Duke's Rice Technique vs. PF

kam · 05-02-05, 19:54

I just inoculated two jars with PF classic spores. One was a pint (not wide-mouth), prepared as per DukeX's Long Grain Rice Tutorial, except with short grain brown rice, a tsp. of ground flaxseed and 1/2 tsp. of nutritional yeast. The other jar was a half-pint, prepared like a normal PF jar and containing the same kind of rice, only ground.

My only worries are that:
1. The moisture content of the pint jar is screwed. It just looks wet, but I guess its no different from the pics in the tutorial.
2. The rice in the PF jar wasn't ground enough to work properly. It still had some small chunks in it because I only used a blender.
I doubt either of these concerns will cause much of a problem.

I will update with progress reports on both of these jars. I am not very experienced, but this will be an invitro grow, so I doubt I can screw up much. I really like the whole grain rice technique, because it's just so easy to prepare the jars. Hopefully this will convince me that it's the way to go.

Take a look at the pics, but I warn you, the camera is nothing special.

Peace.

destroy_erase_improve · 05-02-05, 20:39

its gonna be fun to watch the comparison, although some feel that widemouth jars colonize faster than the taller ones.

dukex · 05-03-05, 09:10

Its hard to tell from the pics but the rice doesnt look that wet to me. I think the colonization will be comparable. I have some going also I will probably start another thread keep a lookout for it.

Looking forward to your updates

Peace...

Lazlo · 05-03-05, 13:17

Ding, Ding!

kam · 05-08-05, 12:38

Well, it's been over a week, and I still see no signs of growth... About 1 cc of solution was used on each jar. I'm not giving up hope yet, especially because it's pretty hard to see what's going on in the rice jar. Spores may not have made it to the side, either, so it could be growing in the middle.

Hopefully something promising will show up.

Hippie3 · 05-08-05, 13:04

anyone ever tried
just soaking rice, no heat ?

Alkady Mycomania · 05-08-05, 15:39

Soaking rice to get the right moisture content, Hippie? You can soak brown rice overnight, the next day it will cook MUCH faster (about the same time as white rice). I do this a lot, makes timing a meal with brown rice a lot easier. It doesn't get all fluffy from the soaking as it does from the cooking, but I've never tried it longer than that. It doesn't absorb all the water needed either. Done 6-18 hour soaks.

kam · 05-11-05, 18:57

Good news! I can see growth in both of the jars now. The PF jar has one small spot, about the size of a pencil eraser, in one of the inoculation sites. In the whole rice jar, there are a number of spots of visible mycelium. The one spot that is actually on the edge the jar has some ropy growth that I can see.

I wonder if this spore syringe may have been weak, since the PF jar only has mycelium in one of the sites. Hopefully, it will be able to fully colonize.

As for the whole grain rice jar, it looks like the moisture content is correct after all; the mycelium is taking to it very well. I think this will probably colonize faster, because of the better air exchange through the polyfill and the better start it has already. But we'll see.

Hippie3 · 05-12-05, 10:23

xcellent start,
good luck

kam · 05-14-05, 16:36

Some things have come up with this project. I put a new light bulb in my incubation chamber, and it ended up raising the heat to 95-100 deg. F for maybe 24 hours. I feel this may have killed the whole rice jar, which was closest to this light. The top of the rice, where mycelium can be seen, became darker like it dried out. When I sniff the filter, it smells slightly burnt, possibly sour. The mycelium doesn't seem to be growing any more either, and this was 4-5 days ago. I'm not going to throw it out yet, but I'm afraid it's dead.

As for the PF jar, growth has started in another spot and is a little bigger than a dime there. It seems healthy.

I may inoculate another one of the whole rice jars I made, because I really want this technique to work for me!

Peace.

kam · 05-14-05, 17:54

Just in case, I inoc'd another pint jar that had been prepared with the first one. This is 12 days after the first was started. Now we have two to compare.

kam · 05-16-05, 17:36

Wow, the PF jar is really taking off! There is growth in all four inoc. points. They are growing very rapidly, very rhizomorphic. So far, the Classic strain is outperforming the B+ I grew by a long shot. I am also glad to hear these pin well invitro, because my B+ had a hard time.

