experiment -BlueFoot cakes (really Ps.Ovoideocystidata)

mycobri · 09-01-07, 10:01

so this is an experiment to attempt to fruit ps. caerulipes from a cake that already has a casing layer.

it is based on the radel / cyano idea of a core and shell.
this will be attempt #2 at fruiting ps. caerulipes

as far as ID of spores, these are the spores directly from the Bluefoots that Golly fruited.

not sure of the difference between ps. Caerulipes and ps. ovoideocystidiata, but they are one of the two

PP5 deli containers will be used.

the core ingredients dry

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-supercake-core-dry.jpg

using hips supercake mix for best results.

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-supercake-mix-wet.jpg

after adding water and verm

the shell ingredients dry

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-dry-shell-mix.jpg

• there are very thin coffee stirrer bits boiled for an hour or so to make them soft.
i believe they are birch (thanks orchidman)
• 3 spoonfuls of Rye Grass Seed
• 12 0z. of Agway premium potting soil

the shell mix is wet to field capacity

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-shell-mix-wet.jpg

a pan works well as water can be added and the pan tilted to drain.
6 oz. Manure / kelp tea was used to hydrate the mix.
then a small amount of verm if needed to bring down to field capacity

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-shell-prod.jpg

then the outer shell was formed by loading the mix in along the outer edge of a 1/2 pint widemouth
and pressed in a circular motion to firm up the shell.

then the core is loaded.

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-shellcore.jpg

they are topped off with a thick dry verm barrier.
then they temporary foil lids are rubberbanded on and toothpick sized holes added for venting.

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-foil-pc.jpg

after sterilization and cooling the foil lids will be switched with PP5 lids in a GB then knoc'd
so far this is the method that will be used.

ran into a few problems so far though:

the first batch was badly burned and some pp5's melted in the pc.

the second batch was made, PC'd and then it was realized that there were mealworms in the substrate

all that time and work wasted!

luckily the jars were not knoc'd and no spores wasted.

fresh brf will be purchased and round three will begin this weekend.

feel free to share any helpful ideas

mycobri · 09-01-07, 10:20

To test the syringes for contams some popcorn quarts and an LC were started.

experiment-bluefoot-cakes-really-ps-ovoideocystidata-bf-backup-quarts.jpg

the two on the left were colonizing at 82 degrees in a TIT incubator.
the two on the right were colonizing at room temps (about 72 degrees) in a cardboard box

so it seems safe to say that they do better at room temps as previously recommended.

the karo / water LC is actually doing good so far.
maybe extra bluefoot cakes will be able to be produced if the LC works out.

golly · 09-01-07, 10:30

Glad your trying those spores out Myco..They are indeed Caerulipes...

Think you will need some kind of Lignin source for fruiting though, like sawdust,chips or mulch..

I could see this working as long as u can provide cool room temps for the fruiting [60s].... In higher temps the risk of mold increases, as it takes much longer to pin than a Cube cake ...

Keep us posted Mang ..gluk

Hippie3 · 09-01-07, 10:37

good luck!

mycobri · 09-01-07, 10:40

thanks. i will

mulch is a great idea.
i think some mulch will replace the coffee stirrer bits on the next batch

the jesus · 09-01-07, 10:48

Interesting stuff bri, can't wait to see how it turns out.

09-02-07, 07:49

good luck!

cheshire · 09-02-07, 07:56

hope these turn out good

mycobri · 09-02-07, 08:02

Thanks for you support!

Quote:

Originally Posted by golly

Glad your trying those spores out Myco..They are indeed Caerulipes...

yeah now that i read in the vaults a bit,
i see this matter has been settled.

looks like ps. ovoideocystidiata would have purple spores.

so these are ps. Caerulipes and do indeed have rusty brown spores.

in the pics -the top rows are cubes (purple)
the bottom ones are the ps. Caerulipes (rusty brown)

Workman · 09-02-07, 17:24

Whoa, wait. So these are real Psilocybe caerulipes? I definately need some spores of that for confirmation and experimentation. Are there pictures of the mushrooms that these spore came from?

