Mescaline Reactions

[AfraidofAmerica]

Since we had a poll on the body's reaction to shrooms I wanted to conduct a similiar poll concerning mescaline use.

I personally have a terrible time with mescaline. My body just doesn't cope with that drug at all. I blow my guts out within 20 minutes. Boiling down the cactus and drinking the juice is bull shit, I'll leave that to the Tarahumara indians. But my buddy gave me some capsules and they wouldn't even stay down. 15 minutes later I puke out two half dissolved gelcaps. Something about those cactus alkaloids that initiate a rapid purge response.

Have any you expierenced this?

Peace
-AoA

[phalanx]

Does mescaline/san pedro cause much of a hangover for anyone? I was thinking of trying it next year. I don't mind sickiness during the trip but not feeling run down for a week afterwards (if that can happen).

I don't get really a hangover from mescaline, and I do get a little queasy even with just the mescaline and no cactus... Usually, a little pot, plus sitting still and relaxing for the first hour, will keep me from puking...

[grimblegrumble]

In my experience nausea is just part of the deal.
Usually it only lasts for the first 3-4 hours for me.
Then the rest of the ride is more than good.
No hangover for me, just tired the next day after tripping and being up for so long.

[elixir]

After eating a foot of San Pedro I had to lie down from mild nausea but that was the extent. The trip was wonderful too. Probably the most serene trip I've ever had.

Honestly the worst part of mescaline in my experience has been ingesting that revolting cactus but it is part of the ritual, so I didn't mind that much.

[polly ester]

i have only tired cacti, but i have never(knock on wood) gotten sick on mescaline. mushrooms are way worse in my opinion.
mainly it's hard to get that much plant material down. but once it's there, it's there.

[dead_diver]

I have only tried San Pedro once and it was a low dose, about 6oz or 3/4 of a coffee cup of nasty green slime. No body load and a nice mellow trip for me.

[Psychenaut]

I have found that aslong as I make a tea extraction. .well out of 2 or 3 extractions and then reduce it down to a quart or less and then take a big gulp fallowed by a fruity chaser (hehehehe) ever 10 mins or so. .so it's taken into me slowly. . by body seems to handle the transition into the trip very easily. No nausia at all.

Most of the time I hear people saying they have nausia after eating the actual fruit. I wonder if it might be due to a peticular protien in the fruit they can't handle. Just a guess....

[rocketman]

My experience is identical to pbees.

i'll have to agree with PB and rocket on this
one....sitting still and not being bothered is prolly
the bst thing you can do about the nauesia...
but other then that...mescaline is a great smooth intense
trip for me...

[elphstone]

Nausea is generally part of the mescaline experience. I started about 50 T. pachanoi from seed in 1972 and they reached 12 feet within about 10 years. I have boiled and swilled more cactus slime than you may care to imagine. I found that about 100g of dried cactus extracted 2x in a pressure cooker (the heat causes the alkaloids to go into solution better), then reduced to about 125ml is enough for the full spectrum of effects; however, there is definitely a 1 hour nausea phase if you do it on an empty stomach. I found that if I ate a couple slices of bread or a sandwich before dosing, the nausea was definitely reduced. We also tried shooting up the rectum as a way to bypass the nausea, but one can't absorb enough for a full-on trip this way and it also is irritating at the other end. Better just to steel your nerves and drink it down. Potency can also be significantly increased by pre-dosing with a small amount of harmaline (as Claudio Naranjo noted in this book, The Healing Journey; however, be very careful with this as it may also cause hypertension and possible stroke).

After years of swilling cactus slime, I finally met an elightened chemist who provided the pure hcl salt, only to find that I had the same nausea reaction to the pure compound as I did the cactus juice (though the powder is easier to get down initially!). On the other hand, we have also discovered that taking pure mescaline hcl and dissolving it into warm water and shooting it up the rectum does in fact bring on the full trip without the nausea.

I have not found mescaline to cause any significant hangover effect, though I am a little tired the next day. As I have aged, I have found it increasingly hard on the body and have lost the impetus to work with it at this point in time. The mushroom is far gentler, lacks that phenethylamine stimulant edge, and seems to take me much deeper than the mescaline can. Some people, however, seem to have quite an affinity for it.

Elphstone

I am preparing for a mescaline journey and this thread helps a lot!