Looks like growth might have picked up again in whole rice jar A, but it's hard to tell. Very possibly may have a contam there (I can't tell if it's green or shadow).

Whole rice jar B is not showing any growth yet, but it's only two days after inoculation.

Also, the light bulb has been replaced with one of proper wattage and they're recieving it 24/7.

kam · 05-23-05, 19:07

So it's been a week, time for an update.

Things are looking great in all of the jars. The PF jar has exploded in rhizomorphic growth and is almost completely colonized by the healthiest mycelium I've ever seen. The growth in whole rice jar A is apparent again, with rhizomorphs visible. The mycelium is steadily taking over the dried out area (caused by my hot light) and can also be seen far down the edge of the jar, so it is penetrating the rice mass. Growth in whole rice jar B has appeared and looks very healthy.

So, many of my worries are gone and I am looking forward to some pins. I really must say that the Classic strain is outperforming B+ by quite a lot.

Peace.

kam · 05-30-05, 14:16

I checked the jars yesterday and, lo-and-behold, there are pins! This is in the PF half-pint. About 10-15 small pins are developing, and I can see the darker color of the caps on many. I'm very excited for this jar, and I have plans to clone the biggest fruit into honey water and inocculate the rest of my PF jars with that.

As for the whole rice jars, they're still moving but slowly. Jar A is probably 50% colonized and jar B 30%. I think these are suffering because the substrate is too sticky and the mycelium has trouble penetrating it.

When I harvest the first flush off of the PF jar, I'll include some pics.

shedthemonkey · 05-30-05, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kam

So it's been a week, time for an update.

Things are looking great in all of the jars. The PF jar has exploded in rhizomorphic growth and is almost completely colonized by the healthiest mycelium I've ever seen. The growth in whole rice jar A is apparent again, with rhizomorphs visible. The mycelium is steadily taking over the dried out area (caused by my hot light) and can also be seen far down the edge of the jar, so it is penetrating the rice mass. Growth in whole rice jar B has appeared and looks very healthy.

So, many of my worries are gone and I am looking forward to some pins. I really must say that the Classic strain is outperforming B+ by quite a lot.

Peace.

Life finds a way. The mycelia really likes to grow if you give it decent conditions. Congrats on success so far. I am a fan of the little cakes (even with a bit chunky flour they do great).

Looking forward to pix.

Hippie3 · 05-31-05, 06:35

pix would be great!
bummer about yer whole rice jars tho',
wonder if a little gypsum/powdered chalk might help that stickiness ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kam

I checked the jars yesterday and, lo-and-behold, there are pins! This is in the PF half-pint. About 10-15 small pins are developing, and I can see the darker color of the caps on many. I'm very excited for this jar, and I have plans to clone the biggest fruit into honey water and inocculate the rest of my PF jars with that.

As for the whole rice jars, they're still moving but slowly. Jar A is probably 50% colonized and jar B 30%. I think these are suffering because the substrate is too sticky and the mycelium has trouble penetrating it.

When I harvest the first flush off of the PF jar, I'll include some pics.

Lazlo · 05-31-05, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kam

I checked the jars yesterday and, lo-and-behold, there are pins! This is in the PF half-pint. About 10-15 small pins are developing, and I can see the darker color of the caps on many. I'm very excited for this jar, and I have plans to clone the biggest fruit into honey water and inocculate the rest of my PF jars with that.

As for the whole rice jars, they're still moving but slowly. Jar A is probably 50% colonized and jar B 30%. I think these are suffering because the substrate is too sticky and the mycelium has trouble penetrating it.

When I harvest the first flush off of the PF jar, I'll include some pics.

I'm just guessing, but you cooked the whole grain rice instead of soaking it? I'd bet bacteria has got those whole grain jars from the starches brought out of the cooking process. Ya might wanna try to soak the whole grains instead. Just my .02

Neat thread by the way!

