Wagner Wallpaper Steamer/Cooler Pasteurizer

[altered_states]

I'm just a few days away from beginning, "Straw Wars Part IV, A New Hope". The last three turned to The Dark Green Side. Fortunately my droid, G1 escaped the Imperial Storm Tricher infested Dark Star with some excellent master DAT's.

Shortly after landing on Alderaan, G1 was attacked by a pack of hooded little bastards with glowing eyes, so I smoked some Tatooine Hash with the thugs until their eyes turned squinty and red. This was our chance for escape. We walked away while they were mesmerized by their own glowing eyes.

We ran out of hash (those little guys can smoke) and decided to visit my good friend, Ben "One-Hit" Kenobi. He had lost his lighter and was smoking a bong with a Lightsaber when we arrived. He managed to pass me the bong and light it without even moving, muttering all the while about some force or something. I had apparently smoked way too much hash.

I ignored my hallucinations and asked Ben, "Do you feel like pasteurizing straw?"
"After one more bong", said Ben while coughing up his other lung.
"Marvelous", I replied. "Which way do you want do it this time?", I asked Ben. He had already forgotten what we were talking about so I went to the Mycointergalactic Web Forums for some sound advice.

I had trashed all of my old 'Maids to prevent the Dark Green Side from gaining a foothold on my new planet and found myself searching for a way to pasteurize straw. I was trying to decide whether to drop some $$ on a big cooler, get a Wagner Fusion Steamer 3000, etc. when Chewy replied to my forum post, giving me his opinion on the most up-to-date, and most effective pasteurization methods. He didn't want to see my fourth project fail, but could only grunt and groan, and I don't speak Wookie.

What do you think, friends? I like the combination of 170F H2O and Hydrated Lime. The Dark Green Side tends to stay away.

I thought I would ask for some advice in English concerning which method to use. I'm spending money on supplies today and I really like the convenience of the steamer. Are the results generally better than a hot water and lime bath? If using the steamer, one would simply add the Lime to the soak water, correct? Has this method been tested thoroughly enough to find out whether a Wagner is as effective as a hot water bath?

TMC mentions live steam for 2-4 hours at 140-150F before saying, "The method best suited to the home cultivator is the hot water bath." I'm fairly certain that Stamets and Chilton didn't have a Wagner in mind when they wrote this.

The Wagner is much easier for my current living situations, but I'm not willing to sacrifice ANY amount of quality to make things easier.

Thank You and May The Force be with you.

[Hippie3]

the steamer is certainly better than a chemical bath in hot water,
imo.
have you seen this-
http://www.mycotopia.net/site/article.php?21.255

you want to build something similar,
just don't run it so long
unless you want compost

[altered_states]

Thank you Hippie! Best link ever! I can't believe that I never found that page. I am buying the supplies for one today. Do you recommend the Vicks warm mist vaporizer as stated in the article or a Wagner power steamer? I'll almost certainly be using more than one of these setups. Can one Wagner power several composters? I assume that one would need a Vicks for each cooler. Correct? I'm trying to figure out which setup works best and is the most cost effective.

[altered_states]

One more thing... Can dehydrated or composted manure be substituted for fresh?

[Hippie3]

Do you recommend the Vicks warm mist vaporizer as stated in the article or a Wagner power steamer? I'll almost certainly be using more than one of these setups. Can one Wagner power several composters? I assume that one would need a Vicks for each cooler. Correct?

i used a steamer
but never grew enough to merit
hooking it up to multiple chambers
so i don't know how many it might handle.

[Hippie3]

Can dehydrated or composted manure be substituted for fresh?

by all means,
you don't want really fresh,
better to dry it first if it's horse,
cow benefits from a little aging as well.

[altered_states]

I apologize, I wasn't specific enough in my last question. I was refering to store bought dehydrated or composted manure.

[Hippie3]

i kinda figured that's what you meant,
it's ok if it's pure

[altered_states]

Excellent. The composted manure was on sale at Wally World so I picked up a few bags. The reason I asked about multiple containers is that I intend to make a straw log and I will need more pasteurized straw than one cooler is capable of holding. I'm guessing that I'll need 3 styrofoam coolers to hold enough straw for a log. Does that sound about right?

Pure= No Humus???

[destroy_erase_improve]

seems like your questions been answered to your satisfaction. id just like to say im trying the bleach/lime water straw tek, so ill keep you posted on that, and i wanted to also tell you that i enjoyed your first post . it was pretty fun to read.