Hopefully, sitting calmly and relaxing as PB and Rocketman suggest will be key, also, the eating a bit of bread tip is a good one for me as most psychedelics bring on low blood sugar for me most times so I usually have to eat before a trip. Crackers will probably work well too and digest a bit quicker than bread.
What advice can be given as far as ingesting a tea slurry. Mentioned by someone above was that they drink it slowly and chase it with another "fruity" drink. So can I do say shots of my slurry, and chase them over say a period of an hour? Or does the mescaline have to be ingested in a significant dose in say a 15 minute time period, or a half hour time period? I'm sure thats better than taking an hour to ingest it, but just wondering from those with experience with mescaline doses.

Also, Elphstone, Shooting mesc up the rectum???? A mescaline enema is something I never thought I'd read about, lol. A little more info on your pressure cooker method would be greatly appreciated!

My cactii is chopped and dried so I'm not sure quite how I should make a good tea slurry with it. Rocketman gave me a great tea recipe, but I was stooooopid and didn't write it down lol.

Freak, I suggest something with citrus to chase, cause the syrup is the most god awful bitter concoction you may ever sample... And no matter how bad you wanna puke you gotta hold it down for at least 2 hours before you are gonna get the full effect IME...

damn...2 hours pb...never lasted that
long for me..LOL

I mean if you want all the 'magic' from the cacti to absorb, a good two hours should ensure most is absorbed.. I always got mild trips when I puked before the 60-90 min mark...

[elphstone]

Freakachino,

It is generally a good idea to sip the extract slowly over a half hour, which lessens the nausea component. The whole dose at once can be very intense on the stomach.

As for the pressure cooker extraction, use the whole sliced cactus (easier to strain). If its already powdered, you can strain it through a colander with a cheesecloth or an old t-shirt (the latter works better). If you're doing 100g, put about 2 liters of water in the pressure cooker and bring it to 15 lb. and hold it there for about a half hour. I recommend 2 liters because (the cactus will absorb about a liter of water. Turn off the heat and let it cool enough to open the stopcock( when the pressure hits about 5 lb. you can open up the stopcock if you're in a hurry). Strain and save the solution. (I use rubber dishwashing gloves to avoid getting scorched and squeeze the cactus mash). At this point, most of the alkaloids are in the solution, but to be sure you have all the goods, you can add another liter of water and repeat the process.

Once done with the second extraction, toss the cactus mash and then combine the extracts into one pot and CAREFULLY boil it down to about 1 or 1/2 cup. I have found that getting it down to 1/2 cup makes it viscous, a little thinner than honey. T. pachanoi has a heavy slime component to it and this, in part, is what makes it so difficult to get down. (Although some people skin the cactus and use just what's under the skin for the extraction, I have had a little problem using this approach for a couple of reasons. First, having took 10 years to grow them out, I am loth to waste any of it. Second, I am sure there are some traces of alkaloid throughout the flesh and I want to be sure that I get all of it). You have to be very mindful when you have boiled off enough of the solution so that there are about 2 cups of extract left because if you get distracted and cook off too much water, you can easily burn the material, making it useless (I have had this experience once and it was a very disappointing end to 10+ years of growing and hours of labor). Patience and a watchful eye are necessary as the solution reduces.

Whether you get it down to 1 cup or 1/2 cup, its just plain awful trying to get it down. I always adopt the attitude of the Native American Church, which is the taste reflects the state of my soul and indicates the journey will be very healing and transformative. Getting through the taste is a test of one's strength of character, a necessary part of the experience of a deep shamanic voyage. Those lacking the courage to deal with it would do better to avoid it altogether. I also view the taste of the cactus as representing years of the magical and sacred plant storing energy direct from the sun: of course, its concentrated and intense. Unlike the mushroom, mescaline is a material that lends itself to boosting with another dose, which increases and prolongs the effects. I have also found that getting the dose high enough is essential for a deep experience. Once I had access to the pure alkaloid in hcl form, I was surprised to learn that the experience I would get from 100g (dry weight) of the San Pedro cactus that I had grown out from seed was equivalent to about 500mg of the hcl salt. There is an excellent summary of dosage information on the Erowid website:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mesc...ine_dose.shtml

and

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mesc...emistry1.shtml

Regarding the relative concentrations of alkaloids in Trichocereus pachanoi
and Trichocereus peruvianus:

1) Crosby, D.M. & McLaughlin, J.L. (1973). Cactus alkaloids. XIX.
Crystallization of Mescaline HCL and 3-Methoxytyramine HCL from
Trichocereus pachanoi. Lloydia, VOl 36, No. 4.

2) Pardanani, J.H., McLaughlin, J.L., Kondrat, R.W., & Cooks, R.G. (1977).
Cactus Alkaloids. XXXVI. Mescaline and Related Compounds from
Trichocereus peruvianus. Lloydia, Vol 40., No. 6, pp. 585-590.

