Post Flush Casing Care Q's [merged]

[MNL]

I have a straw 'box' (1 footx1foot rubbermaid), cased in .5 inch of vermiculite. It gave a dissapointing first flush. I think I may have caused it to abort by misting.

I didnt do anything after the first flush (spray, recase, fork, etc).It has a brilliant pinset (some old, some new), and several tiny shrooms that are neither growing nor aborting.

Is this just...done? The first flush was on the periphery of the box, but the 'new' pins are in the center area. Is it telling me it needs something?

Thanks,

MNL

[python]

got some pictures?

[destroy_erase_improve]

how long has it been since the appearance of pins? pictures would help us out also, just like pyth said.

Yea, definitely need pics.

[sinthetic]

it sounds like you may not have fanned enough, some pics would definatly help

[MNL]

I will try to get some pics later, but I think the key is patience. I'm pretty sure that I fanned enough.

MycotopiaNL

[MNL]

The pins are now growing. Everything seems to be picking up again. Patience is key. I didnt do anything, just let it sit.

MycotopiaNL

[~Hippie3]

may have caused it to abort by misting

that's plausible, misting during early pinset can do it.

The first flush was on the periphery of the box, but the 'new' pins are in the center area. Is it telling me it needs something?

not really,
that's what you want, in the casing itself.

[MNL]

When I said I did nothing, I should correct and say I did nothing but fan. I didnt have confidence in the humidification ability of grow rocks at first, but now I see no difference between this and perlite.

It seems that this flush is going to be more impresive than the last. The cakes I used to inoculate the straw had pinned invitro. Is it possible that this caused a small first flush, and I am now going to get a larger 'main' flush?

I would post pics, but its not worth it at this point. Soon.

[sinthetic]

in a small enough container, the straw itself will keep the humidity at a sufficient level.

[MNL]

Pictures of the second flush:

[MNL]

Pictures here:

(ignore the discription, this is straw cased with verm, not BRF as indicated by the strip on the bottom of the pictures. I was too lazy to photoshop it out.)

[~Hippie3]

once you pick those
i'd knock off all that looose verm
dunk it
and try a verm/coir mixture for the new casing
not quite so thick either
1/4 inch or a little more is good

[felixdgr81]

Ok, I have recently switched up to rye, but I had some BRF jars I wanted to use up. I thought of many ways to case (peat, coir, etc) but after an argument with a fellow mycotopiate over streight verm, I thought I would do one up to settle the argument, and furthermore, hippie said good results can be achieved with verm only casings.

That said, the tray I am using is a shrimp party platter as purchased from food lion. After slight modification, I found that it would fit 4 1/2 pint BRF cakes and about 1 inch of verm. I did not layer the bottom of the casing due to depth constraints. The lid of the container snaps down onto the base making a great seal. This is simmilar to the clear domed containter Troutlips used some time back.

My goal with this project is to get this bad boy to flush a full 4 times. I have never gotten a verm only casing to do this.

I am also curious as to how I can encourage a more even pinset with casings of this type. I typicly get "bunches" of pins as opposed to the total coverage pinsets as seen in the archive photos. Any assistance is appreciated.

Please keep your fingers crossed for me on this one!

[kaysuds]

Good luck. I am on a fourth flush on straight verm. My key was to water the casing when it looked to dry out and pull away from the sides. I used finch food instead of BRF

The flushes are not huge, but, all in all it has worked out well.

[Lazlo]

Good luck brother!

[headoutdaplane]

I am also trying a straight verm casing, but it seem like it is taking quite a while and still no pins, how long did it take to get pins?

Straight verm definitely works, although the fruit will not be as meaty as fruit grown on other casing materials. Good luck, felix. I'm sure you will enjoy the fruits of your labor!

[smegma]

Originally Posted by felixdgr81

Ok, I have recently switched up to rye, but I had some BRF jars I wanted to use up. I thought of many ways to case (peat, coir, etc) but after an argument with a fellow mycotopiate over streight verm, I thought I would do one up to settle the argument, and furthermore, hippie said good results can be achieved with verm only casings.

That said, the tray I am using is a shrimp party platter as purchased from food lion. After slight modification, I found that it would fit 4 1/2 pint BRF cakes and about 1 inch of verm. I did not layer the bottom of the casing due to depth constraints. The lid of the container snaps down onto the base making a great seal. This is simmilar to the clear domed containter Troutlips used some time back.

My goal with this project is to get this bad boy to flush a full 4 times. I have never gotten a verm only casing to do this.

I am also curious as to how I can encourage a more even pinset with casings of this type. I typicly get "bunches" of pins as opposed to the total coverage pinsets as seen in the archive photos. Any assistance is appreciated.

Please keep your fingers crossed for me on this one!

Thge most even pinset I have ever witnessed was on a UNCASED tray of WBS/COIR/CASTINGS. Mixed VERY well. IT was like a FREAKING carpet.

1. Because you do not need to get the casing layer even.
2. slight variations, chunks, etc. helped too.

I think it may be wise to rinse, dunk THEN case after that first beautiful flush.

