Antibacterial Grain Soak Experiment

[reverend trips]

What I 'hope' comes from this is an easy way to prepare grains without the use of a pressure cooker and to put an end to losing jars to wet spot and other bacterial infections common to this hobby. I know thats asking for a lot, but I think it can be achieved.

My first experiment looks promising.

What I did was put some rye berries in a container and filled it with water, and squeezed in an unmeasured amount of Sunlight antibacterial soap (not sure how much really, but it was a good squirt, enough that I thought there was no way in hell that mycelium would want anything to do with the grains) stirred it up real good and put the lid on the container and let it sit for 24 hours. Then I poured the soapy rye berries into a strainer and tossed them around a bit to drain them. Loaded a quart jar with the soapy rye berries, put on a lid with polyfil, covered with tinfoil and put it in a pot with a couple paper towels on the bottom. I then put enough water in the pot to bring the water level up to cover 2/3rds of the jar. I brought the water to a boil and turn the heat down enough so it was a slow boil, put a lid on the pot and let it go for an hour and a half. The next day I inoculated the grain with an LC I had and that jar is growing healthy myc with no sign of contams.

Pretty cool.

The idea behind this is that the soap will kill bacteria and any endospores will be hatched into a world of hurt. They won't have enough time on this planet to know they even existed, let alone fuck up my grain. And mycelium doesn't seem to be affected by it, not at all, not even at a high concentration.

So far I am having 100% success, but that was only one jar.

So the experiment continues...

10 cups of rye
Attachment 48564
150 mills of soap. It's a lot, I know, and I don't know if this much is needed, but what I do know is that it wont hurt the myc.
Attachment 48565
Filled with water and stirred up real good
Attachment 48566
And it will sit like this till tomorrow night.
Attachment 48567

I plan on loading these jars and steaming them the same way I did with the first jar. I want to see if I can do this with good results consistantly. Some of the jars will be inoculated with spores to see if spores will germinate in the soapy rye. The rest with an LC .

The soap may also make for a nice addition to an LC . We will see.

Wish me luck.

[safTman]

Interesting experiment, good luck with your work

[Freaky]

Very interesting work Rev.!

A way for no pc'ing of grains is always a goal.

[reverend trips]

Thanks guys.

I would love to see a popcorn and wbs grower jump in on this too. Somone who could afford the risk of failure, of coarse.

[Sunstar]

neat experiment.. Keep us posted on how it goes.
like the pics to, keep up the good work

[Freaky]

Rev. I'd totally jump in on this, only I no grow anylonger

Are you going to try any other grains? Or just rye? I think popcorn won't have the success as rye or wbs simply because it does take more to hydrate and sterilize popcorn imo.

[reverend trips]

Here is the rye berries 24 hours later. They soaked in quite a bit of the water.
Attachment 48592
Dumped into a colander and drained. Bubbly eh hehe
Attachment 48593
Without rinsing them off, they go straight into the jars wet and bubbly.
Attachment 48594
Yummy
Attachment 48595
Polyfil lids put on.
Attachment 48596
Covered with tinfoil and in the stockpot with a cloth on the bottom and water brought up 2/3rds of the way up the jars.
Attachment 48597
For lack of another pot tall enough, the rest of the jars go in my pc and will also be steamed. The rocker will be left off so no pressure builds inside.
Attachment 48598
Brought to a boil, lid on the pot, reduced heat to a slow boil, and this is where they will stay for an hour and a half.
Attachment 48599

Tomorrow they get knocked up...

[reverend trips]

only I no grow anylonger

For you freaky-

[~Hippie3]

what is the active ingredient in your soap, triclosan ?
if so
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triclosan

[reverend trips]

Salicylic Acid .05%

[~Hippie3]

ah,
good thing i asked eh ?
the antibacterial soap i have here has triclosan
so this experiment will be
narrowed into only certain types of soap.
thx

[reverend trips]

I'm glad you asked too.

I would try it with another kind of soap if I had it here, but this is what I have and it worked the first time.

[reverend trips]

After reading that link you gave Hip, I think I would stay away from any soaps with triclosan as the active ingredient. It is also an antifungal. And sounds pretty harsh.

[reverend trips]

I just inoculated 6 jars with a clone LC , and 1 with a spore syringe.

Now the waiting

Popcorn has been soaking for a day and a half now, think I'll leave it till tomorrow to soak up some more water.

[justis]

very interesting!

[Nabby]

Salicylic Acid... good stuff! It's in my daily exfoliating cream that helps reduce acne symptoms.

[reverend trips]

I'm am hoping the fruits will be aesthetically pleasing.

[synth]

good idea, dude.
yeah, i can't wait to see how the fruits turn out..

