Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts

tregar · 08-23-06, 21:03

This is my first post at Mycotopia. I've been a long time reader however for many years.

Recently I read a book entitled "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006). I found chapter 15 of this book very fascinating as it describes the successful morning glory extract experiments of chemist Peter Webster (who spoke at the Jan 2006 LSD Symposium in honor of Dr. Hofmann).

Peter has an interesting theory about how he was able to produce a mind blowing extract that encompased all of the qualities of a powerful psychedelic experience. My research didn't stop there. Later I discovered that William Moxley, Trakman.du, Stretchman, Dr. D and some others had also discovered how to make an intense, lucid and very visual extract of morning glory seeds.
These same people also mention that the extracts were not only lucid and enjoyable but also were free of nausea and body load symptoms--normally attributed to eating the seeds or using cold-water extractions.

Read on to learn more about this fascinating subject....and the theory proposed by Peter Webster.

Notice in the thread furthur below (from the giganthum LSA thread from the Lycaeum) that Stretchman obtained excellent results from the tincture solution he made....but when he evaporated down his extract to a tar, it was found to be not anywhere near as powerful or enjoyable as the tincture. Perhaps Peter Webster is on to something with his explanation of why the solution extracts are so powerful vs. other forms. He saids that in a solution, the 3 conformations of ergine are formed (usually takes more than an hour or so to reach equilibrium) and that these variants are allowed to reach the brain in an equilibrium state and affect a very powerful psychedelic trip (when prepared as an extract solution) at the brain receptors....theorizing that these 3 variants (hince 3 drugs) are way more powerful than a chemically pure synthesized ergine or iso-ergine (such as Hofmann tried) in inducing what's being described as very lucid and powerful psychedelic experiences by those who have duplicated an extract or solution similar to his.

The chemist Peter Webster created a very powerful morning glory extract syrup that induced a profound psychedelic experience and stated "Ever since it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanantion is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the orginal extracted ergine to the three ergine variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone."

He states that "the equilibrium mixture of ergine and iso-ergine may actually be the psychoactive substance of the kykeon, and of ololiuqui as well. Since ergine spontaneously changes to iso-ergine when in solution, over a period of perhaps several hours, any process to partially hydrolyze the alkaloids of ergot such as our proposed recipe -- or even the Aztec shamans' procedure for extracting ololiuqui -- should result in a mixture of the three states represented here." These are ergine-boat conformation, ergine-chair conformation, and iso-ergine chair conformation.

For more detailed chemical explanantions refer to the brand-new book "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess and the Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006) by Carl A.P. Ruck with Peter Webster (chapter 15).

Stretchman below describes his extract (as Trakman.du also described it over at Erowid) as very powerful, lucid, and visual. In his words, "Preparing a tincture like above will result in a standardized (I mean 'same effect each time') highly lucid trip packed with lively vids."
*By vids, I suppose he means videos or visuals.

He also saids "the tincture provides an experience which would seem to combine the best qualities of a psilocybe mushroom trip with the best qualities of an LSD trip, with zero body load or weird symptoms (aside from the entheogenic state itself)"

Stretchman also saids "I've tried a shit-load of psychedelics, and this is among the best of them, if not THE best.", and "the tincture showed me a magical wonderland of endless vistas and the solid extract stomped a fucking mudhole in my ass." The experiments he did may show the importance of having the product in a solution so that equilibration of ergine/iso-ergine can occur, and thus the powerful activity of the brew.

Peter Webster described his extract: "a few milligrams of this extracted syrup taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by this time I had allready taken high-dose LSD several times."

Trakman.du saids that his tek (use only reagent grade petroleum ether from a chemical supply house) provides a clean, pure, intense and particularly enjoyable experience out of doors in the daytime due to what the sun does. The extract gives you "A complex of various lysergic acid alkaloids which are psychoactive to varying degrees in isolation, but which taken together produce a full blown psychedelic experience no less powerful than that produced by LSD."

Trakman's tek (as many of you may allready know) is found here:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...lory_faq.shtml

However, Trakman states that the many un-inspiring trips reported by people at alt.drugs who used his tek is due to them using Naptha, Zippo, Coleman, or other grades of hardware-store variety petroleum ether. Only reagent grade petroleum ether from a lab supply will work properly--the other lesser grades will dissolve a portion of the LSA's, rendering the final solution very weak or to even have no effects at all, so stick with reagent grade--it's the only one known to work properly these days for the extraction.

Between 1972 and 1983, K. TROUT ate Ipomoea violacea seeds or seed-extract several dozen times with wildly varying results ranging from powerfully colorful visuals to sedative effects.

Bigwood 1979 states that "It seems probable that the psychoptic effects produced by these seeds involves an interaction or synergism between two or more of the chemicals present, Hofmann only evaluated pure alkaloids not mixtures. It is also possible that higher doses of ergine may be more likely to produce visual effects, as was the case with ergonovine."

Jonathan Ott in "Pharmacotheon" page 128 states "Hofmann's description of perceiving the "unreality and complete meaninglessness of the outside world" after taking 2 milligrams of isoergine (Hofmann 1963), however, sounds like the paradoxical depressant effect experienced commonly with threshold doses of psilocybine and other entheogens, and it is possible that isoergine is visionary at higher doses."

Listed below are a few descriptive quotes from authors who experienced powerful visual morning glory trips by preparing the seeds in a manner that for them resulted in potent extracts:

QUOTE: (by anym who used a traditional cold water extraction and also wrote an extensive tek

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The cold water extraction is the better way to go! Remember, water is a highly polar compound. It will only dissolve the desireable polar stuff in the seeds. It will not dissolve the unwanted stuff. So if you soak the seed mush in a fair amount of cold, distilled water (a full glass is what I usually use), the water will dissolve the alkaloids in the seeds, while leaving behind the nasty stuff. It is unnecessary to use the nonpolar solvent because the water will not pick up that nonpolar stuff anyway. That nasty stuff will just stay put in the seed mush.

Remember that oil and water don't mix. Just for educational purposes, take some cooking oil and pour it into a glass of water. The two will separate into layers, with the heavier water on the bottom. The bad stuff is like this oil. It will not go into the water.

So you filter this water and get all of the seed mush out of it. You don't want the seed mush. YOU THROW THE MUSH AWAY!. Don't eat it, or you'll defeat the entire purpose of the extraction!

Factors that will destroy LSA or otherwise mess up the extraction include light, chlorine, heat, possibly other impurities in the water, too much time, too little time, poor filtration, poor grinding, etc. To make sure that no impurities in the water like chlorine will destroy the LSA, use distilled water, or at least boil some water and let it cool until it is cold. The water should be cold. If it is warm, it might dissolve a small amount of the bad stuff and heat will also destroy the LSA. The colder it is, the more the extraction is limited to the most polar compounds. Room temp is probably okay. Do not expose the ground seeds to very much light. Light destroys LSA. You want to filter well to avoid retaining fine mush in suspension in the water. Extract for about 20 minutes.

I will lay out my favorite and simplest method here:

Supplies needed:

seeds, 1 glass, 20 ounces of distilled water, 1 large (family size) empty tea bag or 2-3 smaller ones, Coffee grinder, spoon, bowl, a sifter or splatter screen or something similar, paper towels, stapler, a touch of liquid hand soap.

Procedure:

1. Remove seeds from bags and count the number you would like to use (I recommend at least 400, and at most 600 for the first time)

2. Wash whole seeds briefly to remove any fungicides or other seed coatings. Do this by putting the seeds into a bowl and covering with some cold water. Put just a touch of hand soap in the water. Work the seeds around in the bowl with your fingers for about 10-20 seconds.

3. Rinse seeds. Put them in the sifter or on the splatter screen and rinse with cold tap water until all the soap is gone. (It is probably a good idea not to have them in the water too long, as the water might get into the seeds and remove a little of the alkaloids.)

4. Dry seeds. Do NOT use a blowdryer! Dry them well with paper towels.

5. Once they are dry, grind them pretty thoroughly in a coffee grinder, but not to the point of a fine powder. You want the black seed hulls to remain a little coarse.

6. Put the grounds into the empty tea bags and then staple the tea bags shut. Leave some breathing room in each bag since, when wet, the seed mush will expand and might break the bag if it is too full.

7. Put the tea bags into the glass which you have filled with cold distilled water.

8. Aid the extraction by getting the water into the mush. Some will tend to clump and remain in an air pocket. Use the spoon to submerge the bags and to squeeze them gently against the side of the glass. Also, you can lift and Dunk the bags repeatedly to help extract the LSA.

9. Leave glass to sit in a cool dark place for ten minutes with spoon on top of bags to keep them submerged if they are trying to float.

10. Go back and work on the bags some more with the spoon. Be careful not to tear the bag. If you do tear it and mush leaks out, you will have to filter the water.

11. Leave glass to sit for another ten minutes.

12. Work with spoon some more and then remove the bags and squeeze most of the water that remains in them into the glass.

13. DISCARD BAGS! THROW THEM IN THE TRASH! THE SEED MUSH IS TRASH!

14. Drink water.

"I am not too sure if it helps or not, but on some occasions I put a few squirts of lemon juice into the water to acidify it, possibly aiding alkaloid solubility.

A note on seeds:

You want plenty of seeds. You also want the black ones, like the Heavenly Blue variety. (the Flying Saucers and other light-colored ones are weak) You want fresh seeds. Last year's batch will be weaker. You also want seeds that are not stored in a hot place.

You might experience a little nausea, but nothing too difficult. And if you did everything right and had good seeds, you can expect to feel effects within an hour or an hour and a half.

I usually fast for at least 8 hours before consuming. I don't know what difference it makes.

Always be sure that you are in the proper setting and have the right mindset. Ignore these at your own risk. You could have a very unpleasant experience.

Chances are that you will feel quite different, having a dramatically altered mind. You will also have perceptual changes, like increased pattern recognition in things like the carpet, the walls, or anything really. You will have closed eye visuals, which are enhanced by good music. You might have mild open eye visuals if you consumed a high dose. Usually, even at lower doses, colors will look more vibrant, smells will seem more powerful, slight halos will appear around light sources, everything will seem crisper and brighter. Your pupils will dilate. You might feel some strange body sensations, like mildly achy joints in the knees, a funny feeling in the lower spine, tingling teeth, etc. Your hands will probably feel clumsy and clammy at first.

The experiences induced by Morning Glories can be quite intense, and are nothing to sneeze at. Be sure you are prepared and are psychologically healthy. If you are borderline psychotic, depressed, or manic, stay away!

Avoid really high doses of LSA. LSA causes vasoconstriction, which means that your blood vessels get smaller. This results in lower blood circulation to your extremities, like toes and fingers. If the dose is too high, or it is taken too often, this can have a cumulative effect, and your extremities can go numb and even become gangrenous. With reasonable doses spaced apart at least two weeks, this shouldn't be a problem. But this is one reason that it is a good idea to start with a small dose, to make sure that the vasoconstriction isn't bad. If you have high blood pressure, LSA might not be a good idea. And do not take it in combination with other vasoconstrictive compounds like ephedrine and caffeine. I think that nicotine might be vasoconstrictive as well, but I am not sure about this.

Be safe. And don't do it just to "get f#@ked up." Take a spiritual journey. Learn from it. Explore yourself.

My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!

On other occasions with LSA (I took it while in a less than ideal mind state), I felt like I went to Hell. Everything was empty and awful and terrifying and lonely. I felt like there were worms boring through my brain, eating it. I was a hole. That is the only way to describe it. I felt vacuous. I trembled with horror. Everything felt so incredibly meaningless.

I hope your experiences will take you to nice places. Be careful. Your brain is not a toy. Consider yourself warned."
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QUOTE: (Carl_Ripken at Mycotopia)
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"A friend and i tried the cold water extraction. After Washing and rinsing, we didn't have a coffee grinder,so we wrapped the seeds in tin foil and dropped a 25lb weight on them repeatedly.Thus resulting in a course powder.So we packed the seed into 4 tea bag's then simply dropped them into Slightly less than a gallon of distilled water.My friend and i wanted the lsa experience to happen outdoors,so we grabbed a cd player and some clean drinking water,and off we went. i was skeptical at first, until the lsa cranked up my reality. I had not eaten anything all day so it matabolised into my system quicker.By the time my friend started to trip i think i was peaking.The visuals were amazing, seemingly generating from random math. All throughout the trip i saw complex patterns,but these patterns would take me places. At one point i was in a open air market walkng a cow through its isle's. Other times i saw beautiful architexture, and random people. I felt radiant and peaceful all throughout the trip.Thank you for this Very good and easy to do extraction. I also got a coulple of batches from the same tea bags.As the seeds are a little expensive and i did not want to waste any."
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QUOTE: (from Nogal at the Nook)
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"Yes I know of someone who tried this exact method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffe grinder in place of a stone metate (I think thats what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form(again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin). The only negative reaction experienced was a cramping and spasms of the inner thigh muscles which is mentioned in another post in the botanical forum. The cause of this is unsure, but hopefully someone will clear that up. Hope this is of help to you."
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QUOTE: (from William Moxley, chapter 3 of "Center of the Universe")
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"The extract of Ipomoea violacea that we had prepared radiated power, just sitting there in its flask. A light amber, odorless syrup which, in the darkened laboratory fluoresced brilliantly blue under ultraviolet light, it was an extreme contrast with the series of messy, difficult to purify, dark-colored and discouraging volumes of intermediate sludge we had treated, and brought to mind the Curies and their arduous separation of a few tiny crystals of glowing radium from a mountain of pitchblende. The difficulties had, however, taught us much about ways in which we would modify our processes for future work. As for the extract, the following day would see the first test of its activity, with myself as the guinea-pig. I was by this time hardly a novice in self-administration of my own preparations or in the estimation of what effects they might have. I was, in fact, quite adept at taking most any supposed substance of enlightenment and avoiding nasty complications if the brew turned out to be bogus. On many occasions in New York, more than a little caution had been required to avoid not only the classic "rip-off" but also the inevitable dangers that Prohibition naturally produced. Once, a purported sample of magic mushroom I was offered proved to be only a few wasted store-bought champignons laced with powdered datura seeds. Although hallucinogenic, the experience of datura was not the least insightful, nor did it leave me with an experience which hinted at dimensions normally closed to everyday perception. I spent a few unpleasant hours also with Owsley's famous STP, which in the original dose was far too potent for human consumption. Fortunately I took only a quarter-dose, there having been evidence of difficult times for others with this synthetic drug.
The morning-glory extract provided not a nasty surprise, but a powerful surprise none the less. It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered. Perhaps the methods of our extraction had yielded a product more representative of the shaman's recipe than the preparations obtained by other investigators, who reported only modest psychedelic effects. The experience of that day was hardly modest, from the beginning moments it certainly did not fail to inspire reverence and humility, no matter what the direction to which I managed to guide it. The colors and geometric patterns, the rippling waves so often seen in watching clouds in the sky, the slowing of time and other typical effects so frequently described in the literature had some time ago become only minor and unattended aspects of psychedelic experience for me. Certainly, I still noticed these effects, if I took the trouble to pay attention to them. But the psychedelic experience had become for me far more an arena for the Herculean task of attempting to achieve the truly original perspective for viewing the fundamental questions that man has posed since the beginning of time. It was the task of freeing oneself completely from preconceptions, from habits of thinking that affected the outcome of seeking in unknown and unconscious ways. And of course, it was paradoxical, if not impossible to erase these filters of comprehension completely. To a very significant extent, comprehension consisted of these filters. Nevertheless, the psychedelic experience seemed to go quite a good distance in providing this ability, if one were ready to use it. Particularly the experience of that day."
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QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006)
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"In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times."

"Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone."
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QUOTE: (Peter Webster, page 6 "Mixing the Kykeon")
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"Years ago, with the threat of my impending draft into the U.S. Army for an extended tour of Southeast Asia, I decided to "go on the lam," and departed for Mexico with the intention of researching the distribution and chemistry of some of the famous Central American psychoactive plants such as the ololiuqui. It was during the course of these investigations that I prepared astonishingly powerful extracts of ololiuqui, alluded to above."
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QUOTE: (Peter Webster, page 4 "Mixing the Kykeon")
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"Although several self-experiments with ololiuqui (seeds of two species of morning glory) or with its purified alkaloids ergine and isoergine have been inconclusive (see the mentioned examples in part II of this paper), I can personally assure readers that the alkaloids of ololiuqui are, when prepared correctly, quite capable of producing the entire range of powerful psychedelic effects. Ergine and its stereoisomer isoergine are the two principal psychoactive compounds of ololiuqui, and also the major alkaloids found in C. paspali, yet they are not found in C. purpurea."
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QUOTE: (Dr. D in alt.drugs newsgroup, topic "morning glory notes")
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Dr. D from dejanews or googlegroups describes his extract in these words: "I took a large dose of my extract (I had purified it further using a back-extraction into chloroform, evaporation, and re-formation of the salt form), and it resulted in a very powerful experience indeed (this was back in the 60's). In some meaningful way, I felt different, and still do!"
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Dr. D notes these tips in the thread "morning glory notes":

" an189...@anon.penet.fi wrote about morning glory experiences, and
was questioned by jell...@jax.jaxnet.com about drying.

>... I know they came untreated because there
>were some tiny rocks mixed in with the seeds.

I dont see the connection here, but mg seeds that are treated to
avoid rotting before germination must be labelled as such. Check out
seed packs at the same stand: treated seeds are labelled with large
usually purple colored warnings, the law. There is no conspiracy to
poison a few aging hippies (or new trippers) with secretly doctored
mg seeds.

>I decided to get a sample of the effect...

Your experiences are practically a blow by blow replica of those
reported by Humphrey Osmond and ott early (1950's 1960's)
experimenters. Very typical reactions

>My next step would be to attempt the extraction which is documented in
>the Morning Glory FAQ. So I took 700 seeds and ground them up into a
>power in my coffee grinder.

It has not been stressed enough that the grinding is very important.
After the coffee grinder you might try a mortar and pestle grinding,
or an apparatus used to grind flour. Very vigorous grinding is
necessary to ensure that the embryo of each seed is well pulverized,
for nearly the total alkaloid content is in this small and rubbery
part of the seed.
> I then put MG powder into a small glass
>container and decided that I would use starting fluid as my first
>solvent.

Since you found that this solvent added an aftertaste to the extract,
I question the necessity of this step. In the original research
paper describing the extraction of mg seeds, the pet ether
preliminary extraction was simply to remove fats and oil from the
ground seed material so that these products would not interfere with
the ANALYSIS of the alkaloids which was carried out by paper or thin
layer chromatography. I doubt whether the pet ether extraction removes
anything that interferes with either the alcohol extraction or with the
experience.

>Next I used EverClear (150 proof) as my alcohol solvent. I mixed the
>ground seeds with 4 shots of alcohol and let this mixture soak for 4
>days.

I extracted a large quantity of seeds with 80% ethanol, to which I
had added a small amount of tartaric acid. Since the alkaloids are
basic and form salts with tartaric acid, the extraction is improved
into alcohol-water mixtures. Stirring the mixture in a mixmaster
blender at high speed also helps. And if you can rig up a simple
vacuum filtration unit, the filtering will be easy, and allow an
easy second extraction of the seed cake. All this can be accomplished
in an hour or two, I would avoid leaving crude extracts for days, as
the alkaloids are very sensitive to decomposition. Also avoid, if you
want to evaporate some or most of the alcohol, doing it in a way
that exposes it to heat and especially bright light. Putting it in
sunlight will kill it. Put it in a jar in a pan of warm water and
gently blow a stream of dry compressed air at it. Look at the extract
in a dark room with a common "blacklight". It should fluoresce bright
blue. "

William Moxley (from chapter 3 of "The Center of the Universe") describes his extract as glowing bright blue under a black light and "A powerful surprise, It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered."

Here is the beginning part of the giganthum thread on LSA over at the Lycaeum (from 1995 or so):

QUOTE:
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"EDITED BY STRETCHMAN: The goal of this thread, as it now exists, is to narrow down a particular hypothetical means of extracting lysergic acid amides from the seeds of Ipomoea tricolor (morning glories) and similar plants. Although many theoretical processes have been voiced by this community, there is no established "TEK" contained within this thread. Myself and other Lycaeumites continue to speculate on the best way for such an extraction to be accomplished IN THEORY. Ultimately one hopes to be able to develop a hypothetical method in which the hypothetical average Joe could release the full power of this plant using common household materials instead of dangerous, environmentally unfriendy NP solvents and suchlike. Essentially, this thread, being as lengthy as it is, still should be read in its entirety, as it is still a work in progress at the time of this writing. Please keep in mind that in most places it is illegal to work with this plant in this manner, so if you choose to post here (or anywhere else on Lycaeum) choose your words carefully.

I occasionally edit out any fallacious assumptions I tend to make from time to time. However, I'm sure some do exist. Therefore this document is to be considered fallible, until a TEK can be established.

I am inclined to edit out my more arrogant statements in my posts, as well as posts that were made under the influence of excessive alcohol. However I view this document with a certain degree of sentimentality because it was my second post ever on these forums and I have grown slightly attached to it. I am therefore hesitant to remove its uglier portions, basically on principle alone.

(Cruisin' on the Poopship)

current listening:
Ween - Live at Stubb's - Austin TX - 45 min. version of L.M.L.Y.P.
Grateful Dead - "China Rider"
The Raincoats - Moving

Author's note; this document has been heavily plagiarized by me. I owe gratitude to an unnamed source who posted it god-knows-where around 1995 or so, the days of my flaming youth. Were it not for this individual, this shit could not occur. Flame me, sue me, or whatever, but I won't divulge my source. This is partly due to my unwillingness to incriminate anyone, partly due to I seriously don't remember where I found this. So kudos to you, anonymous researcher. May your feces smell like roses and may you lie with innumerable houris in the afterlife etc. etc. blah blah. This is destined for a certain forum so if you're still around, post something if you're really pissed off that I took such liberties with your work. I just want to get the word out and I'd credit you if I could, but that's not really cool, now is it?

Now, to the work at hand.
I have noticed a tendency for these forums to be filled with misinformation and general ignorance, especially about the subject of LSA's (lysergic acid amides).

1. They (LSA's) are not LSD, although, in my opinion, they work much better.
2. They (LSA's) are just as illegal to possess as LSD (ie. highly so) when in the LSA stage -so possession of the seeds required is not illegal (up to a certain quantity), but possession of the extract is (only if the pigs know what it is).
3. A water-based extract from the seeds, although the preferred method of indigenous ("primitive") people, is not necessarily the best. When one goes this route, one encounters the chance of the following;

-a feeling of nausea due to certain compounds in the seeds
_a reduction of trippy potential due to these same compounds

This phenomenon is most likely responsible for the negative reviews of LSA's currently viewable in Erowid's trip reports. It seems like nobody knows what he/she is doing!!! Grrr!!! Rant!!!

Staying true to the methodology used by indigenous ("primitive") peoples is highly admirable, EXCEPT when one voluntarily ingests something harmful along with the desired entheogen, goddamnit!

That said, the following method is probably not for purists. Although the end product is one of the best "hallucinogens" I have ever ingested, if not THE best - and I've taken a shitload, please keep in mind that all this took place about ten years ago and I am now a hermit, (as of several years back), devoted entirely to my sobriety, and I could not possibly encourage anyone to follow this recipe, as this would possibly violate laws, and probably get someone wasted in exquisite fashion, which is "wrong" - or so I infer from the existing propaganda available on the subject.

Now, to business;

-Acquire a large quantity of morning glory seeds. Keep in mind that 500 seeds equals one decent dose. Experiment on your own to find the gram/seed ratio which I have long since forgotten. Therefore, supply yourself accordingly (this could get expensive unless you grow your own). The following seeds have been used to awesome effect:

Heavenly Blue... yeah! Nice!
Pearly Gates
Flying Saucers

Choose organically grown! Either that or spend a long time washing your seeds with dish soap, and that method is not exactly foolproof for ridding your seeds of any extracurricular poisons the nice people at the seed company have seen fit to include (!!!).

-Also invest in some Petroleum Ether. This goes by the name of "Naptha" or "varnish and paint maker's Naptha", available (last I checked) at (large hardware store) and other places. NOT to be confused with diethyl ether, which is some bad shit, has to be disposed of by the bomb squad, etc. Don't fuck with that, get yourself some "pet. ether". Ostensibly free from aduterants, pet. ether is a handy solvent to have around the house.

-Now, get ahold of the highest proof alcohol you can possibly obtain. Clear Spring grain alcohol is one of my favorites (180 proof) but the quality of the end product rests upon the highest proof alcohol you can get your hands on! Reagent grade ethanol, or some 200 proof shit from some reputable moonshiner (better make damn sure he/she's reputable, don't want lead poisoning from some refurbished auto part that has found new lfe as part of someone's still, add'tl info avail. online, utfse y'all).
In a related note, 151 Rum is not recommended by my source. He/she seems to think that a 100 proof beverage is preferred over any 151 rum. Hmm? is it because rum has other shit dissolved in it that makes an extraction with 151 undesirable? I do not know. However, bigger is better, get some 180+ proof alcohol and go nuts, peoples. No half-measures here.

Okay, here we go.

-Grind seeds to powder. If you have an espresso grinder, awesome. (certain coffee outlet) sells a "burr grinder" that should work, although that shit is expensive. Hypothetically, one should have a friend that works at (coffee outlet) and could appropriate one extralegally. I have had reasonable success with a regular coffee grinder. Pulse at no more than ten seconds at a time, (due to heat, and wear and tear on the machine), shaking during grind so that all the particles are evenly ground. Grind fine!!!!

-place the seed powder into a jar- (jar #1). Cover with pet. ether. The guideline here is "can't use too much (pet. ether), can use too little." 500 ml/ 500 seeds seems to be the basic rule, although a little extra ether can't hurt.

-put the lid on the jar. Shake like crazy. Let sit for 20 minutes, shaking as much as you see fit.

-shake jar, then filter contents of the jar by pouring through coffee filter into second jar. I find a strainer (diam. 6" or so, equipped with coffee filter) useful. Maybe pouring contents or jar 1 into a strainer with a filter in it over a glass pie plate, then transfering contents of the pie plate to jar #2, maybe that would help, certainly couldn't hurt.

-if you like, save the filtered ether. You can get at least five more processing cycles out of it. Just don't drink it, please, for fuck's sake.

-most importantly, SAVE THE FILTER PAPER WITH SEED POWDER ON IT!

-let the filter with the seed powder in it dry THOROUGHLY. This could take several days.

-in the interim, clean jar #1 THOROUGHLY

-once the seed powder has dried, transfer this to the sparkly-clean jar #1. Add 2-3oz. of alcohol per 500 seeds. Let this sit for three days, shake it if you like.

-filter the resulting substance. Discard the seed powder on the filter. Keep the alcoholic liquid for use.

RESULTS;

-Drink the alcoholic liquid. This is what is known as a tincture. 1-2oz. is standard for a decent mind-opening trip.

ALTERNATELY: "the anarchist cookbook method", with refinements

-evaporate the alcohol THOROUGHLY, preferably in a glass pie plate. Keep away from dust and other shit. This may take several days. Mild heat is okay, but not recommended. Scrape the resulting goo off the plate. Encapsulate. Two capsules is enough for a crazy trip. If this type of solid extraction is desired, one could use isopropanol or methanol in place of the alcohol mentioned above... evaporate it down THOROUGHLY, ecapsulate and then ingest. DO NOT DRINK ANY SOLUTION MADE WITH ISOPROPANOL OR METHANOL!!!!!!!! VERY UNHEALTHY!!!!!!!

PRO'S AND CON'S

-the liquid extract will result in a wild, lucid trip, sort of like LSD but more visual. It is quite possible to do some intense reading on this plant; ie. The Oxford Book of English Verse or Jung's Man And His Symbols. I remember dosing at night, and looking at the xmas tree with wonder. I was also intrigued by the concept of circles, and toyed with the idea of rearranging the living room furniture into a circle. This plant gives you some strong-ass feng-shui. However, the prime time for this particular plant ally is morning. So, if you are still awake tripping, the sunlight streaming from the window will do magickal things. My source says to dose at dawn for maximum communion with this fascinating plant.

-The solid extract might as well be an entirely different substance entirely. I shared some of this extract with my friend (we dosed at night), 2 capsules each. It comes on like mushrooms; a very disorienting high initially. At first, my friend (no stranger to the world of psychedelics) accused me of poisoning him! At least at first, before he settled in, pulled out his drum machine, and made simple beats to which he turned the delay up all the way so that the echoes of each drum hit made new beats, each based off the echoes of the previous, so sublime! ...hard to explain but VERY TRIPPY. The solid extract discombobulates one's senses before leveling off to a powerful trip somewhat akin to mushrooms with less visual aspect. I suspect that the tincture is far more bioavailable than the solid, wherein the solid extract takes time to be broken down by one's body, like mushrooms, and the trip itself reacts accordingly. Hard to move, hard to talk, but still tripping in divine fashion.

Keep in mind, this all happened about 3+ years ago. I don't currently have anything incriminating or otherwise uncool at my current place of residence. Hell, I could have made up this entire thing, being a pathological liar and all.

OK guys, what do you have to say about this shit? This is by far the best LSA extraction info available. The holy grail if you will. Anyone else done this? Anyone care to flame me with ridiculous disrespect? Refinements, corrections, etc. are all welcome.

I wish I was a' headin' out... on a northbound train...

------------------

-If memory serves me right, the erowid file on this tells one how to make a solid extract only, and does not go into the benefits of various processing methodologies. My seed/dose info is pretty tight as well; I stand behind that shit. Plus you get mini experience reports, on both the tincture and the solid. Yeah, the chemistry's basically the same at erowid, but I like to think my explanation is a little more thorough. Plus, you get to try to read this information through my charming fucking personality.

-Preparing a tincture like above will result in a standardized (I mean "same effect each time") highly lucid trip packed with lively vids. For a clumsy comparison, visualize your best 2-10 hit acid trip ever. Now, multiply the effects by two. Remove unwanted physical effects, nasty bodily sensations, feelings of paranoia and dysphoria, and the "cloudy head" confusion and inability to concentrate associated with the typical acid buzz. Add vids, esp. rainbows everywhere. Add the shroomy "organicness" -like where trails seem to swirl in in from some mysterious nexus, spiral around a couple times like seawater, and disappear back to whence they came (a pitifully pathetic description of this marvelous phenomenon).

-It is only with this method that this plant can be used to its fullest potential, with the least wear and tear on the human ingesting it.

-It will take about 8-10 hours for this experience to run its course.

-I thought of combining this with psilocybe mushrooms. I tried hard to make tinctures; none remained active. Maybe there is a way, maybe not. For further experiments, I would (were this legal and if I had any interest in doing this) simply try eating a cylindrical piece of solid extract the length of a wine cork and slightly less than the thickness of one's pinky (probably the psychoactive content of 1000 seeds, but of course may vary) along with 1/16-1/8 oz. of respectable mushrooms, depending on how "respectable" they are. Or alternately, 1/16 oz. of a somewhat fresh batch of "respectable" mushrooms plus two fl.oz. of tincture. This may provide something akin to the overwhelming gnosis of the fabled mushrooms + acid experience,(rumored to be a dangerous combo, but a real barrel of monkeys on those warm summer nights).

-This extraction can also be performed on Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds. I have no information on this, having never done it. My source did not divulge this.

-An extraction performed in the manner described in the initial post produced no nausea whatsoever. In fact it was the cleanest and most interesting trip SWIM had ever taken. To reiterate, SWIM would consider a theoretical extraction like this hypothetically quite feasible and pleasurable were it legal, apart from questions of NP solvent purity.

Ye Stretchman

*********************

The following shorter reports are from those that may not have used the extracts above but none the less have some interesting observations to relate:

Mezza (Mycotopia): "First attempt - 9g Heavenly Blues - crushed the seeds with a hammer and did a cold water extraction. The water didnt taste too bad. Mixing the wet seed pulp and eating it w/Lemon Yogurt was bad

Took about 2 hours to come on with a good 45 minutes of considerable nausea. After the nausea passed, excellent trip. Great, LSD-like visuals (but slower) and very lucid. Great body high, music was fantastic.

2nd time - 9g of Flying Saucers in a cold water extraction. Minor visuals, but a very auditory trip. Was by himself on this one and felt a little spooky. A good trip, but not anything compared to the first one.

3rd time - HBWR seeds w/Naptha wash and alcohol extraction. Went through the whole process and made that alcohol tincture. If I remember correctly, 10mL of tincture would have been equal to 10 seeds. 1/2 teaspoon dose (2.5 seeds) produced a nice euphoria that was amplified by MJ. A full tsp produced a great trip, with no nausea (save for one member of the group) - mild visuals and 'digital' patterns and tracers. Trip lasted about 4 hours, with some heavy-duty lethargy at the end. Still, did not compare to the first Heavenly Blue water extraction.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piper methysticum (bluelight): "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing.

Next, I ordered some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. With eight seeds, the visuals were again, amazing. With twelve seeds, I had little visual effect at all. ..At least nothing I could make sense out of. With six seeds, again, no visuals. This I found to be strange, and I also noticed that I enjoyed the Morning Glory seeds more despite the part of eating a handful of seeds. However, through all of this, Morning Glory has become one of my favorite psychedelics of all."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bluedolphin: "Nah I get some impressive visuals off around 200 seeds. I've even had kaleidescopic vision from ~225 seeds. Granted I tend to get more visuals than most people, but at your dose I'm not surprised at all that you had some strong visuals."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DJAngrE: "oh hell yeah, i've had major kaleidoscopic vision (but only when i close my eyes) i've actually had the strongest OEVs of any drug i've tried including mushrooms... LSA is the best music drug in my opinion, next time maybe take a couple hits of weed (with a much smaller dose of seeds of course) i promise it'll be just as sweet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
human: "I tried out LSAs for the first time recently and I found them to be the most comfortable substance I've ever been on. While I don't have that much experience (mdma, mushrooms, 2C-I), I enjoyed the somtic aspects of LSA much more than the other substances I've tried. It seems you also found them quite comfortable.

