My Bufo Alvarius(s)!

[NiRvaNa]

Well I ordered two Bufo from BBB, and I must say I was amazed at how quickly they arrived! I would recommend to anyone who has thought about getting one, to get one now! they are having a sale on them, $75 a piece. That's half off what they normally are! Anyways I am very pleased with my order, I have them setup in a nice big 55 gallon tank. At first the male was really sitting in the corners looking like he wanted out bad, but now they both seem to be settled in and happy. My tank is sorta bare, just pine chips and a water dish for now. A question for some of the experienced toad raisers. I am seeing crickets I dropped in for them sitting around. I'm assuming before they shipped them, they made an effort to really get them fed for the long ride. But I just wanted to check and make sure sometimes a smaller appetite for them is normal. They are at around 75 degrees, so its not cold.

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I do not own one, but it may take them a while to get used to their new environment. Which may a reason they may not be eating much. Good luck with your toads!

[PsychoDrogue]

I have my toad in a room thats usually 75 but i also have 2 different lights over him all day that bump the temp up a little more and provide a full spectrum. I noticed a big difference with the lights in general appetite and overall condition.

I feed my toad outside of his cage to prevent ingestion of bedding. I switched to a coir/sand mix a few months back and could probably feed him in his cage now, but its habit and easier to keep track of how much hes eaten feeding in an empty container.

If it takes them a while to acclimate dont worry, they can go a substantial period of time without food.

I find mine loves to have a pool large enough to submerge himself in. i found plastic kitty litter trays to be of adequate size he spends all day in the water most the time.

[KingKanibalKiller]

ive been thinking about getting some myself. couple of ?'s did you get the male female breeding pair? how big are they? could you post some pics? id really like to see them. and how were they shipped was it marked w/ species info or live specimen? pics would be AWESOME!

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I think even if you get male and female, Many people can't get them to mate in captivity.

[PsychoDrogue]

yeah, they require some sort of hormone injection for breeding in captivity. it's also a pretty large project to create the kinda environment hundreds of tadpols are gonna require.

I would still buy a pair though. I used to have two and they did well together. I will replace the one that died rip, even tho i dont plan on ever smoking the venom again.

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Why did he die psycho? Just curious.

[Mermaidia]

They may take some time to settle in. I dunno about the pine chips. We used a reptile bedding that was kinda like "chips" now we use coir. We've tried several of the beddings. If she didn't like it, she'd just sit in her water dish and wouldn't get out. They aren't the most active creatures and are nocturnal. We rarely see her unless she's in her water dish or wanting to be fed.

When she was smaller, Cm used to break the legs of the crickets so she could get them easier. Now we just put them in. Be sure to put some carboard, or part of an egg carton in there ( the paper kind) so the crickets will have something to chew on. Otherwise they may pick at the toads. The weather is changing here so we use a heat lamp when it starts getting cooler.
Also, it's my belief that they have an internal clock. In the wild they hibernate during the winter months. Last winter ours did not. But her appetite really slowed down and we saw her less. IF you are going to try and let them hibernate, don't feed them any big meals that they won't be able to digest. The food will rot in their stomach and they can die.
Also i'll suggest getting a calcium and vitamin supplement. Bufo's have been known to have calcium dificencies in captivity. You can sprinkle it on the crickets while they are in the bag. Kinda like shake n bake. If you aren't opposed to feeding pinkies, the live are much easier. If you get the frozen you will have to find a way to make it "move". We use a clothes hanger.

Be careful feeding mealworms. I have read that they can chew on the toad's stomach lining. It's best to pinch the heads off. ewwwwww

[NiRvaNa]

Originally Posted by KingKanibalKiller

ive been thinking about getting some myself. couple of ?'s did you get the male female breeding pair? how big are they? could you post some pics? id really like to see them. and how were they shipped was it marked w/ species info or live specimen? pics would be AWESOME!

And yea I got male and female, but I am learning that a breeding environment is extremely difficult to imitate. So who knows if I'll ever pull it off. And I got two that were pretty large- about 4 inches long and 2-3 inches wide. So they aren't babies. and the box was just marked fragile. What's funny is that I've been expecting a salvia plant, and BBB said they ship Bufo at the beginning of the week and I ordered on a wednesday night, so when I got a package on a friday I was expecting to be doing a plant transplant. Well I opened up the package and saw a bag made out of t-shirt material with tape on two ends, I was like hmmm strange they packaged a plant like this. Well when I picked up the bag I felt what seemed to be a balloon ( I wasn't rough, I handle plants like children :-D), it was the male and he made some upset noises, I was like Oh Damn! the Toads!

[KingKanibalKiller]

thats funny "upset sounds". thanks for the info tell them i said high. any names yet?

[Psilo-somatic]

I got one from BBB about a year ago. He barely eats and is really skinny. I keep having to give him electrolyte baths. Im really sad

[PsychoDrogue]

I bought my toads from a reptile trade site and one of them was just not as healthy from the beginning. at first i thought it was just getting bullied by the larger toad which stressed it out enough to stop eating but even after separating them the sickly toad never recovered. I had it for about 6 months and i think he only at twice, who knows how long before i got him he had been in the same state

[NiRvaNa]

Well its been two days, and not like that's enough to really determine anything, but the larger male has been in the same spot since yesterday. he is breathing, but he just shuts his eyes and lays there. I am really hoping he's just hibernating. It's not too cold. I keep it about 80 during the day and drop it to about 65-70 at night. Its just when I see the girl sprint from one end of the tank to the other after I leave the room and come back in about 2 minutes, it really makes me wonder. She has been doing great, I saw her sitting in the water this morning, and just tonight I saw she started a little burrow in the chips that I piled to both sides. my setup is kinda like a valley with a bowl of spring water in the middle. It just worries me a little when the male just sits, he hasn't really eaten. But today when I threw a cricket in and placed some egg carton cardboard in for the cricket in case they didnt eat them, the male did open his eyes and sit up, but I came back tonight and sure enough, still in the same spot laying there with his eyes closed. Any ideas?