[reverend trips]

Here is how the single jar from my first attempt at this looks after recovering from a good shake a couple days ago. It should be fully colonized in a couple more days.

Attachment 48840

Two of the jars from the second batch that were knocked up with an lc less then 3 full days ago are showing new growth. Thats on par with what I would see with the traditional way I would prep my rye berries.

Attachment 48841

The jar inoculated with spores has not yet shown signs of growth, but thats normal. Hoping to see germination in a couple days.

I'm new at popcorn. I soaked for 48 hours in soapy water and loaded them into a jar while they were wet. They were still rock hard after the soak, but I thought the steaming would soften them up and force the wextra water into them. That didn't work lol, so I scrapped them. Yesturday I simmered some popcorn in a pot on low heat with soapy water till they softened up a little and loaded them into a jar wet and steamed for an hour and a half. they will be inoculated sometime today.

[reverend trips]

wierd how the attachments didn't work

[~Hippie3]

they worked,
you just have the wrong numbers for those.
i'll fix.

[reverend trips]

Ahh that explains it, I had all that typed out and pics loaded, got busy with something else and hit the backspace button on my keyboard and the whole page went back for some reason. I had to retype the whole thing and must of loaded the pics from the first try.

Thanks for fixing

[fahtster]

nice experiment, rev!

should prove very interesting.

fahtster

[reverend trips]

Every single rye jar is growing healthy looking myc.

Spores are germinating on the jar inoculated with a spore syringe-

Attachment 48950

This is pretty freak'n cool

[the_chosen_one]

[Nabby]

This is really fascinating, and I'm impressed. The only problem I see is that it's not exactly an organic product at this point, which I know some people around here make a fuss about, like the Banrot issue I've read about in a few threads. Still, if I can enjoy a late night drive through from ... the world's leading fast food burger chain, it's obvious I'm not too worried about the chemicals I'm consuming, so anything that would help my mushies grow safe and healthy get's a big in my book. Props to you!

[smilinjack]

Well done. I'm going to try this WBS. I always seem to have problems with wet-spot in my WBS jars. I'll post some pics and more info in about a week.

[spacecowboy]

Originally Posted by reverend trips

Salicylic Acid...

Also known as Aspirin, naturally derived from the bark of Willow trees (now made synthetically from what I recall).

Wicked experiment.

Interesting Link

[Lazlo]

Ahhh! Good thinking Trips.

You should change the thread title to have no-pc in it or something.

[Nabby]

Very close, spacecowboy, but not entirely correct. Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid C9H8O4 also called 2-acetoxybenzioc acid. Salicylic acid C6H4(OH)CO2H also called 2-Hydroxybenzoic acid can be obtained from Willow trees, and is chemically similar to but not identical to Aspirin. Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid or ASA) can be prepared by the esterification of the phenolic hydroxyl group of salicylic acid, retaining some of its potency as an analgesic as well as reducing its acidity. That said, I'm curious to know the pH of the dish soap being used and it's effect on the grains being used, being that the active compound is an acid, and considering that some people using Calcium Hydroxide Ca(OH)2, Hydrated lime, which is a medium strength base to change the pH of a substrate.

[MurCurY]

::looks out window::

I have a willow right there!
hmm...i think a willow tea soak might be in order....

[Nabby]

Willow is a hardwood, and might be worth trying the wood chips for some wood lovers. Maybe when I get around to growing azures, I'll try some on that.

Originally Posted by MurCurY

i think a willow tea soak might be in order....

We may be able to make an organic version of this idea yet!

[MurCurY]

so...this chemical is in the bark right? or do i need a few branches?

[Nabby]

From that interesting link that cowboy posted earlier:

Native Americans and early settlers used willow bark for toothaches and applied it to the source of other pains. But they also recognized that you can actually grow a whole new tree by taking a stem and sticking it in moist soil. The hormones in willows cause rapid rooting, and they discovered these same hormones could induce rooting in other plants, too.

To harness this power, they made a tonic called “willow water” by collecting willow twigs, trimming the leaves, immersing the stems in a pail of water, and pouring the water on newly planted trees, shrubs, and bedding plants. Commercial rooting preparations contain a synthetic form of indolebutyric acid (IBA) and growing tips of willows contain high concentrations of IBA, depending on the quantity used and length of time you soak them. Any willow (Salix) tree or shrub species will work.

Make your own willow water:
Gather about two cups of pencil-thin willow branches cut to 1-3 inch lengths. Steep twigs in a half-gallon of boiling water overnight. Refrigerated liquid kept in a jar with a tight-fitting lid will remain effective up to two months. (Label jar so you won’t confuse it with your homemade moonshine.) Overnight, soak cuttings you wish to root. Or water soil into which you have planted your cuttings with the willow water. Two applications should be sufficient. Some cuttings root directly in a jar of willow water. Make a fresh batch for each use. You can also use lukewarm water and let twigs soak for 24-48 hours.

