Life, Death, and In-between

[waylitjim]

A recent Gallup Poll revealed that one in four Americans believed in reincarnation which literally means, "to come again in the flesh." Reincarnation has also been defined as "The belief that the soul or some power passes after death into another body".

For the foreseeable future, there can be no absolute scientific proof of reincarnation, and none against it. It is up to the individual whether they take a personal stand or not on the issue. If you have any ideas of feelings about this, feel free to comment. Or you can just vote in the Poll.

Reincarnation is a major facet of the eastern religions of Hinduism and Buddhism. Many sects have variant views of reincarnation. Here is a general summary of the basic principles.

Living things possess a physical body and an immaterial entity called the soul, life force, or Jiva. At death, the life force separates from the body and takes a new physical form. The law of karma determines what form the individual will take. This law teaches that one’s thoughts, words, and deeds have an ethical consequence, fixing one’s lot in future existences. Our present state is the result of actions and intentions performed in a previous life. The amount of good or bad karma attained in our present life will determine if one returns in a higher or a lower form of existence. (Karma is a Sanskrit word meaning - deed, to do.)

One will endure hundreds, even millions of reincarnations, either evolving into a higher or lower form of life to work off the debt of karma. This cycle of reincarnation is called the law of samsara. Eventually one hopes to work off all bad karma and free oneself from the reincarnation cycle and attain unity with the divine. This freeing from the cycle of reincarnation is called moksha. The soul is viewed as imprisoned in a body and must be freed to attain unity with the divine. The goal of the student of Buddhism is the same as the goal of the student of Yoga, to achieve enlightenment and break the cycle of reincarnation.

The concept of reincarnation seems to offer one of the most attractive explanations of humanity’s origin and destiny. To know that you lived many lives before this one and that there are many more to come is a very attractive perspective from which to judge the meaning of life. Another reason for accepting reincarnation is that it seems to explain the differences that exist among people. Some are healthy, others are tormented their whole life by physical handicaps. Some are rich, others at the brink of starvation. Some have success without being religious; others are constant losers, despite their religious dedication. Eastern religions explain these differences as a result of previous lives, good or bad, which bear their fruits in the present one through the action of karma. Therefore reincarnation seems to be a way of punishing or rewarding one’s deeds, without the need of accepting a personal God as Ultimate Reality.

Reincarnation in Buddhism:

Buddhism denies the existence of a permanent self that reincarnates from one life to the next. The illusion of an existing self is generated by a mere heap of five aggregates, which suffer from constant becoming and have a functional cause-effect relation: 1) the body, also called the material form, 2) feeling - the sensations that arise from the body’s sense organs, 3) cognition - the process of classifying and labeling experiences, 4) mental constructions - the states which initiate action, and 5) consciousness - the sense of awareness of a sensory or mental object. The five elements are impermanent, undergo constant transformation and have no abiding principle or self.

Humans usually think that they have a self because of consciousness. But being itself in a constant process of becoming and change, consciousness cannot be identified with a self that is supposed to be permanent. Beyond the five aggregates nothing else can be found in the human nature.

Students of Buddhism often encounter an intellectual quandary. If there is no-self, no abiding essence of the person, it is unclear what it is that is reborn. The Buddha answered that only karma is passing from one life to another.

Such a solution is the Consciousness-only teaching of the Yogacara school: at death the body & mind disintegrates, but if the disintegrating mind contains any remaining traces of karma, it will cause the continuity of the consciousness to bounce back an arising mind to an awaiting being (i.e. a fetus developing the ability to harbor consciousness).

[viraljimmy]

I don't even believe in the thing that is supposed to be reborn.

[Hippie3]

god recycles

[BuckarooBanzai]

Reincarnation is nothing more complex, to me, than a spiritual application of the basic concept of conservation of energy.

To me, the idea that the life force somehow vanishes, rather than transmogrifying into another form, is simply absurd.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed in this universe, it simply changes forms.

Like us.

[InsidiousDecrepancy]

I always thought as a kid, being a human being is mearly the first stage, and as we die we slowly move down the food chain, being reincarnated as every creature on earth one at a time. If it's true, it would be extremly humbling to start at the top and learn life as a mere insect.

[chimp]

Originally Posted by BuckarooBanzai

To me, the idea that the life force somehow vanishes, rather than transmogrifying into another form, is simply absurd.

I agree completely, but the jury is still out for me regarding whether or not that energy will manifest itself (to my consciousness) in the form of "flesh" once again.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Heh, heh...

Never said anything about ya being a monkey again next time...just said it is absurd, to me, to imagine the life force "vanishing."

