Lazlo's Poo/Coir/Coffee cased bulk substrate spawned by grains tek.

[Lazlo]

Here's the deal. This tek was designed to allow the grains to be protected from contaminates. It's for the aid in preventing contamination from molds and bacteria that can infect cased grains after dunks. It's designed to have minimal maintanance and to hold the maximum amount of moisture for heavy flushing activity. These cased subs, along with a good fruiting sub-strain, can produce 5-8 onces of dry mushrooms per 3 flushes if you follow the instructions. I'll gaurantee it! I've been using this design for years and have had great success with it. 4 flushes for getting the max out of your work. For years i've used this technique with straight coir and vermiculite mixed (40/60%) with great results. With some helpful tips from Rodger with the mixture of coir/poo/coffee with my straw subs, i've put the 2 together for one hell of a cased bulk substrate spawned with grains. The fruiting is fantastic, along with some very potent cubensis mushrooms on top of it. Enjoy!




OK. First things first. The ingrediants for the pasturization process and the tub build -

2-3qts. of colonized grains or brf (PF style cakes)

1/2 of a coir brick

2 cups of well composted manure

1/2 cup of hydrated lime (3% or less of total mag.)

1 pots worth of used coffee grounds (12 cups of brewed coffee)

meat thermometer

1 cheap, large sauce pan (lime is hard on metals, so use a pan that isn't of any value)

22-28qt. Rubbermaid storage bin w/lid and of course a stove top

[Lazlo]

First take your coir brick and add it to the sauce pan. Add some tap water to the top of the brick and fill the pan with about 2-3" of water. This will make the brick easy to split in half once it's rehydrated a bit. I'd suggest doing 2 sauce pans at once for this process if your going to use more than 1 storage tub for fruiting. After the brick is split in half, add 2 cups of well composted manure, the coffee grounds, and the 1/2 of a cup of hydrated lime to the pan. If you add the lime into the pan where water is exposed, just let it hydrate. This is great for when you go to fill the pan the rest of the way up with H20. Lime dust flying around into your eyes, mouth, and nose isn't fun. Hydrated lime will burn and tastes horrible. LOL! Now fill the pot the rest of the way up, leaving some room for stirring. About a 1/2" fo room left.

Now put the pan on stove top and turn the heat up to medium to start off. 3-4 on most stove tops, slowly stirring about every 10 minutes. Soon as the contents in the pot start to steam, break out your meat thermometer and start checking the temperature. You want to pasturize the contents, not sterilize them. So you're looking not to exceed 175 degrees. As soon as the contents in the pot reach 160 degrees, start timing for a half hour. But keep the heat comming a bit so you can reach 170-175 degrees. Check the temps every couple of minutes, while stirring the contents, keeping them from sticking and sterilizing on the bottom of the pan. It's easy as pie once you get going. Once the 30 minutes is up, simply cover and allow to cool overnight or 5-6 hours. This is what the contents will look like after the pasturization.

[Lazlo]

After the contents have cooled enough to where you can handle them, get the clean Rubbermaid tub ready to be filled with them. Now you can use the lid of the pot to strain the excess water out of the pot. You don't have to get all of the water strained out of the pot, just enough where you can mix the contents up evenly. Some manure will just sink to the bottom of the pot. Now simply grab hand fulls of the content (with your glooved hands) out of the pot and squeeze the excess H20 out of the contents. You want the contents to be at field capacity for moisture. Field capacity for moisture is when you can squeeze a wet material with your hands and only a drop or 2 of moisture comes out of it. Now simply take all the contents out of the pot and ring the water out to field capacity while piling it up into the Rubbermaid. Once the pot is empty, it's time to level the contents evenly in the tub. Get the coir contents evenly spread and LIGHTLY packed down, then add your spawn. 2qts of spawn works great, but I just prefer to use 3. It doesn't make that much of a difference really. Now break up the spawn into very fine pieces and make a nice even layer on top of the coir. Then put the lid on the Rubbermaid and allow the grains to recover from breaking them up. I let them heal back up for 2 days. Now! This is the key part of this tek, so listen. You only want to snap down 1 side of the lid. The other side that isn't snapped down will allow for some gas exchange. There's no need to open the lid. Just let it be. After the 2 days are up for allowing the grains to heal up, simply case the the grains with casing of choice. I prefer to use a semi-nutritious casing layer like, coir/vermiculite at a 40/60% ratio or even 30/70%. I'll explain why later on.