And yes, I believe LSA and MDMA are contraindicated. LSAs constrict blood vessels, and mdma raises blood pressure/heartrate. Bad combo.

I also agree with the suggestion to smoke a bit of cannabis to ease the nausea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PimpTurk: "LSA is a really great drug..with roughly 200 heavenly blue seeds i saw ganesha morphing on my friends wall...not to mention all the mind bending breathing every object was doing.....and yes the comeup is EXTREMELY euphoric , it ranks up their will rolling in my opinion.....im thinking about trying them again VERY soon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrNice: "The pesticides wont kill you, they will make you puke a lot though.

Im pretty lucky with MG seeds, my highest dose was 500 and even then i didnt get any nausea or leg cramps. I normally stick to around 250, i'll get a nice 7hr trip from them...the best way i can describe how i feel on them is serene. Everything feels so good, colours are brighter, music sounds richer, plus their cheap & easy to get hold of.

Usually have an LSA trip about once a week. One of the best effects is that you dont seem to get a comedown with them, its more of an afterglow. Your not tripping but you feel really relaxed and content.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would just like to add that Peter Webster had the following to say (August 2006) in reference to the thread over at bluelight concerning morning glory seed chemistry:

QUOTE:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading it through, I see two misconceptions that could be corrected.

morninggloryseed says
"I assume that the 'boat' vs the 'chair' thing is
referring to d-ergine vs l-ergine. D-ergine is
flat, while l-ergine is not. Also very
interesting to hear Owsley's comments about LAOH
(he refers to it as 'hydroxymethyllysergamine'
but I am certain it is either a misprint or a
mistake as the chemical is
a-hydroxyethyl-d-lysergamide.) I had long ago
theorized that this may be the real active gem in
the seeds. Animal tests all point to it being an
active psychedelic.and it is indeed the closest
thing to LSD found in nature.far closer than
d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him
that LAOH is very LSD-like. I wonder if Hoffman
has notes in the Sandoz library about his
experiments. Maybe they are still being
translated. I am buying this book for certain."

the boat and chair forms are just alternative
conformations of the D-ring, not different
isomers (d- vs l- has the hydrogen at position 5 going in the other direction.)

The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be
psychoactive actually can never reach the brain,
since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine
and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed
into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods.

vbest regards,
peter

and....

Quote:
>Do you mind if I post your comments to the thread?

Please do. Also a comment about the graphs: The question here is what
conditions is the extract subjected to (and for how long) before (and
maybe even during) the HPLC? For instance, some researchers believe
that perhaps all the content of MG seeds exists as the
d-hydroxyethylamide, and it is the extraction/purification/testing
procedures which then produce the APPARENT result that the alkaloids
are ergine, isoergine, and maybe still some hydroxyethylamide. Thus
your testing procedure might also be subject to this problem. A test
that would fill us in on some important data would be to have the
rate of epimerisation of ergine to isoergine in basic, neutral, and
acidic media (and yes, the equilibrium is not far from 50/50). For
this, you'd need to separate one epimer with chromatography, and then
measure optical rotation over time. A little tricky to get it right
unless ypu've done similar testing before. LSD takes a week to
equilibrate even in basic conditions (to 88:12), whereas lysergic
acid itself is almost instant in strong base (to 85:15). Prof Nichols
believes the ergine-isoergine equilibration is rapid even in body
fluids, I suspect it is not, and that this is one reason for the
uncertainties we deal with in the book. But no one's got the hard data!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End QUOTE
----------------------------------------------------------
Important Notes:

Chapter 15 of the book is about Peter Webster's experiments with morning glory seeds, and later with ergotamine tartrate (Gynergen) tablets. Page 180 contains drawings which attempt to visualize the ergine and its epimer in their true three-dimensional states as ergine-chair, ergine-boat, and iso-ergine chair conformations.

Ergine (as opposed to the synthesized chemical that Hofmann sampled) always occurs with its epimer, and it is unstable, oscillating between its dichotomous orientatins. The combination of the oscillating ergine and its mirrored iso-ergine appears to be more psychoactive than either in isolation. This is why Hofmann's experiments with the synthesized chemical were unsatisfactory.

Stretchman saids "I've tried a shit-load of psychedelics, and this is among the best of them, if not THE best.", and "the tincture showed me a magical wonderland of endless vistas and the solid extract stomped a fucking mudhole in my ass." The experiments he did may show the importance of having the product in a solution so that equilibration of ergine/iso-ergine can occur, and thus the powerful activity of the brew.

Trakman du also makes it very clear that only lab-grade reagent grade petroleum ether should be used with his tek (also note that Stretchman used an extremely clean grade of petroleum ether back in his experiments before 1995, and this grade without impurities appears to be no longer available in hardware stores). Trakman believes that other grades such as over the counter naptha, zippo, coleman etc will all dissolve a portion of the lsa's, rendering the final solution or brew to be very weak, or even to have no effects at all. Stretchman also points out that only everclear should be used in the final solution, so as to have the lowest percentage of water in the product or else nausea can still result.

Dr. D points out that a pecentage (about 5%) or so of tartaric acid (used in beer making, wines, etc.) can be added to the alcohol solution. Since the alkaloids are basic and form salts with tartaric acid, the extraction is improved into alcohol-water mixtures. Stirring the mixture in a mixmaster blender at high speed also helps. And if you rig up a simple vacuum filtration unit, the filtering of the seed cake will be easy.

QUOTE: (Danbian in the Stretchman LSA thread

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A couple little notes...LSA's (unlike some other trippy alkaloids) actually exist as salts in the plant material, so an initial pull with an acidic solution wouldn't be too effective (unless you were using a stronger acid that would break the alkaloids from the naturally occurring salts). Instead, one could defat as a first step, then basify and continue w/ the extraction.

Also, if the alkaloids are left in free base form as per the last step of the procedure, they would have to be gobbled up pretty soon. If you wanted to store them for any length of time, you'd want to end up with salts, which are much more stable (If I'm not mistaken the tartrate salt is best for this purpose)."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The final solution should glow bright blue under a blacklite states Webster, Moxley and Dr. D.

*So far I have never read of anyone on the net doing a simple blacklight test on their final solution to see if it still contained amides other than the 3 people mentioned above.

Ergot Alkaloids and Ergolines from Convolvulacea:

Chemical Name Alternative Names
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
d-Lysergic acid amide (Ergine)
d-iso-Lysergic acid amide (iso-Ergine)
Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine
iso-Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine
Ergonovine (Ergometrine)
Ergonovinine (Ergometrinine)
Chanoclavine-I
Chanoclavine-II
Penniclavine
Elymoclavine
Agroclavine

-----------------------------------------------------------
If Stretchman and Trakman.du were still around I would ask them to describe their trips in even more detail---What sorts of visuals did they see during the trips? Did they see geometric patterns, landscapes, architecture, or similar. Stretchman describes his tincture as creating "endless vistas" of visions, and as even being more visual to him than LSD. This is a fascinating subject also in light of the theories proposed by Peter Webster with support from others (refer to beginning of chapter 15 of the book).

*Please do tell more if anyone here at Mycotopia has had visual/audial trips off the morning glory seeds.

odrorir · 08-23-06, 21:16

Cold water LSA extracts seem to get mostly d-lsergic acid, which is very sedative in nature. I hope to get some reagent grade naptha some day for this reason though.

golly · 08-23-06, 21:17

Welcome to topia...!..that's a hella first post Tregar....

tregar · 08-23-06, 21:24

Thank you for the welcome! Reagent grade petroleum ether is easy to get but it is expensive. I hope to report my own experiences which I will only be dreaming of course at some distant future date. I highly recommend reading the book if you can get your hands on it in the meantime though. One of my favorite new books is the "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" (900 pages) by Christian Ratsch--absolutely beautiful--highly recommended. Reading the book by Carl A.P. Ruck and Peter Webster (chapter 15) really sparked my interest again in the often controversial and debated subject of ololiuqui and ipomoea tricolor (violacea) seeds.

I have past experience (back in the early 1990's) with over a hundred hits of low dose, medium dose, and high dose LSD. I also tried panaeolus mushrooms a few times back in that period. On high dose acid, I saw visuals of pristine Egyptian pyramids when they were new, and the sand was glistening all around them, also of DNA type spiral material like dragons and snakes, as well as animated multi-colored fractal-patterned globes spinning in mid-air (incredible!) and many other things too numerous to mention. This was also a very intense mystical and religious experience remembered in the glow of blacklights. The pan cyans resulted in my seeing more of an alien scenery--for example, 2 "Stropharia" flat, electric, and wavy type beings (a pair of them) and when I passed by a crystal shop on the street, all of the crystals formed drooping alien-heads (really cool.). I also saw a form of futuristic hiero-glyphic type writing of some kind in green color wrapped around my legs one other time while reclining in a lawn chair out in the sunlight.
That about sums up my psychedelic experiences.

golly · 08-23-06, 22:08

Just read the whole post ...Very informative and tantelizing...The use of the highest grade of Pet. Ether is proly a wise choice for this work...I'm temped really tempted...heh...Thanx for that...

odrorir · 08-24-06, 09:39

Any store bought naptha has resulted in a yellow liquid for me that was pleasant, yet not nearly as strong as eating the whole seeds. I still like it better than water extracts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golly

Just read the whole post ...Very informative and tantelizing...The use of the highest grade of Pet. Ether is proly a wise choice for this work...I'm temped really tempted...heh...Thanx for that...

ignorant monkey · 08-24-06, 09:52

what about ethyl(everclear) or ethyl+water(vodka) extracts?
is either effective and comparable to the 'full seed experience', and does either noticeably reduce the nause/bad effects?

odrorir · 08-24-06, 10:04

I have done an everclear extraction, but I think the raw material had degraded too much to really do anything. All it did was put me to sleep although the dreams were nice.

Alcohol should extract abouyt the same things as water in theory, but my chemistry is getting rusty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ignorant monkey

what about ethyl(everclear) or ethyl+water(vodka) extracts?
is either effective and comparable to the 'full seed experience', and does either noticeably reduce the nause/bad effects?

Hippie3 · 08-24-06, 10:14

great thread, very informative.

mycobri · 08-24-06, 10:43

Great post!

Quote:

*Please do tell more if anyone here at Mycotopia has had visual/audial trips off the morning glory seeds.

i have had a very successful experience with about 300 Heavenly Blue seeds. i had rinsed them, patted them dry and ground them in a coffee grinder. then 1/2 of the powder was left to soak in 100 proof vodka, and the other 1/2 was soaked in spring h20- both in the freezer. They were shaken every 1/2 hour for about 4 hours. Then both liquids were srained, combined and mixed with oj.
after the drink was consumed, i got a strong nausea, smoked to settle the stomach and layed down. i fell asleep for 4 hours. When i awoke i was in another place. i looked at the track-lighting and there were halos and diamond prisms. i realized i was now tripping and i smiled big. i went out to the tv room and layed on the couch near my dog. i listened to large bugs bounce off the house with echoes and reverb. the auditory hallucinations were incredible. what must have been a racoon, sounded like a 100 pound animal jumping on the roof. the pillow i rested my head on was actually a plush (stuffed) version of my dogs face. i stared at it amazed. all fabrics, sheets and blankets had faces in them. i had no intention of getting up or moving around. i do not remember any cev's, or leg pains. i fell back asleep and woke up a happy camper.
i have not done them since, but i have since cultivated them with great sucess, and recently prepared a 2oz. ethenol extraction from my own seeds. thanks for reading.

robman1 · 08-24-06, 16:20

So I see you are a lycaeum browser as well tregar.

http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php/topic,4167.0.html

Thats a good thread if you are looking for a lot of info.

golly · 08-24-06, 18:42

I'm wondering about the risk level from purchasing reagent grade pet ether
Is this a "watched" chemical...

tregar · 08-24-06, 20:41

Cool trip report mycobri. thanks for that.

Thanks for the comment hippie3, and to all who have posted.

Yes I'm a lycaeum/nook/bluelight member/browser too. But if you want to know the truth, Mycotopia is my favorite!

Thanks for posting the link to the gigathum LSA thread robman1, as it is difficult for non-members to locate...due to not being able to use the lycaeum search function without being a member...and it is after all deeply buried in the forum as it took me a very long time to locate (before I was a member).

*Notice what Stretchman has to say about everclear vs. vodka as the alcohol
of choice for the final tincture:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"it seems that one compound can be removed almost entirely with the pet ether, and the other is only present in any water found in whichever potable alcoholic solvent is used for making the final tincture. This is why it is important to use the purest possible alcohol for formulating the tincture; lower levels of water mean lower doses of "undesirables". I tried this with 100 proof vodka (many years ago, etc). This solution was not terribly strong and left me with a distinct feeling of nausea; not really where I wanted to be. 180 proof grain alcohol works wonders."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*This is what Stretchman had to say about "only alcohol/water mix extractions":
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:Originally posted by TWENTYXINSANE:
Ya think I could get decent results using nothing but 190proof Everclear and skip the Naptha, it sketches me out? You said 180 proof worked wonders but did you first do a Naptha wash or use it alone?

Thanks again

Peace

Stretchman replied:

"190 proof?!?! Go for it (this suggestion void where prohibited by law)!!!! I would strongly encourage the naptha wash though!
I used a naptha wash each time this extraction was performed. I would do a naptha wash first to weed out "undesirable" chemicals in the seeds. Even if the "undesirables" were inert rather than (slighty) malicious, the goodies would be more readily absorbed by the alcohol, if the solute is just goodies and not extraneous matter found in the seed. This means a more refined ("better") end product. Also, skipping the naptha wash will make the nausea factor more pronounced (way more so than a water extraction) and by the same token potentiate the weird effects from the other "undesirable" compound. The alcohol focuses these side effects into sharp relief when these compounds are in solution, probably making a person very sick, uncomfortable, and not *tripping* by any definition."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*This is what Stretchman had to say about using store-bought Naptha:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My associate followed the above extraction instructions using naptha bought at a local hardware store (Crown brand, if I can say that here). He evaporated the seed mash for three full days on layers of paper towels, in front of a fan, stirring the seeds several times a day. After three days the seeds were totally dry and there was no trace of naptha when smelled, just a pleasant, mildly nutty smell. After completing the extraction into 190 proof grain alcohol, he tried it out, mixing the grain with cranberry juice (Great mixer, BTW!) To his horror, when he downed this mix there was a distinct PETROLEUM AFTERTASTE. Well, he didn't go through all that trouble just to let that stop him, so he tried to forget about it and enjoy the experience. On the plus side, the first four or five hour were very pleasant indeed, with mild prismatic visuals, bright colors, and deep mind expanding thoughts, and an overall feeling of goodness. On the down side, the next three DAYS consisted of headache, nausea, dizziness, visual distortion (not the good kind), fatigue, sleeplessness, stomach irritation, loss of appetite, and a general feeling of, "I am a dumbass, I poisoned myself, maybe I will die." (so says my associate) He feels all right now, but who know if there will be negative effects down the road.

Just a word to the wise, from the unwise. Good luck!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Nogal had this to say about HBWR seeds vs. morning glory seeds:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I agree more test definately need to be done in this area, but its possible that pure LSA is alot different than whats in morning glory. Experentially HBWR seeds and morning glory shouldnt even be compared to one another, which indicates that there are other compounds at work. Morning glory is much more similiar to LSD in its visual properties than HBWR, which is more body oriented."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a huge list of chemicals about a page long that include things like dmso, petroleum ether, etc somewhere on the net...can't remember if it is exactly watched, but I do know that it is not restricted, like the other hundred or so chemicals in its category. It can be found at your local science hobby supplier/chem shop or elsewhere for doing dried ground beef (or other food product) fat analysis to determine its lipid content for example with science fair projects.

The tartaric acid (used to balance acidity of wine in wine/beer making hobbies) also sounds promising added at a 5% or so ratio to the final everclear extraction pull to aid in converting LSA material to stable long-lasting salt form. Tartaric acid is sometimes used in making an imitation lemon juice, or as a substitue for lemon juice.

I would really like to contact Peter Webster via email someday and get his comments on what his trips were like...I want details! One of the advanced members at bluelight (seems like a genius chromatograher too) was able to contact him and get his comments noted in the 1st post above concerning a few things. Chemistry is great and all but I want a trip report with that!

The kykeon is the active ingredient of the potion which inspired the great philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, artists, architects and poets of ancient Greece who we recognise as the progenitors of Western civilisation, the sacrament which was revelation for these greatest of the greats was an analogue of LSD: A naturally-produced lysergic acid alkaloid whose effects were identical to those of that "greatest of all evils," that "diabolical drug which destroyed a generation," that "fly now, die later drug," that "greater threat to the nation than the Vietnam War," (to quote merely a few of the more tame epithets that have been hurled at the revered sacrament of Eleusis in its newly discovered form.)

ignorant monkey · 08-24-06, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by tregar

The tartaric acid (used to balance acidity of wine in wine/beer making hobbies) also sounds promising added at a 5% or so ratio to the final alcohol extraction pull to aid in converting LSA material to stable long-lasting salt form. Tartaric acid is sometimes used in making an imitation lemon juice, or as a substitue for lemon juice.

could something else more easily obtainable be substituted and used to the same effect, such as lemon juice or vinegar?

tregar · 08-24-06, 21:25

I don't know whether or not lemon juice would work. All I know is that LSD is usually converted to the "tartrate" by tartaric acid. Citrate or tartrate probably doesn't matter as they are both structure promoting salts. Someone with a better chemical background would need to chime in here and answer this one.

tregar · 08-24-06, 22:13

Here is a short summary of what went on at the LSD symposium:

In January at the Conference in Basel, a speaker Peter Webster brought up his experiments w/ extractions of Morning Glories. Which involved a simple basified extract (I'll detail below) of Morning Glories which yielded ~2mL of a light colored syrup that flouresced bright blue under UV (which is characteristic for for simple lysergic acid amides) with ~2mg of this syrup was obtained a full on psychedelic experience remarked equally as strong as high dose LSD trips he had experienced. At the conference he goes on to hypothesize that a ergine/isoergine basified solution was likely the Kykeon of Eleusis. Though he admits there remains uncertainty about ergine/isoergine and their psychoactivity in isomeric equilibrium; as such it remains to be pointed out why some people with some preparations HIT THE BULL'S EYE! and others get little other than SEDATION.

... The procedure involved extracting finely powdered Heavenly Blue Morning Glories w/ Ethanol. Most ethanol was evaporated off in a rotovap, added a bit more water, basified the messy solution w/ ammonia (to make sure alkaloids weren't in the salt form) & extracted 3x w/ dichloromethane, combined extracts were extracted with w/ water containing 5% tartaric acid. The alkaloidal-tartarate solution was basified w/ ammonia and extracted w/ dichloromethane. Evaporate DCM leaving a light coloured syrup that fluoresced bright blue under blacklight.
..

Prof Nichols had this to say in response to the proposed hypothesis put forth @ The Basel Conference:

"Although the pharmacology of isoergine (and even ergine itself) is not well studied, in other lysergic acid amides the iso epimers are generally inactive, at least when compared to the normal amides. Therefore, I still believe that ergine must be the species active at the receptor, but if the ergine/isoergine
equilibration can occur at body pH and temp, then ergine could be generated in the brain from
isoergine. This may be a key point, and you should go back and look at the Tetrahedron paper
where they apparently did some kinetics on the process.

Thus, I think that isoergine would lack pharmacological effects. But… there is another factor to consider. Absorption and partitioning through the body and into the brain only occurs with the unprotonated forms of alkaloids. That is, ergine is an alkaloid that will be protonated, or charged, at body pH. As such, before it can be absorbed from the gut or cross into the brain, it must lose its charge, or give up its proton. In the uncharged form it will readily cross into the brain, but this fraction is relatively small, perhaps only a few percent of the total.

Because of the ability of the amide of the D-ring of isoergine to form a stabilizing hydrogen bond
to the amine nitrogen, it can deprotonate very easily at body pH, giving a neutral species that will have a very high lipid solubility. The intramolecular hydrogen compensates for the energy cost of deprotonation and
desolvation. Using semiempirical methods, I calculated the length of this hydrogen bond to be about 2.65 Angstroms. Somewhat long, but reasonable. The work you cite in tetrahedron could be used for parallel discussion, but I don’t have the paper here. The consequence of the hydrogen bond is that isoergine will be
absorbed much more readily than ergine, and will penetrate the brain to a greater extent than ergine. Once inside the brain, however, facile epimerization of isoergine will lead back to an equilibrium that contains ergine, which is most likely the form of the molecule that I believe is active at the receptor. Importantly, however, I think the concentration of ergine could be much higher than if ergine itself was taken, IF
epimerization of isoergine back to ergine can occur at physiological conditions. Thus, at the brain receptor where ergine acts, a much higher concentration will be achieved than if ergine had been administered originally. If isoergine did have significant pharmacological activity, something which I doubt, but without evidence, it could be there in pretty high concentration, compared to what would be there after pure ergine
administration. So, the question is: if isoergine is placed in pH 7.4 at 37 degrees C, will a significant amount of ergine arise by epimerization in a reasonable amount of time?

This process is completely analogous to the proposal by G.P. Migliaccio, T.-L.N. Shieh, S.R. Byrn, B.A. Hathaway and D.E. Nichols, "Comparison of Solution Conformational Preferences for the
Hallucinogens Bufotenin and Psilocin using 360 MHz Proton NMR Spectroscopy", J. Med. Chem. 24,
206-209 (1981) to explain the high lipid solubility of psilocin, compared to bufotenin. In that paper, the authors proposed that an intramolecular hydrogen bond forms between the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin and the side chain amino group, providing enhanced penetration into the brain. Similarly, in isoergine, the hydrogen bond between the amide hydrogen and the unprotonated basic amine provides a very lipid-soluble, neutral substance that can easily be absorbed and penetrate into the brain. In pharmaceutical terms, we could consider that the “bioavailability” of isoergine would be much higher than that of ergine, following oral administration."
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And a few comments relayed from Peter Webster on another forum:

Reading it through, I see two misconceptions that could be corrected.

morninggloryseed says
"I assume that the 'boat' vs the 'chair' thing is
referring to d-ergine vs l-ergine. D-ergine is
flat, while l-ergine is not. Also very
interesting to hear Owsley's comments about LAOH
(he refers to it as 'hydroxymethyllysergamine'
but I am certain it is either a misprint or a
mistake as the chemical is
a-hydroxyethyl-d-lysergamide.) I had long ago
theorized that this may be the real active gem in
the seeds. Animal tests all point to it being an
active psychedelic.and it is indeed the closest
thing to LSD found in nature.far closer than
d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him
that LAOH is very LSD-like. I wonder if Hoffman
has notes in the Sandoz library about his
experiments. Maybe they are still being
translated. I am buying this book for certain."

the boat and chair forms are just alternative
conformations of the D-ring, not different
isomers (d- vs l- has the hydrogen at position 5 going in the other direction.)

The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be
psychoactive actually can never reach the brain,
since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine
and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed
into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods.

vbest regards,
peter

and....

Quote:
>Do you mind if I post your comments to the thread?

Please do. Also a comment about the graphs: The question here is what
conditions is the extract subjected to (and for how long) before (and
maybe even during) the HPLC? For instance, some researchers believe
that perhaps all the content of MG seeds exists as the
d-hydroxyethylamide, and it is the extraction/purification/testing
procedures which then produce the APPARENT result that the alkaloids
are ergine, isoergine, and maybe still some hydroxyethylamide. Thus
your testing procedure might also be subject to this problem. A test
that would fill us in on some important data would be to have the
rate of epimerisation of ergine to isoergine in basic, neutral, and
acidic media (and yes, the equilibrium is not far from 50/50). For
this, you'd need to separate one epimer with chromatography, and then
measure optical rotation over time. A little tricky to get it right
unless ypu've done similar testing before. LSD takes a week to
equilibrate even in basic conditions (to 88:12), whereas lysergic
acid itself is almost instant in strong base (to 85:15).

Prof Nichols believes the ergine-isoergine equilibration is rapid even in body
fluids, I suspect it is not, and that this is one reason for the
uncertainties we deal with in the book. But no one's got the hard data!

tregar · 08-24-06, 23:34

Attached is a single page from the book with drawings that attempt to visualize the molecules of ergine and its epimer in their true 3-dimensional state.

So we have the possibility that ergine can be in one of three states: it can be ergine in the chair or boat conformations, or it can be iso-ergine in the chair formation. And in many chemical and physical situations, the 3 forms are constantly converting themselves from one to the other, and achieving a typical equilibrium distribution.

Webster states "In morning glory seeds prepared according to our suggested method, and in seeds as prepared by Mesoamerican shamans, we are not dealing with pure chemically synthesized ergine or pure iso-ergine. Both pure compounds have been tested and found wanting by some investigators, including Dr. Hofmann."

The equilibrium mixture may actually be the TRUE psychoactive substance, formed in a solution over several hours.

If you ingest a PURE COMPOUND of ergine or a PURE COMPOUND of iso-ergine, this may NOT result in the equilibrium mixture arriving at brain receptors.

Important!
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*The EQUILIBRIUM REACTION takes some time to occur, about an hour or more....and happens best and quickly by basic conditions--and you can't find these conditions in the stomach nor in the blood--because these are not basic conditions. In other words, for best effects--to achieve the equilibrium reaction -- make a good solution extract--give it time to react, then it gets ingested.
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Ipomoea violacea (tricolor)

From "The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" (2005) by Christian Ratsch:

"According to Schuldes, a low dosage consists of 20 to 50 seeds, a moderate dosage of 50 to 150, and a high dosage of 300 seeds or more; only with moderate to high dosages was he able to observe LSD-like effects (Schuldes, 1993, 86f.*). Other sources suggest chewing and swallowing 5 to 19 grams of seeds or grinding them and allowing them to sit in water for thirty minutes (Gottlieb 1973, 37*).
A cold-water extract of 300 crushed or ground seeds is said to correspond to approximately 200 to 300 ug of LSD (Rob Montgomery, pers. comm.; Veit 1993, 548). The LD 50 of the isolated alkaloids is said to lie between 164 and 214 mg/kg in rats and between 1 and 2 g for humans."

tregar · 09-01-06, 02:10

What I'm going to state here is purely of my own conjecture--I really don't think it holds much promise but I still think it's worth thinking about:

I fully believe that Peter Webster has most likely hit the nail on the head in regards to his trio of conformations equilibrium theory, however I'm just goint to point out a few weird things:

Lysergic acid methylcarbinolamide (otherwise known as D-lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide (found in morning glory seeds in a lesser quantity than lysergic acid) may be very psychedelic as it is very similar to LSD, although no human tests have been done--only animal studies that point to it having the possibility of being psychedelic.

Peter Webster states this:

"The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be
psychoactive actually can never reach the brain,
since this compound is a LABILE ADDUCT of ergine
and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed
into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods."

*adduct = a new chemical species
*labile = unstable

However....

It is known that N-(1-hydroxyethyl) lysergamide is an adduct compound formed from lysergic acid amide (present in large amounts in the seed) and acetaldehyde.

This is easily formed by the combination of lysergic acid amide and acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (just mixing of the two together).

In the liver, it is known that an enzyme converts ethanol into acetaldehyde, which is then converted into harmless acetic acid by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase.

Acetaldehyde is more toxic than ethanol and is responsible for many hangover symptoms.

Is it possible in theory then, that if someone took both alcohol and lysergic acid amide (say from morning glory seeds) together--that the liver would convert some of the alcohol to acetaldehyde--and since this is both present in the liver at the same time as the d-lysergic acid--the mixing of the two--would then drive the reaction to form the new compound--N-(1-hydroxyethyl) lysergamide--which is thought to be perhaps very psychedelic and similar to LSD in its effects?

It wasn't discovered until 1990 by two researchers (nearly a century later) for example that cocaine and alcohol react in the liver to form a very unusual new compound--"cocaethylene"--this was the secret of the Vin Mariani (coca mixed with wine) then drunk resulted in significant activity with euphoria, cocaine effects, etc...however just drinking the coca on its own without the wine had little to no activity.

Would this explain as an alternative theory to that of Peter Webster's theory...that instead of a trio of drugs (ergine-boat conformation, ergine-chair conformation, and iso-ergine chair conformation) formed as an equilibrium reaction in an extracted solution over perhaps an hour or more as Peter theorizes may be responsible for the psychedelic activity of the seeds.... that perhaps (as Stretchman's everclear extract of morning glory seeds) N-(1-hydroxyethyl) lysergamide is indeed reaching the brain after being processed in the liver-- responsible for the very strong psychedelic effect instead?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It is quite possible that D-lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide is highly psychedelic and is the closest thing to LSD in nature. If the liver (when given a little alcohol) with lysergic acid amide can form acetaldehyde from the alcohol then mix it with the lysergic acid to add the CH3CHO piece (the chemical formula for acetaldehyde) then you end up with d-lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide...which then reaches the brain?

Acetaldehyde is also rapidly broken down in the liver as well, so perhaps it doesn't get a chance to do any of this....

Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that Trakman.du's alcoholic extract of morning glory seeds or that Stretchman's alcoholic extract of morning glory seeds is so strong (in their experiences) due to this proposed theoretical addition of the acetaldehyde's CH3CHO structure to the lysergic acid side chain in the liver resulting in a new compound with strong psychedelic activity similar to that of LSD?

*Remember that when Stretchman took his everclear tincture of morning glory seeds (after having been de-fatted with reagent grade petroleum ether to rid it of the nauseating compounds -- that it resulted in a highly lucid and visual psychedelic trip, whereas when he took the tar (which had all of the alcohol evaporated out of it) it resulted in a very different effect--the psychedelic effects were not to his liking. He way prefered the tincture to the tar.
The tincture showed him endless vistas...he likened the effects to taking your best 2 to 10 hit acid trip and multiplying the effects by two.

*Trakman.du stated that his alcoholic extract (after having been de-fatted as well) had effects that were no less powerful than that of LSD.

I find it hard to believe that there is not a single human study out there showing the effects of d-lysergic acid methylcarbinolamide on humans if it is indeed though by some very respected researchers to be similar to LSD in its effects. A study with animals was done in 1961 and was reported in the journal Nature.

This is also interesting: The drug Antabuse (disulfiram) also prevents the oxidation of acetaldehyde in the liver to acetic acid, with an unpleasant effect for drinkers. It is used in the treatment of certain alcoholics. Some people of East Asian descent have a mutation in their acetaldehyde dehydrogenase gene, making the enzyme (that converts acetaldehyde to acetic acid) less effective.

Acetaldehyde also occurs naturally in ripe fruit, fresh bread, and even coffee.

This is what Peter said in a paper at MAPS:

"Another finding I've just come across is that ergine probably is
non-existent in nature, even in morning-glory seed, but rather exists as
Lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide, as in Scott's paragraph above.
However, this alkaloid is actually a simple adduct of ergine and
acetaldehyde, and is transformed easily and spontaneously to ergine during
extraction or just dissolution in solvents. So the lysergic
hydroxyethylamide would have no opportunity to become the isolysergic
hydroxyethylamide as it would first, and more rapidly, be converted to
ergine and actealdehyde (the main chemical that gives you a hangover as the
body metabolises ethyl alocohol.) Also, the hydroxyethylamide cannot
therefore be a psychoactive agent as it would be transfored to ergine (and
then isoergine) long before traveling through the stomach, blood, and
blood-brain barrier to the neuro receptors. I'm planning a nice lecture on
all this chemisty for Perinaldo."

From an article written by morninggloryseed at Wikipedia:

"Its structure is very similar to LSD in that the N, N-diethylamide group is replaced with an N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide in d-lysergic acid (alpha-hydroxyethylamide)."

"While animal data involving d-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide exists, the physiological and pharmacological actions in humans is unknown. Animal studies do suggest the alkaloid may have some toxic effects at high levels."

"The human activity of d-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide is unknown, but animal studies suggest it is an active psychedelic and hallucinogen and likely contributes to the seed's psychedelic and entheogenic activity. Dosage and durtion of this compound is unknown."

*Nobody seems to know whether this compound is actually psychedelic or not--and even if it is--we don't know how potent it is or how long it lasts. Bigwood, Ott and others only performed experiments with ergonovine (another compound found in the seeds) back in the 70's, and not with this compound.
From the Jan-June 1979 issue of the "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs": "One of us experienced eidetic imagery, rapidly-changing, colorful geometric patterns, undulating, never still." The psychic effects did not increase with the same magnitude as the somatic effects. The studies were done with ergometrine at doses from 3.75 to 10mg.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* LSD has an N, N-diethylamide group

* With d-Lysergic acid N-(alpha-hydroxyethyl) amide, the N,N-diethlamide group of LSD is replaced with an N-(1-hydroxyethyl)amide.

* Ergonovine is otherwise known as d-lysergic acid beta-propanolamide)
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*It is also quite probable that the only reason that Stretchman's tincture was so potent compared to the evaporated tar is because he exposed the delicate amides from his tincture to air, light, and/or possibly heat for several days--weakening the amides considerably, or it may be due to the fact (more likely) that his tincture solution allowed the ergine variants to reach an equilibrium trio of conformations (according to Webster's theory) and since it was still in solution, when he ingested it, the trio of drug conformations reached the brain receptors intact--enacting the powerful experiences. Otto Snow does mention in his book "LSD" that all seed extractions should be done under inert atmosphere as well. Ergot alkaloids will decompose in light, heat and air. Tartrate and maleate salts are less susceptible to destruction.