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by waylitjim

This freeing from the cycle of reincarnation is called moksha.

I feel strongly about this statement, but think that it happens immediatly following passing. I think that the being behind the biological machine is made of light energy and when our physical forms cease to be, we move into the limitless dimensions of energy. Metzner spoke about these other dimensions and how important it was for us to know about them and get to know them through using our plant teachers and their alchemical, boundary dissolving, abilities.

I love learning to navigate

[crazy1]

I agree with BB and Pedestrian, I also believe that energy is never created or destroyed. But I also believe that the energy we are can choose how we spend our incarnations. Whatever they may be.

[The Rogue Angel]

I do believe that we go on and I hope following statement will sum up my thoughts in a manner that contributes to this poll.

You are not a human being who is having a spiritual experience. You are an immortal spiritual being that is temporarily having the human experience.

[farmerjohncc]

wow....some deep posts here. bottom line for me is we are always here - with a short break to gather energy - aka death.

seems to bring a greater sense of meaning to live with the viewpoint of infinite lifetimes...as well as a greater sense of responsiblity for what we experience in relationship to all that is around us.

and that would seem to be a good thing for all.

[prism]

I think that life is either an absolute coincidence that has no real point other than the fact that what is alive wishes to remain alive and reproduce copies of it's DNA. (Hope not)

Or there are no coincidences and we exist for the purpose of entertaining our "spirit" through vacations that are lives. How boring would eternity be without "trips" in which we are oblivious to our immortality. It's like when I phish out on Nitrous and there is a moment where I am somewhere "else" and everyone is laughing at me and welcoming me back for just an instant, then boom! all is back to "Normal reality" We are all just playing with our perception for fun! (Hope So!)

Prism

[camMyco]

Originally Posted by BuckarooBanzai

To me, the idea that the life force somehow vanishes, rather than transmogrifying into another form, is simply absurd.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed in this universe, it simply changes forms.

Like us.

Covers my thoughts, exactly.

[chokdeemax]

I believe in the Buddhist interpretation and like BuckarooBanzai i think that we r all made of energy and that no energy is lost..just transfers

[peek-a-boo]

energy is infinite.
has anyone read "the holographic universe", very cool book.
in it it cites some past life regression hypnosis sessions where people were able to bring back startling accurate facts about mundane things of past centuries..
many people from many different studies at different times at different places and no way connected with each other would talk about a "between life" place where the "dimension" they were in was composed of light and they were there programming their next life in order to learn vital lessons in order to attain a celestial status...they all cited beings of light that would help them and guide them in "writing the story of their next life"...
one lady even remembered programming in her life that she was to get raped to learn to overcome great loss, and great pain...
it is a very interesting topic none the less...
and the fact that these stories come from different times across the globe hints that there is at least a nugget of truth...if not a whole barge of nuggets...

In Lak'ech!!!

[TVCasualty]

I've wondered if we are eternal spiritual beings that, having such a long time to hang out, are here seeking novelty. What is more novel to something Eternal than mortality? Maybe being born here is the result of our spirit doing the spiritual equivalent of smoking DMT, and the physical world is our hallucinatory experience, our "rush." Eventually we'll come back down and become our 'real' selves again, and like with smoking DMT, some of us probably like to do it often and some only need to have the experience once.

[synesthesia]

Originally Posted by The Rogue Angel

I do believe that we go on and I hope following statement will sum up my thoughts in a manner that contributes to this poll.

You are not a human being who is having a spiritual experience. You are an immortal spiritual being that is temporarily having the human experience.

well said.

one life, no do-overs.

i've never put any stock in "past lives" but i do believe that karma has a role to play in our human experience. or rather what goes around, comes around. seems like a well-formulated idea that lends balance to the universe.

[SinBoy]

When I was younger and had the Christian mythology pounded into my head I thought reincarnation was absurd. Later, after going through a transformation and dumping my Christian beliefs in the garbage where they belong, I thought of it as a possibility. At that time I was really into meditation, lucid dreaming and astral projection.

For the last 5 years I've been a dedicated atheist. For the most part being for my strong respect and love of science and cosmology - believing absolutely nothing happens after "death". There may be a small flame that burns dimly inside that hopes that I'll go on in some form afterwards, but then again that seems egotistical. Am I the only one that feels that way?

It's important though to not rule out the possibility because that seems like a path to close-mindlessness.

I do agree about the energy transforming into something else, however. Will that energy be conscious, though? Reincarnation still seems a-bit unbelievable. The bit about a soul still connected to Earth taking over a new infant baby is definitely interesting, I must say.

Perhaps my atheist views aren't working anymore and making me realize that I may-be in contradictory with myself.