In the former article, a concentration of 0.331% mescaline base was obtained
from freeze-dried Trichocereus pachanoi. Note that the sulfate salt has
a heavier weight and requires 300-500 mg for a full dose; the hydrochloride
salt is less heavy and requires 225-375 mg for a full dose; the free base
requires 205-343 mg for a full dose. Thus, a full dose of T. pachanoi would
be 57-96 grams, dry weight.

In the latter article, a concentration of 0.82% mescaline base was obtained.
Thus, Trichocereus peruvianus analyzed by these authors was somewhat less
than three times as potent as the T. pachanoi. The effective dose of
T. peruvianus would thus be 25-42 grams of the dried cactus.

The cacti that I grew out were obtained from New Mexico Cactus Research in 1972. I found that 100g of the cactus was definitely stronger than 500mg of the hcl salt, suggesting a somewhat higher concentration of alkaloids in the cacti I had than the .331% found by Crosby and McLaughlin. I have heard that T. bridgesii (the monstrosa, variagated variety) is equivalent in mescaline content to peyote (though I haven't checked that out personally, I have talked with some friends who support the claim).

I wish you great good luck on your journey with the cactus! May your jouney open your heart and bring healing and light to you, your family, and your society.

Elphstone

[phalanx]

Great post, elphstone. I'm tempted to shout "archive material"!

i kinda like the purge myself . reminds me off puking off dulidid or morphine . the high seems to come on while im puking as if my soul rinsed itself off and the by-product came out my mouth . if i dont puke i know i didnt eat enough . ive only been able to get peyote and mesc . so im not so sure i could get down as much of the san pedro as the peyote/mesc. anyone remeber the choclate mesc? tasted like nes-quick coming back up .good stuff . myself i like the mda and 2-cb more then mesc . they feel a lot alike to me , i can just do a wider range of expeiernces then mesc . on mesc i cant leave my comfort zone and hit the movies or musuem . come to think of it i cant seem to enjoy myself in public on any of the natural pschedelics .
later VII

chocolate mescaline?

[elphstone]

The chocolate mescaline I sampled was generally on a small brown pill and undoubtedly plain old LSD, too small an amount of material to possibly be mescaline. That was back in 1972....

Elphstone

[Psychenaut]

Oh yes a chaser is a very good idea. It's a bitter, in many cases warm pissy flavour . .that just isn't all that special.

Come to think of it, because I do my dose in a series of large gulps space about 10 mins apart, in turn I come on slow and I come down slow, I end up sitting there while I wait or each gulping session. .so the sitting still thing just might help with the nausia no effecting me.. I'd never thought about that. Still Mescaline is a wonderfull substance that is worth atleast a try by any serious psychonaut. .most people I've talked to, including me haha.... have come to embrace mescaline as one of the favorite psyches.

I hope you enjoy the ride, maybe get a little something from it soul-wise. .while your at it

[Psychenaut]

Chocolate Mescaline sounds sorta like the wives tale of Micro dot being mescaline rumor too. It's just to sweet and tiny to be anything but an analoge of Lysergic acid. . but knowing that won't stop the force of such rumors of corse. . heh

this was not a little tablet and you needed 2 or 3 large double o gel tabs . they where simply flavored/cut so when you puked it tasted like chocolate and probly to add some wght to there product so they could make a couple more bucks . this was just a bacth that had been cut with nesquik . there where shards of fine glass looking needle type things in each cap brownish from the nesquik .its hard to describe what this stuff looked like . it was real popular when i was in high school . anything in dots or tablets is most likly 2-cb,,dob . phikal anologs of one kind or another .mesc isnt active at the wgt that tabs and dots size allows. i just fegured with it being the rarest of all psyhedalics that others whould have seen it cut with nes-quik . this stuff was 25$ per capsule with each one having .5 g of the shards in it. with a dose id take 2-3 capsules .
later VII

[TVCasualty]

Back in the early 90's I got some little microdot things that were supposed to be mesc. They tasted like pipe tobacco (pleasantly, actually) and we laughed for hours, but looking back I know they weren't real mesc. Whatever they were, they were fun.

Anyhow, since I lived in Arizona for a long time many years ago I've had lots of San Pedro. It's growing in huge clumps in many yards as an ornamental. I just walked to my neighbors yard which had more than I could haul off with a truck and got me some tips (I had permission!) and did the PC extraction as above, except I reduced the volume down to a shot glass per dose. Real intense, black, thick, nasty shit. Then my breakthrough: I started taking them like tequila shots. Salt and lime, same deal, works GREAT. Also, DO NOT breathe through your nose AT ALL throughout the whole shot until after chomping the lime (and I also chase w/ grapefruit juice). I recommend a stomach buffer with this method. Highly recommend.