Hippie3 · 05-31-05, 08:08

ya gotta cook rice...

kam · 05-31-05, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazlo

Neat thread by the way!

Thanks!

As for the whole water content issue, I think the only way to really be sure the rice doesn't have too much water is to cook the rice in water before loading the jars. I think I read someone (Duke?) say that this doesn't give the rice as much water as it can take. However, with the differences between different types and crops of rice, using a predetermined water:rice ratio is bound to fail sometimes. Oh well. I still have hope for these jars. The mycelium is growing although there is even a tiny bit of standing water. I bet they will just take a long-ass time to colonize.

+++

I've included some pics of morels found by a friend, my stealth setup, as well as the PF jar (at least 15-25 pins now) and the whole rice jars. The last pic is of some dandelion beer I'm fermenting right now.

Lazlo · 05-31-05, 19:52

Ooooooh. I see what you're saying. Dukes tek is sorta like Hip's rye tek. Add the dry grains along with a measured amount of water to the jars and then pc?

Lazlo · 05-31-05, 22:20

Why not try to cook the rice as suggested and then rinse and drain well. Then after a the grain has drained, load into jars and pc for 60 minutes @ 15psi for sterilization? I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar the results would be great!

bipolar · 05-31-05, 23:50

I tried Duke's method and my water content didn't do right. Then I tried cooking the rice in my rice cooker and when cool scooped all rice into a bowl after first measuring how many pints of rice I had total. Then I added a tablespoon of coir,and 1 teaspoon of flax seed per each 1/2 pint and mixed well. Pc'ed for 60 mins. Innoculated on 5/26 with a live myc syringe of PF Classic. The pics tell the rest. Will keep ya updated.

kam · 06-01-05, 16:52

Cool, bipolar. How will you fruit them? I was originally intending to fruit mine invitro... I think I'll make a jar using the pre-cook method sometime soon.

Hippie3 · 06-01-05, 18:33

nice, bipolar.

9er the guy who pioneered the first whole rice tek i ever saw,
recommended cooking the rice as follows-

Quote:

Cook the rice according to the instructions on the package except for reducing the water to 1 1/2 cup water to 1 cup grain and leaving out the margarine/salt. Try a bite to see if it's fully cooked and tender. Then fluff and stir the grain, and spoon it into jars until full. Tap the jars to work the grain down. Don't over compact the jars. If it makes a mush in the bottom with hardly any air spaces, you should empty it out and re-fluff with a fork

Hippie3 · 06-01-05, 18:34

btw
nice stealth setup there,
kam.

archive material

vrooota · 06-01-05, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazlo

Why not try to cook the rice as suggested and then rinse and drain well. Then after a the grain has drained, load into jars and pc for 60 minutes @ 15psi for sterilization? I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar the results would be great!

I think it works better this way, you just can't cook it until its too dry, otherwise it won't colo as well. IME whole rice cakes don't hold enough moisture by themselves to fruit invitro or even in a terrarium,

bipolar · 06-01-05, 22:54

I was planning on invitro for these babys. I agree with hip, that's a nice stealth setup ya got there.

Lazlo · 06-01-05, 23:59

Hey Kam. What's the 411 on the dandelion beer? Is it made from the weed? Nice stealthy setup you've got there!

kam · 06-02-05, 14:41

Thanks for all the praise for my little drawer, everybody....

I've removed the verm layer in my jar to give the pins fresh air and room. They are quickly developing into mushrooms, and I'm very excited.

Dandelion beer can be made like any other herb beer: You boil the assorted herbs then add sugar and ferment the mixture. Mine ended up not fermenting, I think because the brewer's yeast I used must have been deactivated. I'll be adding different yeast to it soon. This site turned me on to it: Nettle, Dandelion and Burdock Beer.

The harvest of the 'shrooms should be in a few days, so until then,
Namaste

dukex · 06-07-05, 20:03

Kam if you are getting wet results try a few jars with slighlty less water in increments till you nail it that is what I did. I wanted to push the water to the maximum with my tech maybe with the variations of rice this needs to be tweaked accordingly.