Workman · 09-03-07, 16:12

I've reviewed the relevent threads on this particular grow and have concluded that despite the off colored spores, these still appear to be P. ovoideocystidiata and not P. caerulipes. The membranous ring on the stalk is a dead give away and the tendency to stain blue is much more pronounced in the ovoids.

But, that said, its best not to assume too much from pictures. The two species can be easily seperated by the spore shape since they belong to different Sections.

Psilocybe caerulipes
Section: Semilanceata
Spores 7-10 microns ellipisoid.

Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata
Section: Stuntzae
Spores 8-9 microns rhomboid.

Spore examination pending. I have also been granted access to P. caerulipes herbarium material for a direct comparison when it arrives. Unfortunately the herbarium material is old and likely unviable.

mycobri · 09-03-07, 18:00

Thanks workman.

Until then the grow will proceed as planned
using a replacement for the coffee stirrers,
maybe some mulch or hickory chips as sawdust.
Oak is also available

also after some reading, it seems that Humus is a good part decomposed Lignin. so maybe Humus will replace the potting soil.

any opinions about Apple woodchips?
some apple woodchips are available and i belive apple is a hardwood.

golly · 09-03-07, 18:39

Make that double whoa...!!
I based a good part of my reasoning on your work with the Ovoids WM ..Not only is the spore color dramatically different in all the ones i grew but the overall appearance of the fruitbody itself ..Although i cannot describe the difference in myco lingo - I can send you a print..
This needs to be put to rest because every thread has similar comments..

The ones i grew indoors did not blue at all, just the outside grown, showed gradual bluing...Why would a Bluefoot not be blue...? inquiring minds...

Workman · 09-03-07, 19:38

I hope it is different. I have spores from your specimens coming via other members so I should have something more solid to report soon.

I guess I should have paid more attention to the brown spored version at the time it first came up but I was just assuming it was the same species everyone else was working on.

Hippie3 · 09-03-07, 19:49

Quote:

I've reviewed the relevent threads on this particular grow

would someone plz link the 'relevant threads'
for the record ?

mycobri · 09-03-07, 20:01

Hippie3 · 09-03-07, 20:18

golly · 09-03-07, 20:38

Thanx for posting those links Myco ..Sorry your thread is getting derailed ,we can split it off if you like...
WM..Had i seen your last post in the Ovoids thread - i would have sent a print a long time ago...heh,, oh well...
I don't mind what it turns out to be - i just want my kids to have a real name...I gotta believe they are different though, although there is a red spore Cube and Panaeolus ,so i guess anything is possible..

mycobri · 09-03-07, 20:44

no need to seperate the thread, unless you want to

i enjoy the identification process

the spores from your children Golly were used in this 'experiment'

the spores that will be sent in for identification by workman
will be from the print originally recieved from llamabox.

golly · 09-03-07, 21:03

One would not think that these are the same mushrooms from the same patch..but they are..

Clamp · 09-04-07, 07:25

OMG that brown patch is beautiful

mycobri · 09-09-07, 21:06

okay the new plan has been set into motion.

4 1/2 pt. widemouth jars are being started to be followed by a larger amount of PP5 containers.

the new "shell" mix contains these ingredients:
• 1/3 sifted peat moss
• 1/3 coir
• 1/3 sifted premium potting soil
• 2 tablespoons of RGS
• fresh sifted oak sawdust
• a mix of fresh oak woodbits and dried hickory chips
• hydrated with kelp water.

any thing that you would change about this mix?
Tips are welcome

Another experiment in the works
is a whole new idea-

PP5 containers with the shell held in place
by a 1/2 pint widemouth jar and pressure cooked.

Then the colonized popcorn spawn
will be filled into the sterilized shell in a glove box
then sealed and left to recover at room temps.

kind of like adding the spawn to the casing
and letting it colonize the casing shell invitro.
hopefully fresh air is not a factor when colonizing the shell.

well see what happens.
pics of the process will be uploaded soon

Hippie3 · 09-22-07, 23:45

how's it going ?

mycobri · 09-23-07, 00:11

some new cakes are colonizing (i think)
i think they are doing well. i can't tell if they are colonizing until the shell shows the myc growing through.

the spore solution is injected into the center of the jar
in all 4 innoc points

i might open one shell-core style PP5 just too see if there is growth.