[Lazlo]

After your casing material is appled at about 3/4 of an inch to an inch in thickness; (moisture also at field capacity), gently mist the casing and the inside of the tub with a bleach solution of 1:100 ratio. This is great for knocking out any contaminate spores that have entered the tub while you were adding the top casing layer. It only takes a shot or 2 of the misting bottle. 1 shot per side of the casing layer. Bleach is a great tool to use for our hobby. More people should use it. If you are using the coir/vermiculite casing layer, then sprinkle some hydratd lime on top of the casing layer. If you put some lime in an old salt shaker or a powdered spice container, you can do this easily and evenly. Just a light dusting on top of the casing layer. You should always mark the containers with the content name. See the pic below for a simple lime container. This will raise the ph level on the top of the casing layer so Trichoderma (green mold) will not be able to grow on the top of your casing layer. Trich likes acidic (below 7 on ph scale) conditions to grow. Ah! I almost forgot. If you have purchased the Rubbermaid (Snap Topper) tubs with the locking handles, only lock 1 handle into place and place a piece of wax paper, typing paper, foil, exc., loosely over the unlocked handle to prevent contaminate spores from entering through the tiny holes that are exposed when the handle isn't locked. This will allow for gas exchange through those tiny holes from the unlocked handles. I really prefer these types of tubs versus the plain jane type of Rubbermaids. They are a bit higher in cost though.

After the moist casing layer is applied, now put the lid on like I explained and let it sit for 7 days. There's no need to open the lid and look. It's going to be fine. After the 7 days are up, take a look. You're going to be looking for some rhizos (white strands of mycelium) to be comming up through the casing layer. This activity truly depends on several factors. Temperature, moisture, casing thickness, exc. So when you start to see rhizos is up to those conditions. It will vary. See here for what to look for. http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/149465.html This also describes patching of the casing layer to obtain even pinsets. Here's some pics of the lime container, the built bulk tub, and what you're lookin to accomplish with the rhizo coverage through patching of the casing.

[Lazlo]

OK. After you have gotten the even, proper rhizo coverage thorugh patching of the casing, it's time to check the moisture content of the casing layer. Now if your like me and don't have much feeling in your hands from dirt bike, car, and all sorts of other crashes; this is a helpful tip for checking the casing layers moisture content. LOL! Simply insert a folded up piece of colored typing paper half way into the casing layer and count to 5. The paper that was inserted into the casing layer should be discolored from moisture. If it's not or barely is discolored, don't be affraid to mist the casing layer down with straight H20. Don't over do it though. You want the casing layer to be moist; not soaking wet for great fruiting results. After you've checked the moisture content and you're ready to switch to fruiting mode, put the lid of the tub on all the way. Both sides snapped down. If you have the Snap Topper type of tub, still leave one handle unsnapped. Look at the pic to see this style of tub and how the open handle should have paper covering it. The Snap Topper style of tub seals very well and requires the handle to be left open for gas exchange. Now the plain jane style of tubs on the other hand, do not seal well around the lids and even when totally snapped down, still provide SOME gas exchange. Do not sit anything on top of the tubs, like another tub for instance. If you are tight on space and would like to be able to stack them up, drill a 3/4" hole into the side of the tub (near the top) and put a pollyfill plug in it or a doubled tyvek patch over it. Glue the tyvek patch on the OUTSIDE of the tub.