I have some PR going this method now and when I get some time I will post some pics for comparison.

Peace...

Peace...

bipolar · 06-07-05, 20:20

So Duke, what kind of rice are you using?

dukex · 06-09-05, 10:31

I think its Lunberg Farms organic long grain brown rice, they had it on sale a few weeks ago at Krogers and it turned out to about $1 for a 2 lb bag.

Peace...

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05-02-05, 20:39	#2 (permalink)
destroy_erase_improve Mycotopiate Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,173	its gonna be fun to watch the comparison, although some feel that widemouth jars colonize faster than the taller ones. __________________ Destroy Erase Improve

05-03-05, 09:10	#3 (permalink)
dukex Mycotopiate Join Date: May 1972 Posts: 587	Its hard to tell from the pics but the rice doesnt look that wet to me. I think the colonization will be comparable. I have some going also I will probably start another thread keep a lookout for it. Looking forward to your updates Peace... __________________ "It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum and I'm all out of gum."

05-03-05, 13:17	#4 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,057	Ding, Ding! __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-08-05, 13:04	#6 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,323	anyone ever tried just soaking rice, no heat ? __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

05-08-05, 12:38	#5 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Well, it's been over a week, and I still see no signs of growth... About 1 cc of solution was used on each jar. I'm not giving up hope yet, especially because it's pretty hard to see what's going on in the rice jar. Spores may not have made it to the side, either, so it could be growing in the middle. Hopefully something promising will show up.

05-08-05, 15:39	#7 (permalink)
Alkady Mycomania Mycophiliac Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 47	Soaking rice to get the right moisture content, Hippie? You can soak brown rice overnight, the next day it will cook MUCH faster (about the same time as white rice). I do this a lot, makes timing a meal with brown rice a lot easier. It doesn't get all fluffy from the soaking as it does from the cooking, but I've never tried it longer than that. It doesn't absorb all the water needed either. Done 6-18 hour soaks.

05-11-05, 18:57	#8 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Good news! I can see growth in both of the jars now. The PF jar has one small spot, about the size of a pencil eraser, in one of the inoculation sites. In the whole rice jar, there are a number of spots of visible mycelium. The one spot that is actually on the edge the jar has some ropy growth that I can see. I wonder if this spore syringe may have been weak, since the PF jar only has mycelium in one of the sites. Hopefully, it will be able to fully colonize. As for the whole grain rice jar, it looks like the moisture content is correct after all; the mycelium is taking to it very well. I think this will probably colonize faster, because of the better air exchange through the polyfill and the better start it has already. But we'll see.

05-12-05, 10:23	#9 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,323	xcellent start, good luck __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

05-14-05, 16:36	#10 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Some things have come up with this project. I put a new light bulb in my incubation chamber, and it ended up raising the heat to 95-100 deg. F for maybe 24 hours. I feel this may have killed the whole rice jar, which was closest to this light. The top of the rice, where mycelium can be seen, became darker like it dried out. When I sniff the filter, it smells slightly burnt, possibly sour. The mycelium doesn't seem to be growing any more either, and this was 4-5 days ago. I'm not going to throw it out yet, but I'm afraid it's dead. As for the PF jar, growth has started in another spot and is a little bigger than a dime there. It seems healthy. I may inoculate another one of the whole rice jars I made, because I really want this technique to work for me! Peace.

05-14-05, 17:54	#11 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Just in case, I inoc'd another pint jar that had been prepared with the first one. This is 12 days after the first was started. Now we have two to compare.

05-16-05, 17:36	#12 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Wow, the PF jar is really taking off! There is growth in all four inoc. points. They are growing very rapidly, very rhizomorphic. So far, the Classic strain is outperforming the B+ I grew by a long shot. I am also glad to hear these pin well invitro, because my B+ had a hard time. Looks like growth might have picked up again in whole rice jar A, but it's hard to tell. Very possibly may have a contam there (I can't tell if it's green or shadow). Whole rice jar B is not showing any growth yet, but it's only two days after inoculation. Also, the light bulb has been replaced with one of proper wattage and they're recieving it 24/7.