[GordianHyphae]

I agree with BucakrooBanzai, and to the question of whether the recycled and transformed energy will be conscious, it seems that, eventually, it must. Our bodies are composed of the same atoms as our ancestors. We're all a tiny part Shakespere, a little pinch of Bonaparte, and a whole hell of a lot of everyone else that's ever been. As Hippie3 said, God recycles. We are each of us composed of the entire universe, and this universe likes to be conscious. I don't think that when I die, "my" soul will waft off like a cartoon angel and be deposited into a baby walrus or something. But, even as i am living and breathing, "my" body is constantly incarnating and being reincarnated, a neverending flow of matter and energy between all that is and ever will be. Our perspective is finite, but it is a finite aspect of the infinite mind of God, or as Alan Watts would have it, the Supreme Identity. My soul is not mine, any more than the rivers are mine, or the force of gravity. Yet soul, river, and force are all one infinity, seeming finite only to my finite aspect. They are me. They are every "me", including you. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. But it sure does love to dance. The joy of infinity is expressed through the finite, as the universe (energy, god, all-that-is-forever) plays hide and seek with itself. How fun it is to be finite! To be separate, an individual, unique and full of desire and lust, here for the blink of the great eye to grow and be beautiful, to dance the dance that is ours alone. And how sorrowful, lonely, and terrifying, to have forgotten what we are! But the forgetting is the game; it is through separation that God knows love.
I say separation, but I believe that all separation is illusory, part of the adventure. Like how you forget that you're in a theater if the movie is really good.

gotta go. But about my use of the word God: i've never been a fan of god the Patriarch or lord of men. I do think that it is a beautiful word for all-that-is. I guess what i'm saying is, my god doesn't have a beard .

[P4ulada]

"conservation of energy"
Nice point of vision!

[nightflyer]

It's not a question of believe, it's a question of memory.

[Teonanacatl*38]

I don't believe in past lives, so much as I believe in parallel lives/existences. I believe that time is a linear construct (Point A - Point B) used for reference...yet essentially everything is circular (It all exists as One Whole that "IS" timelessly.) I feel that it's just as possible to experience a Past Life in the next run as it is to have one in the Future. Furthermore, I don't necessarily feel that we all have the same game-plan....and not all of us will even experience a Human/Earthly life next, but we may not even go on to a physical experience. Different strokes for different folks.
As for karma...same applies. Maybe for some, yet i feel that Grace transcends Karma...and once that shift occures in an individual, karma becomes kind of obsolete.
As to why we're here....i dont think you can box and lable it...and again it will probably be vastly different for each person/spirit.
One thing I'v learned is that the "I" that I'm experiencing in this life, does not represent me in my totality.
I am but 1 facet on a much larger gem that is ME...which in turn is one fact on an Incomprehensible Metta-Gem that is " It"
In the end, I think the Beatles had it right..." All you need is Love" (and love is neither always, nor often Pink Fuzzy Fairy Kisses) Love to me is more a state of consciousness, and less of an emotion.

[Om shanti]

The doctrine of reincarnation is also a description of the microcosmos of meditation. In this case there is no need for belief, since it is obviously "true", for anyone to observe for themselves, or to speak in more modern language, the model has a pretty good fit:
Consciousness constantly reincarnates into more or less subtle matter (which includes the mind), according to the "laws" of karma (following the imprints of the mind). When this is seen, according to the doctrine, the mind will become weary of this eternal cycle of reincarnation, thus weakening the karma, and gradually allowing the meditator to fix his gaze on consciousness itself, and avoid reincarnation for longer periods of time. In this final meditation it is then said to be possible to realize the "true" nature of the universe (consciousness).

As metaphor it's quite perfect IMO. But like all good metaphors has also been raped by many a self-proclaimed "enlightened" master in their quest for money and fame.

But I dont think I can believe the transmigration of individual souls after the death of the physical body. I don't think there is any evidence for that!

[Jordan86]

I believed that when you die, your energy gets passed on to other things, like the grass and whatever eats the grass. Circle of life sort of thing.

I don't believe that you become a dung beetle or something if you were a jerk before.

[bugs]

I'd like to think that reincarnation is real, but I suspect I'll have to wait and see.

As for conservation of energy, I'm not sure how that would apply. Energy can change in form, i.e. heat can become electricity can become mechanical, etc.

Also, the Law of Conservation of Energy doesn't apply beyond Newtonian physics. If it did, there would be no nuclear weapons.

Is the spirit or soul a form of energy? Or a manifestation of energy? Or something distinct from our concepts of matter, force and energy?