the popcorn quarts have been cased in boiled coffee stirrer bits
and there is some signs of growth

mycobri · 09-23-07, 00:22

one PP5 was just opened and the interior was completely overcome by a green powdered contam.

i think the 1/2 pt. widemouths have a better chance
for some reason

these rusty-brown spores seem to love popcorn
so far have seen the best ..rather the only results using p-corn

next
might try adding fully colonized popcorn
to pastureised empty shells in 1/2 pt widemouths
in a glovebox for the transfer and
left to recover at room temps.

no light sheild needed due to the dark shell
and ready to birth without having to case

at least that was the idea

mycobri · 10-09-07, 00:00

okay the 1/2 pint cakes were mostly colonized and
planted outside in flower pots on wood chips
and the shell is misted to field capacity daily.

meanwhile the results are in from workman-

looks like i will start a new thread with a
new species name if any fruits appear

until then i will still stick with
the parameters that Golly was very successful with

very strange that the spore color varies so much
at least part of the mystery is solved

orchid · 10-09-07, 00:12

go go go

golly · 10-09-07, 16:43

Yep, Workman say's these are def not Bluefoot's...

So the best match is the Ps. Ovoids [Abrevaited name] With a spore color variation..

Thanyou WM for your assistance..Now my babes have a real name..

What really counts - is this species is very potent and fruits well in temperate regions,
where Cyans and Azures may not do so well...

Gluk with your flower pots Myco...!

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09-01-07, 10:01	#1 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	experiment -BlueFoot cakes (really Ps.Ovoideocystidata) so this is an experiment to attempt to fruit ps. caerulipes from a cake that already has a casing layer. it is based on the radel / cyano idea of a core and shell. this will be attempt #2 at fruiting ps. caerulipes as far as ID of spores, these are the spores directly from the Bluefoots that Golly fruited. not sure of the difference between ps. Caerulipes and ps. ovoideocystidiata, but they are one of the two PP5 deli containers will be used. the core ingredients dry using hips supercake mix for best results. after adding water and verm the shell ingredients dry • there are very thin coffee stirrer bits boiled for an hour or so to make them soft. i believe they are birch (thanks orchidman) • 3 spoonfuls of Rye Grass Seed • 12 0z. of Agway premium potting soil the shell mix is wet to field capacity a pan works well as water can be added and the pan tilted to drain. 6 oz. Manure / kelp tea was used to hydrate the mix. then a small amount of verm if needed to bring down to field capacity then the outer shell was formed by loading the mix in along the outer edge of a 1/2 pint widemouth and pressed in a circular motion to firm up the shell. then the core is loaded. they are topped off with a thick dry verm barrier. then they temporary foil lids are rubberbanded on and toothpick sized holes added for venting. after sterilization and cooling the foil lids will be switched with PP5 lids in a GB then knoc'd so far this is the method that will be used. ran into a few problems so far though: the first batch was badly burned and some pp5's melted in the pc. the second batch was made, PC'd and then it was realized that there were mealworms in the substrate all that time and work wasted! luckily the jars were not knoc'd and no spores wasted. fresh brf will be purchased and round three will begin this weekend. feel free to share any helpful ideas

09-01-07, 10:20	#2 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	Backup jars & colonization temps To test the syringes for contams some popcorn quarts and an LC were started. the two on the left were colonizing at 82 degrees in a TIT incubator. the two on the right were colonizing at room temps (about 72 degrees) in a cardboard box so it seems safe to say that they do better at room temps as previously recommended. the karo / water LC is actually doing good so far. maybe extra bluefoot cakes will be able to be produced if the LC works out.

09-01-07, 10:37	#4 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,331	good luck! __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

09-01-07, 10:48	#6 (permalink)
the jesus mayor of boozeville Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,580	Interesting stuff bri, can't wait to see how it turns out. __________________ No left turn unstoned newbie? - click here

09-01-07, 10:30	#3 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,670	Glad your trying those spores out Myco..They are indeed Caerulipes... Think you will need some kind of Lignin source for fruiting though, like sawdust,chips or mulch.. I could see this working as long as u can provide cool room temps for the fruiting [60s].... In higher temps the risk of mold increases, as it takes much longer to pin than a Cube cake ... Keep us posted Mang ..gluk

09-01-07, 10:40	#5 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	thanks. i will mulch is a great idea. i think some mulch will replace the coffee stirrer bits on the next batch

09-02-07, 07:49	#7 (permalink)
~vinz Guest Posts: n/a	good luck!