---------------------------------------

There is also an interesting on-line interview with the Bear Owsley where he hits on a derivative of LSD that the ancients may have discovered and prepared for the Eleusis mystery quoted here:

"B: Well, people could say the same thing about LSD, they could say there’s sassafras and there’s nutmeg in nature, and there is morning glories and ergot in nature, but you have to do the chemistry in order to make something that’s effective.

O: No, that’s not true. Ergot contains many natural, highly psychedelic alkaloids. Iso-ergine is one of them, hydroxy-methyl-lysergamide is another one, and in fact, is considered nearly identical to LSD in effect. Albert Hoffman told me so himself. They believe that it was this derivative contained in extracts of c.paspalum that was used in the Eleusian Mysteries.

B: It’s true, they did a water salt solution.

O: I believe that they will find a plant which contains the exact diethylamide of lysergic acid in natural form. In alkaline alcoholic medium the isomers of the amines of lysergic acid will reach an equilibrium. This equilibrium will be a certain per centage of the iso compound, and a certain per centage of the normal compound. Of all the compounds listed experimentally by Hoffman, LSD has the highest ratio of active to inactive isomers in the equilibrated mixture, it runs 88-12. Of all the compounds, and it lists about 20 of them, it has the highest ratio of active to inactive. This means that nature favours the active form of LSD over the inactive by a considerable margin."

*note in the above interview the compound may have been mis spelled, and instead they are referring to
D-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethyl amide (otherwise known as D-Lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide or other name for d-lysergic acid methylcarbinolamide.

tregar · 09-01-06, 02:11

A few more quotes of good vibes morning glory experiences:
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Stretchman: "Yes, SWISM noted the swirling organicness of SWISM's trip. There was much
preoccupation with the cyclical nature of things, such as one may extrapolate from watching ripples in
a pond. At one point SWISM rearranged the living room furniture into more natural, circular patterns.
It heightens one's awareness to the point at which one can see the interconnectedness of all things
quite clearly. Previously unheard-of energies can be sensed. It can be a meaningful and beautiful
trip.

There is definitely a unique type of consciousness present when one explores this plant. However,
the type of experience is very different depending on how the plant material is prepared. Many
different aspects of the same entity. SWISM's favorite is a yellow tincture; it was this that brought
forth SWISM's most lucid and deep visions.

It is definitely a similar experience to that induced by LSD or Psilocybe mushrooms. It is gentler
and more natural-feeling than the average LSD trip, "cleaner"--feeling than the average mushroom trip,
and depending on preparation many times more lucid and relevatory than either...or both at once--
(yes, SWISM's been there).

Were it legal to do so, SWISM would concoct a batch of LSA-rich liquid, then promptly dose
everyone in this thread with the mystical tincture. Perhaps then minor differences of opininon would
be less apt to explode into flaming, and new understandings could be reached."
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Stretchman: "Twenty years ago when I was employed as a nomadic space pirate, I tried the method
of seed sprouts as a tea for myself. I found that I still got significant nausea from this method,
plus a feeling of sedation that was entirely unexpected. However, I didn't get the weird leg
pains/twitchiness that most people who eat the raw seed or consume a CWE often report.

The best method I found to enjoy these seeds is described in the Gigantor LSA thread which
lurks around here somewhere. Basically, the tincture provides an experience which would seem
to combine the best qualities of a psilocybe mushroom trip with the best qualities of an LSD
trip, with zero body load or weird symptoms (aside from the entheogenic state itself)."

For those that are interested in pursuing a dream of consuming the raw plant material, one can
certainly anticipate some nasty hypothetical side effects. While these side effects might be
important from an ethnographical/anthropological standpoint, they can detract from an otherwise
life-changing experience.

The whole LSA/MG issue is a convoluted mess of opinions. I suggest researching the subject
as much as possible. If nothing else, it should be entertaining.

Extraction can accomplish two goals:
1. It removes toxic compounds from the seed
2. It unlocks the mind-blowing potential of this plant

Hope this helps.
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Stretchman: "An extraction performed in the manner described in the initial post produced no nausea
whatsover. In fact it was the cleanest and most interesting trip SWIM had ever taken. To reiterate,
SWIM would consider a theoretical extraction like this hypothetically quite feasible and pleasurable
were it legal, apart from questions of NP solvent purity."

Okay, to clarify, the LSA's as I have prepared them, are every bit as ragingly rugged as good old LSD,
perhaps more so!!!

The "cleanness" of the "trip" (cleanness inquotes because I don't think there is really such a thing as
"dirty" acid, acid being the main basis for comparison of the LSA experience) would make this, IMO,
the ideal substance for the psychedelic neophyte. That and the exceptional lucidity of the trip. Either
that, or I just get along extraordinarily well with this particular plant."
Infraredroses: "One cannot emphasize enough the extraordinary beauty and grandeur of an
extracted LSA trip. It has been a long time since I visited this ally in her realm, and my heart
yearns. The naptha issue is a controversial one indeed. One must do what one feels right."
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Pharmboy: "I did a cold water extraction out of about 300 seeds. I used ice cold tap water, and did 3 soaks.
I simply ground the seeds up in a coffee grinder, put them in a cup, added ice cold water and stuk it in the
fridge for an hour. Drew the cold water off with a syringe, and added more. 3 pulls in total--around 100ml
water tota. The water didn't taste bad at all.

It was one of the most visual trips I've ever had. Not only that, a hit of DMT at the peak was like absolute
heaven (which I have yet to replicate on any psychedelic). I was very sedated though. I managed to stay
awake for most of it."
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Pharmboy: "My absolute best psychedelic experience in the last bunch of years was a weakish
300 seed CWE trip with DMT smoked at the peak.

I'd love to see the MG/LSA secrets unlocked...For sure."
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Spunion Elf the second: "Morning glorys are visual if you take about a thousand and do an extraction.
For a one step extract water is better than alcohol, because alcohol dissolves more of the stuff that makes
you sick. But, if you use a nonpolar solvent to remove all the noxious shite first, alcohol does a wonderful
job of extracting the goodies and is easier to evaporate than water."
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Mezza: "First attempt - 9g of Heavenly Blues--crushed the seeds with a hammer and did a cold water
extraction. The water didn't taste too bad. Mixing the wet seed pulp and eating it w/Lemon Yogurt was bad.

Took about 2 hours to come on with a good 45 minutes of considerable nausea. After the nausea passed,
excellent trip. Great, LSD-like visuals (but slower) and very lucid. Great body high, music was fantastic."

2nd time--9g of Flying Saucers in a cold water extraction. Minor visuals, but a very auditory trip. Was by
himself on this one and felt a little spooky. A good trip, but not anything compared to the first one."
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woundsarehealed: "the strongest trip that swim ever had (with anything!) was with about 10g morning
glory seeds (heavenly Blue) and 3000mg vitamin C (3 pills) all ground up in a coffee grinder and soaked
in water for 1 hour. Then he drank it, and had minor stomach pains....after about 1 hour and 30 minutes,
he had a wonderful body trip (somatically intense).....2.5 hours into the trip he had very strong visuals,
and no more discomfort. Very mystical experience for 9-10 hours!!! Was very wonderful! (so he says).
To help the stomach discomfort next time, a good remedy to ingest with it would be some kind of leaf
mint. help alot!!!"
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GoaM: "Man. A friend of mine sent me some morning glory seeds. I crushed and ate 17 grams last
night. First few hours were nausea and sedation. Should've taken a dramamine first. Well anyway, the
shit hit HARD after a few hours. Fuck man. I'm talking colors, fractals, hardcore patterning. This stuff
is great. I LOVE LSA. It's great stuff, and the colors are very beautiful."
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genaro: "well I have had quite a few visuals (both CEVs and OEVs) from HBWR (8-13 seeds) and
morning glory (15-30g which is 500 to 1000 seeds)...which was THC free in quite a few cases.

On my very first trips with these (let's say the first 3-8 trips) there was no "trip routine" and I could
get very nice OEVs such as very nice and brightly coloured Kalaeidoscopeic/vortex stuff all over the
walls of my room, beautiful."
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Mxindustry sheep: "I once purchased a very good (very potent) batch of heavenly blue seeds.
Open and close eye visuals 200 seeds. Very pleasant after you throw up: P, but once it's out it's out."
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~erebus: "I have yet to try HWBR but I have some experience with morning glory seeds. I had the most
intense trip I've ever had with them, strangely enough.

Time perception was heavily distorted, and all I remember thinking was "WOW". My vision was
completely filled with geometric patterns, much like you would find on a tiled floor with patterns."
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thefungalfiend: "I've eaten large amounts of morning glory, and can definitely attest to their
ability to produce visuals. Rich, complicated visuals. Take more. Erowid doses are all wrong
on this. It saids 10g is a Strong dose? That's just getting started. That's why no one feels these
things, because no one is taking enough. The best trip I had on them was with 25 grams."

nolly: "please, no one take this seriously--an ounce of seeds would be a bad thing to put
in your stomach, afoaf ate a few grams years ago, and had signficant side-effects (nausea,
gastrci cramps) that made the experience a big negative overall."
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innatebeat: "I've never really gotten a clear idea of how good LSA really is. Finally I tried it and
had AMAZING results. Definetly not as strong as LSD but definetly comparable. Have any of
you guyz had any similar experiences? I honestly felt like I had uncovered a secret...HAHA, I
mean the only drawback to LSA was the nausea but after that passed I would definetly say it
was worth it. I honestly felt a genuine happiness, a need to better myself, and finally was able
to say goodbye to some harsher substances I'm into...If any of you guyz have been thinking of
giving LSA a try I definetly recommend it, I'm no NOOb either, I've had my share of psychedelics
and this one has got to be at the top of my list, simply because its natural...I even liked it better
than fungus...

VertexShader: "In my expereince LSA has been truly blissful and euphoric. No visuals or insights,
though. Not much of a mindchange, but I guess I haven't done enough."

Xorkoth: "As for LSA, I find it to be definitely more sedating and more natural feeling than LSD.
If you can get past the nausea, you'll enter into a wonderful trip which generally is much less visual
than LSD, but includes instead feelings of extreme euphoria and closeness with nature. I've never
tried high dosages of either, but while I enjoy LSD more for various reasons, I find LSA to be very
enjoyable as well. But unless you can make a damn good extraction, you'll first experience nausea
on a level above that which most psychedelics give."

Cat Again: "I have had 3 experiences with HBWR. My first 2 were with 8 and 10 seeds respectively.
Both gave similar effects which consisted of me feeling sedated and nauseated. And once those
effects pased it felt more like rolling than tripping.

On my 3rd experience I tried 13 seeds (yes I realize now that my seeds were not of the best
quality, but I don't really know where to get the ones that require only 4 seeds for full effects)
and it gave me a trip as deep and powerful as a high dose of mushrooms or LSD. At the time of
the trip I was swearing that it was the most amazing experience of my life and could never be
topped. I felt the oneness I do on LSD and the connection to nature I do on mushrooms.

The seeds truly are amazing and if you have been disappointed by them I recommend you try
again either with a different batch or a higher dose."
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Psychedelics_r_best: "The only time I had a marvelous LSA experience was when I ground up
about 500 seeds, put them in lemonade, chugged down, and smoked weed about two hours later.
It was amazing. Like nothing else I've ever tried. Visuals and all."
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dilated_pupils: "I did 10 grams (appox. 300 seeds) of Morning Glory Heavenly Blues. The first
time it was just amazing, intense visuals, morphing, tracers, my mind was going insane. I had
a great time! The second time however, I ended up feeling sick the whole time, and tripped way
too hard and found myself having a bad time so I just went to bed."
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xxanxx: "I always had great sucess doing the simple cold water extraction on the MG seeds.
I usually use about 15-20 grams and grind them up, soak in cold distilled water, and filter through
a t-shirt. Then I add a teaspoon or two of ginger (for upset stomachs) and smoke a joint or two--
great trip, more powerful than any acid I've taken!"
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odrorir · 09-01-06, 10:26

I really think stretchman's tek is way off base, I found the method Weber actually used somewhere, I will grab it.

Quote--*Remember that when Stretchman took his everclear tincture of morning glory seeds (after having been de-fatted with reagent grade petroleum ether to rid it of the nauseating compounds -- that it resulted in a highly lucid and visual psychedelic trip, whereas when he took the tar (which had all of the alcohol evaporated out of it) it resulted in a very different effect--the psychedelic effects were not to his liking. He way prefered the tincture to the tar.
The tincture showed him endless vistas...he likened the effects to taking your best 2 to 10 hit acid trip and multiplying the effects by two.

tregar · 09-01-06, 11:41

Yes, Webster's tek is interesting. The only info I have on it is about a paragraph long (the discussion about it at the Jan 2006 LSD symposium) and it doesn't go into much detail for a non-chemist. I believe it is a double acid-base type of extraction. Pharmboy is interested as well in Webster's method and plans to explore it further. Being a non-chemist, I would need a detailed tek that may be developed one day in order to follow it in theory.

odrorir · 09-01-06, 13:15

If you can find it for me I will see what I can dig up too. I know I saw it somewhere. It shouldn't be too hard to break into basic steps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tregar

Yes, Webster's tek is interesting. The only info I have on it is about a paragraph long (the discussion about it at the Jan 2006 LSD symposium) and it doesn't go into much detail for a non-chemist. I believe it is a double acid-base type of extraction. Pharmboy is interested as well in Webster's method and plans to explore it further. Being a non-chemist, I would need a detailed tek that may be developed one day in order to follow it in theory.

tregar · 09-01-06, 14:49

Here it is:

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In January at the Conference in Basel, a speaker Peter Webster brought up his experiments w/ extractions of Morning Glories. Which involved a simple basified extract (I'll detail below) of Morning Glories which yielded ~2mL of a light colored syrup that flouresced bright blue under UV (which is characteristic for for simple lysergic acid amides) with ~2mg of this syrup was obtained a full on psychedelic experience remarked equally as strong as high dose LSD trips he had experienced. At the conference he goes on to hypothesize that a ergine/isoergine basified solution was likely the Kykeon of Eleusis. Though he admits there remains uncertainty about ergine/isoergine and their psychoactivity in isomeric equilibrium; as such it remains to be pointed out why some people with some preparations HIT THE BULL'S EYE! and others get little other than SEDATION.

... The procedure involved extracting finely powdered Heavenly Blue Morning Glories w/ Ethanol. Most ethanol was evaporated off in a rotovap, added a bit more water, basified the messy solution w/ ammonia (to make sure alkaloids weren't in the salt form) & extracted 3x w/ dichloromethane, combined extracts were extracted with w/ water containing 5% tartaric acid. The alkaloidal-tartarate solution was basified w/ ammonia and extracted w/ dichloromethane. Evaporate DCM leaving a light coloured syrup that fluoresced bright blue under blacklight.
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Also this:

QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006)
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"In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times."

"Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone."
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Pharmboy believes it is a double acid-base type extraction.

It may also be possible to contact Peter Webster directly to get more insight, I've seen his contact information posted thru a simple search on google. I believe he is the founder of the on-line psychedelic library and actively involved in some other groups on-line. username J. Alfred Prufrock was able to contact him (over at bluelight.nu) to get his comments on a discussion back in mid-August concerning a thread on the subject of the equilibrium conformation theory with ergine/iso-ergine and his comments in response to what Prof. Nichols had to say about his speech at the Basil symposium.

Erowid also has this acid-->base extraction process that can be continued as many times as
desired:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...raction1.shtml

I also found an interesting paper entitled "LSD and its Lysergamides" by Prof. Nichols, Ph.D link below. The paper states mechanisms of possible actions of LSD including interacting with brain 5-HT2A receptors--activation of the receptor by LSD typically only reaches 25% of the maxiumum, whereas serotonin reaches 100%. It also has actions at many other brain receptors that may amplify, modulate, or influence its overall effects on consciousness.

http://www.heffter.org/review/Review...roups%20LSD%22

Abbreviated Name ------------------------- R ------------------------ R1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LSD-25 ----------------------------------- CH2CH3 ------------------ CH2CH3
*Ergonovine (Ergometrine) -------------------- CH3 -------------------- CH2OH
*d-Lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethylamide) ----- CH3 ------------------------ OH
*ergine------------------------------------------H---------------------------H

*some of the compounds found in the seeds.

tregar · 09-17-06, 22:59

Before I let this thread die in peace I wanted to post my last bits of valuable information that I've learned below. I've had personal correspondance with hermes the last few days and he has taught me much about this subject, but has since moved on to other interest such as salvia. He believes the reason he has not gone back is that it was all a bit much. He still hasn't digested all the information he learned from the experiences back then, and mentioned to me that he could even develop a career out of even one of the small pieces of the experience he learned back then.

QUOTE from hermes (lycaeum March 2003) on morning glory visuals & strength:
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Depending on seed quality, you should get some weak to decent effects from 8 grams, like mild reality bending, marked enhancement of aesthetic perception, insights, weak open eye visuals, moderate but subtle closed eye visuals (especially with music). I find that more satisfactory results are achieved with more seeds, like 14 grams or more. This much is needed to enter truly psychedelic territory. I wouldn't recommend this much if you haven't tried lower doses with the same seeds and method, however. LSA can cause significant vasoconstriction, causing restricted blood circulation to extremities. Make sure that your toes don't get numb or tingly on 8 or so grams first. And don't mix with other vasoconstrictives, like ephedrine or caffiene.

I usually just measure by Burpee bags. These are 1.8 grams each. I have used anything ranging from 3 to 12 of these. Strangely, the 12 bag trip was relatively weak. They must have been some old seeds. My strongest experience ever with MG seeds was with the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart.

I had strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are about 32-36 seeds to a gram. The Martha Stewarts are more expensive than the Burpees. They are like $1.30 a bag or something close to that for a 1.2 gram bag. The Burpees are something like $0.88 a bag and each bag has 1.8 grams. That's $2.05 a gram for Martha Stewart seeds and $0.92 a gram for Burpee seeds. It seems to be a trade off.

My favorite way to go about this is to first wash the whole seeds in a bowl with a little water and a very small amount of liquid handsoap. I slosh them around and rub them a bit in the soapy water (not too long--could reduce potency). I then rinse them good with cold water in one of those screen vegetable strainers. This is intended to wash off any fungicide or other adulterants. I then dry the seeds well with paper towels. Then I grind the seeds in coffee grinder to a fairly fine consistency, but not to the point of being powder. The hulls should remain somewhat course, while the lighter colored inner stuff is pretty much powder. I then put this stuff into one or several empty tea bags. Don't overfill one. If the bags are small, use several. Next, put the bag(s) into a full glass of cold distilled water and use a spoon to press on them and make sure they are well-saturated with water. Let sit for 10 minutes in a cool dark place. Use spoon to squeeze and agitate the bag against side of glass some more to get more stuff out. Don't press too hard or you will break the bag and get seed mush into the water, which is undesireable. Leave for 10 more minutes. Squeeze again. Leave for 10 minutes. Squeeze. Remove bags after squeezing most of the water from them into the glass. You can suck on the bags if you want to get more stuff. I don't generally do this. Discard bags. Drink water. Get yourself into the mood with some good music and wait for effects. You might want to take a little ginger if you are worried about nausea. Usually I don't get any, but sometimes there is a little, probably partly from pre-trip anticipation anxiety.

QUOTE (report) from hermes:
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My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!

On other occasions with LSA (I took it while in a less than ideal mind state), I felt like I went to Hell. Everything was empty and awful and terrifying and lonely. I felt like there were worms boring through my brain, eating it. I was a hole. That is the only way to describe it. I felt vacuous. I trembled with horror. Everything felt so incredibly meaningless.

I hope your experiences will take you to nice places. Be careful. Your brain is not a toy. Consider yourself warned.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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For me, they seem to be similar in both duration and effect. The only real difference I notice is that LSA is a little more lethargic, at least in the early phase of the trip. LSD is a bit more speedy. With LSA, I am much more able to lay around or focus on one task like painting. I also noticed that it is possible to go to sleep while still tripping on LSA, which is impossible with LSD. I slept once on LSA and had incredibly visual dreams! These were the most beautiful visuals I have ever seen under any circumstances. I dreamt that I was being shown the entire unfoldment of the universe, with the evolution of man, and it was all represented on this incredible spinning wheel. It was indescribable. I want to go to sleep on LSA again and attempt to have a lucid dream. That would be nothing short of amazing!

Anyway, my LSA trips last 10-12 hours or so, with slight effects that linger for another 24 hours or so. And I usually feel something like an afterglow for a week or so afterwards. During this period, I am much more creative than usual and happier too. I also notice that colors look slightly more pronounced for a week or so in a very LSA specific way. I never noticed this on LSD.

Comfortably_Numb asked where I buy my seeds from. K-mart and Wal Mart have been typical sources. The most powerful brand of seeds that I ever tried were the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart (I had strong effects, with good open eye visuals, on only 300 seeds! I used a water extraction with some added lemon juice on this occasion. I do not know if this helped). Burpee seeds work well too, but didn't seem as potent as the Martha Stewart brand. The Burpee seeds are less expensive. I have never tried bulk seeds. As far as I know, the ones that I tried didn't have any pesticides. Nothing was mentioned on the package that would indicate this. I did always wash the seeds just in case, however.

If anyone tries this, inform us about the results. Tell me if the tea-bag method worked for you.

If the taste bothers you, you can add something to the water, but I wouldn't guarantee that it will not reduce potency. The taste isn't that bad. Just drink it fast.

Slimey, in order to get a crystalline product, you would have to go even further than the organic solvent/alcohol extraction. But the crude result that this method gives is good enough. You can just put the product in gel caps or something. With the water extraction, it is very difficult to evaporate the water without adding heat or having long term exposure. If you had a strong vacuum chamber, you could evaporate the water cold and leave behind the residue. That is the only good reason to use the organic solvent/alcohol extraction, to evaporate the alcohol and leave a solid product. But if you are just going to consume it immediately, why bother? Just drink the water. The taste is a small price to pay. And it isn't all that bad anyway. Put some sugar in it or something! Just don't make coffee out of it!
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Thank you Kosmo, for demonstrating that I do know what I am talking about when it comes to Morning Glory seeds! How strong was your experience? 750 seeds should have given a medium level trip if you extracted them well and they were potent seeds. Did you have any noticeable visual effects, with eyes closed or open? Did you do Morning Glories alone? I look forward to reading your report!

You see, people? He said, "no nausea!" Now notice that all the people who eat the seeds directly or extract poorly get sick as hell. Why someone would insist on getting sick just to get slightly more LSA out of a given quantity of seeds is beyond me. You will not get a 100% yield this way, but you can just add more seedsn and they are not very expensive, even in the seed packets.

So, Kosmo, after doing it this way, would you see any reason to do it any other way? It is simple and fast, isn't it? Can you possibly understand why so many people refuse to follow my advice? I sure can't. And it didn't taste too bad, did it?
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Was it sitting in a light place? Light will do the LSA harm.

I really don't know if or how much LSA would be destroyed by oxidation when it has been sitting in oxygenated water for a few hours. The most likely thing is that the seeds were short in quantity or potency, or the tea bags were not squeezed and agitated enough. The biggest reason to keep the extraction short is to avoid extracting more than the desired alkaloids and also for convenience. Were the seeds black? Were they Heavenly Blues? How many did you use? Were they this year's crop? Did you use distilled water?

The hardest thing to control is the freshness and potency of the seeds. If you buy the bulk kind, who the hell knows how old they are? The ones that come in packets are usually dated, if I remember right. I'll have to go look. And who knows where the seeds have been stored throughout their entire existence? Someone could have left them in a hot place for a time, which would annihilate the LSA.

But without at least the dosage, I can't begin to tell you why the effects were so weak.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Undertow, you are not doing something right. If you perform a proper extraction using good seeds (and a large enough quantity), you will get strong psychedelic effects and no nausea without requiring any other substances.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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So, what sort of comparison would you now make between LSD and LSA? In my experience, they are difficult to tell apart. The taste in my mouth and the physical energy level are the only things that seem different. LSD causes a "taste hallucination" that resembles rusty iron, while LSA causes a taste somewhat like bee pollen. Also, LSA has a much more lethargic feel, at least in the early portion of the trip. Other than that, they are the same for me. Really, it seems like LSA is a little more visual for me for a given amount of mind alteration.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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What is it with eyes anyhow? Does anyone else see eyes filling their CEVs or OEVs? I see eyes, eyes in triangles, wings, eyes in triangles with wings, cherubim, seraphim, pyramids, pyramids with wings and eyes and caducea, utchats, lions, owls, cobras, and generally anything related to the Western Mystery Tradition. The first great "vision" I saw was while on Morning Glories and listening to Mozart's Requiem. When the Lacrimosa began, I saw incredible Angelic forms and felt this incredible awe and love for existence. I think I stole a glimpse of the Beautific Vision itself. I cried and sobbed for hours, in pure ecstacy. I knew, however, that I only encountered the very periphery of the "Inner Kingdom," since the cherubs revealed neither their hands nor their faces, just three pairs of wings. I had never seen them before this, in religious paintings or otherwise. I had not read the bible or anything before this had happened. Afterwards, upon doing a bit of research, I saw that they are commonly encountered by mystics of various cultures, especially in the West. In particular, I saw them in a book on Islamic architecture, painted on the ceiling of a Mosque. These looked incredibly similar to those I saw, only very washed out and a far cry from the real thing. These things just can't be painted. They have to be experienced.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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You want to surround yourself with nice, comforting things, things that make you feel safe. Just the slightest threat can
trigger obsessive feedback loops of paranoia. Although, this paranoia has seemed more prevalent for me on psilocybin than on LSA or LSD. Usually with LSA or LSD, I become less fearful than usual, which can be dangerous!

It always seems to me that with LSA, the highly visual phase is late in the session, long after body phase and introspective phase. I wonder if the occipital lobe (visual cortex if I am not mistaken) of the brain is one of the last regions of the brain through which the blood passes.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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"creation-in-us," where do you get this crap? You are all backwards. I have YEARS of experience with Morning Glories, i.e. tlitlitzin, and I know that LSA IS WATER SOLUBLE! I can show the MERCK reference if you want. You drink the water and trash the pulp! You are going to poison people with your advice! All the bad stuff is nonpolar and tends to remain in the pulp when the polar LSA is extracted with water. Do a little research will ya? Kids these days...
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QUOTE (trip report) from EndlessSky79 (lycaeum April 2006):
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This was my third time taking Morning Glory. I usually take it in a Shamanic context, grinding the seeds in the dawn, allowing the pulp to soak in cool water for three days, then ritually drinking the strained liquid. Well, my experience the other night was amazing....and not at all what I expected.

Background: Im a chronic pain patient, experienced with LSD, opiates, and in general view psychedelics as mind expanding allies...okay- onto the good stuff.

After pretty much a week of living hell due to my pain and Ultram (which does nothing), I decided that three nights ago, I needed a vacation. Not a little DXM vacation (I don't take much DXM on the scale- usually just enough to reach a lower '2nd' plateau...a lot like being drunk and stoned at the same time, but less disorienting). I needed something strong which wouldn't hurt my liver, which is damaged, and would bring me positive energy.

After deliberating, and a bit of prayer, I decided to take Morning Glory seeds and see where the night took me. At 9pm I took an anti-nausea pill in preparation for my journey. Little did I know what I was in for. I powdered up 200 seeds in the ubiquitous coffee grinder, and painstakingly transfered the powder (black shell husk fragments were removed by hand) into gelatin capsules. By the time I was done, it was about 10pm, and I was ready to go. I swallowed down 12 capsules, and laid down waiting for the magickal seeds to take their effect. I told Tlitlitzen (the name the plant spirit gave me on a previous trip) that I just needed a beautiful trip, and if there was any knowledge I needed, it wouldn't hurt, but I primarily needed a mental vacation.

At 10:45 I started to feel a little nauseous, however, this feeling was quelled by the anti- nausea pill (well, something good has come of my liver problems). Usually about an hour after ingesting the seeds, I vomit much like Linda Blair in that horror classic we all know and love. Not this time, though!
As I laid back on the couch, gazing at the ceiling, it slowly began undulating, and gently morphing colors from light pink, to green, to blue, and then back, as though the ceiling was dancing. (The ceiling is white). I raised my right hand before my eyes, and it seemed as though in an instant my hand was aged to the point of a 90 year olds'- almost skeletal, and then back to normal. However, this reminder of my mortality didn't bother me at all. I felt comforted, as though a huge, warm blanket has been wrapped around my body on a cold winters' night. I felt as though nothing could harm me, that I was a part of the cycle of life, and that the journey ahead was going to be good. When I looked over at my husband's (Eli) 'Invader Zim' house (DVD special edition holder), I could see it seem to grow. The lights within the 'house' looked as though they were on, and I fancied that I saw shadows crossing in front of the window where people might walk. It was an interesting hallucination.

At around 11:30, I got up to use the bathroom, however, my balance was slighly off. Eli had been giving me a gentle footrub, and my feet and hands were cold under the blue and white striped blanket which I had draped over myself. Unfortunately, nature called, so I got up to go to the restroom.
Now, according to traditional research and chemical knowledge, the active ingredient in MG seeds is LSA- derived from ergot alkaloids. The whole seeds, when consumed without any sort of distillation or purification process (such as cold water extraction) are supposed to produce some very unpleasant side effects. The majority of the ergot alkaloids which cause unpleasant side effects such as 'fish eye' vision and nausea are contained in the outer hull- most of which I had picked out- so I was pleasantly surprised at the smoothness of the ride so far. As I sat in the bathroom, the walls on the shower melted together in gentle pastel patterns- mirroring the ceiling earlier. I was completely enchanted by a body wash container that has a picture of lavender on it, as the lavender picture seemed to grow vines, and the flowers seemed to expand gently. I was sad to leave the bathroom, but happy to get back to Eli.

On my return to the comfort of the couch, I decided to take 3 balloons of nitrous oxide in order to facilitate the experience. (The two chemicals are very synergistic). Eli, despite the fact that he doesn't like nitrous, was kind enough to monitor me, and kept track of the time between when I first started to inhale the gas, and when I lost conscious control of my body. I laid back, and raised my left foot slightly. When the foot dropped- I'd be out. I cranked up the 'Magic carpet ride' remix by Fatboy Slim on my I-Pod, and brought the balloon to my lips. It seemed like forever for me, however, it was in reality about 50 seconds before I actually dropped my foot.

I was floating in a supremely peaceful darkness, feeling the presence of the feminine and masculine divine. I laughed while I was under, (I think sheerly from the joy of the feeling of being so unconditionally loved and accepted.) I then thought of Eli, and how much joy he gave me- then I floated back to my body, which was mercifully free of pain for a time, and told him how much I loved him. My second balloon caused beautiful fractal patterns (CEVs- Closed Eye Visuals) behind my eyelids. Again I felt that overwhelming presence, and was unable to communicate to Eli the sheer wonder of the experience. When I came back, the MG was very much accentuated by the nitrous oxide, and everywhere I looked, bookshelves were undulating. The blue light from a lamp we'd liberated from the dumpster the day before seemed to have rubbed off on the light switch across the rooom- a full visual hallucination.

When I closed my eyes, I could still feel the pull towards the divine space I'd felt earlier, and I tried to explore my feelings on it when I realized (was told, directed, or my mind decided it would be better) that I should focus on Eli. He is such an important, amazing part of my life.

The feeling and visuals I was experiencing can only be likened to the descriptions I've heard of people who take LSD and Ecstasy at the same time. I felt completely open- yet wasn't babbling. (At least, I don't believe I was, and Eli certainly wasnt looking at me in horror, so I assumed all was good.) I proceeded to have a long talk with Eli about my pain and how it's been affecting our relationship. He told me about many things he'd been thinking about. I am very glad we had that conversation.

At around 1ish or so, Eli went to bed. I decided to join him, and although I could see amazing interplays between the lights and the shadows in the bedroom, I closed my eyes and focused on the warmth of him. The way he smelled, the feeling of our cheeks and lips touching. We talked for a while, softly, and we held each other while talking about our concerns for the future- and decided that we would do our best to make things work. He said that he couldn't imagine a life without me, and I realized that the statement was true of me too. I wouldn't want to live life without him to share it with me. I want him by me every step of the way. We held each other in the dark for a time, until I realized I wouldn't be able to sleep....so I kissed him goodnight and went out to the family room.

Now, I misplaced my 'trip toy' of a fan which makes pretty light patterns, however, I turned on Eli's 'Lightning' blue lamp, and watched as the lightning seemed to ark all over the room, turning from bright blue to electric green and soft pink. I turned on the Beatles, and Magickal Mystery tour came on. I enjoyed the Beatles until a desire siezed me to go outside. I snuck back into the bedroom, for sweats, a Rainbow Brite sweatshirt, and my long 'pimp jacket'. When brought into the light of the room, the 'pimp jacket' seemed to take on a life of its own- changing textures and shapes- fascinating me with the never ending fluctuations of possibilities emerging from what a few hours before has been a simple coat. I put the coat on, and walked outside, closing the door.

There was a light breeze blowing, and as I looked up, I saw the firt 'true' hallucinations I've ever experienced. The stars seemed to multiply, and spiral softly down from the velvet sky, swirling and dancing in a rhythm that seemed to encompass all of nature. The 'shooting stars were so captivating that I had to sit on the sidewalk in awe. The bushes all around me constantly changed shapes and forms- going from rich earthy green, to a lighter color- the color of spring. The air smelled sharp, rich- full of growing things. I had to walk around and see more.

