Casing Trays

[buggyboy]

What does everyone prefer? I seem to have success with everything but steel roasting pans. So far I prefer heavy duty foil oven trays because they are disposable, cheap and come in many shapes and sizes.

[Lazlo]

I use anything that holds substrate....lol

[bluehelix]

I have found that the best tray is a plastic 12-quart dish tray ($1 an Walmart) lined with foil on the inside. 12-quarts is a manageable tray size for multiple small trays so you don't break your back dealing with a single big tray. The foil lining is important because it allows the substrate to shrink, as it will after a high yield flush or two, and still keep the sides covered, preventing drying out and side pinning. For some reason the mycelium tends to bond to the foil, so it works surprisingly well. As one goes beyond the 100% biological efficiency mark after the first flush, the substrate shrinks from the sides of the container yet pulls the foil in with it, leaving an inch or two gap that, without the foil, would just dry out the entire substrate prematurely and reduce yield.

[Hippie3]

i started in glass,
moved to foil,
and have ended up in plastic.

[gema]

Originally Posted by bluehelix

I have found that the best tray is a plastic 12-quart dish tray ($1 an Walmart) lined with foil on the inside. 12-quarts is a manageable tray size for multiple small trays so you don't break your back dealing with a single big tray. The foil lining is important because it allows the substrate to shrink, as it will after a high yield flush or two, and still keep the sides covered, preventing drying out and side pinning. For some reason the mycelium tends to bond to the foil, so it works surprisingly well. As one goes beyond the 100% biological efficiency mark after the first flush, the substrate shrinks from the sides of the container yet pulls the foil in with it, leaving an inch or two gap that, without the foil, would just dry out the entire substrate prematurely and reduce yield.

foil inside plastic tray sounds like a good idea.

[the_chosen_one]

I had to vote other. I use anything I can get my hands on. Right now I can count at least 7 foil pans, 3 plastic, 1 ceramic and a great big animal cracker jar that not only serves as a pan but as a grow chamber .

[bluehelix]

Waylitjim, I wish I could take credit for that idea, but that was given to me by some of the old pros on "the other site". Attched is what that 12-quart container looks like with the foil in it. After the first flush, which was unusually heavy, I had about 2 inches of shrinkage the long dimension and about 1" the short. The foil followed most of that motion, and I pushed it snug the rest of the way myself. It works great.

[the_chosen_one]

Originally Posted by bluehelix

Waylitjim, I wish I could take credit for that idea, but that was given to me by some of the old pros on "the other site". Attched is what that 12-quart container looks like with the foil in it. After the first flush, which was unusually heavy, I had about 2 inches of shrinkage the long dimension and about 1" the short. The foil followed most of that motion, and I pushed it snug the rest of the way myself. It works great.

Very very nice bluehelix!!! I use tin foil the same way in my cookie jar and tubs.

Damn I'd shrink too if I had that many mushies sprouting out of me!

Strain?

[Beastmaster]

For some reason the mycelium tends to bond to the foil

I have observed this as well as the mycellium actually eating holes in the aluminum tray. This concerns me as I've come to understand that aluminum can cause deteriorating brain symptoms such as alzheimer's later in life. I personally don't want to eat mushrooms that have been chewing on aluminum foil.

I realize this is pretty unscientific, as I have no idea what happens to the chemical structure of the aluminum atoms/molecules in the mycellium. But the only time I ever used aluminum trays, I observed crystally blue holes growing in the sides of the trays, and the strain (B+) was very stunted, only a bunch of 2-3" dwarfs.

However, the shrinkage issue seems relevant, as the retention of moisture for later flushes is definately desirable.

On the other hand, I'd prefer to clean and reuse something than recycle or throw away after a use or two. The aluminum trays seem like a bitch to clean with all those little folds. So I have been using plastic trays, experimenting with various sizes of rubbermaid hi top containers, etc. I recently found a bunch of 1'x2'x3" black plastic trays at the garden store, they have them with holes in the bottom and without, also clear plastic lids of various heights. I think these are for starting seeds and cuttings and whatnot, but I'm betting they'll work pretty good. Looks like they'll fit perfectly on some indoor greenhouse shelves too.

[bluehelix]

That's my old standby, Ecuadorian (EQs). Of the strains I've tried, it give the most impressive first flush pinsets I've seen, and it's pretty potent to boot. You can get 90% of your yield out in the first flush with that strain if you try.

[bluehelix]

Beastmaster, the effects I talked about (i.e. the shrinking of the sides in with the tray) only happen if one uses a very thin layer of foil, preferably lining the inside of a plastic tray. A heavy foil tray does not offer the same benefit as lining the tray with foil.

