Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts

[tregar]

Hi fingers.

Thanks for the welcome.

You must have me confused with someone else.

I picked this avatar not but a few months ago.

I've only been posting on the forum for a few months. But I was a long time reader for many years.

I got rather upset when you sent me a very long personal message where you chewed me out for something or other which I have no idea what your talking about.

I am not this person you are referring to who used my avatar.

Geeez, I guess I better change my avatar.

I picked this pink floyd poster avatar because I'm a floyd and zeppelin fan...but had I know it would have stirred up so much trouble I would never have used it.

Again, I am not this person you say used to be on the board a long time ago, and used to post.

You say you are going to talk to a few moderators about getting me banded--but listen again, I AM NOT the person who you claimed had this avatar before me. I don't know anything about that person you are referring to.

Take care.

I have felt very warm and welcomed by the many people who have posted replies and what not...please don't spoil this for me. I AM NOT the person who used this avatar before me, whoever that was.

I am changing my avatar since it seems to invoke some bad memories in you for your peace of mind anyways.

This is NOT how you make a new member feel welcome.

[fingers]

Damn,

I acknowledged it was a misunderstanding on my part, i apologised about 3-4 times, completely my fault and my mix up.

But you still feel its nessisary to air this on the boards?

Anyway,

have a good day, and for about the 5th time, my apologies.

Fingers

[knwledgestickstation]

hey whatsup fellow psychonauts glad to be a member of this page.

just stumbled across it while broadening my knowledge on LSA and

its extraction and preperation,me and my partner run a website called

www.knowledgestickstation.co.nr and compile info on psychedelics into

1 vast data base including video extractions,trips etc. we have forums

aswell. in the future we begin to expand into selling items from our"extended menu" but with that aside,i come to the point of this post.


i found this site while researching the best possible LSA extraction
i found that the recipies i was finding where somewhat conflicting
with my origonal recipie. although some supported it, i have made

a post in our forums trying to bring together the best recipies i can
find so we can combine them into the 1 ultimate recipie

if you could boot over to this link and check out the 3 recipies i have

posted you will see what i mean

http://p4.forumforfree.com/lsa-synth...dgetickst.html

i feel if we work from this a new way of extracting it can be found.

so far i understand that the non-polar wash stage can be skipped,and if you are going to

make a tar instead of drinkable tincture using the highest grain alchahol will yield your

best product. as the higher proof of alcahol you use the more of the goodies you will get.

(or so is my understanding)

best of luck and i look forward to getting to know you all!

feel free to sign up to our forums aswell we'd love to shair some

comunity members,

-andrew

[entheogen23]

Kudos Tregar for the excellent detailed post!

I had a dream just the other night (after smoking some pot earlier) about looking into LSA again, and now I see this post. My first psychedelic trip (way back in 1992) was with hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, and I took a STRONG dose (12 fresh seeds) by myself and had an amazing and terrifying trip. Ended up naked in the tub curled in the fetal position, thinking I was dying! LOL. I was a dumb kid at the time. The nausea and heavy body load of the trip left me never wanting to try it again. But these and other reports with extracts make me want to pursue LSA once again.

My FOAF distills his naptha (Ozark Trail brand) at less than 80C (for use in DMT extraction), and I am wondering if this would likely be safe enough for LSA extraction? (Reagent grade pet. ether is not easy to come by) He also always water-washes the distilled naptha just for good measure to get rid of any water-soluble stuff (no idea if this is needed, but it can't hurt it seems!)

The tincture extraction sounds like the ideal method.

I see an "ultimate LSA extraction tek" coming out of all this. Anyone up for the task?

[tregar]

Thanks entheogen23.

Hope you have much better experience with your next extraction.

Distilled naptha would most likely work just fine as reagent grade though I couldn't say. I'm still trying to get the 30 minute water extraction down!

Here is some more info from a 1994 issue of entheogen review that further backs up herme's use of a 30 minute or less cold water extraction to get out all the goodies but leaves the toxic stuff behind:

QUOTE from Eli X:
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"Seeds are the embryo of the plant. Though they are hard and dense, like roots, they are engineered to open and release their properties immediately upon contact with water, so they do not need to be infused for a long time. In fact, if seeds are brewed for too long, more than 30 minutes, bitter oils and esters are leached out into the water and a foul-tasting brew results." -- Susan S. Weed, Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year, Informed Homebirth, Boulder, 1986.
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Yes, Hopefully, someone one day will post an experience that confirms all of those visual trips that hermes had.

If so, we would be one step closer to the Mystery of the psychedelic brew at Eleusis, thought to be a water extraction of some sort of ergot infested grain -- leaving the good stuff in the water, and the toxic stuff behind.