I also had the good fortune of sitting in on a peyote ceremony on the Rez once; over twelve hours in the tipi with one break...what a trip. Felt like I was part of something ancient and immense with the fire and prayers and songs and emotional outpouring. Chewing those buttons and washing them down with peyote tea was horrible, but that is soon forgotten. After that, mushrooms taste like dessert.

TVC

[BuckarooBanzai]

I gotta go with Sev on this one. If I don't do the technicolor yawn with mescaline, I clearly haven't eaten enough. Same thing with Ayahuasca. If I ain't pukin' good at the beginning, I ain't gonna be trippin' good at the end.

Gulp it down, chase, rinse the mouth...now sit quietly and think good thoughts. When the pressure gets to be too much, vent. Once you are done, you'll be flying.

Sev - you pointing out the similarity to the narcotic hurl is an interesting point I never really thought about before. It really is a similar kind of thing, though. I don't mind the rising nausea and intense vomiting becaue I know what those feelings are leading too! One of my favorite parts of good narcotics is pulling back from the bowl, stomach empty, with the warm sunshine island floating up in my head...

It's like gnawing some strong blotter with that light gag reflex taste. It's gnarly, but you know (as Martha says) "it's a good thing!"

Two thumbs WAY up to TVC's "shoot it like tequila" advice. HOLD YOUR NOSE THE WHOLE TIME!!! Almost all taste has an olfactory component, but this is especially true of most bad tastes. You can pound the worst bathtub gin in the world if you don't let the fumes get into your sinuses.

Personally, I would rather drink two foul cups than half a slimy foul cup, though. Slimy textures in consumables really get to me...

Thanks for all this info!!! It helps a lot! I'm readying myself for this spiritual journey as that is the best way for me to enjoy it fully. I want to understand as much as I can about it so I can get the most out of it. This all helps so much.
I'll be sure to write up the experience I have so it can be shared, from the preperation to the come down

[condo_pygmy]

I did chocolate mesc back in the early 70's, they were large brown tabs & it took 2-3 hours to feel it,
lasted well over 12 hrs, defiently wasn't acid !!
the windowpane acid was going around then, you could tell the difference.

[BuckarooBanzai]

If you are going full on spiritual dose, I would suggest additionally...

Crackers/bread/cooked grain, smallish serving, 1-2 hours before with 3-4 soy lecithin capsules. Very good idea. This will buffer your nausea response and give you just a little substance to void later on. I always seem to sick easier and longer on an extensive fasting/liquid only diet.

For me, preparing for a spiritual journey with cactus is: light dinner, good night's sleep, bowl of slightly salty grits with lecithin, mondo bong rips, yoga/mental prep, dose and repeat.

The longer you can hold in those cactus squeezins, the more poison they will absorb and the more magic you will absorb. When you void, you will void more psychological detrius if you have quietly tolerated two hours of nausea. If you aren't into digging on/accepting the nausea, MJ can help a LOT.

The process of vomiting becomes almost orgasmic in the level of physical and spiritual release, after holding it in so long. You have a lot of physical, mental, spiritual and placebo affects going on. All of it is part of the experience, even the gnarly stuff. Some would say especially the gnarly stuff.

Once your stomach is empty and you roll back on your heels and wipe your mouth...then the real fun starts...then you'll understand why somebody would make themselves this nauseous on purpose...more than once! And mushrooms will never taste anywhere near as bad again.
Then you'll start growing cactus, too!!!

I await your experience report with baited breath!

[dead_diver]

The only tab I ever did that I think was mesc were the strawberry barrels back in the 70's. You couldn't mistake these for microdots. They were at least the size of a pencil eraser, maybe a little bigger. I remember getting a noticeable greenish/brown color shift to my vision at night. Good acid would give me a bluish/purple color shift at night. It was similar in effect to acid but different if you know what I'm saying. Like acid is similar to shrooms but different. I have yet to experince upset stomache from mesc but both times were mild doses. The second time I tried it it was in a slimy green San Pedro syrup scooped out of a pot in a dirt floor hut. It didn't taste too bad but the texture was nasty. Had fun the rest of the night partying with friends in the Zona Rosa

[agentstone]

Cant wait to try it!

[Hippie3]

the taste aside
mescalito is just a bit too speedy for my taste.
nice trip but
my heart races and my mouth gets dry.


archive material
[copy less poll]

[nepenthes_ak]

Seeing as over half the voters, say that Mescline (cacti) say that its hard to keep down, and i havent had it, (i wish i could s