09-02-07, 07:56	#8 (permalink)
cheshire Mycotopiate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 650	hope these turn out good

09-02-07, 17:24	#10 (permalink)
Workman Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 579	Whoa, wait. So these are real Psilocybe caerulipes? I definately need some spores of that for confirmation and experimentation. Are there pictures of the mushrooms that these spore came from? __________________ I can't believe I get paid for this. Founder of Sporeworks.com 1998 Workman's Mycotopia Gallery

09-03-07, 16:12	#11 (permalink)
Workman Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 579	I've reviewed the relevent threads on this particular grow and have concluded that despite the off colored spores, these still appear to be P. ovoideocystidiata and not P. caerulipes. The membranous ring on the stalk is a dead give away and the tendency to stain blue is much more pronounced in the ovoids. But, that said, its best not to assume too much from pictures. The two species can be easily seperated by the spore shape since they belong to different Sections. Psilocybe caerulipes Section: Semilanceata Spores 7-10 microns ellipisoid. Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata Section: Stuntzae Spores 8-9 microns rhomboid. Spore examination pending. I have also been granted access to P. caerulipes herbarium material for a direct comparison when it arrives. Unfortunately the herbarium material is old and likely unviable. __________________ I can't believe I get paid for this. Founder of Sporeworks.com 1998 Workman's Mycotopia Gallery

09-03-07, 18:00	#12 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	Thanks workman. Until then the grow will proceed as planned using a replacement for the coffee stirrers, maybe some mulch or hickory chips as sawdust. Oak is also available also after some reading, it seems that Humus is a good part decomposed Lignin. so maybe Humus will replace the potting soil. any opinions about Apple woodchips? some apple woodchips are available and i belive apple is a hardwood.

09-03-07, 18:39	#13 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,670	Make that double whoa...!! I based a good part of my reasoning on your work with the Ovoids WM ..Not only is the spore color dramatically different in all the ones i grew but the overall appearance of the fruitbody itself ..Although i cannot describe the difference in myco lingo - I can send you a print.. This needs to be put to rest because every thread has similar comments.. The ones i grew indoors did not blue at all, just the outside grown, showed gradual bluing...Why would a Bluefoot not be blue...? inquiring minds...

09-03-07, 19:38	#14 (permalink)
Workman Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 579	I hope it is different. I have spores from your specimens coming via other members so I should have something more solid to report soon. I guess I should have paid more attention to the brown spored version at the time it first came up but I was just assuming it was the same species everyone else was working on. __________________ I can't believe I get paid for this. Founder of Sporeworks.com 1998 Workman's Mycotopia Gallery

09-03-07, 20:01	#16 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	here are a bunch of links i found to threads and some important posts, and some pics of the original wild mushrooms posted by llamabox. i'm sure i missed a thread or two llamabox posted this pic of wild specimen http://forums.mycotopia.net/attachme...-bluehabxi.jpg from this post http://forums.mycotopia.net/326992-post12.html (My first Caerulipes.. [merged]) original marketplace thread http://forums.mycotopia.net/market-p...ot-prints.html (Psilocybe caerulipes (Bluefoot) prints) llama's post to location http://forums.mycotopia.net/296468-post30.html (Bluefoot , anyone got it workin,what tek?) more habitat http://forums.mycotopia.net/296617-post34.html (Bluefoot , anyone got it workin,what tek?) original finds http://forums.mycotopia.net/256995-post1.html (Psilocybe caeruleus finds) golly's outdoor grow http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-m...oor-patch.html mycobri failed first attempt http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...ontainers.html workman's ovoid thread / more of the mystery http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-m...-outdoors.html (Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata - Bethany outdoors) golly's grow & foster's accidental fruiting http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-m...es-merged.html (My first Caerulipes.. [merged]) llama's post about all the prints origins http://forums.mycotopia.net/378056-post9.html (Bluefoot disagreement rages on) from http://forums.mycotopia.net/fungi-gr...ent-rages.html (Bluefoot disagreement rages on) llamabox posts someone elses indoor grow http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...-fruiting.html (Psilocybe cearulipes indoor fruiting) Last edited by mycobri : 01-11-08 at 21:49.