Your concern about the foil implicated in Alzheimers is valid, but it's worth noting that foil has never been found as a causal factor to Alzheimer’s. Rather those with the disease often show elevated levels of aluminum in their brains. It very well could be that the plaques that develop in the brain simply are more conducive to aluminum accumulation for some reason.

Considering the wide number of things that contain aluminum that touch our food every day and release aluminum like pans and soda cans, I highly doubt the few ounces of magic mushrooms a heavy user might eat over the course of a year is going to introduce a significant amount of aluminum to their system. For example, many antacids contain aluminum hydroxide in quantities that could introduce grams of aluminum in a single day to one's system. In contrast, a tiny fraction of a single gram of aluminum entered the entire tray of mushrooms above that produced about 150 grams dried - that's 50 killer-strong 3-gram doses!

[Beastmaster]

cool, I'm not so sketched out about aluminum anymore now, thanks for the explanation!

[the_chosen_one]

Originally Posted by bluehelix

That's my old standby, Ecuadorian (EQs). Of the strains I've tried, it give the most impressive first flush pinsets I've seen, and it's pretty potent to boot. You can get 90% of your yield out in the first flush with that strain if you try.

Nice isolate! Never seen EQ fruit like that before!

[bluehelix]

Either had I. I was down on my luck when someone--sorry, I cannot reveal my source--sent me that isolate to cheer me up. I had no idea that it would fruit like that. I've always had great luck with EQs in the past, but this isolate is something a little beyond. The tray substrate was very hot (maybe upper 80s) when I picked them from the massive growth even though the fruiting chamber was only 75F.

[reefer]

"I have observed this as well as the mycellium actually eating holes in the aluminum tray."

This happens a lot in my trays. I think I'm gonna start using plastic cuz the mycelium is eating pretty big holes in the sides and bottom of the trays I use. (pretty thin aluminum) Sometimes a pin or two will sprout out of the holes in the sides, but the holes in the bottom put the mycelium in direct contact with the layer of perlite in my terrarium.

i like the black plastic gladware oven trays - aluminum eventually gets holes in it and must be thrown away, often after one use

[insight]

Grow in the aluminum trays, but trays into plastic tubs

[BuckarooBanzai]

OSHA guidelines for exposure to aluminum:
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/healthg...cognition.html

Quote:
* OSHA PEL The current Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) permissible exposure limit (PEL) for aluminum is 15 milligrams per cubic meter (mg/m(3)) of air for total dust, and 5 mg/m(3) for the respirable fraction, as an 8-hour time-weighted average (TWA) concentration [29 CFR 1910.1000, Table Z-1].

Quote:
There is some evidence that Alzheimer's disease may be linked to aluminum content in the body [Amdur et al. 1991]. Analysis of the aluminum content in the brains of persons dying from Alzheimer's have shown increased levels, although brain aluminum levels vary greatly. A second correlating factor is that neurofibrillary tangles (NFTs) have been identified in both aluminum encephalopathy and in Alzheimer's disease [Amdur et al. 1991]. However, it has been shown that the NFTs produced by the two conditions are structurally and chemically different and that NFTs are present in several other neurological disorders. It appears that the aluminum content of the brain is less an issue relating to exposure to aluminum than an issue of a blood-brain barrier defect or compromise of some kind.


I'm not certain how aluminum being consumed by the mycelia might affect growth, but I can tell you for certain you don't need to worry about negative effects from eating miniscule amounts of it.

I also prefer plastic, but make use of anything in the cupboard glass wise.

I like the glad ovenware also. Wish it was a tad deeper though. And I always make use of my leftover ice cream buckets

I don't like the foil pans because they aren't really sturdy and I don't like it when it eats holes thorough it.

[Hippie3]

I can tell you for certain you don't need to worry about negative effects from eating miniscule amounts of it.

i figure the doctrine of risk management teaches me
to avoid risks that can be avoided.
so glass/plastic seems better than aluminum on that basis alone.

[blackout]

I like plastic, cheap and easy to modify. It also floats in my tub of warm water.

You need an all of the above button.

I've also quit using aluminum for the reasons stated above. I noticed the holes in the aluminum looked like the mycelium was actually 'eating' the aluminum as there was no trace of the missing metal. According to Stamet's research, about the only contaminant present in the fruits that originates in the substrate is heavy metals. That and the alz connection was enough to scare me. I forget enough stuff already.
RR

[hogwild]

i use all kinds of containers mostly plastic some glass, but never metal. Especially not aluminum. I think RR covered that reason. Peace.