[sinthetic]

USE THE FORCE!

nice work of fiction. I'd like to hear more. Maybe some illustrations?

[altered_states]

The resistance against The Dark Green Side is a battle that may never come to an end. The Dark Star must be destroyed before the Red States of the Empire steal another elec.... I mean destroy another pla... No no. What I meant to say is Before the Pres... (cough, cough)... Emperor eradicates the remaining Rebel Strongholds, taking absolute control over the entire galaxy. ('s oil supply.)

[Hippie3]

The reason I asked about multiple containers is that I intend to make a straw log and I will need more pasteurized straw than one cooler is capable of holding. I'm guessing that I'll need 3 styrofoam coolers to hold enough straw for a log. Does that sound about right?

i suppose that would depend on the
size of the log and the cooler.

[petri]

How much does a wagner steamer cost? Wally world told me Vicks stopped making that warm humidifier. I bought another unit which proved to be a waste of $, not hot enough. Girlfriend took it when I could not bend it to my evil ways, so I couldn't return it. I should have seen that coming and tried that unit while she was gone.

[Hippie3]

you can sometimes get them pretty cheap
reconditioned or on ebay
about $50 i think for factory reconditioned one

[petri]

Who would you contact for a reconditioned unit Hippie, Wagner?

[altered_states]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i suppose that would depend on the
size of the log and the cooler.

The log would be constructed using 7" diameter FoodSaver tubing. Aside from the tubing, everything is exactly as described in Rodger's Log TEK.

The only problem is the hydrated lime. I haven't figured out how to get the pH to increase without soaking the straw in a lime bath before steaming. The composter DIY instructions state that the straw is to be placed into the styrofoam cooler dry.

Do you think that a lime soak followed by draining the straw overnight in a plastic bag then steaming would work? If so, how long of a lime soak and in what temperature water. I suppose that I'd just stir it frequently during the soak to allow the straw and lime to mix as much as possible.

Would this be a waste of time? I'm not into wasting time. Somebody kick me before I start working if it is a waste. My weed wacker isn't here and I have a bail of straw that needs to be shredded. This is gonna be a bitch.

Anybody tried sawing slices of straw from a tight bail? How did it work out and what type of saw do you recommend? I'm planning on trying the saw with the smallest teeth first.

[karlfinn]

"Anybody tried sawing slices of straw from a tight bail? How did it work out and what type of saw do you recommend? I'm planning on trying the saw with the smallest teeth first."
======================
I have been standing up bales still bound and slicing thru with a decent electric chain saw..about 2-3 inch slices...and keep the chain outta the binder wire!
takes under five minutes to butcher a bale..
and have used veggie oil, canola, as the bar oil, shrooms love the oil..but it is not always needed as with cutting wood. put the bale on a tarp, pick a slightly windy day to keep the dust in motion. and away you go, the elec. saw is quite so the neighbors aren't always snooping and we cut wood all the time anyway..BUT?..
????BTW- anyone else work with any veggie oil in the straw as a protein enhancer,etc.??

note..this straw mix is pre-soaked in a poo mix-bath w/ some lime,etc. for several days to a week depending upon out-door temps..so the straw lengths which are a little long just don't seem to matter
as they are softened and broken with the 'composting' action. good luck ..

[karlfinn]

Oops, I forgot to say, I spray the bale down with warm water before chain-sawing, as dust control and it seems to cut up better. do not carry straw dust back into your lab, change clothes, shower ...etc...etc..
It all goes in to the 'kitchen' wetted and H2O2'd and in baskets for the big 100 quart pots of steamy water...
mmm...mmm...the smell of simmered straw in the morning....smells like..."victory"
to me! bug me for some pics and I'll get them up.

[altered_states]

I will soon be pasteurizing straw with live steam to build a log. The only problem is lime.

Has anyone tried a lime presoak before steam pasteurization?

The article on building the composter/pasteurizer states that dry straw should be placed inside.

Soak in lime bath and drain overnight?

Soak in lime bath and allow to dry?

Man, could I use some liquid lime.

Any suggestions/experiences are greatly appreciated.
I'll be doing something like this in a few days.

How big of a log are ya building? Are ya dead set on that pasturizing method? Try pasturizing in a pot of water for 1.5 hours at 160 degrees and add 1/8 cup of lime for every 3.5 gallons of water. There is no need to soak the straw prior to pasturizing with this method.