[Lazlo]

Now to promote pinning! It's easy as pie. You're gunna want to leave the lids on as I suggested and have plenty of light available. Indirect sunlight is great. If no sunlight is available; like in closets and dark spots like that, add a small 12" flourescent bar to give light. I use this beast when I have to, but is overboard. A small light is all ya need. This is just available to me. In the morning when you get up, take the lid off and use it to fan 1 swipe over the tub. That's it! Just 1 fan type of swipe. Then apply the lid back on as I suggested. Then when you go to bed, do it again. Once every 12 hours. JUST 1 SWIPE OVER THE TUB WITH THE LID TO FAN!!! That's it. You don't want to dry up the casing layer and this will eliminate the need to mist too much. Misting at this point can be fatal to knotting and primordia. That's why it's important to have your casing layer at the correct moisture content prior to this point. A simple light mist of the sides of the tub and the lid (if it's dry on the bottom side) once a day in the morning is fine. Here's a bulk tub that has just switched into fruiting gear. See all the knot clusters too? This is the time it starts to get exciting. Simply continue to fan and mist in the same fasion until the knots become immature mushrooms (primordia). This will ensure that the abort ratio is minimal. You don't want to start misting more until the most of the primordia have gotten to be an inch in length. Then after that, you can start to mist both times a day after a fanning to replenish the lost moisture from fanning and from the musroom growth.

[Lazlo]

Now the fun, but not so fun part. LOL! After you've grown out your crop and harvested the mushrooms, you'll want to take a fork and scrape the casing layer with it. Cleaning all the mushroom tissue from the harvested specimens, the hyphae, and aborted mushrooms that are to small to harvest off of the casing layer. Scrape the casing down about an 1/8 of an inch. Now remove all of the scraped casing material and leftover mushroom tissue. Clean it all up well. But the point is to leave most of the casing layer on for further use. Then mist the scraped and cleaned casing layer with the 1:100 bleach solution. Just enough to moisten it. DON'T soak it. You'll see what I mean. Do not rinse the casing layer off, YET!!!

Next. Put the lid back on the tub tight. Then slowly flip the tub over on its top on to a counter top. The substrate will be completely colonized and will stay together well. Now simply unsnap the tub and remove the tub, leaving the substrate on the lid ready to be preped. Make sure you get all of the mushrooms that are growing on the sides and the minimal ones that are growing on the what was once the bottom. Just make sure that no tissue is left on the substrate at all. After you've cleaned all the tissue up off of the substrate, scrape the sub up an 1/8 of an inch on this side also. Now remove all of the scapings well. It's very easy to do with the substrate being on the lid like that. Clean your tub out well with the bleach solution. This is just for bacteria and molds that could be there from the first harvest. Better safe than sorry IMO.

[Lazlo]

Next. Slide the substrate off of the lid into the clean tub. This way the once bottom of the substrate is now the top. It will be ready to explode with fruit! Simply bleach mist the top of the substrate lightly and add some water for a dunk. Fill it about half way up. Cover it up and allow it to dunk for 1/2 an hour, no longer! This stuff really soaks up water fast. Then simply drain well in the sink. If you dump the dunk water into a collander in the sink, it will filter the large pieces that could clog up the drain. Dump the dunk water out of a corner of the tub to make it easier to aim. LOL! You probably know that huh? After you drain the tub as well as you can, cover it again and set it down. Now prop up 1 side with something so that all the excess moisture can drain to 1 side of the tub. Allow the tub to drain in this fassion for 15 minutes or so, then dump the excess moisture into the sink. Then do it again for another hour so you get it all. If you use a large pot lid to hold the substrate in the tub, this makes it easier to pour out the dunk water without worrying about the substrate falling out. LOL! Simply add a moist 1/8-3/16 of an inch of new casing material. Now put the lid on for incubation and wait for the rhizos to appear on the top of the casing. Very little patching will need to be done on this flush if you get the newly added 1/8-3/16 of an inch casing layer nice and even. Once you get the rhizo coverage even, promote pinning as previosly stated and follow the same steps as mentioned before. You usually get pinning in as little as a week. Sometimes sooner.