As I walked slowly around the apartment, the streetlamps were beacons shining out in the night. The light which is usually bright yellow pulsed between yellow, bright purple, and gentle blue, seeming to encourage me to come and stare at it- to touch the rays that looked so real. The stoplight on the street had 3 images which slowly swirled around each other.

The pine trees swayed and changed shape. The clouds above me were forming fantastic images (and I'm sure there weren't any clouds in the sky at the time). I saw dragons, nymphs, birds, all things from myth and fairy tale. I felt as though I was walking the line between where fantasy and reality meet, and it was wonderful. Despite all my prior experiences with good LSD, nothing even came CLOSE to this. I realized I should probably go inside, so I went back to the 'lightning lamp' and was mesmerized by the Mamas and the Papas while watching the colors pulse, and the bookshelves along the walls change shape slowly and majestically. One second they reached the ceiling- the next, they seemed two feet tall. My own feet seemed miles away. My statue of Ganesha danced, holding his tusk out, and growed an extra set of arms which seemed to hold a knife, a book, a flute, and an incense holder, which gently poured smoke out to vanish into thin air.

Finally, around 5am, the hallucinations were at a managable level (just vague undulations of the ground and halos around lights), so I decided to drive to the store. I made sure I was safe to drive by taking a test run around the parking lot. Sure enough, I was alert, and drove perfectly. Off I went to Rite Aid to get some chocolate! =)
With my booty in hand, when I walked out into the parking lot, I closed my eyes and recalled the feeling of the nitrous and the LSA. When I opened my eyes, the shadows seemed to play with each other and me in the parking lot- stretching out for space, then retreating, only to come back again- like a tide of soft blackness. I knew I had to go to the ocean to say a proper goodbye to my trip. The drive over the hill was uneventful. I almost thought the drug had worn off- although- if I had been tripping as hard as I had been a few hours beforehand, I never would have touched my keys.

I arrived at the ocean near dawn. I felt pulled to the waves- which sparkled- and suddenly, my trip was brought back full force. I felt like my old self again- the wide eyed innocent before the world intruded on my intrinsically optimistic beliefs. I walked out to the ocean, watching the ebb and flow of the waves, playing tag with the white, shining tide, and watching the stars glitter and occasionally multiply to form starbursts- my own private fireworks.
After a half hour, I called the Dennys by my house. My body needed food and rest in that order.

As I drove home, I was still enchanted by the interplay of shadow and light, but it didn't distract me in the least. I succcessfully bought my Moons over My Hammy and went straight home, goodies in hand. Once home, I had a few bites of sandwich, a rootbeer freeze, and a few chocolate truffles. The sun had come up, and so I took a few valium to ensure sleep. I also took hydrocodone- 40 mg. It slowly came over me in waves, and while watching the walls gently undulate and the television flicker cartoons, I drifted off into the Wonderland of my own mind.

I awoke at 1pm, feeling more rested than I have in a month. My pain level was down to a 6, and the memory and feeling of the night before stayed with me. Unfortunately, my eyes were still dilated, and I had a Drs appt at 3.
The bottom line is that Morning Glory is now one of my strongest allies. He is strong and a good teacher when I need him to be, and a generous tour guide through my imagination when I need a break.

I hope you all have a wonderful day. I can't remember a time when I last felt so free, myself, and so unburdened by cares and worries. It was truly amongst the best nights of my life.

Edit note: Eli came out at 8am, to find me completely knocked out on the couch. Apparently I still had the remote in my hand, with my arm fully extended. He tried to put my arm back so I could rest better, but apparently I wasn't in to moving. Oh- and I slept amazingly well the next night as well- with dreams I am sure were influenced by the LSA. Thank you Tlitliten!
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QUOTE from EndlessSky79:
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I was very surprised at the intensity of the experience as well! I've never experienced anything like it in my life..... I believe the fact that I work with the plant as a Shamanic ally usually plus the addition of the nitrous oxide literally threw my trip up onto the roof, whereas I expected a mildly hallucinogenic, mellow time. Also- every other time I've taken the seeds, I've ground them just as well, but thrown up the cold water extraction after an hour. Between the anti-nausea pill and the gelatin capsules, I believe it gave my body time to actually digest the whole amount of LSA. I will be repeating the experience with about 400 seeds after a few weeks. My brain definitely needs a rest, as does my body. =) Thanks for the welcome! I look forward to many more interesting experiences and reports while I'm here.
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QUOTE from EndlessSky79:
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Starshadow-

I so sympathize with the nausea problem...being ill sucks. Have you tried raw ginger? Candied ginger from Trader **** works wonders for regular nausea, as does 1 tsp freshly ground ginger put into a geletin capsule).

Now for your question: I was on compazine (25mg) for a while, but then suffered a phenothiazine reaction (apparently this class of meds can cause the pheno. reaction at ANY time- and after that you can never take them ever again as the seize will be worse.)

I was then put on Zofran- 8mg. Zofran made my MG experience possible. It works quite well....then, they give it to chemo patients, so it better ::grins::. Im sure your doc will try you on phenergan first (it's common and cheap) or compazine (see above comment about being common and cheap). =) Ginger (raw) is not, in my experience, strong enough to fight the nausea factor of MG, much the pity.
Thank you for noticing my description of feelings- for me, a trip isn't just 'pretty colors', even when I'm just going into it for recreational purposes.....I still get some level of spiritual work done. Besides, it wouldn't be a complete report without emotional status- enough people report freak outs. We need some good energy in the entheogen community!

As for the hull, once one grinds Morning Glory seeds in a coffee grinder (oh- be sure to grind in short bursts. LSA is VERY sensitive to heat, and it will be destroyed at much over room temperature.), you will be left with white powder (the main bulk), smaller tanish granules (the bulk that wasn't able to be powdered), and black bits- the husk. These bits are fairly easily picked out by hand. =) One doesn't even need to remove all of it- just the removal of the larger chunks was enough to make this trip amazing...but you read that already.
I hope your cat has beautiful visions. =) And I hope I didn't type so much that you got bored reading my response! Blessings!
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QUOTE from Shaganoz (shroomery):
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hm i find LSA just as good, if not even better, than as LSD. It's become my favorite psychedelic. And to whoever said he doubted the other guy hallucinated his balls off... sounds like you havnt had a real Morning glory trip and really SEEN its GLORY! I know for a FACT you can hallucinate pretty wild, I've seen the most remarkable things on LSA. True hardcore hallucinations, and to me it compares greatly with LSD. I usually just munch down the seeds raw, chew them very well and swallow. It may upset your stomach making you puke somewhat in the trip, but then it gets all fine again. I am however working on extractions these days to compare with raw seeds ingestions. My typical dose is around 800-1000 seeds, the most I have done was 1500 and then i tripped for 2 days straight. With hardcore hallucinations.
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QUOTE from pineal (lycaeum):
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prolix: that's great, i'm glad it worked for ya.
analog: yeah, i second everything you said there, man. For me, along with the euphoric sedated feeling, the visuals are freakin beautiful. Open-eyed, things do the melty washy visuals you get from this type of chemical, and like prolix said, your ability to imagine things and whatnot is definitely increased. And music sounds fantastic. good stuff.
pineal
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QUOTE from pineal:
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wow. I've never heard of it being sold on the street at all. I've found nobody even knows what the fuck lsa is. But i have found LSA to be sedative by nature, period, and that's what's been the biggest difference between LSA and LSD for me. Lsd's got that high-strung tweaky aspect to it, while lsa feels very sedating, almost mind-numbing, but thought stimulating at the same time.
And prolixity, post and let me know how it goes. I've done it along with 2 friends of mine, and it's worked for us. In fact the one time i did it using that prep method had to have been the best lsa trip so far. Hope it works well for you, man.
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QUOTE from pineal:
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As for chewing: i did this the first time i did MG, but damn the nausea was fucking unbearable. On subsequent trips until i learned this prep i'd just grind the seeds and encapsulate them, and horrendous nausea would ensue every time. And after a couple times of this i could just look at morning glory seeds and immediately feel ill. Ugghhhh...
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QUOTE from pineal:
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You won't find lsa on the street. No way...You'll find acid, sure...i've found when you just grind up the seeds and consume, my god the nausea is just too horrible. but here's a prep i've used, and i'll admit, when i was told how to do this, i was skeptical, but it really works.
1. go get your desired amount of morning glory seeds (i've found the perfect amount for my dog is 5 1.5g packets from let's say...home depot) and grind them up
2. put ground seeds in a glass, or some sort of see through container and juust cover with water
3. take the total volume (seeds+water) and add that much more water, stir vigorously
4. let it sit for NO MORE THAN 5 MINUTES. After five minutes or so, you're extracting all the crap...so stir about halfway through that.
5. filter the water through a shirt or something, to get the mush out
6. now filter with coffee filters over and over and over again, until your mind is numb from filtering. The more you filter, the less nausea.
7. now take the lsa juice and pour it into a full glass of Orange Juice. honest to god you won't taste it. gulp it down and you'll have a good clean trip, no nausea, for 6+ hours.
pineal
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QUOTE from undertowed_ (lycaeum April 2002):
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i took 5 packs of burpee heavenly blue... more like 4 or 4 1/2... i left a small pile cause i couldnt stomache it anymore... chewed a chocolate-chip cookie... dumped some seeds in the mouth... put another cookie in and chewed without gagging... repeate about 5 times... just the thought of the nausea the first time i did them makes me gag... almost right afterwards i smoked some grass and almost instantly i felt the effects.
this trip was different... the first hard lsa trip i had that wasnt a bad trip. all pain disappears in this place... my friend was shoving a thumb-tack in my arm for about ten seconds before i laughed and said 'what are you doing to my arm'. the effects were VERY close to mdma... almost made me wonder if the roll i had was cut with lsa (could have been). the usual reoccuring visuals i have from psychedelics came out to play... my multi-colored starbursted arrow-heads and lightning bolts... but now there were tribal aztec patterns all around... and actual images... everything was intertwined... it felt like i was swimming in cool water... the most pleasant thing i've ever felt... astounding chills all over the body... NO nausea... NO cramping or pain... 100% ecstasy.

i had a perma-grin... i found myself laughing uncontrollably at simple things... i sometimes found myself yelling very loud without realizing it... i noticed my friend meditating and decided to join in... i taught him how to work the astral doorways... we met in the astral realm in his apartment... i wanted to show him everything i could (he's against psychedelics... he's not mentally stable... so i wanted to give him a glimpse at 'the truth')... he nodded out... as soon as i nodded out he jumped up and yelled 'whoa... the entire room just turned black'... 'black with a phosphorescent-green outline?' i replied... 'yes... what was that' he said... 'that was me entering your world'... i said... he was shocked at the power i had in this place... i've been accustomed to it for years... we both nodded out... i appeared to him as a monk... i was through the doorway in seconds flat leaving him still on the couch... he said i disappeared insantly... all that was left of me was a star he picked up and looked at... he couldn't follow... he doesnt yet know how to enter a conscious dream realm... only a conscious dream of this world.

i was standing on an island... there was a round marble platform with 7 marble pillars... in the middle was a fountain spraying colors, sounds, emotions, words, feelings... truths... i bathed in it... a beam shot out of it... i saw the sun and the planets and the stars all in the light of day... this was my truth... i was teaching what this meant to a student in my dream... somebody else on the astral plane... i was their guide... i felt so high... i've encountered many guides on my astral journeys... this was the first time i was a guide to someone else in the realm... it felt better than i can explain... i pointed to the sun and said 'on earth as it is in heaven' i pointed to his head and said 'this is your truth'... then i became a tree... my branches were my ascending family... my roots were my descendants... my knowlege was my fruit... i nourished his soul with my fruit... i woke... everyone was looking at me... i was out for 5 minutes... humming and nodding... though i have no recollection of anything physical... sounds... body... anything.

i was astounded... all i could say was 'i... think... i was just in the garden of eden'...

we tried it once more, this time i summoned a dragon to take my friend with me... but the force of the dragon entering the room just pushed him out the front door of his apartment into the street... he did see the dragon outside of the window... but he didn't know i summoned it... he thought it was just a random thing... it's quite a phenomenon for two people to experience the same events in the astral realm... i was standing at a crossroads of life and death... to show my friend those parts of his mind... i asked him which path to choose... but he was gone... we woke and realized he couldn't keep up with my psyche so we stopped before we both exhausted our minds... lit up some more grass.

the rest of the night was spent laughing... swaying... running down halways wearing an american flag and a cowboy hat shooting 'spiders' with a joystick...

the peak...

i was lying on my friends bed staring at the ceiling... it's all bumpy and grainy... it started to sway like water... everything looked like water... i saw patterns within it... flowers... tribesmen... monkeys... insects... animal faces... it was amazing... then i saw a gigantic spider appear out of the wall... crawl to the center of the ceiling... stop... then (with eyes open) the entire room faded away to black... the gradiants on the ceiling reappeared in green... they were swaying... spiraling... moving... it was the most profound hallucination i've -ever- had... i simply couldn't speak afterwards... my jaw just dropped... eyes shot open wide... and a tear ran down my face while i repeated uncontrollably 'things like this once were not possible... things like this once were not possible...'... then i went home...

small peak at 3 hours... large peak at 5... effects lasted an hour into the next day... til 1 pm ( i ate them at 1 am )... some major euphoria the next day from how amazing the night was... still some psychological effects felt after grass smoked... just... burnt today... two days later.

all i have to say is... DO THESE... it's the most amazing psychedelic when mixed with pot... and it's legal... i had so many visuals and such a good body-buzz... amazing euphoria... i just with the ingestion process wasn't so tedious... i would have made a tea but had nothing to crush them with.
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QUOTE from Henry Bass, the book "tripping", 2000, page 149:
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Nothing remotely prepared me for the force of my final trip. One day, just before noon, I ingested some seeds with several friends, some who also partook and some who were there as observers or caretakers. We were lounging around the Manor, the ironic name we'd given to a seedy but spacious apartment near Harvard's Dunster House. After a while, I became sick and vomited so copiously I worried that the effect might be lost. I went to my bedroom and lay down and relaxed with my nausea.

Soon I found myself completely recovered, looking at a vast aquarium in the bottom of a glass of water. I remained fascinated with this for about an hour and then suddenly realized that what I was seeing had none of the attributes of a hallucination or dream. What I saw was indistinguishable from reality.

Excited, I ran into the kitchen and saw that someone had replaced my white Japanese lamp shades with bright red ones. This really shook me up, since it was "not" a hallucination. This was real, man! I felt completely sober and alert, while so many things around me had changed. My companions rushed in to see what all the ruckus was about, and I pointed out the red lamp shades, the wooden table that had become quartzlike, and all the new luster and colors that various things had taken on. I could see from the expressions on the faces around me that they did not see any metamorphosis in the lamp shades and moreover, didn't "want" to. A sour note! They were terribly disturbed at my insistence that everything had changed, that this time the drug had accomplished more than a dream. I could see they had no intention of joining me.

But I douldn't care less. Exuberant and overjoyed, I ran from the house, down the front steps, out into the street, flashed over three blocks in a matter of seconds, vaulted a fence, made a tremendously sprightly crossing of the highway--during which it seemed that traffic slowed and stopped so I could make my way--and ran over to the riverbank of the Charles to work out my ecstasy with somersaults on the grass.

I'd never experienced anything such as this. Even the insects sang for me in a multitudinous chorus. The range of my vision was vastly expanded. I couls see hundreds and hundreds of miles into the heavens and tier upon tier of cumulus clouds. After an hour of such unbounded bliss, I was totally exhausted from the mad runnings of my mind, as it vaulted head over heels beyond the limits of ordinary human thought. I grew too tired to think. Indeed, I have never been more enervated. After a long day's mountain climb, I always had a reserve charge of energy to make the final scramble over the last few rocks to the summit. But now I was completely drained.
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*editor's note: If a long cold-water extraction is done and a "soapy stringy" type of material is present in the water--I have read that this can be re-filtered out of the water with a wire strainer or similar to possibly arrive at near zero nausea. Pineal would often filter over and over up to 10 times with coffee filters to get it as clean as possible.

*editor's note: hermes mentioned that one of the only other persons that he knew of that bothered to do a cold-water extraction on the forum was pineal. Both as you can tell had excellent near nausea-free psychedelic experiences. Hermes would cold soak for around 30 minutes, and pineal would cold soak for around 5 to 10 minutes.

*editors note: In swim's part of the world, walmart has stopped carrying the seeds and the K-marts have mostly gone out of business (Sept 2006). If a particular batch of seeds has little to no effects, best to look into another brand and check date or freshness, how the seeds were stored--if stored in heat could have lessened the seeds effects, best results may come from seeds grown and harvested the same or previous season, stored in cool environment, etc. Check for prescence of extracted LSA amides with a blacklight (should glow bright blue) if final extract is a concentrated solution.

*Many thanks to all of you who have written me with your comments or described your trips for others to view.

QUOTE from Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon": "Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms.

golly · 09-18-06, 00:53

Interesting read...! thanx...

tregar · 09-18-06, 11:03

Thanks golly.

Last bit of valuable tips & insights to add:

QUOTE from hermes:
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Try more time and more water. The water was cold was it not? (Heat destroys LSA) Was it tap water? If so, the chlorine will destroy LSA. Try distilled water. Try also minimizing exposure of the stuff to light, as UV destroys LSA.

Also, sometimes the seeds you get are just plain weak. When did you buy them? Old seeds are less potent, I think, and during the winter, any available seeds are from last year's crop. Try some new ones come spring. Brand of seed seems to make a difference too. I seem to get better results from those grown in Holland. It usually says on the package where they are grown.

Also, I think you had too many filtration steps. Some of the LSA might have ended up in the T-shirt. It seems to me that when filtering mush, the most potent stuff is the slimy crap that stays in the filter unless you squeeze it through. I think a coffee filter is too fine and too weak to let this stuff through without breaking. Try filtering through a very fine, but strong, piece of cloth and wringing it, squeezing all the goo through. When you grind the seeds, don't grind them too fine. You want the dark outer shell-like part of the seed to remain in big enough pieces that it doesn't come through.

My favorite (because it is so simple) method is to grind the seeds and then put the powder in a big family size tea bag. I then place this into a glass of cold distilled water and squeeze the bag against the side of the glass periodically with a spoon. I usually extract for about 20 minutes like this, trying to get the most of the "milky" stuff from the bag without tearing the bag. If you want, after you do this and drink the water, you can even suck on the tea bag a little to get more out of it.

It seems to me that with longer extractions, more brown stuff (tannins?) gets into the water and at this point, I think the extraction has been too long. You want the off-white or slightly tan stuff, but not the darker brown stuff.

With this tea bag method, since you can't squeeze too much for fear of breaking the bag, the extractions seem to be slightly less potent, so you might need more seeds.

I find that I get moderate effects (great closed eye visuals, good insights, very mild open eye effects, powerful music enhancement) with about 10-14 grams of Burpee seeds.
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*editor's note: buchner funnel/flask/filter paper might possibly be helpful if needed to remove brown tannins. Sync and Meteor at ayahuasca.com were successful using buchner fliter setups to remove tannins from their HCL ayahuasca extract solutions to arrive at a potent & clean nausea-free ayahuasca (hcl evaporated off) powder that was then re-constituted in water at a later date:

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/vi...&highlight=hcl

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/vi...&highlight=hcl

This method incited quite a bit of controversy from the traditionalist at the forum who insisted that nausea should remain in the brew, the use of scientific materials & methods in the extraction process, etc.

QUOTE from hermes:
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Make sure, if you try it, that you understand dosage for each kind of seed. With Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, 2-10 seeds can work well. With Morning Glory seeds, 100-1000 seeds work well. Morning Glory seeds contain far less LSA, but are better in my opinion, since HBW seeds contain cyanogenic glycosides and are harder to come by. As far as Morning Glories go, the Heavenly Blue variety seems to be the most potent, although different brands vary in potency. Flying Saucers and Pearly Gates are weaker, and are much lighter in color. The best seeds are black, while the worst are light tan.

Always start with a small dose your first time to get an idea of how potent they are. 100-200 Heavenly Blues is a good starter dose, which should give a mild psychedelic experience with some mild closed eye visuals. Higher doses are required for paradigm shifting experiences, however. Doses around 1000 seeds can send you to Heaven or Hell. Be careful.

Also, you want to be more careful of high doses on LSA than you would on LSD since LSA has vasoconstrictive effects. It contracts blood vessels and so reduces circulation, which can make you numb or tingly in the extremities, and through frequent use of high doses, can cause gangrene and even loss of extremities in extreme cases. In moderate and infrequent doses that are well-extracted, you have no need to worry about this. Just don't mix LSA with other vasoconstrictive substances like ephedrine.

Also, pregnant women should never use any ergot-like compound, like LSD or LSA, as these can cause uterine contractions and induce labor. Actually, the compound doctors use to induce labor is similar to LSD and LSA, and I believe it comes from ergot, just like LSA and, with a little synthesis, LSD.

Don't think the MG seeds thing is just a myth, like smoking banana peels. It really works and so is also a serious and potentially dangerous drug, just like any psychedelic. Treat it with the same respect with which you would treat LSD, psilocybin, or mescalin.

You shouldn't take ephedrine with ergot alkaloids, as it is a vasoconstrictive compound and will increase the vasoconstriction caused by the LSA and its close relatives. You especially shouldn't take LSA along with ephedrine and caffeine and nicotine, as all of these drugs have vasoconstrictive effects. Gangrene anyone?

In fact, I have experimented with this combo (cold tea from 800 MG seeds + 50mg ephedrine) before and it made my extremites go very nearly totally numb. I had lots of intense tingling in my hands and feet, as if they had gone to sleep. During part of the experience, I actually had pretty significant pain in the veins in my hands. Besides, I noticed that for some strange reason, the ephedrine seemed to diminish the desired effects of the LSA. Really, ephedrine is a nasty drug no matter how you use it.

It seems to me that you will get less lethargy and nausea if you perform the water extraction and get a purer product. Those nasty nonpolar compounds seem to contribute a great deal to the lethargy, nausea, headache, tunnel-vision, etc. With a good water extraction, I get none of that.
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QUOTE (Sept 2006) from hermes:
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As for visuals, I can't even begin to describe most of them. And my memory of them is likely not very accurate since it has been a few years. I tend to translate the experiences into a form that I can remember, as the real thing cannot be represented with sober thought. The visuals are beyond representation for the most part. All that I can give you are general themes.

I tended to see what seemed to be a four-dimensional lattice structure that appeared to be "behind" things, as if everyday reality were just a bright projection that obscured the real luminous hyperspatial structure behind it. Things tended to have eyes and feathers on them. Often what dominated the visuals was a winged eye in the center of my vision. Often, instead of wings, the eye was surrounded by colorful mandalic geometric forms or organic patterns like vegetation. But it was very common to see a serene eye in the focal point of my visual field with all sorts of fantastic forms radiating from it.

I also saw lots of angelic forms and gothic celestial architecture, particularly when listening to Mozart's Requiem on god headphones while tripping with my eyes closed.

I saw a vision of a pyramid, floating in the air, with the Eye of Ra on it, and with a sword piercing it from beneath. The sword was entwined with two cobras, as in a caduceus. And around this pyramid atop a snake entwined sword were four large luminous feathered wings, each one a distance out from each corner of the pyramid, coming from beneath the whole figure and reaching above it, almost as though the wings were guarding it. This whole figure has obvious occult meaning. I just wonder why the images are so typically Egyptian in character, at least for me.

I have found many things similar to my visions in the art of Alex Grey. The eyes all over things, the energy lattices, and so on, are all very similar to what I have seen. Have you seen Grey's painting called "Dying" ? That eye-filled vortex pattern is something that I have seen. It seemed to me at least while I was tripping that the winged eye that dominated things was my soul, maybe something like the "ba" of the Egyptians. I once saw it rising up to meet the light, as if I was underwater seeing the sun above the surface and my soul was flying up to join the sun.

I also once saw a great field of eggs, above which was a giant watchful eye, surveying the field of eggs. Some of the eggs were cracking, and the cracks were lined with peering eyes. Every exposed opening was filled with eyes. And I could see myself as one of these cracking eggs.

Another time, I saw myself as a red dragon, what seemed to be my true form in this hyperspace, flying up, seeking the Source.

All of the visuals have a quality that I can't describe well, verbally or with illustrations. Everything in that interior realm seems made of subtle energy and is luminous. It also often seems to have more than three spatial dimensions. It usually has a very detailed and very ordered structure, very mathematical, but arranged with a kind of structural harmony that is never seen in the physical world. The structures are beautiful beyond description. It is like visual music, with the sizes and positions shapes seemingly related by some kind of precise law that binds everything together in the most perfect harmony. The flawed forms of our world compared to those perfectly harmonious ones of that world are like the cacophany of a cocktail party compared to a symphony by Beethoven. Visual order like that has never been seen in physical form, in the natural world or in art. Fractal geometry sometimes resembles it, but still falls very short.

I did some drawing while on MG seeds and discovered some principles of visual harmony that I hope to fully realize one day and apply to painting. I think that it might be possible to revolutionize design with laws of structural harmony the way that Pythagoras revolutionized music with his discoveries of the harmonics of sound waves. I think that current visual art is probably like music before Pythagoras, with artists not understanding the laws of form and just basically working by trial and error to get something aesthetically pleasing. Primitive music was sometimes harmonious, but the real stuff was not unleashed until music theory was well understood.

Much of my MG trips have revolved around harmony one way or another. Playing a didgeridoo while tripping taught me a lot about sound waves and resonance. It was wonderful! It was all very Pythagorean and makes me wonder if the discoveries of Pythagoras were not aided by similar compounds, maybe through something like the eating of ergot infected grain. Plato has spoken of similar things and alludes to them with his Allegory of the Cave. And it is thought that he was an initiate in the Eleusinian Mysteries, which may have involved the ingestion of ergot infected grain.

Seeing this celestial realm, I suddenly realized where all of the great architects, designers, and artists were getting their inspiration from! I could especially see it in the sacred architecture of the great gothic cathedrals, the great mosques, Indian temples, and so on.

Check out these Indian temples, which are somewhat reminiscent of some of the subtle luminous structures seen on LSA and other compounds:

http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~ruins/st...a1/india1.html

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...lingaraja.html

But what really struck me is how this harmonious order is everywhere in our universe. The universe is governed by mathematical harmonies. They determine the structure of everything. The whole shebang seems to have harmony near its root.

I don't even know how to begin talking about what I got into there. I think that one reason that I have not yet gone back is that it was all a bit much. I still have not digested it! I could make a career out of the insights I gained in just a few minutes of any one of my more amazing trips.

As is probably obvious, I think that there is more to this than just chemicals and the brain.
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*As far as Erowid reports, I found these two interesting due to the increased visual activity that resulted with lights turned off:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=21080

and this combination report:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=5316

golly · 09-18-06, 14:13

Lots of fascinating reports here...If we could just summerize it all somehow.
For instance, is it worth the effort to aquire Pet Ether for extraction when there are so many positive reports using just distilled cold water.....
If you were to create the best formula for a strong trip today ,how would YOU do it...?
The vasoconstriction thing is proly the biggest negative for this ole geezer..

but thanx again i've enjoyed this li'l post

Tregar...

tregar · 09-18-06, 21:17

Thanks Golly.

I will be dreaming of both methods (the cold-water extractions 1st) then maybe the high grade P.E. method second. Build a light proof brushless fan box for evaporation of P.E. from the seed mush with the P.E. method, will use 190% proof everclear and will be working under a red light. For the cold-water extractions, will be using a stirrer with stir bar magnet, two small strainers attached together to hold the family sized tea bags of mush dunked in a large glass holding the very cold distilled water, away from light, for a period of 5 to 7 minutes, then maybe filtering through a buchner setup with #1 filter paper--to post dream results here in a few months. A pinch of tartaric acid could be used to stabilize the solution amides in salt form in an amber light proof bottle. Will be trying different brands of heavenly blue's in my dreams. I don't dream of seeds picked directly from fresh plants, but maybe one day.

Ergolines are exceedingly sensitive, easily decomposed substances--sensitive to light, heat and air.

Herme's experiences sound very similar to my high-dose acid trips many many eons ago. I would also back then see "4-dimensional lattice like structures" spinning in mid-air with eyes closed with the most fascinating animated mathematically harmonious patterns--breathtaking, as well as Egyptian pyramids with the glistening sands, dragons in the air, and saw a trio of small white angels holding hands and slowly dancing in a circular motion around a bush in the yard. Music was also very much enhanced.

golly · 09-18-06, 22:41

Looking foreward to your "dream" experience ...In the meantime ,there's a fresh harvest coming in as we speak...I'm going for the water method...
And for the benefit of all the boys and girls out there.....Archive material..

tregar · 09-19-06, 17:57

Thanks, archiving would be a good idea. Looking forward to your experiences in the future.

Fresh seeds are best. There can be up to a 16 fold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced according to Mr. Cloud.

Mrs. Superweed saids the following:

"As the months pass stored seeds lose both their viability and their psychoactive properties. Broken or damaged seeds also swiftly lose both of these powers."

Below is information that I have not found (and cannot be found) anywhere on the web but is from 2 old sources:

Mr. Cloud states the following:

"The combination of genetic factors, environmental conditions, and soil chemistry create as much as a sixteenfold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced. Hormone treatment and attention to soil conditions and nutrients, however, go a long way toward maximizing the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest.

The ideal soil pH, or soil acidity, for producing seeds of high potency is around 6.5. Soil pH test kits are sold at nurseries and gardening supply outlets, which also sell formulas for adjusting soil pH levels.

Soils high in nitrogen and phosphates and low in potassium produce seeds of high lysergic acid amide content. Ideal soil potassium content for this purpose is approximately 1.5 parts per 100 parts dry soil. Soil tests kits sold at nurseries are used to check soil levels of nitrogen, phospates, and potassium. Individual nutrients as well as nutrient formulas sold at these locations are used to adjust soil levels of these substances.

In order to keep soil potassium content low, cultivators use sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate as a nitrogen source, and use sodium acid phosphate--as opposed to potassium acid phosphate--as a phoshate source.

Treatment with a hormone called gibberellic acid is used to maximize the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest.

Cultivators using pure gibberellic acid dissolve one gram in one liter of distilled water. When the plants are still seedlings, they add a few drops of this solution to the soil around each plant before watering. They repeat this procedure every two weeks as the plant grows, using more solution each time until they are using about a half ounce of gibberellic acid per plant when the plants are fully grown.

Timing is an important aspect of treatment with gibberellic acid. Since this hormone delays the maturation of the plants and inhibits production of flowers and seeds, treatment is discontinued a few weeks before the plants are to flower.

Morning Glories are planted in the Spring when there is no longer any danger of frost. The cultivation process starts by soaking the seeds in water overnight. An alternative to soaking is to nick the coating of the seed with a sharp blade.

The seeds are planted about one-half inch deep and at least six inches apart in fine, loosely-packed, light-textured soil. As the vine grows, they are supported on trellises.
Morning Glory seeds are harvested in the Fall at the end of the growing season, when the concentration of lysergic acid amides is at its highest. Morning Glory seeds are ripe when they have become dark and hard."

From Mrs. Superweed:

"The likely range in any species may fall between .005% and .079% total indole alkaloids in different batches of seeds. Freshly harvested seeds are best.

Sow seeds in their permanent location after danger of frost is past. The seed has a hard protective coat and may be slow to germinate. To hasten germination soak seeds in water overnight. Some experts advise cutting or filing the side of the seed farthest from the germ eye just enough that some white appears. I have tested both methods and found that the soaked seeds sprout faster and have a better chance of survival than the scratched seeds. Plant seeds 1/2 inch deep under fine soil, not less than six inches apart. Be sure to provide a fence, trellis or strings to support the fast-growing vines. If, at maturity, the vines do not seem inclined to produce flowers, stop watering for a few days and generally cut back on watering after that, but not so much that the plants wilt. This will hasten blooming. After that normal watering may be resumed.

Morning glories grow easily with very little care. Our task, however, is to get them to produce a maximum percentage of alkaloids. One factor influencing this is soil chemistry. Test your soil with a soil test kit, available for a low price at most nurseries. The soil should have a pH factor of about 6.5, a high phosphate and low potassium content. High phosphate concentration increases indole alkaloid formation. Low potassium content of about 1.5 parts to 100 parts dry soil aids free tryptophan accumulation and biosynthesis. It also produces a low indoleacetic acid content, which means that more indole alkaloids will be formed. This can be accomplished by using sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate for a nitrogen source and sodium hydrophosphate instead of potassium hydrophosphate to increase the phosphate content.

Experiments show that certain plant hormones also have a positive influence on the alkaloid potency of morning glories. A solution of one gram gibberellic acid in one quart water can be used on the soil around the roots once every two weeks. Begin this treatment while plant is in the seedling stage. Use only a few drops at first and increase the amount as the plant size increases so that when the plant is full size you are using up to 1/2 ounce of solution per treatment.

Gibberellic acid costs about $5 per gram at most chemical companies. It stimulates growth as well as alkaloid production. Therefore its use must be discontinued several weeks before flowering time. Further experiments indicate that growth-inhibiting auxins such as alpha naphthalene acetic acid can also increase the combinations of these substances on the potency of morning glory seeds. We are interested in hearing the results of your experiments. But even without the use of hormones and auxins amazing results can be achieved by employing the soil chemistry control method described in this article."