I still have not done a second cold-water extraction of 30 minutes. My first cold-water extraction was only 5 minutes long and resulted in mild effects.

Is anyone up for dreaming of the task?

By the way, Stretchman (who used the petro ether extract a long time ago) finally wrote me back after several months and this is what HE said:

QUOTE from Stretchman (Oct 2006):
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There were a lot of colors: clouds of variegated pixels. I saw a Christmas tree dissolve in a whirlwind of color. The come-up was like mushrooms with a longer plateau at the peak. Incredibly lucid feng-shui-style revelations. I saw that the fundamental nature of being follows a circular pattern. I was awash in love.

No specific hallucinations, except I remember being particularly interested in woodgrain. I think it's a lot like acid in that it can take you anywhere, feeding from whatever surrounds you, whatever your thoughts. When the sun came up, there were colors everywhere! Delicate traceries around the windowpanes.

If you want to know what it's like, listen to "Run Like an Antelope" by Phish, or "Everybody is a Star" by Sly and the Family Stone. Same kind of vibe.

A profoundly lucid trip, I could read Jung's Man and His Symbols with no confusion.

I agree that the pet ether would be the best way to hypothetically perform such a procedure, though I have severe reservations based on a)legal ramifications and b)potential toxicity. I have resigned myself to the fact I will never again delve in these realms.
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I'm sticking with the water extraction for use in the future till I get definate strong visual effects like Hermes did...also less chance of destroying the delicate amides with exposure to light, air, and heat since it's all done in less than 1/2 hour or so.

I hope the quest for achieving strong visual effects from these seeds won't remain a mystery forever, but someone has yet to duplicate the progress made my Hermes.

[entheogen23]

Originally Posted by tregar

Thanks entheogen23.
I'm sticking with the water extraction for use in the future till I get definate strong visual effects like Hermes did...also less chance of destroying the delicate amides with exposure to light, air, and heat since it's all done in less than 1/2 hour or so.

I hope the quest for achieving strong visual effects from these seeds won't remain a mystery forever, but someone has yet to duplicate the progress made my Hermes.

Please do let us know how your future trips & extractions go!

As for cold water extraction, I may end up trying this:

1) grind to fine power
2) soak in cold distilled H20 for 1-2 hours, shaking every 5 mins or so.
3) filter via buchner funnel & vacuum filter

Also wonder if a naptha defat of the filtered H20 would help at all, in case any water soluble gunk/fats end up in the solution.

-e23

[tregar]

Yes, since a cold-water extraction of 1 to 2 hours in length would also extract some of the oils and other toxic stuff (being more than a 1/2 hour long extraction) it seems like a defat would be necessary to get out the nausea causing non-polar compounds. But foaf would never drink any water than had been mixed with defat chems. If there is ever any trace of chemical smell or anything like that in an evaporated extract also, never consume it in dreams. Read way up above in this thread to see what happened to a foaf (reported by stretchman) who consumed some extract using a non-reagent grade chem...had chemical burps, bad feelings, etc for a day or two. Just something that foaf would never mess with, distilled might be completely different, just don't know.

*This is what Stretchman had to say about using store-bought Naptha:
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"My associate followed the above extraction instructions using naptha bought at a local hardware store (Crown brand, if I can say that here). He evaporated the seed mash for three full days on layers of paper towels, in front of a fan, stirring the seeds several times a day. After three days the seeds were totally dry and there was no trace of naptha when smelled, just a pleasant, mildly nutty smell. After completing the extraction into 190 proof grain alcohol, he tried it out, mixing the grain with cranberry juice (Great mixer, BTW!) To his horror, when he downed this mix there was a distinct PETROLEUM AFTERTASTE. Well, he didn't go through all that trouble just to let that stop him, so he tried to forget about it and enjoy the experience. On the plus side, the first four or five hour were very pleasant indeed, with mild prismatic visuals, bright colors, and deep mind expanding thoughts, and an overall feeling of goodness. On the down side, the next three DAYS consisted of headache, nausea, dizziness, visual distortion (not the good kind), fatigue, sleeplessness, stomach irritation, loss of appetite, and a general feeling of, "I am a dumbass, I poisoned myself, maybe I will die." (so says my associate) He feels all right now, but who know if there will be negative effects down the road.

Just a word to the wise, from the unwise. Good luck!
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The water extract without non-polar chems seems easier and no worries and has been proven by hermes to work...seems the easiet way to learn if your seeds are even potent to begin with..or just duds.

Pineal, Nogal, Carl and hermes all used a cold-water extract only and reported some incredible visual trips...whether or not they will ever be duplicated remains to be seen in dreams.