Then once you've gotten your 2nd flush, simply repeat the flipping and dipping cleaning process for the 3rd and 4th flushes. Enjoy!

I hope this helps people with a lot of problems with getting the maximum amount of fruit out of their bulk substrates. Especially with grains as a cased substrate. It's easy as pie once you get the process down. This process can easily be done with any bulk substrate material. Remember! If you want to grow some serious fruitage, then it's going to take some work and cleanliness. If you don't want to work, then stick to more simple techniques. This technique is a easy as it gets for bulk substrate maintanance for the continueance of flushing activity. Well good luck and I hope you enjoy the technique.

[Lazlo]

Ok. If anyone has questions or POSITIVE comments feel free to ask or let me know your thoughts on it. No comments about what is better or any of that please.

[apokalypse]

As you already know, I am at the pasteurizing step already I will be taking pictures and posting them as a follow-up to yours, as well as to help those that want some eye candy

[altered_states]

Excellent write-up, Lazlo... You managed to cover those minute, yet crucial details.
Wish I could have read this years ago...

I think I'll give it a try.

BTW... SHAMPOOOO is better!!!... No, no, no. CONDITIONER is better!!!

:-P

[Lazlo]

Thanx. I hope this will help out some of the problems i've been hearing about lately. You should like it guys. It's easy once you get the steps down. I recommend at least cleaning your substrates like this. You'll get so much more out of your work. Sadly, this particular substrain is strange and a poor fruiter IMO. I'll be using another strain with this techinique that I know will pump out some fruitage. I'll show ya these substrates capabilities. They work great with just plain coir and vermiculite to. You don't even have to sterilize or pasturize those additives. Just hydrate with a pinch of lime and build them at field capacity.

[cheeseball]

Great write up! I was needing something like this, as I want my friends and I to have a great 4th of July! So I'm taking the initiative to make sure we can have fun. I like your style lazlo!

[altered_states]

Lazlo, if I remember correctly, you don't use straw at all during the summer months.

I know that you like lots of lime; I do too...

But it still doesn't do the trick during summer months?

I have a 3-pack of coir bricks just waiting to be used...
It's actually in the same place as the verm and lime...

Looks like I need to start drinking coffee...

Thanks again for the excellent write-up!

Peace,
AS

[Lazlo]

Hell no! If so. I'd suggest using laundry baskets or something like that. Not tubs of straw. Well, not at least where I live anyways. If you watch the news when the warmer seasons begin, they'll have the report of allergies in your area. Mold included in the report. They'll let ya know when mold allergies are bad, thus not a good time for straw substrates. LOL

Lazlo, great write up!

[sandman]

LBs work in summer

[Lazlo]

Originally Posted by sandman420

LBs work in summer

Yeah! That's what I was talking about. They get lots of fresh air. But that's just my opinion! I think it's a pain in the ass to keep clean in warmer and rainy months when using straw in tubs. Especially where I live, Trich city.

[Lazlo]

Well anyways! Here's the 3rd flush from the snap topper tub. This is starting to look better. I hope the 4th will provide as much if not more. That N-Nh3 really f'd everything up. Geeze! As you can see; as the element wears down the substrate is producing better. Still weak IMO.

I forgot to post some tips also for these smaller types of fruiting chambers. I'll get right on it soon.

[Hippie3]

archive material

very nice, lazlo
thx for sharing and caring

[Lazlo]

Thanx guys. I hope it helps. Thanx for the Chives too Hip!

OK. Here's some tips on the the tub growing techique that will save you a lot of hassels and failures. These apply to any substrates or teks you might be using for tubs.

1. If you apply some duct tape to the bottom of the tub to the top of the substrate line, this will help any mushrooms that grow from the sides of the substrate grow up to seek light. If you don't do this, some of the fruits will grow down or invitro along the side of the tub. This makes it easy to harvest the mushrooms that grow in this fassion. These fruits are the first to pop up, so you'll want to be able to harvest them so the casing layer can fruit and you will not have fruits stuck on the sides of your substrate, possibly rotting and causing bacterial problems on your substrate.