05-23-05, 19:07	#13 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	So it's been a week, time for an update. Things are looking great in all of the jars. The PF jar has exploded in rhizomorphic growth and is almost completely colonized by the healthiest mycelium I've ever seen. The growth in whole rice jar A is apparent again, with rhizomorphs visible. The mycelium is steadily taking over the dried out area (caused by my hot light) and can also be seen far down the edge of the jar, so it is penetrating the rice mass. Growth in whole rice jar B has appeared and looks very healthy. So, many of my worries are gone and I am looking forward to some pins. I really must say that the Classic strain is outperforming B+ by quite a lot. Peace.

05-30-05, 14:16	#14 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	I checked the jars yesterday and, lo-and-behold, there are pins! This is in the PF half-pint. About 10-15 small pins are developing, and I can see the darker color of the caps on many. I'm very excited for this jar, and I have plans to clone the biggest fruit into honey water and inocculate the rest of my PF jars with that. As for the whole rice jars, they're still moving but slowly. Jar A is probably 50% colonized and jar B 30%. I think these are suffering because the substrate is too sticky and the mycelium has trouble penetrating it. When I harvest the first flush off of the PF jar, I'll include some pics.

05-31-05, 08:08	#18 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,323	ya gotta cook rice... __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

05-31-05, 19:52	#20 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,057	Ooooooh. I see what you're saying. Dukes tek is sorta like Hip's rye tek. Add the dry grains along with a measured amount of water to the jars and then pc? __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

05-31-05, 22:20	#21 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,057	Why not try to cook the rice as suggested and then rinse and drain well. Then after a the grain has drained, load into jars and pc for 60 minutes @ 15psi for sterilization? I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar the results would be great! __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

06-01-05, 16:52	#23 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Cool, bipolar. How will you fruit them? I was originally intending to fruit mine invitro... I think I'll make a jar using the pre-cook method sometime soon.

06-01-05, 18:34	#25 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,323	btw nice stealth setup there, kam. archive material __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

06-01-05, 22:54	#27 (permalink)
bipolar Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 284	I was planning on invitro for these babys. I agree with hip, that's a nice stealth setup ya got there. __________________ On opening his eyes he found himself with the professor and the guide, Looking around he saw an ocean stretching as far as the eye could see, And a forest of mushrooms...........

06-01-05, 23:59	#28 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,057	Hey Kam. What's the 411 on the dandelion beer? Is it made from the weed? Nice stealthy setup you've got there! __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

06-02-05, 14:41	#29 (permalink)
kam Mycomath & fungal physics Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 148	Thanks for all the praise for my little drawer, everybody.... I've removed the verm layer in my jar to give the pins fresh air and room. They are quickly developing into mushrooms, and I'm very excited. Dandelion beer can be made like any other herb beer: You boil the assorted herbs then add sugar and ferment the mixture. Mine ended up not fermenting, I think because the brewer's yeast I used must have been deactivated. I'll be adding different yeast to it soon. This site turned me on to it: Nettle, Dandelion and Burdock Beer. The harvest of the 'shrooms should be in a few days, so until then, Namaste

06-07-05, 20:03	#30 (permalink)
dukex Mycotopiate Join Date: May 1972 Posts: 587	Kam if you are getting wet results try a few jars with slighlty less water in increments till you nail it that is what I did. I wanted to push the water to the maximum with my tech maybe with the variations of rice this needs to be tweaked accordingly. I have some PR going this method now and when I get some time I will post some pics for comparison. Peace... Peace... __________________ "It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum and I'm all out of gum."

06-07-05, 20:20	#31 (permalink)
bipolar Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 284	So Duke, what kind of rice are you using? __________________ On opening his eyes he found himself with the professor and the guide, Looking around he saw an ocean stretching as far as the eye could see, And a forest of mushrooms...........