[jakked]

I've started using a lot thinner casing: 7 mm (.25 in) and that seems to be working. Also taking care not to compact the casing at all. Make it nice and fluffy with lots of little air pockets. Thinner casing will fruit faster as well.

[Ali]

I was thinking this may help some people who use trays with casings.

This was spacifically done with large trays, cement mixing trays 18"x24"x6".

The spawn was millet/milo, sub was coir/castings, casing layer was peat/verm/lime.

So after a fat flush here is what my imginary friend Billy does:

1. Carefully harvest the fruits, the less 'divoting' the better. Leaving behind as much casing material in the divot as possible.
2. (OPTIONAL) Billy takes a board the size of the tray and flips the whole thing over. This allows him to check for contams and harvest rogue fruits that could rot in the future. The then cleans the tray and flips it back. Spring clamps will make this less messy by holding the board tightly on.
3. Mix 1 gallon water: 1 tablespoon Bleach: 1/3 cu. Hydrated Lime (he does not worry about Mg and sees no I'll effects of Mg.)
4. Carefully pour liquid down the edge until the sub starts to float.
5. Wait 24 hours. 12 or 48 seems to work too.
6. Carefully pour off 'all' remaining water. a few drops left are OK, but any poled water will make bacterial messy Billy finds that when the sub just starts to float, after the soak little water will be left to pour off.
7. Patch divots and stuff edges with new peat/verm casing mix.
8. Spray water the casing layer with bleach/water/(optional lime) until it is as wet as when originally applied.
9. 'Fluff' or aeroate the casing layer and even it up till it looks new.
10. Wait for a FAT ASS second flush.

He has done this mid flush when things looked dry and BAM... explosive growth. Just do not flood the caing layer ever. Spray it.

If you do this well, and RH stays above 85%, you should never have to water/mist/spray/whatever during a flush.

It should look like the first picture when finished.
The second flush is the second pic.
Billy thinks there is a first flush picture about...



Any suggestions to improve this process?

[Ali]

I can't find the edit button so here is the close up of the post flush fixed casing.

Maybe this thread should be renamed "Flooding"?

[forseti]

Nice, I have done similar in the past and it works great.

A slight variation for those who live in areas with a very high trich spore load is to allow water to run from the sink for half an hour with the substrate floating and constant water flow. This seems to rinse off the contaminants between flushes.
RR

[mycolord]

I have a question. In this thread it says to never soak the casing layer ever. But for laundry baskets it is said to be ok to mist the hell out of the casing layer, and visions even poured water on it and just fluffed it back up. Any reasons against this?

[Ali]

Originally Posted by mycolord

I have a question. In this thread it says to never soak the casing layer ever. But for laundry baskets it is said to be ok to mist the hell out of the casing layer, and visions even poured water on it and just fluffed it back up. Any reasons against this?

*rant: Damn not being able to edit *end rant

Billy shoud not have been that drastic in the statement.

Billy DOES NOT let the thin casing layer colonize AT ALL for the first flush, instead he waits for heavy knotting then applies the WET casing layer. So there is nothing to hold it in place. Because he generally uses large verm in the peat/verm layer, Billy thinks it will all float and get poured down the drain.

Also, pouring water on the peat/verm mix seems to seperate the two or, rinse the peat off the verm if you will.

Weiging down a chunk of myc this size and distributing the weight evenly has posed it's own challenges to Billy.

He likes to let it 'wick' up into the sub from below, this may only work this well with coir/casting substrate. It WILL suck up the water l;ike a sponge. Sometimes more than a half gallon.

He will expirement if he can find a way to weigh it down safely.

He is also going to try a "Pre Casing Flood" and see if water can be added at that point.

On an aside:

Step 1.1 should say spray 'divots' with bleach/water/lime mixture to "clean and protect wound.

Step 1.5 should say "fill in divots" with sterilized csing mix to keep anything from landing on exposed substrate. Or getting pushed into it on the flip.

My method is to wash the entire block under the faucet to remove all loose casing and contaminants that have fallen during the flush.

Place the substrate into a container filled with cold water, and weight it down. Shown below is 4 shot glasses placed on the block. Note bouancy of the substrate as it still floats with the weight of 4 shot glasses.

Put the lid on the container. This will push the shot glasses down, thus submerging the substrate under water. After 24 hours, remove and rinse well again under the faucet. Recase and place in fruiting conditions.
RR

[Ali]

Roger, he will try this.

Billy just hates to flush that casing material away as verm is not cheap in his area but anything for science.

His trays will need a LOT of those shot glasses so we bettr get to drinking.

Do you think that whit plastic grid they put over floro lights, if stacked a couple thick would damage the myc if used in the same fashion as the shot glasses?

It will work fine. Just anything to hold the block under water. You could wad up a few balls of aluminum foil as well. Hell, do what stamets does and put a brick on it.
RR

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by mycolord

I have a question. In this thread it says to never soak the casing layer ever. But for laundry baskets it is said to be ok to mist the hell out of the casing layer, and visions even poured water on it and just fluffed it back up. Any reasons against this?