Bluejay · 09-19-06, 18:27

THANK YOU....

arahant · 09-24-06, 20:52

Anyone have any experience, or any idea how to aquire reagent grade petroleum ether in ontario? I don't see any listings for chemical supply houses in the yellowpages, I'm having a hard time finding anywhere that will sell/ship a regular container of petroleum ether on the internet. any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys

eastwood · 09-24-06, 21:32

good info.. thanks for the time you spent putting this together

golly · 09-24-06, 22:07

I'm having a tough time finding P.E. too , without some kind of pre registration- identification...So i'm opting for the distilled h2o method ..I'm not willing to resort to lower grade Pet either...

tregar · 09-24-06, 22:54

Hi everyone.

Yes, eastwood it took a long time to study this subject and put the info together...glad you like it! but I think I struck the goldmine when I discovered all of the postings by accident buried in the other forum (2 months later) from hermes. And even more so, when I contacted him and he sent me about 3 pages of new material and more trip reports (see Sept 2006 visuals report in post #26 for example.) He like me would like for this to remain underground and for it to not get much exposure--to leave it to those "in the know" as the quantity of remaining legal plant psychedelics is rapidly disappearing. But as you've probably discovered there are not many published accounts of morning glory trips. In fact, you would discover that finding incredible reports like those of hermes, nogal, stretchman, or peter webster is like trying to find a needle in a haystack amidst all the material on the internet or books. Even Peter Webster appears to have kept the trip reports of his trips to himself other than describing them as "just as potent as high-dose LSD trips" he's had. I am forever thankful that hermes shared as much as he has--he is also very intelligent and a great writer. Hermes mentioned to me that he sometimes regrets sharing so much about the seeds and says: "I have not used MG seeds for a number of years now. Recently, the only psychedelic that I have been experimenting with is salvia. But some of those MG trips are my most memorable. The profound religious experiences that I had with MG seeds are among the high points of my life. I am still working on some of the avenues of exploration that were initiated in at least one of those trips." Hermes saids "This kind of thing is best kept underground. There are only a few ways of accessing psychedelics without resorting to risky business or dealing with the black market. I, for one, don't want to get anywhere close to dealers." "Anyway, something that I will suggest and that I currently practice is to not promote MG seed use too loudly. It might be best to let people make mistakes and get nausea with them. The less positive attention they get, the less likely the gov. is to step in and stop legal seed distribution. "I actually regret having spoken so glowingly of MG seeds in the past. I would rather they have a reputation for nausea and only slight psychedelic effects. If everyone thought that it was a bogus thing like smoking banana peels, that would be fine by me."

I'm sorry I can't help if your unable to find the reagent grade p.e., but I don't see how you could go wrong either by using a properly-performed short distilled cold-water extraction. I think the real trick to this is getting fresh, potent, good strain/gene seeds (with a high indole content) that have been stored in cool conditions, and not sitting around in heat for ages--I would love to hear an experience of fresh seeds right off the plant. If any of you happen to live near one of the few remaining open K-marts then I think you would be very lucky there too, some over 300 under-performing stores were closed due to competition from Walmart and Target.

By the way, I ran 3 experiments thus far. I have past experience with acid, psilocybin, and cactus extract. I would be thrilled if I could experience visuals like hermes did using the holland grown fresh seeds. Heck, I'd be happy just to see even the most basic twirling geometric form with eyes closed at this point with the seeds. As an artist, I value the visual aspects highly of these entheogens.

Why am I so interested in the seeds? For one, its the VERY interesting visual reports from hermes, nogal, Peter Webster and others. Two, it is because if the visuals are anything like my past acid experiences (and judging from hermes reports they are very similar) then this is worth studying. Three, although I have had some very good and very visual experiences with psilocybin in the past, I believe like Dr. Hofmann that the psilocybin inebriation (and this may just apply to my own individual perception and not anyone else) is more darkly colored in the majority of cases than the inebriation produced by LSD. As Dr. Hofmann states in "LSD My Problem Child, page 174"--"The influence of these two substances is sure to differ from one individual to another. Personally, for me, there was more light in the LSD experiments than in the experiments with the earthly mushroom, just as Ernst Junger remarks in the preceding report." This is a clip from Junger's report on the page before: "These were the earthy mushrooms. More light was hidden in the dark grain that burst from the ear, more yet in the green juice of the succulents on the glowing slopes of Mexico...[Translator's note: Junger is referring to LSD, a derivative or ergot, and mescaline, derived from the Mexican peyotl cactus.]" There were 3 men including Hofmann who each took 20mg of psilocybin together that day--they all experienced a dark trip (the trip reports are detailed from pages 168 to 175. When Junger (who had much experience with mescaline) first tried Hofmann's LSD with him at a low dose, he remarked "your LSD is but a mere housecat compared to mescaline." He later took his words back when he tried a higher dose of LSD.

See post #24 and #26 above to read of herme's very visual encounters with the cold-water 30 minute seed extracts.

I tried a cold water extraction of about 300 seeds from an on-line entheogen supplier of heavenly blue's. I may not have ground that material fine-enough though. I used a coffee grinder, then used a mortar and pestal to grind after the coffee grinding. The crushed material was soaked for about 10 minutes.The water was white and light tan colored, but not brown. I drank the solution but noticed zero effects. (Next time I think I will use a stirrer with spin magnet to stir the solution for a period closer to 30 minutes but not to exceed this 30 minute time frame.)

I then did another cold-water extraction of about 400 more seeds from the same bulk seed batch--and again no effects.

I kept eveything out of light. I worked in a dark room with only a 40-watt red light (like the kind used for reptiles while they sleep). You can find them at your local pet store.

The next day I did a reagent grade petroleum ether extract of a different batch of bulk seeds from a different entheogen supplier (this particular batch #2 glowed 5 times brighter green in everclear that the light green glowing weaker batch in a same amount using 1 oz everclear).

The crushed seed material was soaked for 20 minutes with vigorous shaking in the p.e., then the material was filtered thru a coffee filter over a one-liter jar with a rubber band holding the coffee filter to it. The left-over jar of spent reagent p.e. was only slightly cloudy or dis-colored. After about 45 minutes...all of the p.e. was in the jar, and only the wet fine and semi-fine crushed seed material was left on the filter.

The coffee filter holding the finely crushed seeds was then put into a light proof brushless sparkless fan box, which has a brushless 4" cpu fan on either side of the black box with 90 degree black pvc pipes attached to the outside of the box as air inlets and exhaust outlets. The fan on the right (inlet fan) pushed air into the black box, and the fan on the left pushed air out of the box (the outlet fan).This kept light to a minimum entering the box, but kept air flow at a maximum. As a matter of fact, this box stayed extremely dark and kept virtually all trace of light out it. In the center was suspended a large strainer which held the coffee filter of finely crushed seeds to dry. The box was plugged in, and was able to completely evaporate any remaining p.e. from the seeds in very little time. 4" circles were cut on either side of the platic black file type box using a hole cutter mounted to a drill. Two circular 4" in diameter 90 degree elbow pipes were found (the insides of the pipe were painted flat black) and 4 small 1" angle pieces were used to mount the light blocking pipes to the box where the fans were mounted in the inside. This "evaporator" allowed the evaporation process to proceed rapidly free from light which is known to degrade amides.

The reagent grade p.e. works very well. The seed mush was evaporated of any remaining p.e. after only a few hours! I then let it sit in the box running the fans over night for safety's sake. In the morning the super-dry seed mush (very clean--had no smell or residue at all) was mixed with 3oz of everclear, and left to sit in the fridge for 6 hours with shaking every hour. The extract was then filtered thru a buchner setup, (this only took a few minutes and proceeded very quickly) and about an 8gram final clean seed extract was then drank. It glowed only slightly aquamarine (more of a green color -- definately not blue though) under a 40-watt blacklight. I got no effects, so I tried the remaing 6 grams on top of that--( a total of 15 grams or 500 seeds) again no effects.

I believe that the "bulk seeds" from the 2 different suppliers I had used were very weak and old, and I am weary of ever using another "entheogen" supplier of seeds as I don't get any dating on the packages indicating how old these seeds could be. In other words, there is no way to tell if you ever will get fresh seeds. I got no effects from either the cold-water extraction or the reagent grade extract. The reagent grade extract did a perfect job of eliminating any trace of nausea however. Practically all of the k-marts have gone out of business and I would be hard-pressed to find the very-potent Martha Stewart brand without making a very long round-trip road trip--but perhaps this Spring I will do just that. Not to mention, with it being Fall, all of the stores have put away their seed stock. When the spring rolls round, they will be back though.

In the next few months, I will be trying fresh seeds (from this year) grown in holland, and elsewhere. They are much more expensive.

Hermes mentioned that he had great results for many years with fresh seeds (dated the same year on the packs) grown in holland, trying two different suppliers of fresh seeds (both marked "grown in holland" on the packets). With the seeds I used, I don't where they came from or how old they were. I even shined a pocket flashlight into my eyes, then closed them to see if the after-image would develop into anything interesting visually--but nothing at all.

The seeds I used must have been very old indeed to experience no effects. Also next time, I will grind with the coffee grinder very very thoroughly to the point of bee pollen looking material--then mortar and pestal it very well.

Sorry, no trip report with this report, as I got no effects from these seeds. It must be true that the seeds loose potency after many months, or else I just had 2 really bad strains of old or very weak seeds. Yes, this is disappointing but I don't give up so easily. I will also be experimenting with an everclear extract of potent dried cactus. I have tried pure mescaline extract(75 to 100mg below threshold dose) before but it kind of made me feel sickly and nauseated--didn't really like the way the extract came out--even though it was just like it was supposed to be--it didn't agree with me that well, and it made me feel like I didn't want to try it again. Hopefully, an everclear extract will sit differently with me. I do know that a threshold dose of water-extract cactus was very spiritual and enjoyable, but was limited to a low low dose for fear of getting into the nausea regions with higher doses. I haven't experienced light or medium doses yet--which are needed to get to the visuals. I'm also interested in huasca or dmt with an maoi. I've read Benny Shannon's book on huasca and many of the interesting posts here at the Myc on it.

If anyone has any good visual experiences with cactus extract or huasca they would like to share, please let me know about this too--and also what level of nausea (if any) did you experience? Please describe your visuals.

Aldous Huxley and William Blake in the book "Moksha" from pages 61 to 67 describe incredible mescaline visuals: "When the eyes are closed, visionary experience begins with the appearance in the visual field of living, moving geometries. These abstract, three-dimensional forms are intensely illuminated and brilliantly colored. After a time they tend to take on the appearance of concrete objects, such as richly patterned carpets, or mosaics, or carvings. These in turn modulate into rich and elaborate buildings, set in landscapes of extra-ordinary beaty. Neither the buildings nor the landscapes remain static, but change continuously. In none of their metamorphoses do they resemble any particular building or landscape seen by the subject in his ordinary state and remembered from the near or distant past. These things are all new. The subject does not remember or invent them; he discovers them, "out there," in the psychological equivalent of a hitherto unexplored geographical region."

Now back on the subject....

Also, I performed a few seperate experiments with the 2 different batches of seeds. Batch #1 of 300 seeds from entheogen supplier #1 when soaked in everclear glowed only slightly aquamarine (light yellow-green) while Batch #2 of 300 seeds when soaked in everclear glowed about 5 times brighter (again, yellow-green, but brighter fluorescent glow to it). These were not consumed, but were just some experiments to gauge how brightly they would glow under a blacklight--to see if I could gauge any potency effects by glow. The extracts glowed a type of greenish fluorescent yellow but did not glow bright blue at all. Maybe this would explain the lack of potent amides in the seeds? Now that Halloween is near, it is easy to find inexpensive 15 and 40 watt blacklights at stores.

I failed to mention this earlier, but I also added 1/2 teaspoon (3%) of tartaric acid to the 3oz of everclear holding the dried seed mush while in the fridge for 6 plus hours with shaking to aid in the alcohol extraction and for conversion of the free base alkaloids to the more stable salt form. Ideally, the everclear/seed extract should probably sit for 3 days in the fridge but we still don't have any clear answers on this either until we get more results.

Report back in a couple months again after trying the more expensive seeds. The heavenly-blue MG seeds from the two different suppliers I used were INACTIVE, and also did not glow "bright blue" in an alcohol solution under a blacklight, but rather "yellow-green". The one other thing these early experiments taught me is that I no longer have to fear being nauseated or getting ill-effects working with the seed extracts--and for this I am thankful. There was no nausea (other than a slight heavy feeling in the stomach for a very short period in the beginning) with the water-extracts and absolutely no trace of nausea or stomach feelings with the p.e. extract nor was there any kind of "petroleum aftertaste/burp/odors" like there might have been using lesser grades. Please keep me posted of your cold-water or other method experiences if possible.

tregar · 09-26-06, 08:41

From what I've been able to tell by researching on the net, When you go to k-mart you are most likely just paying double the price for a pack of burpee seeds with her name on it. It's been rumored that the Martha Stewart brand is actually re-packaged burpee seeds, of which the MG seeds have been grown in holland.

tregar · 09-26-06, 20:49

The fact that my last step everclear extractions did not glow bright blue under a 40 watt blacklight obviously means that the two different batches of seeds I used were not active anymore...also taking up to 12 grams of the 1st batch and up to 14 grams of the 2nd batch cwe and p.e.e. resulted in zero effects. Peter Webster as well as Dr. D mention that their potent seed extracts glowed "bright blue" under blacklight.

If I get lucky and the next batch of (premium seeds this time not bulk seeds) glows bright blue under blacklight, I will definately take a picture and post it, as well as provide a trip report.

Bluejay · 09-26-06, 21:11

I just hit this next batch with HCL water(yes I was lazy and did not get the digital ph meter out. I plan of finding the right number for everyone.. my guess when I made it was shooting around a 5.)

I put alittle hcl water into the acetone after the LSA had been pulled and seperated from the seed pulp

Upon drying there isnt any trace of crusty brown solids only A PURE yellow oil. about a half gel cap full from 250 seeds or so(40 grams actually, are you gonna take the time and count.)

I will try this weekend...

tregar · 09-26-06, 21:12

Bluejay, what color would you say your extract looked like under a blacklight? I have looked at the pics you posted but maybe you could give me a better idea of what color it is.

By the way, are the mg seeds you are using from a dated pack or were they picked fresh from a plant or are they from a bulk supplier?

I was very disappointed in the cheaper bulk seeds.

Look forward to hearing your report with the mg's.

I have a few days off at the end of next week and will then be getting around to trying out the premium seeds with the reagent method 1st because I want to get to an alcohol extract to see if it glows a different color than the inactive bulk seeds, I also like this method since it had not even the slightest trace of nausea, I am just wondering how much decomposition is taking place when the evaporator fans are blowing over the amides for 4 to 10 hours, and this is why I will compare the results with a 20 minute cold-water extraction of same seed quantity and same batch.

cap · 09-26-06, 21:26

thanks for the book

skimmed and will get back to it when i can.
lots of trusty info here.

Bluejay · 09-26-06, 21:32

Blueish green.....HBWR glowed the brightest but yielded a very minimal oil...

I have not got past a strong cheek tightning smiley high yet.

Source,, a home grower,no packs... bought by the ounce....any light leaks and the glow is diminish alot in my opinion...

Acetone was chilled in the freezer over night also to minimize other crud being pulled in..

A old salvia extraction trick..Less plant chlorophyll would be pulled under cold temps. Maybe theres something this will work on in the seeds also..

AMT would crystalize out in the freezer in the same gin, I always had to let it warm to room tepm to be redissolved back in. Codien extractions follow the same rules also but I never really played with t 3's... Not my taste of a high to be honest.....

09-26-06, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

thanks for the book

skimmed and will get back to it when i can.
lots of trusty info here.

ditto

tregar · 10-02-06, 22:00

Well, today I tried a reagent grade extraction of 15 grams of "bulk type" seeds from a commercial grower that were marked "germination on march 2006 81%".

After 4 hours in the light-proof fan evaporation box, all of the remaining p.e. was evaporated from the very fine seed powder...the very dry powder was then added to 3 oz of everclear the night before and sat in the fridge for 10 hours--it glowed yellow under a blacklight. Also, if any of the good dry seed powder (after the 20 minute petro ether processing and 4 hour evaporation) was placed on a butterknife or rubbed onto one's hand, it would glow very bright "yellow" under a blacklight. The dry powder was about the consistency of talcum powder. Just thought I'd mention that also.

Never did I notice any of the processed seed powder or extracts to glow the good "bright blue" color...just "bright yellows with a touch of green" under the blacklight.

Felt no effects from 8 grams of seeds (1.5oz everclear extract) so then downed the remaining 7grams again with no effects, if anything was felt I would have to say that it was extremely weak, and definately no closed eye imagery at all. The seeds were ground to an extremely fine powder by hammering 1st, then put into a coffee grinder 2nd.

However, very soon I will be trying fresh premium seeds that I found locally that were marked "grown in holland" and marked for use in the upcoming 2007 season. I will be trying this with a 5, or 20min, or 30min cold distilled water extraction--as I'm getting rather weary of drinking 3 oz of everclear extract mixed with juice for over 3 times now. I'm not a big fan of alcohol. So far I've been nothing but dissappointed in the seeds I've gotten on-line, and look forward to trying the premium dated seeds.

If I get no effects with the primos, looks like I will be moving on to hcl extraction (10 to 15 drops in 250ml distilled water) of ayahuasca using corning ware on stove, then evaporation of the hcl off to leave a dry concentrated extract powder which can be re-constituted in hot water (and filtered thru a buchner funnel to get rid of any tannins, as well as decantation for a few days in a fridge) and drank 15 minutes after taking a caapi extract powder. This should result in a very low nausea and "clean" brew, such as sync and meteor have described and used over a hundred times over at ayahuasca forum. -- I'm inspired by the ayahuasca writings of Benny Shannon in "Antipodes of the Mind" and Graham Hancock in "Supernatural".

Any news yet Bluejay?

tregar · 10-03-06, 17:52

A 1/2 liter distilled cold-water extract of 11grams of premium dated pack seeds (1.5 grams or about 50 seeds each pack) resulted in a trip with mild psychedelic properties with a high-level of good anti-depressant qualities (and I haven't felt this good in a long while.) There was absolutely no nausea from the resulting cold tea, nor was there any weird feelings in the stomach, zero nausea. The extraction was a quick one -- only 5 minute soak of the tea bag filled with seed mush in the cold water (stapled shut) -- with filtering thru a t-shirt over a buchner funnel with vacuum applied of the resulting tea as an added caution.

There were no closed eye visuals though, and there was no melting or warping with open eyes. Perhaps my extraction was too short, it was only 5 minutes long--but I did agitate the bags several times, and squeezed them slightly against the edge of the glass, as well as stirred vigorously with a spoon the entire 5 minutes to keep the water stirring.

The water extract glowed a light aquamarine blue under the blacklight, was enjoyable but still did not quite feel like 1 hit of quality acid.

Next time, I will extract for around 20 to 30 minutes, then again filter through a t-shirt hung over a buchner funnel. Coffee filters or filter paper does not work well as it takes very very long for the water to filter.

These seeds were definately active but I was dissapointed that I didn't have any closed eye visuals, maybe I need to extract longer than 5 minutes. The powder was very fine though before it was put into the tea bag. I used a pre-hammering then a coffee-grind with short 10 second bursts over about 2 minutes. The resulting water was off-white and light dirty tan, but not brown.

There is definately something going on here, but will require more experiments with a possibly longer extraction. I did not experience sedation, but rather an enhanced relaxed energy and it was easy to clean the entire place in less than an hour. It was up-lifting and interesting to say the least, and this was the 1st time that I have seen the extracted filtered water glow a light aquamarine blue.

I will try one more final experiment over the next few weeks using a 20 to 30 minute extraction with squeezing of the large tea bag along with t-shirt buchner filtering. In the meantime, I am looking into ayahuasca as a means to achieve the long-sought after visuals/visions I am after if I have no further luck with the seeds. I have had incredible visuals and visions with high-dose acid many many years ago and perhaps ayahuasca as a serious teacher will allow me to once again experience this heavenly, spiritual, and mystic realm while learning the many lessons it has to teach.

I would definately recommend these holland-grown premium seeds to grow to get a fresh harvest if someone were looking to grow them, I feel they have great potential. I either need to use a longer extraction (20 to 30min) with more moderate sqeezing of the tea bag or a higher qty of seeds next time, but will go with an 8 to 10 gram dose next time with a longer water extraction. I felt like I was on the verge of tracers and visuals and enhanced pattern recognition in my surroundings, but didn't quite make it there.

If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

bigdirtyfoot · 10-23-06, 09:12

Hey I just wanted to say thanks and that this is a lot of information that is perfect for me right now as this is the kind of stuff I am looking for. I will be checking back here a lot in the near future to learn a lot more. Thanks again.

waj01 · 10-26-06, 19:26

I have had good results with the following. Also , I keep my seeds frozen and have not noted any problems wit long term storage

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MG Extraction- Electric Cranberry Juice
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Much easier and less toxic than the polar/nonpolar method. Taste good and no nausea.
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Grind I. purpurea (Pearly Gates) in coffee grinder to fine consistency.
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Add 8-oz cranberry juice cocktail from 12-14 oz bottle , shake, leave in refrigerator, and shake periodically for 3 days.
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After 3 days, strain very thick liquid to large Pyrex bowl with clean cotton used as strainer . Room temp filtration over night in dark area.
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Next morning, add additional 1 – 2 oz juice to wash residue (Note: All filtration is gravity only, do not squeeze.)
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In PM transfer thick liquid back to cranberry juice bottle (Hope you rinsed it out and saved it.)
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Wrap bottle in tin foil and store frozen in freezer. Thaw when ready to use. Taste best very cold.
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tregar · 10-26-06, 21:50

Nice work, can you describe your trips using this method?

Were the seeds fresh off the plant, from dated packs, or from an unknown bulk lot?

Did you have any visuals and if so, can you describe them?

Since you extracted (3 days) for longer than 30 minutes to 1 hour, did you experience any nausea?

Extracting for 30 minutes or so (if the water turns deep brown you have gone too long) will result in zero nausea according to Hermes. I had zero nausea with a 5 minute extraction..but next time plan to go 30 minutes or so. Letting the water extract sit for 30 minutes to 1 hour will allow the 3 ergine variants to form from ergine and iso-ergine via hydrolysis which are theorized by Peter Webster to cause the potent psychedelic activity. For more info on this, there is an entire chapter in the book "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess" (2006) describing Peter Webster's highly successful potent mg experiments.

I'm working with caapi vine and charuna now, and won't be doing any more experiments of my own with mg's until I can harvest fresh seeds from plants next fall...and I will store them in the fridge or freezer too. I think the heat is quite damaging to the harvested seeds, and would prefer to store them in a cold fridge. I will be planting the holland grown seeds, and them harvest the fresh seeds after the summer is done next year..then I will let you know if I have results comparable to hermes. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I plan to post my ayahuasca experiences in the next few weeks. I am using the hcl muriatic method posted by meteor and sync over at ayahuasca forum, and using buchner funnel with #101 filter paper to get all the nausea causing sediments out of the brew. I found a food saver with the vacuum port attachment to work excellent for hooking the hose (normally used to expel air from canisters) up to the side arm vacuum attachment on the buchner funnel--I was able to start and stop the vacuum process on demand--and the vacuum was very strong--I was able to vacuum filter the brew in only a few minutes instead of much longer had I used the hand pumps that came with them. This resulted in an outlandishly pure brown tea with caapi. The fine sediments in the brew are what cause the nausea and squirts. I was able to get rid of all sediments by vacuum filtering the brew once, then re-vacuum filtering the brew a second time--by the second time there was no noticable sediment left on the filter paper. The charuna was also successfully vaccuum filtered. I hope to achieve visions of landscapes, dragons, snakes, Egypt, aliens, etc. like those reported by Benny Shannon in "Antipodes of the Mind", and Graham Hancock in "Supernatural". I also hope to learn from the ancient brew. Wish me luck. For these dream experiments, you need distilled water, muriatic acid, corningware pots, vacuum buchner filter setup, vacuum source (hand pump or a foodsaver for easy automation), round filter discs to fit the buchner funnel, leaf, vine, sledge hammer, coffee grinder, and a pyrex baking dish or two set under a fan blowing to reduce the small amount of concentrated liquid off. This is the liquid that has been reduced on the stove in the corningware pots after it has of course been vacuum filtered. Line the pyrex dish with saran wrap, and then the dry herbal extract will peel off the saran wrap instead of having to be scraped off the dish--for example, 30 grams of vine should reduce to about 5 to 6 grams of hard waxy extract, and 30 grams of leaf should reduce to about 15 grams of powdery tan green extract. These are re-combined in hot water at a later date then drunk. No nausea, no squirts, or so meteor and sync and many others claim if using the hcl method with vacuum filtering.

Keep us informed with the mg experiments, this is very very interesting.

waj01 · 10-28-06, 14:11

I only did trial with 8.2 g (231 seeds) from a well known on-line vendor. Visuals were "persian carpet type". No nausea, perhaps due to the 3 days @ 40 degrees , gravity filtration only ( no squeezing marc), and acidic (2.5) juice?

tregar · 10-29-06, 00:27

Nice work, persian carpet style visuals...no nausea...hope to hear more experiences in the future.

fingers · 10-30-06, 23:25

What strange and rare coincidence,

I remember a member with that exact avitar a while back tregar ...

In any case, if ur new to topia ...welcome back... oops i mean 'welcome!'