[adio9454]

im pretty sure i have seen those where i live. and by knowing the region that the toads live you know about where i live and its not the state that prints are illegal. at any rate. i work at night and i know i have seen a couple of these. i had no clue about them at all untill i saw this thread very interesting that one would smoke the venom of a toad. and personal experiences??

[Mermaidia]

Do you have anything for them to "hide" under? Like i said earlier, they aren't the most active toads as they are nocturnal. Ours hides most of the day and comes out at night for food and water. Be sure to have them in a quiet place too. Too much noise can stress them out.

[NiRvaNa]

Yea there are plenty of large pine chips that they crawl up under,I also got a large half log, but I think I have to dig some more room out under it, they haven't been using it. And there isn't that much noise besides my occasional opening and closing of the door. But I love to see them, they seem to be doing alright, it always makes me smile when I see them sitting together. But I'm a little concerned with respect to their appetites. I keep throwing in live crickets, but I see them days later. I have put freeze dried crickets in a bowl, but I'm not so sure they are eating them as much as I expected. I have read they have a ferocious appetite, but this hasn't been exhibited in mine.

[Mermaidia]

You might want to consider changing the bedding to something a bit softer. I use coir now and she loves it. That may be the issue. I know when i used some other type of bark she got into her water dish and stayed there. After I changed it back she was back to herself.
They can be big eaters. But if they are grazing on the crickets that are in there, they aren't going to be as voracious. They will also have to get used to your feeding techniques. I know ours did. If you aren't against it, try getting a live pinkie or two and see what they do with that. For our toad, it doesn't take her long to notice it and it's gone quickly after. Our cage has a platform in it and that is where we feed her. When she's hungry, that's where she sits too.

[CoyoteMesc]

Sometimes ours stays out of sight for a week or better.
Other times, she is out for weeks at a time....I cant figure it out..
I do know Merm is right, when she wants to eat, she knows where
to go.

[Baphomet]

10 years ago I went to a peyote ceremony in New Mexico, where they were running wild all over.

I captured 9 toads. Brought them to a location in Texas, milked 2 and released the rest.

Went there 4 months ago, and there are now hundreds if not more.

I will never milk again. I will never hurt another toad. I only hope that the toads forgive me and appreciate their new home next to a lake on 75 acres of land.

Not worth it IMO.

Peace...

[CoyoteMesc]

damn...guess it goes to show you, learn your doing first.
If you do your homework it wont hurt the toad. I dont milk mine as
I dont feel the desire but to each is own. No harm is done if you
do some research and go easy til you get the hang of it. Dont plan
to get a shot glass full.

Hurting the toads by milking is stopped by education.

[assmonkey75]

I owned an alvarius for 7 years.

I do not believe it is possible to milk a toad without putting it under tremendous stress, if not outright pain. At the very least, these toads are very skittish: if provided a proper hiding spot (this is a necessary component of its enclosure), you will rarely see them out and about. Any handling is obviously very unpleasant for them. However, it is my opinion that the milking is actually painful for them. The agitation of the parotid gland is much akin to the popping of a large zit, if you will forgive the unfortunate imagery. Perhaps there is a more gentle technique, but honestly, I have a hard time imagining one, having seen what it takes to get these animals to express these defensive toxins.

If you are going to keep these (or any amphibians or reptiles), do not use pine in your enclosure. It contains phenols which are highly toxic and easily absorbed by the animal. Coco coir makes an excellent non-toxic bedding which they love to burrow in, and which dries quickly.

I'll be honest: I got my toad for the purpose of milking him. I did it once. That was enough, both in terms of torturing this animal and, in fact, the trip: it is never going to be a party drug. Glad I tried it, wouldn't do it again.

Then I kept him as a pet for 7 years. Buying a toad is a commitment to taking care of it. Is it worth it to buy and gut-load 50 crickets a week, clean your cage twice a week for 7 years for one experimental high? For most people the answer is no and the toad suffers in the form of neglect.

I really wish BBB wouldn't sell them. I do not feel it is responsible.

[entheogenetics]

I think it's unethical to sell or buy these toads. Would you like to be held in a miserable tiny microenvironment for the rest of your life? Try prison at best. Then you have these giant animals forcing your fluids out whenever they see fit. If you haven't already, please don't buy these toads. If you already have them be sure to go way out of your way to provide an optimum evironment for their happiness.

Really people, 5-meo and bufotenine aren't even pleasant experiences. If you want to smoke something that makes you trip make DMT, it's simple and much better than toad venom.

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To say 5meo dmt and bufotenin aren't pleasant experiences you would almost have to put DMT in on that one. I enjoy DMT but i wouldn't say it was a pleasant experience. I have also enjoyed 5meo DMT and bufotenin.

[CoyoteMesc]

Save a tree.....eat a beaver!

[NiRvaNa]

I appreciate everyone's feedback, and with respects to ethical treatment, my bufo are my pets, I carefully regulate their temps and am careful to provide the best living environment for them. I can see how it would be considered unnatural to keep these as pets, but I hardly think its better for them out in the wild where there are predators, food shortages, and harsh weather.

I switched out the pine, thanks a lot for the heads up, now they have coco coir and peat. Thanks guys!