[highflyer]

I see no problem with steam pasteurizing after a lime soak.

[sinthetic]

i'd like to see pics of this steam pasturizer, i'm guessing industrial?

[altered_states]

HF, would you recommend draining the straw or drying it before steaming?

I'm making a 3 foot log using 7" Diameter FoodSaver tubing.

Thanks!

[Hippie3]

just drain it,
won't hurt the steaming process if straw is already damp

[altered_states]

Awesome. Thank you very much Hippie. I found my Vicks warm mist on sale this morning at a pharmacy after the ritualistic pre-grow trip to Lowe's.

Also, I started researching compost/composting some more after you sent me that link. I now realize that composted cow manure with humus is fine because humus is compost, hence the manure is pure, like you said.

I can be quite absent-minded.

Sinthetic, the link to the composter is in a thread called Straw Wars that I posted in the Fungi forum. Now I'm going to read about posting links, again. I hate it when I read an entire page and then realize that I wasn't paying attention. Never made it into long-term memory.

Peace

You'll be able to pack more straw into the pasteurizer if it is already wet. Dry straw is very bouyant.

[altered_states]

Lord Vader is planning another attack. The rebellion must soak all of it's straw in lime water before the Imperial Star Destroyers get close enough to pasteurize the rebel stockpiles for their own evil purposes. Luke and the gang are poppin' photon caps into the Destroyers' tailpipes to slow them down. The straw must be strong with lime in order to resist the Dark Green Side of the Force.

A Wookie steps through the door and asks, "Shall I use hot or cold water for the lime bath, and for what period of (Earth) time shall I soak respectively?" One rebel asks, "Since when can Wookies speak any language other than Wookie?" He got bitch slapped into a low orbit by that fuzzy bastard. There were no more questions asked about the ways of the Wookie.

The Wookie has everything ready to lime soak and live steam pasteurize the precut straw. He must do this quickly so the straw can be spawned with rye grain, stuffed into plastic tubes, and loaded into the Mycelium Falcon before the Empire is in range.

Should he use hot or cold water and how long should he presoak?

[destroy_erase_improve]

a foaf personally never uses any water hotter than his tap water can go. he uses one cup of bleach per ten gallons of water, and 1/2 a cup of lime per 14 gallons of water.

he just mulches the straw, submerges it in the water and goes to sleep. when he wakes up (around 8 hours later) he just drains and spawns into it.

hope this helps
good luck with the force

[altered_states]

The Wookie is very well versed in the ways of the Myconaut. He is trying something entirely different this time.

I would say hot is always better than cold for hydration of straw. Personally, I soak the straw in hot tap water for two hours or so, then move the wet straw into the high temp pasteurization bath for an hour and a half.

Could you heat/lime pasteurize your straw and let it sit for 12 hours after initial heat pasteurization?

Not presoaking.

You mean leave it in the pasteurization bath as it cools? I wouldn't. Bacteria loves to grow in a warm/luke warm water environment. Soak, then pasteurize, then drain and spawn. It's best not to re-invent the wheel. I'm not saying don't experiment, just remember biological principles when you do.

[altered_states]

Your Padawan thanks you, Obi-Wan Rodger.
What do you think of the plan to presoak in hot lime water before draining and steam pasteurizing? I would prefer to simply pasteurize in a hot water bath as stated in your log tek, but living arrangements negate that option at the moment.
Have you ever tried live steam pasteurization? It seemed like entirely too much hassle until the Hippie supplied a link to a composter/pasteurizer constructed from a Vicks Warm Mist Vaporizer, styrofoam cooler, and hardware cloth used to hold the straw above the bottom of the cooler.
Stamets mentions live steam pasteurization in TMC before mentioning hot water immersion, the latter stated as being more practical for the home grower.
Dou you think that lime soak/live steam will be as effective as immersion for your straw log tek?

Thanks again... I'm off to buy a pair of garden shears (broke all the scissors)

P.S. While I'm on the topic, what would be your choice of power tools to cut the straw into 1-3 inch pieces without turning it into confetti and ruining the structure of the straw?
String trimmer? Mulching leaf blower/vac? Manual hedge trimmers?
The mulching vac certainly seems to be the easiest and least messy option, which leads me to the conclusion that it is probably too good to be true. I still have doubts concerning whether it will jam constantly and/or destroy the structure of the straw along with it's water retention capability.