For example, here is Nogal's trip again (using just a quick cold-water extract):
QUOTE: (from Nogal)
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"Yes I know of someone who tried this exact method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffe grinder in place of a stone metate (I think thats what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form(again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin). The only negative reaction experienced was a cramping and spasms of the inner thigh muscles which is mentioned in another post in the botanical forum. The cause of this is unsure, but hopefully someone will clear that up. Hope this is of help to you."
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QUOTE: (Carl_Ripken)
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"A friend and i tried the cold water extraction. After Washing and rinsing, we didn't have a coffee grinder,so we wrapped the seeds in tin foil and dropped a 25lb weight on them repeatedly.Thus resulting in a course powder.So we packed the seed into 4 tea bag's then simply dropped them into Slightly less than a gallon of distilled water.My friend and i wanted the lsa experience to happen outdoors,so we grabbed a cd player and some clean drinking water,and off we went. i was skeptical at first, until the lsa cranked up my reality. I had not eaten anything all day so it matabolised into my system quicker.By the time my friend started to trip i think i was peaking.The visuals were amazing, seemingly generating from random math. All throughout the trip i saw complex patterns,but these patterns would take me places. At one point i was in a open air market walkng a cow through its isle's. Other times i saw beautiful architexture, and random people. I felt radiant and peaceful all throughout the trip.Thank you for this Very good and easy to do extraction. I also got a coulple of batches from the same tea bags.As the seeds are a little expensive and i did not want to waste any."
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And lastly, one of hermes experiences (20 to 30 minute cold-water extract only):
QUOTE (hermes):
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My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!

All of the visuals have a quality that I can't describe well, verbally or with illustrations. Everything in that interior realm seems made of subtle energy and is luminous. It also often seems to have more than three spatial dimensions. It usually has a very detailed and very ordered structure, very mathematical, but arranged with a kind of structural harmony that is never seen in the physical world. The structures are beautiful beyond description. It is like visual music, with the sizes and positions shapes seemingly related by some kind of precise law that binds everything together in the most perfect harmony. The flawed forms of our world compared to those perfectly harmonious ones of that world are like the cacophany of a cocktail party compared to a symphony by Beethoven. Visual order like that has never been seen in physical form, in the natural world or in art. Fractal geometry sometimes resembles it, but still falls very short.
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Good luck.
Let us know of any dreams.
All of the dreams above are years old.

I know I have said this before, but I will say it again...there seems to be a lot of emphasis on the extraction, but maybe what we should be doing is looking into ways of growing potent fresh seeds with a high percentage of actives--as we have seen before, the potency can vary tremendoulsly from seeds....then store them in a cool place like a fridge...this has to do with genetics of the seeds and the soil conditions.
Once a good harvest of seeds is in hands, a dream of a quick cold water extraction should lay to rest whether they are good or not, then look into the extraction method details after this...I have seen bulk seeds that were completely inactive, and other seeds that were very close to ideal.


With it being winter and all, it will be difficult if not impossible to find potent fresh seeds..prepare ahead in the springtime for the fall, then store away in the fridge.

According to hermes, 100-200 Heavenly Blues is a good starter dose, which should give a mild psychedelic experience with some mild closed eye visuals.

200 seeds is around 8 grams.

What's amazing about using a magnetic stirrer, is that when you put a 900ml jar of cold distilled water on top of it, then insert your tea bag full of 8 grams of seed mush...tape the tea bag string to the side of the outside of the jar, so that the tea bag is suspended about 1 inch above the stir magnet...you can see a whirlwind of white milky liquid pour out of the bag into the vortex of the spin bar...it is amazing to watch...as the actives get pulled out of the tea bag into the water, leaving the nonpolar stuff behind...every so often agitate and squeeze the bag against the side of the glass to shift the material around....then put it back over the center of the spin magnet and watch the polar white active material continue to fall out into the spin vortex...do this for 20 to 30 minutes...I can't imagine ingesting the seeds -- there is some really nasty oily sticky greasy material in these seeds--leave it behind in the teabag where it belongs, then toss it in the trash! All you have to do is look and feel the inside of one of these spent teabags to see what it is I'm talking about.

Even though foaf has no problem vacuum filtering ayahuasca plant solutions, it just doesn't seem to work if you try to filiter a seed mush tea to get pure water. It will clog the filter disc with waxes, and oils, etc. and just will not vacuum filter, it collects a slimey, oily sticky mess on the filter that will just not let the water pass thru..and this is using a strong motorized vacuum source. Better off sticking to the tea bags suspended in a jar of water.

Happy dreaming.