10-09-07, 00:12	#27 (permalink)
orchid 93/93 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 395	go go go

09-03-07, 20:18	#17 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,331	thx __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

09-03-07, 20:38	#18 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,670	Thanx for posting those links Myco ..Sorry your thread is getting derailed ,we can split it off if you like... WM..Had i seen your last post in the Ovoids thread - i would have sent a print a long time ago...heh,, oh well... I don't mind what it turns out to be - i just want my kids to have a real name...I gotta believe they are different though, although there is a red spore Cube and Panaeolus ,so i guess anything is possible..

09-03-07, 20:44	#19 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	no need to seperate the thread, unless you want to i enjoy the identification process the spores from your children Golly were used in this 'experiment' the spores that will be sent in for identification by workman will be from the print originally recieved from llamabox.

09-03-07, 21:03	#20 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,670	One would not think that these are the same mushrooms from the same patch..but they are.. Attached Thumbnails

09-04-07, 07:25	#21 (permalink)
Clamp Mycophiliac Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22	wow OMG that brown patch is beautiful

09-09-07, 21:06	#22 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	okay the new plan has been set into motion. 4 1/2 pt. widemouth jars are being started to be followed by a larger amount of PP5 containers. the new "shell" mix contains these ingredients: • 1/3 sifted peat moss • 1/3 coir • 1/3 sifted premium potting soil • 2 tablespoons of RGS • fresh sifted oak sawdust • a mix of fresh oak woodbits and dried hickory chips • hydrated with kelp water. any thing that you would change about this mix? Tips are welcome Another experiment in the works is a whole new idea- PP5 containers with the shell held in place by a 1/2 pint widemouth jar and pressure cooked. Then the colonized popcorn spawn will be filled into the sterilized shell in a glove box then sealed and left to recover at room temps. kind of like adding the spawn to the casing and letting it colonize the casing shell invitro. hopefully fresh air is not a factor when colonizing the shell. well see what happens. pics of the process will be uploaded soon

09-22-07, 23:45	#23 (permalink)
Hippie3 Admin Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36,331	how's it going ? __________________ GROW SUPPLIES: www.Mycrotopia.com ------------Simply The Best------------ Namaste Temet Nosce

09-23-07, 00:11	#24 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	some new cakes are colonizing (i think) i think they are doing well. i can't tell if they are colonizing until the shell shows the myc growing through. the spore solution is injected into the center of the jar in all 4 innoc points i might open one shell-core style PP5 just too see if there is growth. the popcorn quarts have been cased in boiled coffee stirrer bits and there is some signs of growth

09-23-07, 00:22	#25 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	one PP5 was just opened and the interior was completely overcome by a green powdered contam. i think the 1/2 pt. widemouths have a better chance for some reason these rusty-brown spores seem to love popcorn so far have seen the best ..rather the only results using p-corn next might try adding fully colonized popcorn to pastureised empty shells in 1/2 pt widemouths in a glovebox for the transfer and left to recover at room temps. no light sheild needed due to the dark shell and ready to birth without having to case at least that was the idea

10-09-07, 00:00	#26 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449	okay the 1/2 pint cakes were mostly colonized and planted outside in flower pots on wood chips and the shell is misted to field capacity daily. meanwhile the results are in from workman- looks like i will start a new thread with a new species name if any fruits appear until then i will still stick with the parameters that Golly was very successful with very strange that the spore color varies so much at least part of the mystery is solved Attached Thumbnails

10-09-07, 16:43	#28 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,670	Yep, Workman say's these are def not Bluefoot's... So the best match is the Ps. Ovoids [Abrevaited name] With a spore color variation.. Thanyou WM for your assistance..Now my babes have a real name.. What really counts - is this species is very potent and fruits well in temperate regions, where Cyans and Azures may not do so well... Gluk with your flower pots Myco...!

10-22-07, 00:43	#29 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,449