May the Force be with you

Found Hip's link: http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/109874.html

Any way you can chop the straw is fine. Anothe option for steam is to get some 3/8" tubing and clamp it to the spigot on your pc the weight sits on. Use your all american pressure cooker for a steam generator this way.

Nothing wrong with soaking in hot lime water first.

[altered_states]

I should probably go into more detail concerning my question about chopping methods. I am currently on the market for a straw shredder of some variety. My first attempt at a straw log using a string trimmer failed. I no longer have access to that string trimmer or anything that can chop straw. You said that the log failed because I chopped the straw into confetti, destroying it's tubular structure and water retention properties. The next time I used the string trimmer, after discussing my problem with you, it gave me good results.
I'm just trying to get some advice. I can't justify purchasing a chipper/shredder, but I also don't want to continue cutting bales of wheat straw into 1-3 inch pieces with garden shears.
I'm just asking what you would buy if you were in my situation. I can get a string trimmer, lawnmower, mulching vac, etc. for roughly the same price. If one product is superior, that is the product that I will purchase.

[destroy_erase_improve]

black n decker has a leaf blower.
its a 2 in 1. its a mulcher blower. it sucks the straw right into the mulcher and then shoots it into a bag that is attatched to it. its rad. a foaf has it and it cost her 40 bucks . its handheld and breaks apart for easy storage. it is what she uses everytime.

and when it snows she puts it on blower and clears the snow without hurting her back. btw its a plug in kind. so no fumes either. although it is semi loud so there is no hiding that

[altered_states]

Tonight was it's first run; Everything seemed to go very smoothly.
That's a 62Qt. cooler.
Inside of it are white racks, just like the things under the steamer in the pics.
They seem to provide more than adequate lift and load-bearing properties for the hardware cloth basket that rests on top of them.
After the steamer got going, it took about a half-hour for the substrate to reach 160F.
I unplugged it at about 162F, then plugged it back in 5 minutes later because the temp dropped below 160F.
The temperature regulated itself perfectly; I simply let the steamer run for 2 hours and the temp stayed dead-on at 160F.
There are two 6mm holes drilled in the lid, one of which is occupied by a meat thermometer in the photographs.
The weights were added because the lid starts to warp after prolonged exposure to heat, sagging down in the middle and allowing excess steam to escape around the edges.
This thing is filled with composted horse manure, a brick of expanded coir, a handful of used coffee grinds and a cup or so of hydrated lime.
I took Hippie's suggestion, and placed a thin layer of straw on top of the hardware cloth to prevent the other goodies from falling through.
This poop's cooling down as I type.
Pictures of the pasteurization's aftermath and the inside of the cooler will be here tomorrow.
There's a LOT of substrate in there, and the Wagner had no problem keeping it at 160F.
Hopefully, I got the moisture somewhere close to correct.
Until I open the lid tomorrow, I can only dream.
This is way way way way way better than pasteurizing in hot water, assuming that the thing worked.
I see no reason why it shouldn't work...
Everything went like clockwork on this project... Too easy...
Anyway... My friend's cat liked it too... Pilleurizer? Pasteurillo? Either way, the warm hose apparently made a good pillow. That cat didn't move very much for two hours.
Looking forward to tomorrow's results
Peace,
AS

i've read teks about using steam to pasturize..
this is the first post i have seen about this in
a very...very..long time....thnx for your pics...
i can't wait ti see the outcome(which i think will be
good..).....

[jrogers311]

Way to go altered! Is the steamer expensive? It is used for removing wallpaper and such in the real world right?

[PsychoactiveMessiah]

Ive seen a few before, like the vicks vaporizer for doing compost..neat stuff..let us know how it goes...

[Dank Side Of The Shroom]

nice tek man. yeah how much is that. i need to build me one of those.

[altered_states]

Here's Hippie's link for the Wagner:

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2....&PROD_ID=12439

That's the best price I've seen, $34US factory reconditioned.

I paid $50 for mine at Lowe's and it's the exact same model, the 705 Power Steamer.

The cooler was $35.
I bought it during the summer, and it turned out to be such a great cooler that I kept using it, delaying my project. The Wagner's been NIB since the summer, too, sitting on the bottom of my closet.

The steamer's intended purpose is wallpaper removal. (there are much better ways to remove wallpaper... enymes that eat glue, Etc.)

I already had the hardware cloth and white racks. (and some other miscellaneous stuff) I either forgot or never knew their prices, but...