[tregar]

Just wanted to mention that FOAF has just begun to experiment with a home-made magnetic stirrer with stir magnet to aid in the extraction of the polar material from the tea bag--and it works...fill up your empty tea bag with 8 grams of finely crushed material, stapel it shut, suspend it about one inch above the stir magnet in the center of the 1 liter mason jar...tape the string to the side of the jar on the outside to hold it in position. Turn on the stirrer then watch as the polar white material is sucked out of the tea bag into the vortex...you will see a white tornado cloud of pure white actives...you can tell with this method, that indeed the actives are very water soluble...and the vortex pull in the jar pulls it out easily. Every so often, agitate and squeeze the bag against the side of the jar to shift the material around a bit, then put it back in the center of the jar and it will continue to pull the white active material out of the tea bag..and there is a lot of it.

A stirrer can be made out of an old disk drive with stir bar magnet added.

A 40 watt red light can found at any pet shop (used to view reptiles while they are sleeping).

This could likely result in a strong experience since it is very efficient at pulling the polar white milky material (the good stuff) out of the tea bag.

Remember, the white stuff is polar and so is water, so it will be absorbed into the water easily in less than 20 to 30 minutes with stirring.

FOAF only did a 5 minute extraction before without agitation or use of a stir magnet, but plans next time to use a 30 minute extraction, the whole while with the stir magnet vortex pulling out the white active material while leaving the non-polar toxic stuff behind in the tea bag.

It is fun to watch and easy to see that the material that is being pulled out by the stir magnet is white -- it is not brown. It will not pull out any of the toxic materials so long as your extraction is kept to 30 minutes or less. When the stirrer stops pulling out the white/tan actives (and you can see this happening with the aid of a red light pointed at the jar) then it is time to stop, as they have all been pulled out. Your water will be white/off tan. If your water is brown then you have gone too long...but with this stirrer/stir magnet method...it is easy to know when to stop the process because you will see that the tornado of white material will eventually stop after 20 or so minutes...and you have pulled out as much of the polar active material as is possible.

You can add a a squirt or two of lemon juice (or a pinch of tartaric acid) to acidify the water slightly to aid in the extraction of the polar material like hermes did also.

There is little to no nausea if you only extract the white/tan material. With this method you have a visible way of gauging when to stop the stir process, and it is automated.

[cap]

sweet
were there any other side effects tho?

[tregar]

Hi Cap.

FOAF will let you know soon if any vasoconstriction is experienced, though at the 8 gram level this is not likely to be a problem. Won't know till next day off. When a few people posted on this topic, it got my interest back again.

[cap]

lookin forward to hearin how it went!
and a lovely thread, tregar take care

[entheogen23]

Does your FOAF have any details on this home-made magnetic stirrer? Sounds like a useful thing to have. Commerical stirrers are too expensive for casual kitchen chemists.

thanks for the updates!

[cap]

Originally Posted by entheogen23

Does yout FOAF have any details on this home-made magnetic stirrer? Sounds like a useful thing to have. Commerical stirrers are too expensive for casual kitchen chemists.

thanks for the updates!

http://forums.mycotopia.net/showpost...6&postcount=25

[tregar]

Thanks cap, most excellent link to how to make an easy stirrer with a computer fan..good one.

http://whs.fcps.org/nhisim/devices/stirrer/stirrer.html

The link above is how you can make your own, and this is the same stuff that's in those stirrers that cost a couple hundred anyways.

I am amazed how well this works.

You could also use one of those brushless computer fans from radio shack with a magnet mounted to it instead..there are all sorts of different ways of doing it..but definately use a potentiometer/rheostat as shown so you can vary the speed of the motor.

Here is another easy way to do it:
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive...c_stirrer.html

I am also very interested in the anti-depressant effects of this seed brew in the day after and the days following the experience. Hermes posted a few times on this. It may be similar to the "refreshed and energized" experience posted by many ayahuasca users the next day. I have experienced this effect every time on the next day following a good dose LSD experience. The next day, even though getting only a few hours sleep, I would feel "amazing". Colors were brighter, I felt happier, and in good spirits, and anything and everything was "fun" to do. It is possible that these seeds may have similar if even greater effects of this. It is the most amazing feeling the next day, as if one is "born again" fresh and happy. Hermes reported that the next day, colors were also brighter and was in a very good happy mood the day following the experience. Hermes reported the days after the experience, that he felt much more creative than usual and happier too, and that colors seemed slightly more pronounced. This may have something to do with the "resetting of the serotonin system"--and cleaning out of all the garbage in it..who knows?

Has anyone else experienced this? My friends also report the same happy feeling the day after the experience. I notice an increased perception of colors and very good mood along with energetic energy.

FOAF has done some 17 year old blotter acid over the past few months, and the next day has just felt incredible. There is no more acid left, so it's time to check out the seeds and foaf should be able to make a decent comparison of the two, having had a lot of experience with the A many many years ago also. However, it is winter time, so it will be difficult to tell how good the seeds are from many many months ago.