If you do like WaylitJim does and apply a nice and neat line of tape around the tub so you can neatly spray paint from the tape line down with black paint. Rough up the outside of the plastic bin with 220 grit sand paper first so the paint sticks well. Paint it dark. This will prevent most pinning from the the sides of the substrate. I don't mind side pinning myself. But that's me. Some might want to take Jims route, which is great also. It's up to you what you want. You might want to see what type of paint he uses for durability. But if you paint the tub, leave a spot clear on the bottom of the tub so you can check for moisture content. That's described below.

[Lazlo]

Now in the pic above, do you see the heavy moisture on the sides of the tub in the inside? That's too heavy of a moisture content. Stop all misting after fanning. You want to try to maintain a light dew like moisture on the sides and on the lid. This type of heavy moisture will get down in the bottom of your tub from the sides, possibly causing standing water in the bottom of your tub that could cause contaminates on the bottom of your substrate. You can look at the bottom of the tub to find out the deal. This is where the coir mixture really helps out for grains. If it gets heavy like this, simply take a brand new sponge (just to be used for this purpose) and go around the sides of the tub about an inch above the casing layer. Don't touch the casing layer. You want to try to maintain an even balance of moisture throughout the process until harvest. The amount of this moisture on the inside of the tub depends on several factors and conditions of your grow area. You'll have to get a knack for it through time and experience. It's not as hard to do as it might sound to some. Here's a pick of the lid with heavy moisture on it. These types of droplets will fall from the lid really messing up the casings layer ability to fruit. If you see these, simply use your sponge again and soak them up. If there's heavy moisture showing on the sides of the tub, don't mist the bottom of the lid with a dew like misting. If the sides look like they're at the proper dew like look for moisture, then apply a light mist to the lid bottom after soaking up the droplets. It's all about moisture ballance. If you see dry spots on the sides or lid of the tub, lightly mist the dry spots. See what I mean? Keeping the moisture properly ballanced in the tub will make for a smooth fruiting from the casing layer. Don't be affraid to use the colored typing paper tip I gave ya either. If the casing layer is dry, mist it with a couple of shots. Then check the moisture in a few hours to see if it's right. If not, mist it again. But don't over do it.

[Lazlo]

I suppose this should've been first on the tips list! LOL! Here's how much lime to add to the casing layer after you've built the tub. Just lightly dust it. This is a bit much, but I ran out of mateial to do it with. LOL! It'll be ok by the time rhizos break through to the top of the casing layer. Then give the tub 2 light bleach mists. This will help to hydrate the lime into the top of the casing layer. Then put the lid on like I mentioned and let it be.

Now about the heavy moisture and cleaning off the fruits well after harvest. See the pic of the trichoderma eating the hell out of the substrate? This is the one that I forgot about for 2 weeks and see the mold eating the mushroom tissue. I was damn fortunate to score 412 grams from it before all hell broke loose. LOL! This is a fine example of how trich just loves mushroom tissue and heavy moisture. You've gotta keep the moisture and fanning right in bulk tubs for healthy growth. Bacteria and molds just love a saturated substrate and a bulk growing tub with standing water in the bottom of it. That's why I suggest flipping the tub for getting all the tissue that's all over the substrate after harvest. So the substrate can be cleaned on the lid making the substrate very accessable. You can get all of the tissue off very easy like this, keeping a healthy substrate for further flushes.

[apokalypse]

Alright, got my casing done nicely. Instead of using a salt shaker to spread lime, I got a piece of tinfoil, made a scoop out of it and poked 16 little holes in the bottom. Shook this over the casing, and evenly distributed some lime. It looks pretty good, I will post some pictures tomorrow. Also, Lazlo, your private message folder is broke lol, its full.

[Lazlo]

Oh! It's unclogged!

[apokalypse]

Arlight, here are my pics. All the stuff on the sides has since been wiped away.