Because a basket and a bin casing are two entirely different beasts. Casings are usually thinner and in more controlled environments where the humidity is generally higher. This allows for less evaporation and less of a chance for drainage. With baskets, the excess water is needed to penetrate into the core of the basket and to allow for the surface to maintan a higher water level to compensate for the evaporation. Baskets are all around less suseptible (sp?) to over watering.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by highflyer

Because a basket and a bin casing are two entirely different beasts. Casings are usually thinner and in more controlled environments where the humidity is generally higher. This allows for less evaporation and less of a chance for drainage. With baskets, the excess water is needed to penetrate into the core of the basket and to allow for the surface to maintan a higher water level to compensate for the evaporation. Baskets are all around less suseptible (sp?) to over watering.

I agree with all of that and alwyas enjoy your posts HF.

Billy likes trays instead of the classic bins becaues the height of the mush can be more controlled. Deep tubs (unless other arrange ments have been made) stagnate fairly easily.

It is Billys experience that the higher the walls of a bin, the longer the mush will stretch trying to get to moving/fresher air. He likes to keep them around 4" tall with fat ass caps.

There really isn't "watering" proper with these cases trays, unless something f's up, then watering.

My newbie buddy likes Hongus tek and other straight verm casing. The problem is that he can't seem to come to a conclusion about flushes. After scouring the archives, I've seen everything from "just keep picking 'em", to "mist w/200:1 bleach:water, scrape top verm off, dunk the whole mass..."

The thing is, this guy is twisting out boomers that come out from almost halfway down in the tray (it was growing up the side). Can he be sure he's getting all that extra fruit-matter that's down under? How can he be sure he's picked it clean, when he can't see under the casing? He picked what seemed like a full across-the-tray flush, then got just two monsters and two small ones -- Is it a new flush or a continuation of the 1st? How can he tell?

And does any of this matter? My pal likes to touch as little as possible.

[LethalTr1p]

I broke up some colonized 'bricks' (by accident) from a few trays i was trying to scratch or remove the casing layer from during a between flush dunk. So here are the questions:

If i place them back in the trays, will they grow back together? Will i need to put them back into veg growth (incubate), or should i let them go in the fruiting chamber?

Would it be better to just completely break them up and let them recolonize and recase?

Also, after removing the casing layer (in a successful attempt) would you reincubate when you added the new one on? or will the myc still grow up and threw it in fruiting temps?

Or are these now considered next to trash. maybe just spawn material since they've only gone threw a beginners (so small) flush or two.

The reason all this happened is i let the humidity fall too far and the casing layer dried out to the point that I couldn't really seperate it easily. Next time it shouldn't be and issue, but i noticed that even on the fairly moist ones, the myc was pretty strong and didn't want to let the layer seperate. Is something wrong with that? or is needing a knife for the job a common occurance.

[Lazlo]

Simply put the puzzle pieces back together and incubate it for 24 hours. Allow the substrate to whiten back up some before recasing it. It may take 2 days. It will not grow back together right away. But by time the new flush is over, it will have healed back together SOME. It really depends on the substrate material being used and it's health. All in all, simply be careful the next dunk not to disturb the substrate much.

What are you using for a tray or tub?

[LethalTr1p]

I have some metal baking pans i've been using. its rusted to hell though, so i bought some new ones that look like they'll last. I also have a lot of those little glad/rubbermaid min tubs filled. they worked well for the first flush, but messing around with them afterwards is a hassle. I also have some old plastic ice cream tubs. Pretty much anything that works i collect, keep, and use.

as for substrate. right now its just rye berries cased with coir/verm. I have a few composted manure tubs going right now, but i'l still awaiting the first flush. they look a lot stronger though so i doubt i'll have the same issue with that. Its not even cased anyhow.

[Lazlo]

Where I was heading with the question was; you can take an empty container that's identical to the one containing the substrate to be used for the dunk and put it on top. Put a small amount of weight in the empty one that's on top to keep the substrate submerged. Then after the dunk is over, you can use the empty container to drain the dunk water out of the substrate container. You can hold the empty tight to the substrate evenly so it doesn't break apart while draining. See what I mean?

[Lazlo]

Like this. Then after the dunk time is up, remove the weight and keep the empty tub held in while draining the dunk water...

[Pedestrian]

Is that all you can curl Laz?

[LethalTr1p]

thanx for the tip laz. dont know how i didn't figure that out in the first place. mine are quite smaller than that, but the idea will work fine. do you dunk yours with the casing in tact? or do you do like i've read rodger does, and re case after each flush and dunk.

[Lazlo]

Yes. Definately strip off the casing prior to dunking and recase for the next flush.

[~Hippie3]

take a flat plate/platter
lay it across casing
hold firmly in place
and flip casing over and out onto the tray
to inspect underside for buried treasures.

verm doesn't colonize much so usually just misting
is all that's needed for additional 'flushes'

[~Hippie3]

see http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthread.php?t=4513 (Post Flush Casing Care Q's [merged])