Fingers

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08-23-06, 21:03	#1 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts This is my first post at Mycotopia. I've been a long time reader however for many years. Recently I read a book entitled "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006). I found chapter 15 of this book very fascinating as it describes the successful morning glory extract experiments of chemist Peter Webster (who spoke at the Jan 2006 LSD Symposium in honor of Dr. Hofmann). Peter has an interesting theory about how he was able to produce a mind blowing extract that encompased all of the qualities of a powerful psychedelic experience. My research didn't stop there. Later I discovered that William Moxley, Trakman.du, Stretchman, Dr. D and some others had also discovered how to make an intense, lucid and very visual extract of morning glory seeds. These same people also mention that the extracts were not only lucid and enjoyable but also were free of nausea and body load symptoms--normally attributed to eating the seeds or using cold-water extractions. Read on to learn more about this fascinating subject....and the theory proposed by Peter Webster. Notice in the thread furthur below (from the giganthum LSA thread from the Lycaeum) that Stretchman obtained excellent results from the tincture solution he made....but when he evaporated down his extract to a tar, it was found to be not anywhere near as powerful or enjoyable as the tincture. Perhaps Peter Webster is on to something with his explanation of why the solution extracts are so powerful vs. other forms. He saids that in a solution, the 3 conformations of ergine are formed (usually takes more than an hour or so to reach equilibrium) and that these variants are allowed to reach the brain in an equilibrium state and affect a very powerful psychedelic trip (when prepared as an extract solution) at the brain receptors....theorizing that these 3 variants (hince 3 drugs) are way more powerful than a chemically pure synthesized ergine or iso-ergine (such as Hofmann tried) in inducing what's being described as very lucid and powerful psychedelic experiences by those who have duplicated an extract or solution similar to his. The chemist Peter Webster created a very powerful morning glory extract syrup that induced a profound psychedelic experience and stated "Ever since it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanantion is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the orginal extracted ergine to the three ergine variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone." He states that "the equilibrium mixture of ergine and iso-ergine may actually be the psychoactive substance of the kykeon, and of ololiuqui as well. Since ergine spontaneously changes to iso-ergine when in solution, over a period of perhaps several hours, any process to partially hydrolyze the alkaloids of ergot such as our proposed recipe -- or even the Aztec shamans' procedure for extracting ololiuqui -- should result in a mixture of the three states represented here." These are ergine-boat conformation, ergine-chair conformation, and iso-ergine chair conformation. For more detailed chemical explanantions refer to the brand-new book "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess and the Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006) by Carl A.P. Ruck with Peter Webster (chapter 15). Stretchman below describes his extract (as Trakman.du also described it over at Erowid) as very powerful, lucid, and visual. In his words, "Preparing a tincture like above will result in a standardized (I mean 'same effect each time') highly lucid trip packed with lively vids." By vids, I suppose he means videos or visuals. He also saids "the tincture provides an experience which would seem to combine the best qualities of a psilocybe mushroom trip with the best qualities of an LSD trip, with zero body load or weird symptoms (aside from the entheogenic state itself)" Stretchman also saids "I've tried a shit-load of psychedelics, and this is among the best of them, if not THE best.", and "the tincture showed me a magical wonderland of endless vistas and the solid extract stomped a fucking mudhole in my ass." The experiments he did may show the importance of having the product in a solution so that equilibration of ergine/iso-ergine can occur, and thus the powerful activity of the brew. Peter Webster described his extract: "a few milligrams of this extracted syrup taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by this time I had allready taken high-dose LSD several times." Trakman.du saids that his tek (use only reagent grade petroleum ether from a chemical supply house) provides a clean, pure, intense and particularly enjoyable experience out of doors in the daytime due to what the sun does. The extract gives you "A complex of various lysergic acid alkaloids which are psychoactive to varying degrees in isolation, but which taken together produce a full blown psychedelic experience no less powerful than that produced by LSD." Trakman's tek (as many of you may allready know) is found here: http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...lory_faq.shtml However, Trakman states that the many un-inspiring trips reported by people at alt.drugs who used his tek is due to them using Naptha, Zippo, Coleman, or other grades of hardware-store variety petroleum ether. Only reagent grade petroleum ether from a lab supply will work properly--the other lesser grades will dissolve a portion of the LSA's, rendering the final solution very weak or to even have no effects at all, so stick with reagent grade--it's the only one known to work properly these days for the extraction. Between 1972 and 1983, K. TROUT ate Ipomoea violacea seeds or seed-extract several dozen times with wildly varying results ranging from powerfully colorful visuals to sedative effects. Bigwood 1979 states that "It seems probable that the psychoptic effects produced by these seeds involves an interaction or synergism between two or more of the chemicals present, Hofmann only evaluated pure alkaloids not mixtures. It is also possible that higher doses of ergine may be more likely to produce visual effects, as was the case with ergonovine." Jonathan Ott in "Pharmacotheon" page 128 states "Hofmann's description of perceiving the "unreality and complete meaninglessness of the outside world" after taking 2 milligrams of isoergine (Hofmann 1963), however, sounds like the paradoxical depressant effect experienced commonly with threshold doses of psilocybine and other entheogens, and it is possible that isoergine is visionary at higher doses." Listed below are a few descriptive quotes from authors who experienced powerful visual morning glory trips by preparing the seeds in a manner that for them resulted in potent extracts: QUOTE: (by anym who used a traditional cold water extraction and also wrote an extensive tek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The cold water extraction is the better way to go! Remember, water is a highly polar compound. It will only dissolve the desireable polar stuff in the seeds. It will not dissolve the unwanted stuff. So if you soak the seed mush in a fair amount of cold, distilled water (a full glass is what I usually use), the water will dissolve the alkaloids in the seeds, while leaving behind the nasty stuff. It is unnecessary to use the nonpolar solvent because the water will not pick up that nonpolar stuff anyway. That nasty stuff will just stay put in the seed mush. Remember that oil and water don't mix. Just for educational purposes, take some cooking oil and pour it into a glass of water. The two will separate into layers, with the heavier water on the bottom. The bad stuff is like this oil. It will not go into the water. So you filter this water and get all of the seed mush out of it. You don't want the seed mush. YOU THROW THE MUSH AWAY!. Don't eat it, or you'll defeat the entire purpose of the extraction! Factors that will destroy LSA or otherwise mess up the extraction include light, chlorine, heat, possibly other impurities in the water, too much time, too little time, poor filtration, poor grinding, etc. To make sure that no impurities in the water like chlorine will destroy the LSA, use distilled water, or at least boil some water and let it cool until it is cold. The water should be cold. If it is warm, it might dissolve a small amount of the bad stuff and heat will also destroy the LSA. The colder it is, the more the extraction is limited to the most polar compounds. Room temp is probably okay. Do not expose the ground seeds to very much light. Light destroys LSA. You want to filter well to avoid retaining fine mush in suspension in the water. Extract for about 20 minutes. I will lay out my favorite and simplest method here: Supplies needed: seeds, 1 glass, 20 ounces of distilled water, 1 large (family size) empty tea bag or 2-3 smaller ones, Coffee grinder, spoon, bowl, a sifter or splatter screen or something similar, paper towels, stapler, a touch of liquid hand soap. Procedure: 1. Remove seeds from bags and count the number you would like to use (I recommend at least 400, and at most 600 for the first time) 2. Wash whole seeds briefly to remove any fungicides or other seed coatings. Do this by putting the seeds into a bowl and covering with some cold water. Put just a touch of hand soap in the water. Work the seeds around in the bowl with your fingers for about 10-20 seconds. 3. Rinse seeds. Put them in the sifter or on the splatter screen and rinse with cold tap water until all the soap is gone. (It is probably a good idea not to have them in the water too long, as the water might get into the seeds and remove a little of the alkaloids.) 4. Dry seeds. Do NOT use a blowdryer! Dry them well with paper towels. 5. Once they are dry, grind them pretty thoroughly in a coffee grinder, but not to the point of a fine powder. You want the black seed hulls to remain a little coarse. 6. Put the grounds into the empty tea bags and then staple the tea bags shut. Leave some breathing room in each bag since, when wet, the seed mush will expand and might break the bag if it is too full. 7. Put the tea bags into the glass which you have filled with cold distilled water. 8. Aid the extraction by getting the water into the mush. Some will tend to clump and remain in an air pocket. Use the spoon to submerge the bags and to squeeze them gently against the side of the glass. Also, you can lift and Dunk the bags repeatedly to help extract the LSA. 9. Leave glass to sit in a cool dark place for ten minutes with spoon on top of bags to keep them submerged if they are trying to float. 10. Go back and work on the bags some more with the spoon. Be careful not to tear the bag. If you do tear it and mush leaks out, you will have to filter the water. 11. Leave glass to sit for another ten minutes. 12. Work with spoon some more and then remove the bags and squeeze most of the water that remains in them into the glass. 13. DISCARD BAGS! THROW THEM IN THE TRASH! THE SEED MUSH IS TRASH! 14. Drink water. "I am not too sure if it helps or not, but on some occasions I put a few squirts of lemon juice into the water to acidify it, possibly aiding alkaloid solubility. A note on seeds: You want plenty of seeds. You also want the black ones, like the Heavenly Blue variety. (the Flying Saucers and other light-colored ones are weak) You want fresh seeds. Last year's batch will be weaker. You also want seeds that are not stored in a hot place. You might experience a little nausea, but nothing too difficult. And if you did everything right and had good seeds, you can expect to feel effects within an hour or an hour and a half. I usually fast for at least 8 hours before consuming. I don't know what difference it makes. Always be sure that you are in the proper setting and have the right mindset. Ignore these at your own risk. You could have a very unpleasant experience. Chances are that you will feel quite different, having a dramatically altered mind. You will also have perceptual changes, like increased pattern recognition in things like the carpet, the walls, or anything really. You will have closed eye visuals, which are enhanced by good music. You might have mild open eye visuals if you consumed a high dose. Usually, even at lower doses, colors will look more vibrant, smells will seem more powerful, slight halos will appear around light sources, everything will seem crisper and brighter. Your pupils will dilate. You might feel some strange body sensations, like mildly achy joints in the knees, a funny feeling in the lower spine, tingling teeth, etc. Your hands will probably feel clumsy and clammy at first. The experiences induced by Morning Glories can be quite intense, and are nothing to sneeze at. Be sure you are prepared and are psychologically healthy. If you are borderline psychotic, depressed, or manic, stay away! Avoid really high doses of LSA. LSA causes vasoconstriction, which means that your blood vessels get smaller. This results in lower blood circulation to your extremities, like toes and fingers. If the dose is too high, or it is taken too often, this can have a cumulative effect, and your extremities can go numb and even become gangrenous. With reasonable doses spaced apart at least two weeks, this shouldn't be a problem. But this is one reason that it is a good idea to start with a small dose, to make sure that the vasoconstriction isn't bad. If you have high blood pressure, LSA might not be a good idea. And do not take it in combination with other vasoconstrictive compounds like ephedrine and caffeine. I think that nicotine might be vasoconstrictive as well, but I am not sure about this. Be safe. And don't do it just to "get f#@ked up." Take a spiritual journey. Learn from it. Explore yourself. My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole! On other occasions with LSA (I took it while in a less than ideal mind state), I felt like I went to Hell. Everything was empty and awful and terrifying and lonely. I felt like there were worms boring through my brain, eating it. I was a hole. That is the only way to describe it. I felt vacuous. I trembled with horror. Everything felt so incredibly meaningless. I hope your experiences will take you to nice places. Be careful. Your brain is not a toy. Consider yourself warned." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Carl_Ripken at Mycotopia) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A friend and i tried the cold water extraction. After Washing and rinsing, we didn't have a coffee grinder,so we wrapped the seeds in tin foil and dropped a 25lb weight on them repeatedly.Thus resulting in a course powder.So we packed the seed into 4 tea bag's then simply dropped them into Slightly less than a gallon of distilled water.My friend and i wanted the lsa experience to happen outdoors,so we grabbed a cd player and some clean drinking water,and off we went. i was skeptical at first, until the lsa cranked up my reality. I had not eaten anything all day so it matabolised into my system quicker.By the time my friend started to trip i think i was peaking.The visuals were amazing, seemingly generating from random math. All throughout the trip i saw complex patterns,but these patterns would take me places. At one point i was in a open air market walkng a cow through its isle's. Other times i saw beautiful architexture, and random people. I felt radiant and peaceful all throughout the trip.Thank you for this Very good and easy to do extraction. I also got a coulple of batches from the same tea bags.As the seeds are a little expensive and i did not want to waste any." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (from Nogal at the Nook) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Yes I know of someone who tried this exact method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffe grinder in place of a stone metate (I think thats what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form(again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin). The only negative reaction experienced was a cramping and spasms of the inner thigh muscles which is mentioned in another post in the botanical forum. The cause of this is unsure, but hopefully someone will clear that up. Hope this is of help to you." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (from William Moxley, chapter 3 of "Center of the Universe") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The extract of Ipomoea violacea that we had prepared radiated power, just sitting there in its flask. A light amber, odorless syrup which, in the darkened laboratory fluoresced brilliantly blue under ultraviolet light, it was an extreme contrast with the series of messy, difficult to purify, dark-colored and discouraging volumes of intermediate sludge we had treated, and brought to mind the Curies and their arduous separation of a few tiny crystals of glowing radium from a mountain of pitchblende. The difficulties had, however, taught us much about ways in which we would modify our processes for future work. As for the extract, the following day would see the first test of its activity, with myself as the guinea-pig. I was by this time hardly a novice in self-administration of my own preparations or in the estimation of what effects they might have. I was, in fact, quite adept at taking most any supposed substance of enlightenment and avoiding nasty complications if the brew turned out to be bogus. On many occasions in New York, more than a little caution had been required to avoid not only the classic "rip-off" but also the inevitable dangers that Prohibition naturally produced. Once, a purported sample of magic mushroom I was offered proved to be only a few wasted store-bought champignons laced with powdered datura seeds. Although hallucinogenic, the experience of datura was not the least insightful, nor did it leave me with an experience which hinted at dimensions normally closed to everyday perception. I spent a few unpleasant hours also with Owsley's famous STP, which in the original dose was far too potent for human consumption. Fortunately I took only a quarter-dose, there having been evidence of difficult times for others with this synthetic drug. The morning-glory extract provided not a nasty surprise, but a powerful surprise none the less. It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered. Perhaps the methods of our extraction had yielded a product more representative of the shaman's recipe than the preparations obtained by other investigators, who reported only modest psychedelic effects. The experience of that day was hardly modest, from the beginning moments it certainly did not fail to inspire reverence and humility, no matter what the direction to which I managed to guide it. The colors and geometric patterns, the rippling waves so often seen in watching clouds in the sky, the slowing of time and other typical effects so frequently described in the literature had some time ago become only minor and unattended aspects of psychedelic experience for me. Certainly, I still noticed these effects, if I took the trouble to pay attention to them. But the psychedelic experience had become for me far more an arena for the Herculean task of attempting to achieve the truly original perspective for viewing the fundamental questions that man has posed since the beginning of time. It was the task of freeing oneself completely from preconceptions, from habits of thinking that affected the outcome of seeking in unknown and unconscious ways. And of course, it was paradoxical, if not impossible to erase these filters of comprehension completely. To a very significant extent, comprehension consisted of these filters. Nevertheless, the psychedelic experience seemed to go quite a good distance in providing this ability, if one were ready to use it. Particularly the experience of that day." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times." "Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Peter Webster, page 6 "Mixing the Kykeon") --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Years ago, with the threat of my impending draft into the U.S. Army for an extended tour of Southeast Asia, I decided to "go on the lam," and departed for Mexico with the intention of researching the distribution and chemistry of some of the famous Central American psychoactive plants such as the ololiuqui. It was during the course of these investigations that I prepared astonishingly powerful extracts of ololiuqui, alluded to above." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Peter Webster, page 4 "Mixing the Kykeon") --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Although several self-experiments with ololiuqui (seeds of two species of morning glory) or with its purified alkaloids ergine and isoergine have been inconclusive (see the mentioned examples in part II of this paper), I can personally assure readers that the alkaloids of ololiuqui are, when prepared correctly, quite capable of producing the entire range of powerful psychedelic effects. Ergine and its stereoisomer isoergine are the two principal psychoactive compounds of ololiuqui, and also the major alkaloids found in C. paspali, yet they are not found in C. purpurea." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Dr. D in alt.drugs newsgroup, topic "morning glory notes") -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. D from dejanews or googlegroups describes his extract in these words: "I took a large dose of my extract (I had purified it further using a back-extraction into chloroform, evaporation, and re-formation of the salt form), and it resulted in a very powerful experience indeed (this was back in the 60's). In some meaningful way, I felt different, and still do!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. D notes these tips in the thread "morning glory notes": " an189...@anon.penet.fi wrote about morning glory experiences, and was questioned by jell...@jax.jaxnet.com about drying. >... I know they came untreated because there >were some tiny rocks mixed in with the seeds. I dont see the connection here, but mg seeds that are treated to avoid rotting before germination must be labelled as such. Check out seed packs at the same stand: treated seeds are labelled with large usually purple colored warnings, the law. There is no conspiracy to poison a few aging hippies (or new trippers) with secretly doctored mg seeds. >I decided to get a sample of the effect... Your experiences are practically a blow by blow replica of those reported by Humphrey Osmond and ott early (1950's 1960's) experimenters. Very typical reactions >My next step would be to attempt the extraction which is documented in >the Morning Glory FAQ. So I took 700 seeds and ground them up into a >power in my coffee grinder. It has not been stressed enough that the grinding is very important. After the coffee grinder you might try a mortar and pestle grinding, or an apparatus used to grind flour. Very vigorous grinding is necessary to ensure that the embryo of each seed is well pulverized, for nearly the total alkaloid content is in this small and rubbery part of the seed. > I then put MG powder into a small glass >container and decided that I would use starting fluid as my first >solvent. Since you found that this solvent added an aftertaste to the extract, I question the necessity of this step. In the original research paper describing the extraction of mg seeds, the pet ether preliminary extraction was simply to remove fats and oil from the ground seed material so that these products would not interfere with the ANALYSIS of the alkaloids which was carried out by paper or thin layer chromatography. I doubt whether the pet ether extraction removes anything that interferes with either the alcohol extraction or with the experience. >Next I used EverClear (150 proof) as my alcohol solvent. I mixed the >ground seeds with 4 shots of alcohol and let this mixture soak for 4 >days. I extracted a large quantity of seeds with 80% ethanol, to which I had added a small amount of tartaric acid. Since the alkaloids are basic and form salts with tartaric acid, the extraction is improved into alcohol-water mixtures. Stirring the mixture in a mixmaster blender at high speed also helps. And if you can rig up a simple vacuum filtration unit, the filtering will be easy, and allow an easy second extraction of the seed cake. All this can be accomplished in an hour or two, I would avoid leaving crude extracts for days, as the alkaloids are very sensitive to decomposition. Also avoid, if you want to evaporate some or most of the alcohol, doing it in a way that exposes it to heat and especially bright light. Putting it in sunlight will kill it. Put it in a jar in a pan of warm water and gently blow a stream of dry compressed air at it. Look at the extract in a dark room with a common "blacklight". It should fluoresce bright blue. " William Moxley (from chapter 3 of "The Center of the Universe") describes his extract as glowing bright blue under a black light and "A powerful surprise, It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered." Here is the beginning part of the giganthum thread on LSA over at the Lycaeum (from 1995 or so): QUOTE: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "EDITED BY STRETCHMAN: The goal of this thread, as it now exists, is to narrow down a particular hypothetical means of extracting lysergic acid amides from the seeds of Ipomoea tricolor (morning glories) and similar plants. Although many theoretical processes have been voiced by this community, there is no established "TEK" contained within this thread. Myself and other Lycaeumites continue to speculate on the best way for such an extraction to be accomplished IN THEORY. Ultimately one hopes to be able to develop a hypothetical method in which the hypothetical average Joe could release the full power of this plant using common household materials instead of dangerous, environmentally unfriendy NP solvents and suchlike. Essentially, this thread, being as lengthy as it is, still should be read in its entirety, as it is still a work in progress at the time of this writing. Please keep in mind that in most places it is illegal to work with this plant in this manner, so if you choose to post here (or anywhere else on Lycaeum) choose your words carefully. I occasionally edit out any fallacious assumptions I tend to make from time to time. However, I'm sure some do exist. Therefore this document is to be considered fallible, until a TEK can be established. I am inclined to edit out my more arrogant statements in my posts, as well as posts that were made under the influence of excessive alcohol. However I view this document with a certain degree of sentimentality because it was my second post ever on these forums and I have grown slightly attached to it. I am therefore hesitant to remove its uglier portions, basically on principle alone. (Cruisin' on the Poopship) current listening: Ween - Live at Stubb's - Austin TX - 45 min. version of L.M.L.Y.P. Grateful Dead - "China Rider" The Raincoats - Moving Author's note; this document has been heavily plagiarized by me. I owe gratitude to an unnamed source who posted it god-knows-where around 1995 or so, the days of my flaming youth. Were it not for this individual, this shit could not occur. Flame me, sue me, or whatever, but I won't divulge my source. This is partly due to my unwillingness to incriminate anyone, partly due to I seriously don't remember where I found this. So kudos to you, anonymous researcher. May your feces smell like roses and may you lie with innumerable houris in the afterlife etc. etc. blah blah. This is destined for a certain forum so if you're still around, post something if you're really pissed off that I took such liberties with your work. I just want to get the word out and I'd credit you if I could, but that's not really cool, now is it? Now, to the work at hand. I have noticed a tendency for these forums to be filled with misinformation and general ignorance, especially about the subject of LSA's (lysergic acid amides). 1. They (LSA's) are not LSD, although, in my opinion, they work much better. 2. They (LSA's) are just as illegal to possess as LSD (ie. highly so) when in the LSA stage -so possession of the seeds required is not illegal (up to a certain quantity), but possession of the extract is (only if the pigs know what it is). 3. A water-based extract from the seeds, although the preferred method of indigenous ("primitive") people, is not necessarily the best. When one goes this route, one encounters the chance of the following; -a feeling of nausea due to certain compounds in the seeds _a reduction of trippy potential due to these same compounds This phenomenon is most likely responsible for the negative reviews of LSA's currently viewable in Erowid's trip reports. It seems like nobody knows what he/she is doing!!! Grrr!!! Rant!!! Staying true to the methodology used by indigenous ("primitive") peoples is highly admirable, EXCEPT when one voluntarily ingests something harmful along with the desired entheogen, goddamnit! That said, the following method is probably not for purists. Although the end product is one of the best "hallucinogens" I have ever ingested, if not THE best - and I've taken a shitload, please keep in mind that all this took place about ten years ago and I am now a hermit, (as of several years back), devoted entirely to my sobriety, and I could not possibly encourage anyone to follow this recipe, as this would possibly violate laws, and probably get someone wasted in exquisite fashion, which is "wrong" - or so I infer from the existing propaganda available on the subject. Now, to business; -Acquire a large quantity of morning glory seeds. Keep in mind that 500 seeds equals one decent dose. Experiment on your own to find the gram/seed ratio which I have long since forgotten. Therefore, supply yourself accordingly (this could get expensive unless you grow your own). The following seeds have been used to awesome effect: Heavenly Blue... yeah! Nice! Pearly Gates Flying Saucers Choose organically grown! Either that or spend a long time washing your seeds with dish soap, and that method is not exactly foolproof for ridding your seeds of any extracurricular poisons the nice people at the seed company have seen fit to include (!!!). -Also invest in some Petroleum Ether. This goes by the name of "Naptha" or "varnish and paint maker's Naptha", available (last I checked) at (large hardware store) and other places. NOT to be confused with diethyl ether, which is some bad shit, has to be disposed of by the bomb squad, etc. Don't fuck with that, get yourself some "pet. ether". Ostensibly free from aduterants, pet. ether is a handy solvent to have around the house. -Now, get ahold of the highest proof alcohol you can possibly obtain. Clear Spring grain alcohol is one of my favorites (180 proof) but the quality of the end product rests upon the highest proof alcohol you can get your hands on! Reagent grade ethanol, or some 200 proof shit from some reputable moonshiner (better make damn sure he/she's reputable, don't want lead poisoning from some refurbished auto part that has found new lfe as part of someone's still, add'tl info avail. online, utfse y'all). In a related note, 151 Rum is not recommended by my source. He/she seems to think that a 100 proof beverage is preferred over any 151 rum. Hmm? is it because rum has other shit dissolved in it that makes an extraction with 151 undesirable? I do not know. However, bigger is better, get some 180+ proof alcohol and go nuts, peoples. No half-measures here. Okay, here we go. -Grind seeds to powder. If you have an espresso grinder, awesome. (certain coffee outlet) sells a "burr grinder" that should work, although that shit is expensive. Hypothetically, one should have a friend that works at (coffee outlet) and could appropriate one extralegally. I have had reasonable success with a regular coffee grinder. Pulse at no more than ten seconds at a time, (due to heat, and wear and tear on the machine), shaking during grind so that all the particles are evenly ground. Grind fine!!!! -place the seed powder into a jar- (jar #1). Cover with pet. ether. The guideline here is "can't use too much (pet. ether), can use too little." 500 ml/ 500 seeds seems to be the basic rule, although a little extra ether can't hurt. -put the lid on the jar. Shake like crazy. Let sit for 20 minutes, shaking as much as you see fit. -shake jar, then filter contents of the jar by pouring through coffee filter into second jar. I find a strainer (diam. 6" or so, equipped with coffee filter) useful. Maybe pouring contents or jar 1 into a strainer with a filter in it over a glass pie plate, then transfering contents of the pie plate to jar #2, maybe that would help, certainly couldn't hurt. -if you like, save the filtered ether. You can get at least five more processing cycles out of it. Just don't drink it, please, for fuck's sake. -most importantly, SAVE THE FILTER PAPER WITH SEED POWDER ON IT! -let the filter with the seed powder in it dry THOROUGHLY. This could take several days. -in the interim, clean jar #1 THOROUGHLY -once the seed powder has dried, transfer this to the sparkly-clean jar #1. Add 2-3oz. of alcohol per 500 seeds. Let this sit for three days, shake it if you like. -filter the resulting substance. Discard the seed powder on the filter. Keep the alcoholic liquid for use. RESULTS; -Drink the alcoholic liquid. This is what is known as a tincture. 1-2oz. is standard for a decent mind-opening trip. ALTERNATELY: "the anarchist cookbook method", with refinements -evaporate the alcohol THOROUGHLY, preferably in a glass pie plate. Keep away from dust and other shit. This may take several days. Mild heat is okay, but not recommended. Scrape the resulting goo off the plate. Encapsulate. Two capsules is enough for a crazy trip. If this type of solid extraction is desired, one could use isopropanol or methanol in place of the alcohol mentioned above... evaporate it down THOROUGHLY, ecapsulate and then ingest. DO NOT DRINK ANY SOLUTION MADE WITH ISOPROPANOL OR METHANOL!!!!!!!! VERY UNHEALTHY!!!!!!! PRO'S AND CON'S -the liquid extract will result in a wild, lucid trip, sort of like LSD but more visual. It is quite possible to do some intense reading on this plant; ie. The Oxford Book of English Verse or Jung's Man And His Symbols. I remember dosing at night, and looking at the xmas tree with wonder. I was also intrigued by the concept of circles, and toyed with the idea of rearranging the living room furniture into a circle. This plant gives you some strong-ass feng-shui. However, the prime time for this particular plant ally is morning. So, if you are still awake tripping, the sunlight streaming from the window will do magickal things. My source says to dose at dawn for maximum communion with this fascinating plant. -The solid extract might as well be an entirely different substance entirely. I shared some of this extract with my friend (we dosed at night), 2 capsules each. It comes on like mushrooms; a very disorienting high initially. At first, my friend (no stranger to the world of psychedelics) accused me of poisoning him! At least at first, before he settled in, pulled out his drum machine, and made simple beats to which he turned the delay up all the way so that the echoes of each drum hit made new beats, each based off the echoes of the previous, so sublime! ...hard to explain but VERY TRIPPY. The solid extract discombobulates one's senses before leveling off to a powerful trip somewhat akin to mushrooms with less visual aspect. I suspect that the tincture is far more bioavailable than the solid, wherein the solid extract takes time to be broken down by one's body, like mushrooms, and the trip itself reacts accordingly. Hard to move, hard to talk, but still tripping in divine fashion. Keep in mind, this all happened about 3+ years ago. I don't currently have anything incriminating or otherwise uncool at my current place of residence. Hell, I could have made up this entire thing, being a pathological liar and all. OK guys, what do you have to say about this shit? This is by far the best LSA extraction info available. The holy grail if you will. Anyone else done this? Anyone care to flame me with ridiculous disrespect? Refinements, corrections, etc. are all welcome. I wish I was a' headin' out... on a northbound train... ------------------ -If memory serves me right, the erowid file on this tells one how to make a solid extract only, and does not go into the benefits of various processing methodologies. My seed/dose info is pretty tight as well; I stand behind that shit. Plus you get mini experience reports, on both the tincture and the solid. Yeah, the chemistry's basically the same at erowid, but I like to think my explanation is a little more thorough. Plus, you get to try to read this information through my charming fucking personality. -Preparing a tincture like above will result in a standardized (I mean "same effect each time") highly lucid trip packed with lively vids. For a clumsy comparison, visualize your best 2-10 hit acid trip ever. Now, multiply the effects by two. Remove unwanted physical effects, nasty bodily sensations, feelings of paranoia and dysphoria, and the "cloudy head" confusion and inability to concentrate associated with the typical acid buzz. Add vids, esp. rainbows everywhere. Add the shroomy "organicness" -like where trails seem to swirl in in from some mysterious nexus, spiral around a couple times like seawater, and disappear back to whence they came (a pitifully pathetic description of this marvelous phenomenon). -It is only with this method that this plant can be used to its fullest potential, with the least wear and tear on the human ingesting it. -It will take about 8-10 hours for this experience to run its course. -I thought of combining this with psilocybe mushrooms. I tried hard to make tinctures; none remained active. Maybe there is a way, maybe not. For further experiments, I would (were this legal and if I had any interest in doing this) simply try eating a cylindrical piece of solid extract the length of a wine cork and slightly less than the thickness of one's pinky (probably the psychoactive content of 1000 seeds, but of course may vary) along with 1/16-1/8 oz. of respectable mushrooms, depending on how "respectable" they are. Or alternately, 1/16 oz. of a somewhat fresh batch of "respectable" mushrooms plus two fl.oz. of tincture. This may provide something akin to the overwhelming gnosis of the fabled mushrooms + acid experience,(rumored to be a dangerous combo, but a real barrel of monkeys on those warm summer nights). -This extraction can also be performed on Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds. I have no information on this, having never done it. My source did not divulge this. -An extraction performed in the manner described in the initial post produced no nausea whatsoever. In fact it was the cleanest and most interesting trip SWIM had ever taken. To reiterate, SWIM would consider a theoretical extraction like this hypothetically quite feasible and pleasurable were it legal, apart from questions of NP solvent purity. Ye Stretchman ******************** The following shorter reports are from those that may not have used the extracts above but none the less have some interesting observations to relate: Mezza (Mycotopia): "First attempt - 9g Heavenly Blues - crushed the seeds with a hammer and did a cold water extraction. The water didnt taste too bad. Mixing the wet seed pulp and eating it w/Lemon Yogurt was bad Took about 2 hours to come on with a good 45 minutes of considerable nausea. After the nausea passed, excellent trip. Great, LSD-like visuals (but slower) and very lucid. Great body high, music was fantastic. 2nd time - 9g of Flying Saucers in a cold water extraction. Minor visuals, but a very auditory trip. Was by himself on this one and felt a little spooky. A good trip, but not anything compared to the first one. 3rd time - HBWR seeds w/Naptha wash and alcohol extraction. Went through the whole process and made that alcohol tincture. If I remember correctly, 10mL of tincture would have been equal to 10 seeds. 1/2 teaspoon dose (2.5 seeds) produced a nice euphoria that was amplified by MJ. A full tsp produced a great trip, with no nausea (save for one member of the group) - mild visuals and 'digital' patterns and tracers. Trip lasted about 4 hours, with some heavy-duty lethargy at the end. Still, did not compare to the first Heavenly Blue water extraction. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Piper methysticum (bluelight): "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing. Next, I ordered some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. With eight seeds, the visuals were again, amazing. With twelve seeds, I had little visual effect at all. ..At least nothing I could make sense out of. With six seeds, again, no visuals. This I found to be strange, and I also noticed that I enjoyed the Morning Glory seeds more despite the part of eating a handful of seeds. However, through all of this, Morning Glory has become one of my favorite psychedelics of all." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bluedolphin: "Nah I get some impressive visuals off around 200 seeds. I've even had kaleidescopic vision from ~225 seeds. Granted I tend to get more visuals than most people, but at your dose I'm not surprised at all that you had some strong visuals." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DJAngrE: "oh hell yeah, i've had major kaleidoscopic vision (but only when i close my eyes) i've actually had the strongest OEVs of any drug i've tried including mushrooms... LSA is the best music drug in my opinion, next time maybe take a couple hits of weed (with a much smaller dose of seeds of course) i promise it'll be just as sweet --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- human: "I tried out LSAs for the first time recently and I found them to be the most comfortable substance I've ever been on. While I don't have that much experience (mdma, mushrooms, 2C-I), I enjoyed the somtic aspects of LSA much more than the other substances I've tried. It seems you also found them quite comfortable. And yes, I believe LSA and MDMA are contraindicated. LSAs constrict blood vessels, and mdma raises blood pressure/heartrate. Bad combo. I also agree with the suggestion to smoke a bit of cannabis to ease the nausea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PimpTurk: "LSA is a really great drug..with roughly 200 heavenly blue seeds i saw ganesha morphing on my friends wall...not to mention all the mind bending breathing every object was doing.....and yes the comeup is EXTREMELY euphoric , it ranks up their will rolling in my opinion.....im thinking about trying them again VERY soon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MrNice: "The pesticides wont kill you, they will make you puke a lot though. Im pretty lucky with MG seeds, my highest dose was 500 and even then i didnt get any nausea or leg cramps. I normally stick to around 250, i'll get a nice 7hr trip from them...the best way i can describe how i feel on them is serene. Everything feels so good, colours are brighter, music sounds richer, plus their cheap & easy to get hold of. Usually have an LSA trip about once a week. One of the best effects is that you dont seem to get a comedown with them, its more of an afterglow. Your not tripping but you feel really relaxed and content. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would just like to add that Peter Webster had the following to say (August 2006) in reference to the thread over at bluelight concerning morning glory seed chemistry: QUOTE: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reading it through, I see two misconceptions that could be corrected. morninggloryseed says "I assume that the 'boat' vs the 'chair' thing is referring to d-ergine vs l-ergine. D-ergine is flat, while l-ergine is not. Also very interesting to hear Owsley's comments about LAOH (he refers to it as 'hydroxymethyllysergamine' but I am certain it is either a misprint or a mistake as the chemical is a-hydroxyethyl-d-lysergamide.) I had long ago theorized that this may be the real active gem in the seeds. Animal tests all point to it being an active psychedelic.and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature.far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like. I wonder if Hoffman has notes in the Sandoz library about his experiments. Maybe they are still being translated. I am buying this book for certain." the boat and chair forms are just alternative conformations of the D-ring, not different isomers (d- vs l- has the hydrogen at position 5 going in the other direction.) The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be psychoactive actually can never reach the brain, since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods. vbest regards, peter and.... Quote: >Do you mind if I post your comments to the thread? Please do. Also a comment about the graphs: The question here is what conditions is the extract subjected to (and for how long) before (and maybe even during) the HPLC? For instance, some researchers believe that perhaps all the content of MG seeds exists as the d-hydroxyethylamide, and it is the extraction/purification/testing procedures which then produce the APPARENT result that the alkaloids are ergine, isoergine, and maybe still some hydroxyethylamide. Thus your testing procedure might also be subject to this problem. A test that would fill us in on some important data would be to have the rate of epimerisation of ergine to isoergine in basic, neutral, and acidic media (and yes, the equilibrium is not far from 50/50). For this, you'd need to separate one epimer with chromatography, and then measure optical rotation over time. A little tricky to get it right unless ypu've done similar testing before. LSD takes a week to equilibrate even in basic conditions (to 88:12), whereas lysergic acid itself is almost instant in strong base (to 85:15). Prof Nichols believes the ergine-isoergine equilibration is rapid even in body fluids, I suspect it is not, and that this is one reason for the uncertainties we deal with in the book. But no one's got the hard data! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End QUOTE ---------------------------------------------------------- Important Notes: Chapter 15 of the book is about Peter Webster's experiments with morning glory seeds, and later with ergotamine tartrate (Gynergen) tablets. Page 180 contains drawings which attempt to visualize the ergine and its epimer in their true three-dimensional states as ergine-chair, ergine-boat, and iso-ergine chair conformations. Ergine (as opposed to the synthesized chemical that Hofmann sampled) always occurs with its epimer, and it is unstable, oscillating between its dichotomous orientatins. The combination of the oscillating ergine and its mirrored iso-ergine appears to be more psychoactive than either in isolation. This is why Hofmann's experiments with the synthesized chemical were unsatisfactory. Stretchman saids "I've tried a shit-load of psychedelics, and this is among the best of them, if not THE best.", and "the tincture showed me a magical wonderland of endless vistas and the solid extract stomped a fucking mudhole in my ass." The experiments he did may show the importance of having the product in a solution so that equilibration of ergine/iso-ergine can occur, and thus the powerful activity of the brew. Trakman du also makes it very clear that only lab-grade reagent grade petroleum ether should be used with his tek (also note that Stretchman used an extremely clean grade of petroleum ether back in his experiments before 1995, and this grade without impurities appears to be no longer available in hardware stores). Trakman believes that other grades such as over the counter naptha, zippo, coleman etc will all dissolve a portion of the lsa's, rendering the final solution or brew to be very weak, or even to have no effects at all. Stretchman also points out that only everclear should be used in the final solution, so as to have the lowest percentage of water in the product or else nausea can still result. Dr. D points out that a pecentage (about 5%) or so of tartaric acid (used in beer making, wines, etc.) can be added to the alcohol solution. Since the alkaloids are basic and form salts with tartaric acid, the extraction is improved into alcohol-water mixtures. Stirring the mixture in a mixmaster blender at high speed also helps. And if you rig up a simple vacuum filtration unit, the filtering of the seed cake will be easy. QUOTE: (Danbian in the Stretchman LSA thread --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A couple little notes...LSA's (unlike some other trippy alkaloids) actually exist as salts in the plant material, so an initial pull with an acidic solution wouldn't be too effective (unless you were using a stronger acid that would break the alkaloids from the naturally occurring salts). Instead, one could defat as a first step, then basify and continue w/ the extraction. Also, if the alkaloids are left in free base form as per the last step of the procedure, they would have to be gobbled up pretty soon. If you wanted to store them for any length of time, you'd want to end up with salts, which are much more stable (If I'm not mistaken the tartrate salt is best for this purpose)." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The final solution should glow bright blue under a blacklite states Webster, Moxley and Dr. D. So far I have never read of anyone on the net doing a simple blacklight test on their final solution to see if it still contained amides other than the 3 people mentioned above. Ergot Alkaloids and Ergolines from Convolvulacea: Chemical Name Alternative Names ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- d-Lysergic acid amide (Ergine) d-iso-Lysergic acid amide (iso-Ergine) Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine iso-Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine Ergonovine (Ergometrine) Ergonovinine (Ergometrinine) Chanoclavine-I Chanoclavine-II Penniclavine Elymoclavine Agroclavine ----------------------------------------------------------- If Stretchman and Trakman.du were still around I would ask them to describe their trips in even more detail---What sorts of visuals did they see during the trips? Did they see geometric patterns, landscapes, architecture, or similar. Stretchman describes his tincture as creating "endless vistas" of visions, and as even being more visual to him than LSD. This is a fascinating subject also in light of the theories proposed by Peter Webster with support from others (refer to beginning of chapter 15 of the book). Please do tell more if anyone here at Mycotopia has had visual/audial trips off the morning glory seeds.

08-24-06, 10:14	#9 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	great thread, very informative. __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

09-24-06, 20:52	#32 (permalink)
arahant Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 1971 Posts: 9	Pet ether Anyone have any experience, or any idea how to aquire reagent grade petroleum ether in ontario? I don't see any listings for chemical supply houses in the yellowpages, I'm having a hard time finding anywhere that will sell/ship a regular container of petroleum ether on the internet. any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys

10-26-06, 19:26	#46 (permalink)
waj01 Mycophiliac Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 23	Cold Cranberry Juice Extraction I have had good results with the following. Also , I keep my seeds frozen and have not noted any problems wit long term storage +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MG Extraction- Electric Cranberry Juice <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> Much easier and less toxic than the polar/nonpolar method. Taste good and no nausea. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> Grind I. purpurea (Pearly Gates) in coffee grinder to fine consistency. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> Add 8-oz cranberry juice cocktail from 12-14 oz bottle , shake, leave in refrigerator, and shake periodically for 3 days. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> After 3 days, strain very thick liquid to large Pyrex bowl with clean cotton used as strainer . Room temp filtration over night in dark area. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> Next morning, add additional 1 – 2 oz juice to wash residue (Note: All filtration is gravity only, do not squeeze.) <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> In PM transfer thick liquid back to cranberry juice bottle (Hope you rinsed it out and saved it.) <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> Wrap bottle in tin foil and store frozen in freezer. Thaw when ready to use. Taste best very cold. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>

08-23-06, 21:16	#2 (permalink)
odrorir Mycophiliac Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 79	Cold water LSA extracts seem to get mostly d-lsergic acid, which is very sedative in nature. I hope to get some reagent grade naptha some day for this reason though.

08-23-06, 21:17	#3 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	Welcome to topia...!..that's a hella first post Tregar....

