recommend anything for me except that she couldn't help me, and I'm going to go get high.

Then she said hold on wait a minute.

She came back about 3 minutes later and said she was going to try and get me into a different clinic in the same system, but it was going to cost more. I said I don't care about the cost within reason, it was cheaper than my 2k/month drug habit.

So I'm waiting to hear back from her. She ended up being real nice and felt bad because they screwed me.

So then the Dr. calls me. Why? I have no fucking clue. I talked to her for a minute and asked her if there was any way she could help me, as I was gonna run out of subs soon and really didn't wanna WD from those, I'd have rather WD'ed from the OC. She said she couldn't help me, and that maybe their program just 'wasn't for me'. What the fuck did that mean? I told her if that is what she had to tell herself to make her feel better for screwing me over then go right ahead. She's got a definite Dr. Complex.

So I'm in limbo now. I've spent a bunch of money on these places so far, and they really don't give a shit. A guy that owes me $ is paying me in oc so I'm gonna get high for the weekend. I'm irritated and sick of messing with these places. I don't think anyone truly wants to help. Actually the first clinic I went to had a bunch of nice people and I liked it there, but they had me come in every morning like I was on methadone and I don't have time for that.

So I'm gonna get high for the weekend and revisit my options on monday. I'm mentally drained from jumping through all these hoops only to still get fucked. My wife is out of town so she's not gonna be seeing me get wasted, might as well do it while I can.

[thafunkyone]

Alright time to end this lil sub journey. I've stopped with the subs, or weaned way down basically. I'm taking like 1 mg now, went down real quick, and did a couple ocs in between. I'm out of the 'getting high all the time' mode, so I think I'll be alright. I'm really not interested in paying anymore money for this shit and I feel pretty good. If I just smoke pot I'll be a good doobie again, pardon the pun. I always have reefer available so I'll just stick with that.

I know this sounds fucked up, but I'll probably relapse again in the next few years. Most drug addicts I know do. It is what it is, but I'm pretty good right now and I'm gonna keep it that way for a while and hope for the best.

[Mermaidia]

Stay strong funky, you can stay sober.

You have come this far, don't think you will relapse just cause others have. You have to stay positive. YOU CAN DO THIS!

[whatchamacallit]

Best of luck brother, but seriously think about Calaquendi's ideas about Iboga, as it has helped SWIM, and countless others with little to no withdrawal and not only that but the added benefit in other areas of one's life if they so choose.

It basically resets the brain to no addiction and then one can learn to make healthier choices. Iboga helped SWIM kick methadone after a long ass habit, then sweets, cigs, and pork, for some reason.. SWIM had 5 years clean and still hadn't had the urge to take long addictive drug binges on anything but herb or psychedelics. Some of the best years of SWIM's life.

He has a small pod habit from an injury earlier this year, but is doing the iboga again, and will probably have it even easier this time cause he never switched to some long acting stupid replacement opiate program.

This time he shouldn't get any withdrawal which is common for the shorter acting opiates. Even on years and years of methadone the withdrawal and cravings after Iboga were next to nothing on a single dose.

If you ever wanna talk about it for real bro, you can always get ahold of SWIM and I. Hope you're feeling better always!