(Cannabis cloners, this might be useful to you, too!)

[reverend trips]

Everything is still looking good with the rye.

The popcorn I knocked up the night before last with an lc is showing growth. Hard to see it in the pic, but if you look close enough you can see it. Keep in mind the prep was different with the popcorn than the rye. It needed to be cooked on low heat in soapy water to hydrate. Strained them and loaded the kernels wet and saopy into the jar. After steaming there was a little extra water in the bottom. I will keep a close eye on it.

Attachment 49003


The soap really lubes up the grains too, no sticking whatsoever.

[dial8]

Wow, rev! I'm very impressed. Doesn't it seem like the best discoveries are the ones that are staring you right in the face?

Hope you keep getting consistant results!

[dr_greenthumb]

Very interesting indeed.

[Spirit Warrior]

Wow.. This idea is almost revolutionary. Think of all the people who are constantly trying to get around using a PC for whatever reason. I once thought of something like this, except my original idea was soaking grains in alcohol, don't know how well that woulda worked..

Your experiments never cease to intrigue me Rev. Badass idea man. Nice to know it can be done with popcorn too. Keep it up man and best of luck. - Snake

[Nabby]

Not that it looks like you meant it that way, but it sounds like Trips' new nickname is going to be "Reverend Badass-Idea-Man"

[teletrue]

I'm so glad to see this is working well. I saw the first post you made with the general theory and thought "WOW..what a GREAT idea. I hope it works!"

:-D Good job, and thank you!

[Lazlo]

I wish I would've known about this when I first started growing mushrooms! I must've went through a ton of wbs. Getting only about a 1/3 of it colonized properly. lol. And a 1/3 is being generous.

[bugs]

Originally Posted by Nabby

Some cuttings root directly in a jar of willow water.

When I was a kid, I remember that my mother used to dissolve an apirin in the water she used to root African violet and geranium cuttings in. Said it made them root better. I always thought it was an old wives' tale, but maybe not!

[StroFun]

My rooting hormone powder was pretty feckin cheap as it is.
Don't know how effective it is yet, we will see if i can keep my first sally cutting alive. If so i should have at least 6 plants by fall.

[Akira]

This is a great idea.

Have you tried this with WBS yet?

[reverend trips]

Have you tried this with WBS yet?

I havn't, only because I don't have any here. Only reason I had popcorn was because the missus got some at Christmas to string up with cranberries around the tree. I do plan on picking some up and trying it.

Everything is going as I'd hoped so far. I will update with pics tomorrow.

Thanks for all the props guys!

[pindulinka]

Thanks rev so much, this is an amazing thread. K++
Pressure cooker is too expensive for me at tax time
pin

[TVCasualty]

Great work, Reverend... this is what we're here for!

This is going to open up a whole new paradigm of experimentation, seems to me, like figuring out how to prep a bunch of straw with it (cold process, indoors, suitable for apartments) or 'stealthify' other methods, among other things. It got my mind working, and that's impressive this early in the morning...



One little thing off topic:
I don't mean to be rude, but I'd appreciate discussions of aspirin or other substances here to be related to preparing grain without a PC for mushroom growing, and discussions about how to clone plants be kept in "Grassroots." Unless I'm mistaken, I think that's how these threads are supposed to work, and I don't want to see this developing idea be diluted with off-topic discussions...

[spacecowboy]

Originally Posted by TVCasualty

...
One little thing off topic:
I don't mean to be rude, but I'd appreciate discussions of aspirin or other substances here to be related to preparing grain without a PC for mushroom growing, and discussions about how to clone plants be kept in "Grassroots." Unless I'm mistaken, I think that's how these threads are supposed to work, and I don't want to see this developing idea be diluted with off-topic discussions...

Your not being rude at all; I did not mean to start a tangent. Just made that post because I recall from organic chem that the base pharmacore for aspirin is salicylic acid and it was originally derived from willow bark. Figured that those hardcore naturalist who only go for certified organic might follow up on this brilliant experiment using natural salicylic acid vs dish soap. As for me, certified organic or synthetic makes no difference as long as it gets the job done. Had no idea that it would turn into a cloning/rooting issue.

[~Hippie3]

it's not really
off-topic,
it's just free association.
off-topic would be posting about anna nicole's baby, etc.
but if a thought springs from the discussion
we want to explore that too,
sometimes the tangents are more important in the end
then the original topic.
so plz do not discourage the free association of ideas
merely to preserve some arbitrary artificial format.
we can always split off posts later
once the topic plays out.