08-23-06, 21:24	#4 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Thank you for the welcome! Reagent grade petroleum ether is easy to get but it is expensive. I hope to report my own experiences which I will only be dreaming of course at some distant future date. I highly recommend reading the book if you can get your hands on it in the meantime though. One of my favorite new books is the "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" (900 pages) by Christian Ratsch--absolutely beautiful--highly recommended. Reading the book by Carl A.P. Ruck and Peter Webster (chapter 15) really sparked my interest again in the often controversial and debated subject of ololiuqui and ipomoea tricolor (violacea) seeds. I have past experience (back in the early 1990's) with over a hundred hits of low dose, medium dose, and high dose LSD. I also tried panaeolus mushrooms a few times back in that period. On high dose acid, I saw visuals of pristine Egyptian pyramids when they were new, and the sand was glistening all around them, also of DNA type spiral material like dragons and snakes, as well as animated multi-colored fractal-patterned globes spinning in mid-air (incredible!) and many other things too numerous to mention. This was also a very intense mystical and religious experience remembered in the glow of blacklights. The pan cyans resulted in my seeing more of an alien scenery--for example, 2 "Stropharia" flat, electric, and wavy type beings (a pair of them) and when I passed by a crystal shop on the street, all of the crystals formed drooping alien-heads (really cool.). I also saw a form of futuristic hiero-glyphic type writing of some kind in green color wrapped around my legs one other time while reclining in a lawn chair out in the sunlight. That about sums up my psychedelic experiences.

08-23-06, 22:08	#5 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	Just read the whole post ...Very informative and tantelizing...The use of the highest grade of Pet. Ether is proly a wise choice for this work...I'm temped really tempted...heh...Thanx for that...

08-24-06, 09:52	#7 (permalink)
ignorant monkey Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 35	what about ethyl(everclear) or ethyl+water(vodka) extracts? is either effective and comparable to the 'full seed experience', and does either noticeably reduce the nause/bad effects?

08-24-06, 16:20	#11 (permalink)
robman1 Mycophage Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 186	So I see you are a lycaeum browser as well tregar. http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php/topic,4167.0.html Thats a good thread if you are looking for a lot of info.

08-24-06, 18:42	#12 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	I'm wondering about the risk level from purchasing reagent grade pet ether Is this a "watched" chemical...

08-24-06, 20:41	#13 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Cool trip report mycobri. thanks for that. Thanks for the comment hippie3, and to all who have posted. Yes I'm a lycaeum/nook/bluelight member/browser too. But if you want to know the truth, Mycotopia is my favorite! Thanks for posting the link to the gigathum LSA thread robman1, as it is difficult for non-members to locate...due to not being able to use the lycaeum search function without being a member...and it is after all deeply buried in the forum as it took me a very long time to locate (before I was a member). Notice what Stretchman has to say about everclear vs. vodka as the alcohol of choice for the final tincture: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "it seems that one compound can be removed almost entirely with the pet ether, and the other is only present in any water found in whichever potable alcoholic solvent is used for making the final tincture. This is why it is important to use the purest possible alcohol for formulating the tincture; lower levels of water mean lower doses of "undesirables". I tried this with 100 proof vodka (many years ago, etc). This solution was not terribly strong and left me with a distinct feeling of nausea; not really where I wanted to be. 180 proof grain alcohol works wonders." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is what Stretchman had to say about "only alcohol/water mix extractions": ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote:Originally posted by TWENTYXINSANE: Ya think I could get decent results using nothing but 190proof Everclear and skip the Naptha, it sketches me out? You said 180 proof worked wonders but did you first do a Naptha wash or use it alone? Thanks again Peace Stretchman replied: "190 proof?!?! Go for it (this suggestion void where prohibited by law)!!!! I would strongly encourage the naptha wash though! I used a naptha wash each time this extraction was performed. I would do a naptha wash first to weed out "undesirable" chemicals in the seeds. Even if the "undesirables" were inert rather than (slighty) malicious, the goodies would be more readily absorbed by the alcohol, if the solute is just goodies and not extraneous matter found in the seed. This means a more refined ("better") end product. Also, skipping the naptha wash will make the nausea factor more pronounced (way more so than a water extraction) and by the same token potentiate the weird effects from the other "undesirable" compound. The alcohol focuses these side effects into sharp relief when these compounds are in solution, probably making a person very sick, uncomfortable, and not tripping by any definition." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is what Stretchman had to say about using store-bought Naptha: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My associate followed the above extraction instructions using naptha bought at a local hardware store (Crown brand, if I can say that here). He evaporated the seed mash for three full days on layers of paper towels, in front of a fan, stirring the seeds several times a day. After three days the seeds were totally dry and there was no trace of naptha when smelled, just a pleasant, mildly nutty smell. After completing the extraction into 190 proof grain alcohol, he tried it out, mixing the grain with cranberry juice (Great mixer, BTW!) To his horror, when he downed this mix there was a distinct PETROLEUM AFTERTASTE. Well, he didn't go through all that trouble just to let that stop him, so he tried to forget about it and enjoy the experience. On the plus side, the first four or five hour were very pleasant indeed, with mild prismatic visuals, bright colors, and deep mind expanding thoughts, and an overall feeling of goodness. On the down side, the next three DAYS consisted of headache, nausea, dizziness, visual distortion (not the good kind), fatigue, sleeplessness, stomach irritation, loss of appetite, and a general feeling of, "I am a dumbass, I poisoned myself, maybe I will die." (so says my associate) He feels all right now, but who know if there will be negative effects down the road. Just a word to the wise, from the unwise. Good luck! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nogal had this to say about HBWR seeds vs. morning glory seeds: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I agree more test definately need to be done in this area, but its possible that pure LSA is alot different than whats in morning glory. Experentially HBWR seeds and morning glory shouldnt even be compared to one another, which indicates that there are other compounds at work. Morning glory is much more similiar to LSD in its visual properties than HBWR, which is more body oriented." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is a huge list of chemicals about a page long that include things like dmso, petroleum ether, etc somewhere on the net...can't remember if it is exactly watched, but I do know that it is not restricted, like the other hundred or so chemicals in its category. It can be found at your local science hobby supplier/chem shop or elsewhere for doing dried ground beef (or other food product) fat analysis to determine its lipid content for example with science fair projects. The tartaric acid (used to balance acidity of wine in wine/beer making hobbies) also sounds promising added at a 5% or so ratio to the final everclear extraction pull to aid in converting LSA material to stable long-lasting salt form. Tartaric acid is sometimes used in making an imitation lemon juice, or as a substitue for lemon juice. I would really like to contact Peter Webster via email someday and get his comments on what his trips were like...I want details! One of the advanced members at bluelight (seems like a genius chromatograher too) was able to contact him and get his comments noted in the 1st post above concerning a few things. Chemistry is great and all but I want a trip report with that! The kykeon is the active ingredient of the potion which inspired the great philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, artists, architects and poets of ancient Greece who we recognise as the progenitors of Western civilisation, the sacrament which was revelation for these greatest of the greats was an analogue of LSD: A naturally-produced lysergic acid alkaloid whose effects were identical to those of that "greatest of all evils," that "diabolical drug which destroyed a generation," that "fly now, die later drug," that "greater threat to the nation than the Vietnam War," (to quote merely a few of the more tame epithets that have been hurled at the revered sacrament of Eleusis in its newly discovered form.)

08-24-06, 21:25	#15 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	I don't know whether or not lemon juice would work. All I know is that LSD is usually converted to the "tartrate" by tartaric acid. Citrate or tartrate probably doesn't matter as they are both structure promoting salts. Someone with a better chemical background would need to chime in here and answer this one.

08-24-06, 22:13	#16 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Here is a short summary of what went on at the LSD symposium: In January at the Conference in Basel, a speaker Peter Webster brought up his experiments w/ extractions of Morning Glories. Which involved a simple basified extract (I'll detail below) of Morning Glories which yielded ~2mL of a light colored syrup that flouresced bright blue under UV (which is characteristic for for simple lysergic acid amides) with ~2mg of this syrup was obtained a full on psychedelic experience remarked equally as strong as high dose LSD trips he had experienced. At the conference he goes on to hypothesize that a ergine/isoergine basified solution was likely the Kykeon of Eleusis. Though he admits there remains uncertainty about ergine/isoergine and their psychoactivity in isomeric equilibrium; as such it remains to be pointed out why some people with some preparations HIT THE BULL'S EYE! and others get little other than SEDATION. ... The procedure involved extracting finely powdered Heavenly Blue Morning Glories w/ Ethanol. Most ethanol was evaporated off in a rotovap, added a bit more water, basified the messy solution w/ ammonia (to make sure alkaloids weren't in the salt form) & extracted 3x w/ dichloromethane, combined extracts were extracted with w/ water containing 5% tartaric acid. The alkaloidal-tartarate solution was basified w/ ammonia and extracted w/ dichloromethane. Evaporate DCM leaving a light coloured syrup that fluoresced bright blue under blacklight. .. Prof Nichols had this to say in response to the proposed hypothesis put forth @ The Basel Conference: "Although the pharmacology of isoergine (and even ergine itself) is not well studied, in other lysergic acid amides the iso epimers are generally inactive, at least when compared to the normal amides. Therefore, I still believe that ergine must be the species active at the receptor, but if the ergine/isoergine equilibration can occur at body pH and temp, then ergine could be generated in the brain from isoergine. This may be a key point, and you should go back and look at the Tetrahedron paper where they apparently did some kinetics on the process. Thus, I think that isoergine would lack pharmacological effects. But… there is another factor to consider. Absorption and partitioning through the body and into the brain only occurs with the unprotonated forms of alkaloids. That is, ergine is an alkaloid that will be protonated, or charged, at body pH. As such, before it can be absorbed from the gut or cross into the brain, it must lose its charge, or give up its proton. In the uncharged form it will readily cross into the brain, but this fraction is relatively small, perhaps only a few percent of the total. Because of the ability of the amide of the D-ring of isoergine to form a stabilizing hydrogen bond to the amine nitrogen, it can deprotonate very easily at body pH, giving a neutral species that will have a very high lipid solubility. The intramolecular hydrogen compensates for the energy cost of deprotonation and desolvation. Using semiempirical methods, I calculated the length of this hydrogen bond to be about 2.65 Angstroms. Somewhat long, but reasonable. The work you cite in tetrahedron could be used for parallel discussion, but I don’t have the paper here. The consequence of the hydrogen bond is that isoergine will be absorbed much more readily than ergine, and will penetrate the brain to a greater extent than ergine. Once inside the brain, however, facile epimerization of isoergine will lead back to an equilibrium that contains ergine, which is most likely the form of the molecule that I believe is active at the receptor. Importantly, however, I think the concentration of ergine could be much higher than if ergine itself was taken, IF epimerization of isoergine back to ergine can occur at physiological conditions. Thus, at the brain receptor where ergine acts, a much higher concentration will be achieved than if ergine had been administered originally. If isoergine did have significant pharmacological activity, something which I doubt, but without evidence, it could be there in pretty high concentration, compared to what would be there after pure ergine administration. So, the question is: if isoergine is placed in pH 7.4 at 37 degrees C, will a significant amount of ergine arise by epimerization in a reasonable amount of time? This process is completely analogous to the proposal by G.P. Migliaccio, T.-L.N. Shieh, S.R. Byrn, B.A. Hathaway and D.E. Nichols, "Comparison of Solution Conformational Preferences for the Hallucinogens Bufotenin and Psilocin using 360 MHz Proton NMR Spectroscopy", J. Med. Chem. 24, 206-209 (1981) to explain the high lipid solubility of psilocin, compared to bufotenin. In that paper, the authors proposed that an intramolecular hydrogen bond forms between the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin and the side chain amino group, providing enhanced penetration into the brain. Similarly, in isoergine, the hydrogen bond between the amide hydrogen and the unprotonated basic amine provides a very lipid-soluble, neutral substance that can easily be absorbed and penetrate into the brain. In pharmaceutical terms, we could consider that the “bioavailability” of isoergine would be much higher than that of ergine, following oral administration." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And a few comments relayed from Peter Webster on another forum: Reading it through, I see two misconceptions that could be corrected. morninggloryseed says "I assume that the 'boat' vs the 'chair' thing is referring to d-ergine vs l-ergine. D-ergine is flat, while l-ergine is not. Also very interesting to hear Owsley's comments about LAOH (he refers to it as 'hydroxymethyllysergamine' but I am certain it is either a misprint or a mistake as the chemical is a-hydroxyethyl-d-lysergamide.) I had long ago theorized that this may be the real active gem in the seeds. Animal tests all point to it being an active psychedelic.and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature.far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like. I wonder if Hoffman has notes in the Sandoz library about his experiments. Maybe they are still being translated. I am buying this book for certain." the boat and chair forms are just alternative conformations of the D-ring, not different isomers (d- vs l- has the hydrogen at position 5 going in the other direction.) The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be psychoactive actually can never reach the brain, since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods. vbest regards, peter and.... Quote: >Do you mind if I post your comments to the thread? Please do. Also a comment about the graphs: The question here is what conditions is the extract subjected to (and for how long) before (and maybe even during) the HPLC? For instance, some researchers believe that perhaps all the content of MG seeds exists as the d-hydroxyethylamide, and it is the extraction/purification/testing procedures which then produce the APPARENT result that the alkaloids are ergine, isoergine, and maybe still some hydroxyethylamide. Thus your testing procedure might also be subject to this problem. A test that would fill us in on some important data would be to have the rate of epimerisation of ergine to isoergine in basic, neutral, and acidic media (and yes, the equilibrium is not far from 50/50). For this, you'd need to separate one epimer with chromatography, and then measure optical rotation over time. A little tricky to get it right unless ypu've done similar testing before. LSD takes a week to equilibrate even in basic conditions (to 88:12), whereas lysergic acid itself is almost instant in strong base (to 85:15). Prof Nichols believes the ergine-isoergine equilibration is rapid even in body fluids, I suspect it is not, and that this is one reason for the uncertainties we deal with in the book. But no one's got the hard data!

09-01-06, 02:10	#18 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	What I'm going to state here is purely of my own conjecture--I really don't think it holds much promise but I still think it's worth thinking about: I fully believe that Peter Webster has most likely hit the nail on the head in regards to his trio of conformations equilibrium theory, however I'm just goint to point out a few weird things: Lysergic acid methylcarbinolamide (otherwise known as D-lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide (found in morning glory seeds in a lesser quantity than lysergic acid) may be very psychedelic as it is very similar to LSD, although no human tests have been done--only animal studies that point to it having the possibility of being psychedelic. Peter Webster states this: "The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be psychoactive actually can never reach the brain, since this compound is a LABILE ADDUCT of ergine and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods." adduct = a new chemical species labile = unstable However.... It is known that N-(1-hydroxyethyl) lysergamide is an adduct compound formed from lysergic acid amide (present in large amounts in the seed) and acetaldehyde. This is easily formed by the combination of lysergic acid amide and acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (just mixing of the two together). In the liver, it is known that an enzyme converts ethanol into acetaldehyde, which is then converted into harmless acetic acid by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. Acetaldehyde is more toxic than ethanol and is responsible for many hangover symptoms. Is it possible in theory then, that if someone took both alcohol and lysergic acid amide (say from morning glory seeds) together--that the liver would convert some of the alcohol to acetaldehyde--and since this is both present in the liver at the same time as the d-lysergic acid--the mixing of the two--would then drive the reaction to form the new compound--N-(1-hydroxyethyl) lysergamide--which is thought to be perhaps very psychedelic and similar to LSD in its effects? It wasn't discovered until 1990 by two researchers (nearly a century later) for example that cocaine and alcohol react in the liver to form a very unusual new compound--"cocaethylene"--this was the secret of the Vin Mariani (coca mixed with wine) then drunk resulted in significant activity with euphoria, cocaine effects, etc...however just drinking the coca on its own without the wine had little to no activity. Would this explain as an alternative theory to that of Peter Webster's theory...that instead of a trio of drugs (ergine-boat conformation, ergine-chair conformation, and iso-ergine chair conformation) formed as an equilibrium reaction in an extracted solution over perhaps an hour or more as Peter theorizes may be responsible for the psychedelic activity of the seeds.... that perhaps (as Stretchman's everclear extract of morning glory seeds) N-(1-hydroxyethyl) lysergamide is indeed reaching the brain after being processed in the liver-- responsible for the very strong psychedelic effect instead? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It is quite possible that D-lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide is highly psychedelic and is the closest thing to LSD in nature. If the liver (when given a little alcohol) with lysergic acid amide can form acetaldehyde from the alcohol then mix it with the lysergic acid to add the CH3CHO piece (the chemical formula for acetaldehyde) then you end up with d-lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide...which then reaches the brain? Acetaldehyde is also rapidly broken down in the liver as well, so perhaps it doesn't get a chance to do any of this.... Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that Trakman.du's alcoholic extract of morning glory seeds or that Stretchman's alcoholic extract of morning glory seeds is so strong (in their experiences) due to this proposed theoretical addition of the acetaldehyde's CH3CHO structure to the lysergic acid side chain in the liver resulting in a new compound with strong psychedelic activity similar to that of LSD? Remember that when Stretchman took his everclear tincture of morning glory seeds (after having been de-fatted with reagent grade petroleum ether to rid it of the nauseating compounds -- that it resulted in a highly lucid and visual psychedelic trip, whereas when he took the tar (which had all of the alcohol evaporated out of it) it resulted in a very different effect--the psychedelic effects were not to his liking. He way prefered the tincture to the tar. The tincture showed him endless vistas...he likened the effects to taking your best 2 to 10 hit acid trip and multiplying the effects by two. Trakman.du stated that his alcoholic extract (after having been de-fatted as well) had effects that were no less powerful than that of LSD. I find it hard to believe that there is not a single human study out there showing the effects of d-lysergic acid methylcarbinolamide on humans if it is indeed though by some very respected researchers to be similar to LSD in its effects. A study with animals was done in 1961 and was reported in the journal Nature. This is also interesting: The drug Antabuse (disulfiram) also prevents the oxidation of acetaldehyde in the liver to acetic acid, with an unpleasant effect for drinkers. It is used in the treatment of certain alcoholics. Some people of East Asian descent have a mutation in their acetaldehyde dehydrogenase gene, making the enzyme (that converts acetaldehyde to acetic acid) less effective. Acetaldehyde also occurs naturally in ripe fruit, fresh bread, and even coffee. This is what Peter said in a paper at MAPS: "Another finding I've just come across is that ergine probably is non-existent in nature, even in morning-glory seed, but rather exists as Lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide, as in Scott's paragraph above. However, this alkaloid is actually a simple adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde, and is transformed easily and spontaneously to ergine during extraction or just dissolution in solvents. So the lysergic hydroxyethylamide would have no opportunity to become the isolysergic hydroxyethylamide as it would first, and more rapidly, be converted to ergine and actealdehyde (the main chemical that gives you a hangover as the body metabolises ethyl alocohol.) Also, the hydroxyethylamide cannot therefore be a psychoactive agent as it would be transfored to ergine (and then isoergine) long before traveling through the stomach, blood, and blood-brain barrier to the neuro receptors. I'm planning a nice lecture on all this chemisty for Perinaldo." From an article written by morninggloryseed at Wikipedia: "Its structure is very similar to LSD in that the N, N-diethylamide group is replaced with an N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide in d-lysergic acid (alpha-hydroxyethylamide)." "While animal data involving d-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide exists, the physiological and pharmacological actions in humans is unknown. Animal studies do suggest the alkaloid may have some toxic effects at high levels." "The human activity of d-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethylamide is unknown, but animal studies suggest it is an active psychedelic and hallucinogen and likely contributes to the seed's psychedelic and entheogenic activity. Dosage and durtion of this compound is unknown." Nobody seems to know whether this compound is actually psychedelic or not--and even if it is--we don't know how potent it is or how long it lasts. Bigwood, Ott and others only performed experiments with ergonovine (another compound found in the seeds) back in the 70's, and not with this compound. From the Jan-June 1979 issue of the "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs": "One of us experienced eidetic imagery, rapidly-changing, colorful geometric patterns, undulating, never still." The psychic effects did not increase with the same magnitude as the somatic effects. The studies were done with ergometrine at doses from 3.75 to 10mg. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LSD has an N, N-diethylamide group * With d-Lysergic acid N-(alpha-hydroxyethyl) amide, the N,N-diethlamide group of LSD is replaced with an N-(1-hydroxyethyl)amide. * Ergonovine is otherwise known as d-lysergic acid beta-propanolamide) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is also quite probable that the only reason that Stretchman's tincture was so potent compared to the evaporated tar is because he exposed the delicate amides from his tincture to air, light, and/or possibly heat for several days--weakening the amides considerably, or it may be due to the fact (more likely) that his tincture solution allowed the ergine variants to reach an equilibrium trio of conformations (according to Webster's theory) and since it was still in solution, when he ingested it, the trio of drug conformations reached the brain receptors intact--enacting the powerful experiences. Otto Snow does mention in his book "LSD" that all seed extractions should be done under inert atmosphere as well. Ergot alkaloids will decompose in light, heat and air. Tartrate and maleate salts are less susceptible to destruction. --------------------------------------- There is also an interesting on-line interview with the Bear Owsley where he hits on a derivative of LSD that the ancients may have discovered and prepared for the Eleusis mystery quoted here: "B: Well, people could say the same thing about LSD, they could say there’s sassafras and there’s nutmeg in nature, and there is morning glories and ergot in nature, but you have to do the chemistry in order to make something that’s effective. O: No, that’s not true. Ergot contains many natural, highly psychedelic alkaloids. Iso-ergine is one of them, hydroxy-methyl-lysergamide is another one, and in fact, is considered nearly identical to LSD in effect. Albert Hoffman told me so himself. They believe that it was this derivative contained in extracts of c.paspalum that was used in the Eleusian Mysteries. B: It’s true, they did a water salt solution. O: I believe that they will find a plant which contains the exact diethylamide of lysergic acid in natural form. In alkaline alcoholic medium the isomers of the amines of lysergic acid will reach an equilibrium. This equilibrium will be a certain per centage of the iso compound, and a certain per centage of the normal compound. Of all the compounds listed experimentally by Hoffman, LSD has the highest ratio of active to inactive isomers in the equilibrated mixture, it runs 88-12. Of all the compounds, and it lists about 20 of them, it has the highest ratio of active to inactive. This means that nature favours the active form of LSD over the inactive by a considerable margin." note in the above interview the compound may have been mis spelled, and instead they are referring to D-lysergic acid alpha-hydroxyethyl amide (otherwise known as D-Lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethyl) amide or other name for d-lysergic acid methylcarbinolamide.

09-01-06, 02:11	#19 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	A few more quotes of good vibes morning glory experiences: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stretchman: "Yes, SWISM noted the swirling organicness of SWISM's trip. There was much preoccupation with the cyclical nature of things, such as one may extrapolate from watching ripples in a pond. At one point SWISM rearranged the living room furniture into more natural, circular patterns. It heightens one's awareness to the point at which one can see the interconnectedness of all things quite clearly. Previously unheard-of energies can be sensed. It can be a meaningful and beautiful trip. There is definitely a unique type of consciousness present when one explores this plant. However, the type of experience is very different depending on how the plant material is prepared. Many different aspects of the same entity. SWISM's favorite is a yellow tincture; it was this that brought forth SWISM's most lucid and deep visions. It is definitely a similar experience to that induced by LSD or Psilocybe mushrooms. It is gentler and more natural-feeling than the average LSD trip, "cleaner"--feeling than the average mushroom trip, and depending on preparation many times more lucid and relevatory than either...or both at once-- (yes, SWISM's been there). Were it legal to do so, SWISM would concoct a batch of LSA-rich liquid, then promptly dose everyone in this thread with the mystical tincture. Perhaps then minor differences of opininon would be less apt to explode into flaming, and new understandings could be reached." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stretchman: "Twenty years ago when I was employed as a nomadic space pirate, I tried the method of seed sprouts as a tea for myself. I found that I still got significant nausea from this method, plus a feeling of sedation that was entirely unexpected. However, I didn't get the weird leg pains/twitchiness that most people who eat the raw seed or consume a CWE often report. The best method I found to enjoy these seeds is described in the Gigantor LSA thread which lurks around here somewhere. Basically, the tincture provides an experience which would seem to combine the best qualities of a psilocybe mushroom trip with the best qualities of an LSD trip, with zero body load or weird symptoms (aside from the entheogenic state itself)." For those that are interested in pursuing a dream of consuming the raw plant material, one can certainly anticipate some nasty hypothetical side effects. While these side effects might be important from an ethnographical/anthropological standpoint, they can detract from an otherwise life-changing experience. The whole LSA/MG issue is a convoluted mess of opinions. I suggest researching the subject as much as possible. If nothing else, it should be entertaining. Extraction can accomplish two goals: 1. It removes toxic compounds from the seed 2. It unlocks the mind-blowing potential of this plant Hope this helps. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stretchman: "An extraction performed in the manner described in the initial post produced no nausea whatsover. In fact it was the cleanest and most interesting trip SWIM had ever taken. To reiterate, SWIM would consider a theoretical extraction like this hypothetically quite feasible and pleasurable were it legal, apart from questions of NP solvent purity." Okay, to clarify, the LSA's as I have prepared them, are every bit as ragingly rugged as good old LSD, perhaps more so!!! The "cleanness" of the "trip" (cleanness inquotes because I don't think there is really such a thing as "dirty" acid, acid being the main basis for comparison of the LSA experience) would make this, IMO, the ideal substance for the psychedelic neophyte. That and the exceptional lucidity of the trip. Either that, or I just get along extraordinarily well with this particular plant." Infraredroses: "One cannot emphasize enough the extraordinary beauty and grandeur of an extracted LSA trip. It has been a long time since I visited this ally in her realm, and my heart yearns. The naptha issue is a controversial one indeed. One must do what one feels right." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pharmboy: "I did a cold water extraction out of about 300 seeds. I used ice cold tap water, and did 3 soaks. I simply ground the seeds up in a coffee grinder, put them in a cup, added ice cold water and stuk it in the fridge for an hour. Drew the cold water off with a syringe, and added more. 3 pulls in total--around 100ml water tota. The water didn't taste bad at all. It was one of the most visual trips I've ever had. Not only that, a hit of DMT at the peak was like absolute heaven (which I have yet to replicate on any psychedelic). I was very sedated though. I managed to stay awake for most of it." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pharmboy: "My absolute best psychedelic experience in the last bunch of years was a weakish 300 seed CWE trip with DMT smoked at the peak. I'd love to see the MG/LSA secrets unlocked...For sure." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spunion Elf the second: "Morning glorys are visual if you take about a thousand and do an extraction. For a one step extract water is better than alcohol, because alcohol dissolves more of the stuff that makes you sick. But, if you use a nonpolar solvent to remove all the noxious shite first, alcohol does a wonderful job of extracting the goodies and is easier to evaporate than water." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mezza: "First attempt - 9g of Heavenly Blues--crushed the seeds with a hammer and did a cold water extraction. The water didn't taste too bad. Mixing the wet seed pulp and eating it w/Lemon Yogurt was bad. Took about 2 hours to come on with a good 45 minutes of considerable nausea. After the nausea passed, excellent trip. Great, LSD-like visuals (but slower) and very lucid. Great body high, music was fantastic." 2nd time--9g of Flying Saucers in a cold water extraction. Minor visuals, but a very auditory trip. Was by himself on this one and felt a little spooky. A good trip, but not anything compared to the first one." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- woundsarehealed: "the strongest trip that swim ever had (with anything!) was with about 10g morning glory seeds (heavenly Blue) and 3000mg vitamin C (3 pills) all ground up in a coffee grinder and soaked in water for 1 hour. Then he drank it, and had minor stomach pains....after about 1 hour and 30 minutes, he had a wonderful body trip (somatically intense).....2.5 hours into the trip he had very strong visuals, and no more discomfort. Very mystical experience for 9-10 hours!!! Was very wonderful! (so he says). To help the stomach discomfort next time, a good remedy to ingest with it would be some kind of leaf mint. help alot!!!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GoaM: "Man. A friend of mine sent me some morning glory seeds. I crushed and ate 17 grams last night. First few hours were nausea and sedation. Should've taken a dramamine first. Well anyway, the shit hit HARD after a few hours. Fuck man. I'm talking colors, fractals, hardcore patterning. This stuff is great. I LOVE LSA. It's great stuff, and the colors are very beautiful." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- genaro: "well I have had quite a few visuals (both CEVs and OEVs) from HBWR (8-13 seeds) and morning glory (15-30g which is 500 to 1000 seeds)...which was THC free in quite a few cases. On my very first trips with these (let's say the first 3-8 trips) there was no "trip routine" and I could get very nice OEVs such as very nice and brightly coloured Kalaeidoscopeic/vortex stuff all over the walls of my room, beautiful." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mxindustry sheep: "I once purchased a very good (very potent) batch of heavenly blue seeds. Open and close eye visuals 200 seeds. Very pleasant after you throw up: P, but once it's out it's out." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~erebus: "I have yet to try HWBR but I have some experience with morning glory seeds. I had the most intense trip I've ever had with them, strangely enough. Time perception was heavily distorted, and all I remember thinking was "WOW". My vision was completely filled with geometric patterns, much like you would find on a tiled floor with patterns." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thefungalfiend: "I've eaten large amounts of morning glory, and can definitely attest to their ability to produce visuals. Rich, complicated visuals. Take more. Erowid doses are all wrong on this. It saids 10g is a Strong dose? That's just getting started. That's why no one feels these things, because no one is taking enough. The best trip I had on them was with 25 grams." nolly: "please, no one take this seriously--an ounce of seeds would be a bad thing to put in your stomach, afoaf ate a few grams years ago, and had signficant side-effects (nausea, gastrci cramps) that made the experience a big negative overall." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- innatebeat: "I've never really gotten a clear idea of how good LSA really is. Finally I tried it and had AMAZING results. Definetly not as strong as LSD but definetly comparable. Have any of you guyz had any similar experiences? I honestly felt like I had uncovered a secret...HAHA, I mean the only drawback to LSA was the nausea but after that passed I would definetly say it was worth it. I honestly felt a genuine happiness, a need to better myself, and finally was able to say goodbye to some harsher substances I'm into...If any of you guyz have been thinking of giving LSA a try I definetly recommend it, I'm no NOOb either, I've had my share of psychedelics and this one has got to be at the top of my list, simply because its natural...I even liked it better than fungus... VertexShader: "In my expereince LSA has been truly blissful and euphoric. No visuals or insights, though. Not much of a mindchange, but I guess I haven't done enough." Xorkoth: "As for LSA, I find it to be definitely more sedating and more natural feeling than LSD. If you can get past the nausea, you'll enter into a wonderful trip which generally is much less visual than LSD, but includes instead feelings of extreme euphoria and closeness with nature. I've never tried high dosages of either, but while I enjoy LSD more for various reasons, I find LSA to be very enjoyable as well. But unless you can make a damn good extraction, you'll first experience nausea on a level above that which most psychedelics give." Cat Again: "I have had 3 experiences with HBWR. My first 2 were with 8 and 10 seeds respectively. Both gave similar effects which consisted of me feeling sedated and nauseated. And once those effects pased it felt more like rolling than tripping. On my 3rd experience I tried 13 seeds (yes I realize now that my seeds were not of the best quality, but I don't really know where to get the ones that require only 4 seeds for full effects) and it gave me a trip as deep and powerful as a high dose of mushrooms or LSD. At the time of the trip I was swearing that it was the most amazing experience of my life and could never be topped. I felt the oneness I do on LSD and the connection to nature I do on mushrooms. The seeds truly are amazing and if you have been disappointed by them I recommend you try again either with a different batch or a higher dose." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Psychedelics_r_best: "The only time I had a marvelous LSA experience was when I ground up about 500 seeds, put them in lemonade, chugged down, and smoked weed about two hours later. It was amazing. Like nothing else I've ever tried. Visuals and all." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ dilated_pupils: "I did 10 grams (appox. 300 seeds) of Morning Glory Heavenly Blues. The first time it was just amazing, intense visuals, morphing, tracers, my mind was going insane. I had a great time! The second time however, I ended up feeling sick the whole time, and tripped way too hard and found myself having a bad time so I just went to bed." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- xxanxx: "I always had great sucess doing the simple cold water extraction on the MG seeds. I usually use about 15-20 grams and grind them up, soak in cold distilled water, and filter through a t-shirt. Then I add a teaspoon or two of ginger (for upset stomachs) and smoke a joint or two-- great trip, more powerful than any acid I've taken!" -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

09-01-06, 10:26	#20 (permalink)
odrorir Mycophiliac Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 79	I really think stretchman's tek is way off base, I found the method Weber actually used somewhere, I will grab it. Quote--*Remember that when Stretchman took his everclear tincture of morning glory seeds (after having been de-fatted with reagent grade petroleum ether to rid it of the nauseating compounds -- that it resulted in a highly lucid and visual psychedelic trip, whereas when he took the tar (which had all of the alcohol evaporated out of it) it resulted in a very different effect--the psychedelic effects were not to his liking. He way prefered the tincture to the tar. The tincture showed him endless vistas...he likened the effects to taking your best 2 to 10 hit acid trip and multiplying the effects by two.

09-01-06, 11:41	#21 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Yes, Webster's tek is interesting. The only info I have on it is about a paragraph long (the discussion about it at the Jan 2006 LSD symposium) and it doesn't go into much detail for a non-chemist. I believe it is a double acid-base type of extraction. Pharmboy is interested as well in Webster's method and plans to explore it further. Being a non-chemist, I would need a detailed tek that may be developed one day in order to follow it in theory.