[bluehelix]

Funny how everyone believes plastic is so safe. I guess the oil companies have done a good job at brainwashing. Many plasticizers are carcinogenic. This is not a possible linkage like aluminum is with Alzheimer's either but a proven carcinogenic compound. Then again, half the folks here probably smoke pot or tobacco, again proven to cause brain damage (that includes forgetting) and lung cancer. I do admit, though, Alzheimer's is scary. I watched my grandfather forget his own wife and soon after forget how to beat his own heart.

[hogwild]

not saying plastic is any safer, just saying its not going to give me alzheimers, that we know of at least. And the plastic is still there after im done using it as a casing tray.... lol just let me feel safe

[reefer]

The main difference to me is that after using a plastic tray and washing it, it still looks new. The mycelium doesn't eat the plastic, so its not transferring anything to me. (at least thats what I'm telling myself)

Those thin foil trays look like swiss cheese after a sub sits in it for a while, that's scary.

[Spark]

i voted plaztic because thats what i'm using atm but you can use bags too.

[Pedestrian]

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

Cancel the aluminum. Making trash sucks for me and where I live. Plastic will last last you a lifetime. Better investment than something that falls apart after a few uses IMO.

[cap]

plastic, and its only used once i never was one for recycling...

[mycobri]

i have only used plastic so far

[cherkropper]

Next time I have a Tupperware party I'll have to remind the girls about what a great grow chamber the extra deep cake stacker makes if you put a few filtered vents in the lid.

[eastwood]

Plastic also. So many differant sizes and everyone Has plastic containers laying around..

[cheshire]

Originally Posted by bluehelix

I have found that the best tray is a plastic 12-quart dish tray ($1 an Walmart) lined with foil on the inside. 12-quarts is a manageable tray size for multiple small trays so you don't break your back dealing with a single big tray. The foil lining is important because it allows the substrate to shrink, as it will after a high yield flush or two, and still keep the sides covered, preventing drying out and side pinning. For some reason the mycelium tends to bond to the foil, so it works surprisingly well. As one goes beyond the 100% biological efficiency mark after the first flush, the substrate shrinks from the sides of the container yet pulls the foil in with it, leaving an inch or two gap that, without the foil, would just dry out the entire substrate prematurely and reduce yield.

i like, dunno why never thought of that seeing it shy away from the sides..

[TVCasualty]

Originally Posted by bluehelix

Funny how everyone believes plastic is so safe. I guess the oil companies have done a good job at brainwashing. Many plasticizers are carcinogenic. This is not a possible linkage like aluminum is with Alzheimer's either but a proven carcinogenic compound. Then again, half the folks here probably smoke pot or tobacco, again proven to cause brain damage (that includes forgetting) and lung cancer. I do admit, though, Alzheimer's is scary. I watched my grandfather forget his own wife and soon after forget how to beat his own heart.

Plastic is just the lesser of the current evils, and some types are more stable than others. It's probably a good idea to look closer at what our trays are made of, no matter which type we use. Glass or ceramic is breakable/heavy, plastic is petroleum-based, and aluminum is both OK and bad, depending on which study just came out. That new silicone bakeware stuff looks promising...

Some impurities found in aluminum include Cobalt, Nickel, Manganese, Silicon, Iron, and Copper. Just about all of these are gone by the time aluminum becomes food-grade foil (or a tray), but mushrooms are great at bioremediation partly due to their remarkable ability to hyper-accumulate heavy metals, in some cases up to thousands of times higher than background levels. Only copper is strictly-speaking a "heavy metal" in that list, but we can clearly see our aluminum trays being eaten, so fungi can apparently accumulate not-so-heavy metals also. That aluminum all went somewhere.

[floppypeter]

yummy

alumashrooms

must be popular with metalheads

[syrian rue]

Bought a couple alum trays with the plastic clear covers to use. When those are done (or maybe ill make some enchildas in them!) plastice does seem to be a better option- more rigid as well.
I think ill have to look for those old photo processor trays- nothing like a little fixer in the shrooms!

[chupbracabra]

Thanks, buggyboy!
I'm glad that there are posts like this.
They help in getting closer to a grow plan.

[kcmoxtractor]

Plastic here, the PP5 kind, just less mess and no myc eating aluminum. Glass is to expensive for me to buy a container to grow mushies.

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

I use anything that holds substrate....lol

I do prefer plastic - easy cleaning for reuse later.

[Getafix]

I use plastic Kitty Litter Trays, easy to clean and re-use.
When I started this Hobby i used anything and everything.

[GunPuppy]

I use the clear plastic tubs you find at the wal-mart or the dollar store.
After that I tape them so no light can get in the sides and give a good final spray down.

Being so cheap its disposable and it comes with an easy to use cover for the day or so you let it sit while the mycellium reestablishes itself.

I totally need to quit being so cheap though, they cost about 5$ for 6 of them, and I think reusing the casing trays is adding to contam issues I've had lately