Total cost is about $100...

About the same cost as a propane burner and a big-ass stockpot or metal drum. The steamer setup is much easier to acquire and to use. It's probably much, much more safe, too, considering that I no don't need to lift a 200 pound barrell off a 90,000BTU rocket motor.

The process I just mentioned can NOT be accompolished in the living room; that requires, first and foremost, that you be OUTDOORS... Not good when you have neighbors or Winter. (LPG is NOT a good thing to to burn in your house for many, many reasons. Take a cue from the stove, only natural gas indoors) Steamer's still orders of magnitude easier.

The steamer setup doesn't require a trip to a brew supply store, or any specialty store for that matter.

Not having to work with 10, 20, or 30+ Gallons of 170F shit-bleach-lime-water...
Priceless.

More pics coming later today.

Peace,
AS

[red_lenses]

VERY cool!
Keep us posted, I just might know somebody that could REALLY use one of those.

Red

[altered_states]

Sorry about the delay...

Here's what it looked like when I opened it up.
Moisture content was WAY too low.
At least water is easier to add than it is to subtract.
The materials were only moist enough to control dust while mixing.

The cooled, pasteurized substrate was sprayed with ordinary tap water from a bottle that previously contained 10% bleach solution.
I dumped out the bleach solution and filled from the tap, no rinsing.

The tray is 13"x9", and it has a twin.
Each was inoculated with 1 Qt. jar of multispore rye berries.
The spawn and sub were layered nice and evenly into the trays.

Plenty of crap remains in that cooler; it was barely dented.

Any suggestions on getting my moisture content correct would be great.
I didn't soak the substrate because this is my first steam trial.
I've read about steaming dry straw, and having it at perfect field capacity when cooled, so I was conservative.

I'll keep you posted.

Peace, AS

[altered_states]

Originally Posted by darksideoftheshroom

nice tek man. yeah how much is that. i need to build me one of those.

Thank you, thank you...
But this is by no means a TEK. (yet)
And it certainly isn't my TEK...

Hippie sent me this link a long time ago:

http://www.mycotopia.net/site/article.php?21.255

Hippie seems to be a big fan of steam pasteurization.
I intend to find out exactly why this is the case.

Here's another thread on this topic that I found to be quite informative:

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1078666159

Peace,
AS

[altered_states]

The two trays seem to be colonizing nicely.
They are colonizing unevenly, but like I said before, they're multispore. (PF Hawaiian Spores... I love Hawaiians)

The trays will be ready for casing in 2-3 more days; I haven't seen them since yesterday afternoon.

The pasteurizer had it's second run last night.
This time I hydrated the substrate to roughly field capacity before steaming the contents. I sprayed the contents with 10% bleach before hydrating with hot tap water.

I belive that I may have used a little too much water; the mix wasn't soaked by any stretch, but the temperature would not go above 150F for the duration of the run. (2 hrs after reaching 150F, this time) Hopefully it will be alright.

I'll have a much better idea what went on inside there after I open it today. I assume that, despite my efforts, the substrate became compacted, OR the mound that I built up so the thermometer's probe would be in the compost fell apart and I was measuring air temperature.

More pics later today or tomorrow.

Peace,
AS

[altered_states]

The substrate from the pasteurizer's second run was also surprisingly dry. I couldn't get a drop of water to squeeze out of it after it had cooled.
Because this form of pasteurization is new to me, I decided to spawn without adding any water, although the sub seemed dry.
I layered roughly 4'' of this substrate with 2 Qt's of rye spawn in the bottom of an 18 Gallon (I believe) Sterilite.
That was 5 days ago, and it's just beginning to poke through the surface in a few places. The picture below was taken immediately after spawning, but it really doesn't look any different today. The edges are pulling in nicely...
The tray, pictured above was cased today with microwaved vermiculite (moistened before nuking). The tray is now filled to the top with the addition of the casing layer.
No sights or smells of contamination in any of the projects.

[bassplar99]

I hae that same cooler (it is a good cooler) and was planning on doing this in a week. Can you go into more detail about what you had to do to regulate your temp? I was worried about this and was thinking about putting a regulator in there with a thermocouple to kick the steamer on and off.

[reverend trips]

That is awesome AS.
So you mixed a cup of hydrated lime into your compost?
Wonder if you could add the lime right into the steamer and do it that way?
Thanks for giving me an excuse to go blow some money on another power tool