09-01-06, 14:49	#23 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Here it is: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In January at the Conference in Basel, a speaker Peter Webster brought up his experiments w/ extractions of Morning Glories. Which involved a simple basified extract (I'll detail below) of Morning Glories which yielded ~2mL of a light colored syrup that flouresced bright blue under UV (which is characteristic for for simple lysergic acid amides) with ~2mg of this syrup was obtained a full on psychedelic experience remarked equally as strong as high dose LSD trips he had experienced. At the conference he goes on to hypothesize that a ergine/isoergine basified solution was likely the Kykeon of Eleusis. Though he admits there remains uncertainty about ergine/isoergine and their psychoactivity in isomeric equilibrium; as such it remains to be pointed out why some people with some preparations HIT THE BULL'S EYE! and others get little other than SEDATION. ... The procedure involved extracting finely powdered Heavenly Blue Morning Glories w/ Ethanol. Most ethanol was evaporated off in a rotovap, added a bit more water, basified the messy solution w/ ammonia (to make sure alkaloids weren't in the salt form) & extracted 3x w/ dichloromethane, combined extracts were extracted with w/ water containing 5% tartaric acid. The alkaloidal-tartarate solution was basified w/ ammonia and extracted w/ dichloromethane. Evaporate DCM leaving a light coloured syrup that fluoresced bright blue under blacklight. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also this: QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times." "Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pharmboy believes it is a double acid-base type extraction. It may also be possible to contact Peter Webster directly to get more insight, I've seen his contact information posted thru a simple search on google. I believe he is the founder of the on-line psychedelic library and actively involved in some other groups on-line. username J. Alfred Prufrock was able to contact him (over at bluelight.nu) to get his comments on a discussion back in mid-August concerning a thread on the subject of the equilibrium conformation theory with ergine/iso-ergine and his comments in response to what Prof. Nichols had to say about his speech at the Basil symposium. Erowid also has this acid-->base extraction process that can be continued as many times as desired: http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...raction1.shtml I also found an interesting paper entitled "LSD and its Lysergamides" by Prof. Nichols, Ph.D link below. The paper states mechanisms of possible actions of LSD including interacting with brain 5-HT2A receptors--activation of the receptor by LSD typically only reaches 25% of the maxiumum, whereas serotonin reaches 100%. It also has actions at many other brain receptors that may amplify, modulate, or influence its overall effects on consciousness. http://www.heffter.org/review/Review...roups%20LSD%22 Abbreviated Name ------------------------- R ------------------------ R1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LSD-25 ----------------------------------- CH2CH3 ------------------ CH2CH3 Ergonovine (Ergometrine) -------------------- CH3 -------------------- CH2OH d-Lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethylamide) ----- CH3 ------------------------ OH ergine------------------------------------------H---------------------------H some of the compounds found in the seeds.

09-18-06, 00:53	#25 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	Interesting read...! thanx...

09-18-06, 11:03	#26 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Thanks golly. Last bit of valuable tips & insights to add: QUOTE from hermes: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try more time and more water. The water was cold was it not? (Heat destroys LSA) Was it tap water? If so, the chlorine will destroy LSA. Try distilled water. Try also minimizing exposure of the stuff to light, as UV destroys LSA. Also, sometimes the seeds you get are just plain weak. When did you buy them? Old seeds are less potent, I think, and during the winter, any available seeds are from last year's crop. Try some new ones come spring. Brand of seed seems to make a difference too. I seem to get better results from those grown in Holland. It usually says on the package where they are grown. Also, I think you had too many filtration steps. Some of the LSA might have ended up in the T-shirt. It seems to me that when filtering mush, the most potent stuff is the slimy crap that stays in the filter unless you squeeze it through. I think a coffee filter is too fine and too weak to let this stuff through without breaking. Try filtering through a very fine, but strong, piece of cloth and wringing it, squeezing all the goo through. When you grind the seeds, don't grind them too fine. You want the dark outer shell-like part of the seed to remain in big enough pieces that it doesn't come through. My favorite (because it is so simple) method is to grind the seeds and then put the powder in a big family size tea bag. I then place this into a glass of cold distilled water and squeeze the bag against the side of the glass periodically with a spoon. I usually extract for about 20 minutes like this, trying to get the most of the "milky" stuff from the bag without tearing the bag. If you want, after you do this and drink the water, you can even suck on the tea bag a little to get more out of it. It seems to me that with longer extractions, more brown stuff (tannins?) gets into the water and at this point, I think the extraction has been too long. You want the off-white or slightly tan stuff, but not the darker brown stuff. With this tea bag method, since you can't squeeze too much for fear of breaking the bag, the extractions seem to be slightly less potent, so you might need more seeds. I find that I get moderate effects (great closed eye visuals, good insights, very mild open eye effects, powerful music enhancement) with about 10-14 grams of Burpee seeds. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- editor's note: buchner funnel/flask/filter paper might possibly be helpful if needed to remove brown tannins. Sync and Meteor at ayahuasca.com were successful using buchner fliter setups to remove tannins from their HCL ayahuasca extract solutions to arrive at a potent & clean nausea-free ayahuasca (hcl evaporated off) powder that was then re-constituted in water at a later date: http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/vi...&highlight=hcl http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/vi...&highlight=hcl This method incited quite a bit of controversy from the traditionalist at the forum who insisted that nausea should remain in the brew, the use of scientific materials & methods in the extraction process, etc. QUOTE from hermes: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Make sure, if you try it, that you understand dosage for each kind of seed. With Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, 2-10 seeds can work well. With Morning Glory seeds, 100-1000 seeds work well. Morning Glory seeds contain far less LSA, but are better in my opinion, since HBW seeds contain cyanogenic glycosides and are harder to come by. As far as Morning Glories go, the Heavenly Blue variety seems to be the most potent, although different brands vary in potency. Flying Saucers and Pearly Gates are weaker, and are much lighter in color. The best seeds are black, while the worst are light tan. Always start with a small dose your first time to get an idea of how potent they are. 100-200 Heavenly Blues is a good starter dose, which should give a mild psychedelic experience with some mild closed eye visuals. Higher doses are required for paradigm shifting experiences, however. Doses around 1000 seeds can send you to Heaven or Hell. Be careful. Also, you want to be more careful of high doses on LSA than you would on LSD since LSA has vasoconstrictive effects. It contracts blood vessels and so reduces circulation, which can make you numb or tingly in the extremities, and through frequent use of high doses, can cause gangrene and even loss of extremities in extreme cases. In moderate and infrequent doses that are well-extracted, you have no need to worry about this. Just don't mix LSA with other vasoconstrictive substances like ephedrine. Also, pregnant women should never use any ergot-like compound, like LSD or LSA, as these can cause uterine contractions and induce labor. Actually, the compound doctors use to induce labor is similar to LSD and LSA, and I believe it comes from ergot, just like LSA and, with a little synthesis, LSD. Don't think the MG seeds thing is just a myth, like smoking banana peels. It really works and so is also a serious and potentially dangerous drug, just like any psychedelic. Treat it with the same respect with which you would treat LSD, psilocybin, or mescalin. You shouldn't take ephedrine with ergot alkaloids, as it is a vasoconstrictive compound and will increase the vasoconstriction caused by the LSA and its close relatives. You especially shouldn't take LSA along with ephedrine and caffeine and nicotine, as all of these drugs have vasoconstrictive effects. Gangrene anyone? In fact, I have experimented with this combo (cold tea from 800 MG seeds + 50mg ephedrine) before and it made my extremites go very nearly totally numb. I had lots of intense tingling in my hands and feet, as if they had gone to sleep. During part of the experience, I actually had pretty significant pain in the veins in my hands. Besides, I noticed that for some strange reason, the ephedrine seemed to diminish the desired effects of the LSA. Really, ephedrine is a nasty drug no matter how you use it. It seems to me that you will get less lethargy and nausea if you perform the water extraction and get a purer product. Those nasty nonpolar compounds seem to contribute a great deal to the lethargy, nausea, headache, tunnel-vision, etc. With a good water extraction, I get none of that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE (Sept 2006) from hermes: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for visuals, I can't even begin to describe most of them. And my memory of them is likely not very accurate since it has been a few years. I tend to translate the experiences into a form that I can remember, as the real thing cannot be represented with sober thought. The visuals are beyond representation for the most part. All that I can give you are general themes. I tended to see what seemed to be a four-dimensional lattice structure that appeared to be "behind" things, as if everyday reality were just a bright projection that obscured the real luminous hyperspatial structure behind it. Things tended to have eyes and feathers on them. Often what dominated the visuals was a winged eye in the center of my vision. Often, instead of wings, the eye was surrounded by colorful mandalic geometric forms or organic patterns like vegetation. But it was very common to see a serene eye in the focal point of my visual field with all sorts of fantastic forms radiating from it. I also saw lots of angelic forms and gothic celestial architecture, particularly when listening to Mozart's Requiem on god headphones while tripping with my eyes closed. I saw a vision of a pyramid, floating in the air, with the Eye of Ra on it, and with a sword piercing it from beneath. The sword was entwined with two cobras, as in a caduceus. And around this pyramid atop a snake entwined sword were four large luminous feathered wings, each one a distance out from each corner of the pyramid, coming from beneath the whole figure and reaching above it, almost as though the wings were guarding it. This whole figure has obvious occult meaning. I just wonder why the images are so typically Egyptian in character, at least for me. I have found many things similar to my visions in the art of Alex Grey. The eyes all over things, the energy lattices, and so on, are all very similar to what I have seen. Have you seen Grey's painting called "Dying" ? That eye-filled vortex pattern is something that I have seen. It seemed to me at least while I was tripping that the winged eye that dominated things was my soul, maybe something like the "ba" of the Egyptians. I once saw it rising up to meet the light, as if I was underwater seeing the sun above the surface and my soul was flying up to join the sun. I also once saw a great field of eggs, above which was a giant watchful eye, surveying the field of eggs. Some of the eggs were cracking, and the cracks were lined with peering eyes. Every exposed opening was filled with eyes. And I could see myself as one of these cracking eggs. Another time, I saw myself as a red dragon, what seemed to be my true form in this hyperspace, flying up, seeking the Source. All of the visuals have a quality that I can't describe well, verbally or with illustrations. Everything in that interior realm seems made of subtle energy and is luminous. It also often seems to have more than three spatial dimensions. It usually has a very detailed and very ordered structure, very mathematical, but arranged with a kind of structural harmony that is never seen in the physical world. The structures are beautiful beyond description. It is like visual music, with the sizes and positions shapes seemingly related by some kind of precise law that binds everything together in the most perfect harmony. The flawed forms of our world compared to those perfectly harmonious ones of that world are like the cacophany of a cocktail party compared to a symphony by Beethoven. Visual order like that has never been seen in physical form, in the natural world or in art. Fractal geometry sometimes resembles it, but still falls very short. I did some drawing while on MG seeds and discovered some principles of visual harmony that I hope to fully realize one day and apply to painting. I think that it might be possible to revolutionize design with laws of structural harmony the way that Pythagoras revolutionized music with his discoveries of the harmonics of sound waves. I think that current visual art is probably like music before Pythagoras, with artists not understanding the laws of form and just basically working by trial and error to get something aesthetically pleasing. Primitive music was sometimes harmonious, but the real stuff was not unleashed until music theory was well understood. Much of my MG trips have revolved around harmony one way or another. Playing a didgeridoo while tripping taught me a lot about sound waves and resonance. It was wonderful! It was all very Pythagorean and makes me wonder if the discoveries of Pythagoras were not aided by similar compounds, maybe through something like the eating of ergot infected grain. Plato has spoken of similar things and alludes to them with his Allegory of the Cave. And it is thought that he was an initiate in the Eleusinian Mysteries, which may have involved the ingestion of ergot infected grain. Seeing this celestial realm, I suddenly realized where all of the great architects, designers, and artists were getting their inspiration from! I could especially see it in the sacred architecture of the great gothic cathedrals, the great mosques, Indian temples, and so on. Check out these Indian temples, which are somewhat reminiscent of some of the subtle luminous structures seen on LSA and other compounds: http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~ruins/st...a1/india1.html http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...lingaraja.html But what really struck me is how this harmonious order is everywhere in our universe. The universe is governed by mathematical harmonies. They determine the structure of everything. The whole shebang seems to have harmony near its root. I don't even know how to begin talking about what I got into there. I think that one reason that I have not yet gone back is that it was all a bit much. I still have not digested it! I could make a career out of the insights I gained in just a few minutes of any one of my more amazing trips. As is probably obvious, I think that there is more to this than just chemicals and the brain. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As far as Erowid reports, I found these two interesting due to the increased visual activity that resulted with lights turned off: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=21080 and this combination report: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=5316

09-18-06, 14:13	#27 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	Lots of fascinating reports here...If we could just summerize it all somehow. For instance, is it worth the effort to aquire Pet Ether for extraction when there are so many positive reports using just distilled cold water..... If you were to create the best formula for a strong trip today ,how would YOU do it...? The vasoconstriction thing is proly the biggest negative for this ole geezer.. but thanx again i've enjoyed this li'l post Tregar...

09-18-06, 21:17	#28 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Thanks Golly. I will be dreaming of both methods (the cold-water extractions 1st) then maybe the high grade P.E. method second. Build a light proof brushless fan box for evaporation of P.E. from the seed mush with the P.E. method, will use 190% proof everclear and will be working under a red light. For the cold-water extractions, will be using a stirrer with stir bar magnet, two small strainers attached together to hold the family sized tea bags of mush dunked in a large glass holding the very cold distilled water, away from light, for a period of 5 to 7 minutes, then maybe filtering through a buchner setup with #1 filter paper--to post dream results here in a few months. A pinch of tartaric acid could be used to stabilize the solution amides in salt form in an amber light proof bottle. Will be trying different brands of heavenly blue's in my dreams. I don't dream of seeds picked directly from fresh plants, but maybe one day. Ergolines are exceedingly sensitive, easily decomposed substances--sensitive to light, heat and air. Herme's experiences sound very similar to my high-dose acid trips many many eons ago. I would also back then see "4-dimensional lattice like structures" spinning in mid-air with eyes closed with the most fascinating animated mathematically harmonious patterns--breathtaking, as well as Egyptian pyramids with the glistening sands, dragons in the air, and saw a trio of small white angels holding hands and slowly dancing in a circular motion around a bush in the yard. Music was also very much enhanced.

09-18-06, 22:41	#29 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	Looking foreward to your "dream" experience ...In the meantime ,there's a fresh harvest coming in as we speak...I'm going for the water method... And for the benefit of all the boys and girls out there.....Archive material..

09-19-06, 17:57	#30 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Thanks, archiving would be a good idea. Looking forward to your experiences in the future. Fresh seeds are best. There can be up to a 16 fold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced according to Mr. Cloud. Mrs. Superweed saids the following: "As the months pass stored seeds lose both their viability and their psychoactive properties. Broken or damaged seeds also swiftly lose both of these powers." Below is information that I have not found (and cannot be found) anywhere on the web but is from 2 old sources: Mr. Cloud states the following: "The combination of genetic factors, environmental conditions, and soil chemistry create as much as a sixteenfold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced. Hormone treatment and attention to soil conditions and nutrients, however, go a long way toward maximizing the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest. The ideal soil pH, or soil acidity, for producing seeds of high potency is around 6.5. Soil pH test kits are sold at nurseries and gardening supply outlets, which also sell formulas for adjusting soil pH levels. Soils high in nitrogen and phosphates and low in potassium produce seeds of high lysergic acid amide content. Ideal soil potassium content for this purpose is approximately 1.5 parts per 100 parts dry soil. Soil tests kits sold at nurseries are used to check soil levels of nitrogen, phospates, and potassium. Individual nutrients as well as nutrient formulas sold at these locations are used to adjust soil levels of these substances. In order to keep soil potassium content low, cultivators use sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate as a nitrogen source, and use sodium acid phosphate--as opposed to potassium acid phosphate--as a phoshate source. Treatment with a hormone called gibberellic acid is used to maximize the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest. Cultivators using pure gibberellic acid dissolve one gram in one liter of distilled water. When the plants are still seedlings, they add a few drops of this solution to the soil around each plant before watering. They repeat this procedure every two weeks as the plant grows, using more solution each time until they are using about a half ounce of gibberellic acid per plant when the plants are fully grown. Timing is an important aspect of treatment with gibberellic acid. Since this hormone delays the maturation of the plants and inhibits production of flowers and seeds, treatment is discontinued a few weeks before the plants are to flower. Morning Glories are planted in the Spring when there is no longer any danger of frost. The cultivation process starts by soaking the seeds in water overnight. An alternative to soaking is to nick the coating of the seed with a sharp blade. The seeds are planted about one-half inch deep and at least six inches apart in fine, loosely-packed, light-textured soil. As the vine grows, they are supported on trellises. Morning Glory seeds are harvested in the Fall at the end of the growing season, when the concentration of lysergic acid amides is at its highest. Morning Glory seeds are ripe when they have become dark and hard." From Mrs. Superweed: "The likely range in any species may fall between .005% and .079% total indole alkaloids in different batches of seeds. Freshly harvested seeds are best. Sow seeds in their permanent location after danger of frost is past. The seed has a hard protective coat and may be slow to germinate. To hasten germination soak seeds in water overnight. Some experts advise cutting or filing the side of the seed farthest from the germ eye just enough that some white appears. I have tested both methods and found that the soaked seeds sprout faster and have a better chance of survival than the scratched seeds. Plant seeds 1/2 inch deep under fine soil, not less than six inches apart. Be sure to provide a fence, trellis or strings to support the fast-growing vines. If, at maturity, the vines do not seem inclined to produce flowers, stop watering for a few days and generally cut back on watering after that, but not so much that the plants wilt. This will hasten blooming. After that normal watering may be resumed. Morning glories grow easily with very little care. Our task, however, is to get them to produce a maximum percentage of alkaloids. One factor influencing this is soil chemistry. Test your soil with a soil test kit, available for a low price at most nurseries. The soil should have a pH factor of about 6.5, a high phosphate and low potassium content. High phosphate concentration increases indole alkaloid formation. Low potassium content of about 1.5 parts to 100 parts dry soil aids free tryptophan accumulation and biosynthesis. It also produces a low indoleacetic acid content, which means that more indole alkaloids will be formed. This can be accomplished by using sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate for a nitrogen source and sodium hydrophosphate instead of potassium hydrophosphate to increase the phosphate content. Experiments show that certain plant hormones also have a positive influence on the alkaloid potency of morning glories. A solution of one gram gibberellic acid in one quart water can be used on the soil around the roots once every two weeks. Begin this treatment while plant is in the seedling stage. Use only a few drops at first and increase the amount as the plant size increases so that when the plant is full size you are using up to 1/2 ounce of solution per treatment. Gibberellic acid costs about $5 per gram at most chemical companies. It stimulates growth as well as alkaloid production. Therefore its use must be discontinued several weeks before flowering time. Further experiments indicate that growth-inhibiting auxins such as alpha naphthalene acetic acid can also increase the combinations of these substances on the potency of morning glory seeds. We are interested in hearing the results of your experiments. But even without the use of hormones and auxins amazing results can be achieved by employing the soil chemistry control method described in this article."

09-19-06, 18:27	#31 (permalink)
Bluejay Mycophiliac Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 54	THANK YOU....

09-24-06, 21:32	#33 (permalink)
eastwood Mycotopiate Join Date: Jul 1972 Posts: 2,912	good info.. thanks for the time you spent putting this together

09-24-06, 22:07	#34 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,198	I'm having a tough time finding P.E. too , without some kind of pre registration- identification...So i'm opting for the distilled h2o method ..I'm not willing to resort to lower grade Pet either...

09-24-06, 22:54	#35 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Hi everyone. Yes, eastwood it took a long time to study this subject and put the info together...glad you like it! but I think I struck the goldmine when I discovered all of the postings by accident buried in the other forum (2 months later) from hermes. And even more so, when I contacted him and he sent me about 3 pages of new material and more trip reports (see Sept 2006 visuals report in post #26 for example.) He like me would like for this to remain underground and for it to not get much exposure--to leave it to those "in the know" as the quantity of remaining legal plant psychedelics is rapidly disappearing. But as you've probably discovered there are not many published accounts of morning glory trips. In fact, you would discover that finding incredible reports like those of hermes, nogal, stretchman, or peter webster is like trying to find a needle in a haystack amidst all the material on the internet or books. Even Peter Webster appears to have kept the trip reports of his trips to himself other than describing them as "just as potent as high-dose LSD trips" he's had. I am forever thankful that hermes shared as much as he has--he is also very intelligent and a great writer. Hermes mentioned to me that he sometimes regrets sharing so much about the seeds and says: "I have not used MG seeds for a number of years now. Recently, the only psychedelic that I have been experimenting with is salvia. But some of those MG trips are my most memorable. The profound religious experiences that I had with MG seeds are among the high points of my life. I am still working on some of the avenues of exploration that were initiated in at least one of those trips." Hermes saids "This kind of thing is best kept underground. There are only a few ways of accessing psychedelics without resorting to risky business or dealing with the black market. I, for one, don't want to get anywhere close to dealers." "Anyway, something that I will suggest and that I currently practice is to not promote MG seed use too loudly. It might be best to let people make mistakes and get nausea with them. The less positive attention they get, the less likely the gov. is to step in and stop legal seed distribution. "I actually regret having spoken so glowingly of MG seeds in the past. I would rather they have a reputation for nausea and only slight psychedelic effects. If everyone thought that it was a bogus thing like smoking banana peels, that would be fine by me." I'm sorry I can't help if your unable to find the reagent grade p.e., but I don't see how you could go wrong either by using a properly-performed short distilled cold-water extraction. I think the real trick to this is getting fresh, potent, good strain/gene seeds (with a high indole content) that have been stored in cool conditions, and not sitting around in heat for ages--I would love to hear an experience of fresh seeds right off the plant. If any of you happen to live near one of the few remaining open K-marts then I think you would be very lucky there too, some over 300 under-performing stores were closed due to competition from Walmart and Target. By the way, I ran 3 experiments thus far. I have past experience with acid, psilocybin, and cactus extract. I would be thrilled if I could experience visuals like hermes did using the holland grown fresh seeds. Heck, I'd be happy just to see even the most basic twirling geometric form with eyes closed at this point with the seeds. As an artist, I value the visual aspects highly of these entheogens. Why am I so interested in the seeds? For one, its the VERY interesting visual reports from hermes, nogal, Peter Webster and others. Two, it is because if the visuals are anything like my past acid experiences (and judging from hermes reports they are very similar) then this is worth studying. Three, although I have had some very good and very visual experiences with psilocybin in the past, I believe like Dr. Hofmann that the psilocybin inebriation (and this may just apply to my own individual perception and not anyone else) is more darkly colored in the majority of cases than the inebriation produced by LSD. As Dr. Hofmann states in "LSD My Problem Child, page 174"--"The influence of these two substances is sure to differ from one individual to another. Personally, for me, there was more light in the LSD experiments than in the experiments with the earthly mushroom, just as Ernst Junger remarks in the preceding report." This is a clip from Junger's report on the page before: "These were the earthy mushrooms. More light was hidden in the dark grain that burst from the ear, more yet in the green juice of the succulents on the glowing slopes of Mexico...[Translator's note: Junger is referring to LSD, a derivative or ergot, and mescaline, derived from the Mexican peyotl cactus.]" There were 3 men including Hofmann who each took 20mg of psilocybin together that day--they all experienced a dark trip (the trip reports are detailed from pages 168 to 175. When Junger (who had much experience with mescaline) first tried Hofmann's LSD with him at a low dose, he remarked "your LSD is but a mere housecat compared to mescaline." He later took his words back when he tried a higher dose of LSD. See post #24 and #26 above to read of herme's very visual encounters with the cold-water 30 minute seed extracts. I tried a cold water extraction of about 300 seeds from an on-line entheogen supplier of heavenly blue's. I may not have ground that material fine-enough though. I used a coffee grinder, then used a mortar and pestal to grind after the coffee grinding. The crushed material was soaked for about 10 minutes.The water was white and light tan colored, but not brown. I drank the solution but noticed zero effects. (Next time I think I will use a stirrer with spin magnet to stir the solution for a period closer to 30 minutes but not to exceed this 30 minute time frame.) I then did another cold-water extraction of about 400 more seeds from the same bulk seed batch--and again no effects. I kept eveything out of light. I worked in a dark room with only a 40-watt red light (like the kind used for reptiles while they sleep). You can find them at your local pet store. The next day I did a reagent grade petroleum ether extract of a different batch of bulk seeds from a different entheogen supplier (this particular batch #2 glowed 5 times brighter green in everclear that the light green glowing weaker batch in a same amount using 1 oz everclear). The crushed seed material was soaked for 20 minutes with vigorous shaking in the p.e., then the material was filtered thru a coffee filter over a one-liter jar with a rubber band holding the coffee filter to it. The left-over jar of spent reagent p.e. was only slightly cloudy or dis-colored. After about 45 minutes...all of the p.e. was in the jar, and only the wet fine and semi-fine crushed seed material was left on the filter. The coffee filter holding the finely crushed seeds was then put into a light proof brushless sparkless fan box, which has a brushless 4" cpu fan on either side of the black box with 90 degree black pvc pipes attached to the outside of the box as air inlets and exhaust outlets. The fan on the right (inlet fan) pushed air into the black box, and the fan on the left pushed air out of the box (the outlet fan).This kept light to a minimum entering the box, but kept air flow at a maximum. As a matter of fact, this box stayed extremely dark and kept virtually all trace of light out it. In the center was suspended a large strainer which held the coffee filter of finely crushed seeds to dry. The box was plugged in, and was able to completely evaporate any remaining p.e. from the seeds in very little time. 4" circles were cut on either side of the platic black file type box using a hole cutter mounted to a drill. Two circular 4" in diameter 90 degree elbow pipes were found (the insides of the pipe were painted flat black) and 4 small 1" angle pieces were used to mount the light blocking pipes to the box where the fans were mounted in the inside. This "evaporator" allowed the evaporation process to proceed rapidly free from light which is known to degrade amides. The reagent grade p.e. works very well. The seed mush was evaporated of any remaining p.e. after only a few hours! I then let it sit in the box running the fans over night for safety's sake. In the morning the super-dry seed mush (very clean--had no smell or residue at all) was mixed with 3oz of everclear, and left to sit in the fridge for 6 hours with shaking every hour. The extract was then filtered thru a buchner setup, (this only took a few minutes and proceeded very quickly) and about an 8gram final clean seed extract was then drank. It glowed only slightly aquamarine (more of a green color -- definately not blue though) under a 40-watt blacklight. I got no effects, so I tried the remaing 6 grams on top of that--( a total of 15 grams or 500 seeds) again no effects. I believe that the "bulk seeds" from the 2 different suppliers I had used were very weak and old, and I am weary of ever using another "entheogen" supplier of seeds as I don't get any dating on the packages indicating how old these seeds could be. In other words, there is no way to tell if you ever will get fresh seeds. I got no effects from either the cold-water extraction or the reagent grade extract. The reagent grade extract did a perfect job of eliminating any trace of nausea however. Practically all of the k-marts have gone out of business and I would be hard-pressed to find the very-potent Martha Stewart brand without making a very long round-trip road trip--but perhaps this Spring I will do just that. Not to mention, with it being Fall, all of the stores have put away their seed stock. When the spring rolls round, they will be back though. In the next few months, I will be trying fresh seeds (from this year) grown in holland, and elsewhere. They are much more expensive. Hermes mentioned that he had great results for many years with fresh seeds (dated the same year on the packs) grown in holland, trying two different suppliers of fresh seeds (both marked "grown in holland" on the packets). With the seeds I used, I don't where they came from or how old they were. I even shined a pocket flashlight into my eyes, then closed them to see if the after-image would develop into anything interesting visually--but nothing at all. The seeds I used must have been very old indeed to experience no effects. Also next time, I will grind with the coffee grinder very very thoroughly to the point of bee pollen looking material--then mortar and pestal it very well. Sorry, no trip report with this report, as I got no effects from these seeds. It must be true that the seeds loose potency after many months, or else I just had 2 really bad strains of old or very weak seeds. Yes, this is disappointing but I don't give up so easily. I will also be experimenting with an everclear extract of potent dried cactus. I have tried pure mescaline extract(75 to 100mg below threshold dose) before but it kind of made me feel sickly and nauseated--didn't really like the way the extract came out--even though it was just like it was supposed to be--it didn't agree with me that well, and it made me feel like I didn't want to try it again. Hopefully, an everclear extract will sit differently with me. I do know that a threshold dose of water-extract cactus was very spiritual and enjoyable, but was limited to a low low dose for fear of getting into the nausea regions with higher doses. I haven't experienced light or medium doses yet--which are needed to get to the visuals. I'm also interested in huasca or dmt with an maoi. I've read Benny Shannon's book on huasca and many of the interesting posts here at the Myc on it. If anyone has any good visual experiences with cactus extract or huasca they would like to share, please let me know about this too--and also what level of nausea (if any) did you experience? Please describe your visuals. Aldous Huxley and William Blake in the book "Moksha" from pages 61 to 67 describe incredible mescaline visuals: "When the eyes are closed, visionary experience begins with the appearance in the visual field of living, moving geometries. These abstract, three-dimensional forms are intensely illuminated and brilliantly colored. After a time they tend to take on the appearance of concrete objects, such as richly patterned carpets, or mosaics, or carvings. These in turn modulate into rich and elaborate buildings, set in landscapes of extra-ordinary beaty. Neither the buildings nor the landscapes remain static, but change continuously. In none of their metamorphoses do they resemble any particular building or landscape seen by the subject in his ordinary state and remembered from the near or distant past. These things are all new. The subject does not remember or invent them; he discovers them, "out there," in the psychological equivalent of a hitherto unexplored geographical region." Now back on the subject.... Also, I performed a few seperate experiments with the 2 different batches of seeds. Batch #1 of 300 seeds from entheogen supplier #1 when soaked in everclear glowed only slightly aquamarine (light yellow-green) while Batch #2 of 300 seeds when soaked in everclear glowed about 5 times brighter (again, yellow-green, but brighter fluorescent glow to it). These were not consumed, but were just some experiments to gauge how brightly they would glow under a blacklight--to see if I could gauge any potency effects by glow. The extracts glowed a type of greenish fluorescent yellow but did not glow bright blue at all. Maybe this would explain the lack of potent amides in the seeds? Now that Halloween is near, it is easy to find inexpensive 15 and 40 watt blacklights at stores. I failed to mention this earlier, but I also added 1/2 teaspoon (3%) of tartaric acid to the 3oz of everclear holding the dried seed mush while in the fridge for 6 plus hours with shaking to aid in the alcohol extraction and for conversion of the free base alkaloids to the more stable salt form. Ideally, the everclear/seed extract should probably sit for 3 days in the fridge but we still don't have any clear answers on this either until we get more results. Report back in a couple months again after trying the more expensive seeds. The heavenly-blue MG seeds from the two different suppliers I used were INACTIVE, and also did not glow "bright blue" in an alcohol solution under a blacklight, but rather "yellow-green". The one other thing these early experiments taught me is that I no longer have to fear being nauseated or getting ill-effects working with the seed extracts--and for this I am thankful. There was no nausea (other than a slight heavy feeling in the stomach for a very short period in the beginning) with the water-extracts and absolutely no trace of nausea or stomach feelings with the p.e. extract nor was there any kind of "petroleum aftertaste/burp/odors" like there might have been using lesser grades. Please keep me posted of your cold-water or other method experiences if possible.

09-26-06, 08:41	#36 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	From what I've been able to tell by researching on the net, When you go to k-mart you are most likely just paying double the price for a pack of burpee seeds with her name on it. It's been rumored that the Martha Stewart brand is actually re-packaged burpee seeds, of which the MG seeds have been grown in holland.

09-26-06, 20:49	#37 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	The fact that my last step everclear extractions did not glow bright blue under a 40 watt blacklight obviously means that the two different batches of seeds I used were not active anymore...also taking up to 12 grams of the 1st batch and up to 14 grams of the 2nd batch cwe and p.e.e. resulted in zero effects. Peter Webster as well as Dr. D mention that their potent seed extracts glowed "bright blue" under blacklight. If I get lucky and the next batch of (premium seeds this time not bulk seeds) glows bright blue under blacklight, I will definately take a picture and post it, as well as provide a trip report.

09-26-06, 21:11	#38 (permalink)
Bluejay Mycophiliac Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 54	I just hit this next batch with HCL water(yes I was lazy and did not get the digital ph meter out. I plan of finding the right number for everyone.. my guess when I made it was shooting around a 5.) I put alittle hcl water into the acetone after the LSA had been pulled and seperated from the seed pulp Upon drying there isnt any trace of crusty brown solids only A PURE yellow oil. about a half gel cap full from 250 seeds or so(40 grams actually, are you gonna take the time and count.) I will try this weekend...

09-26-06, 21:12	#39 (permalink)
tregar Mycotopiate Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 501	Bluejay, what color would you say your extract looked like under a blacklight? I have looked at the pics you posted but maybe you could give me a better idea of what color it is. By the way, are the mg seeds you are using from a dated pack or were they picked fresh from a plant or are they from a bulk supplier? I was very disappointed in the cheaper bulk seeds. Look forward to hearing your report with the mg's. I have a few days off at the end of next week and will then be getting around to trying out the premium seeds with the reagent method 1st because I want to get to an alcohol extract to see if it glows a different color than the inactive bulk seeds, I also like this method since it had not even the slightest trace of nausea, I am just wondering how much decomposition is taking place when the evaporator fans are blowing over the amides for 4 to 10 hours, and this is why I will compare the results with a 20 minute cold-water extraction of same seed quantity and same batch.

09-26-06, 21:26	#40 (permalink)
cap ~~ confusion's prince ~~ Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,559	thanks for the book skimmed and will get back to it when i can. lots of trusty info here.