Japan considers first-strike against n.korea

[Hippie3]

TOKYO - Japan said Monday it was considering whether a pre-emptive strike on the North's missile bases would violate its constitution, signaling a hardening stance ahead of a possible U.N. Security Council vote on Tokyo's proposal for sanctions against the regime.

Japan was badly rattled by North Korea's missile tests last week and several government officials openly discussed whether the country ought to take steps to better defend itself, including setting up the legal framework to allow Tokyo to launch a pre-emptive strike against Northern missile sites.

"If we accept that there is no other option to prevent an attack ... there is the view that attacking the launch base of the guided missiles is within the constitutional right of self-defense. We need to deepen discussion," Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said.

seem that america and israel aren't the only major powers
that believe that
some threats
justify preemptive action

[mycobri]

wow. Lets just hope no missles are launched at all.

[rocketman]

It seems like sabre rattling at this point, but it is good to see someone stand up to those crazy bastards.....other than us or the UK. The North Koreans pose a large threat only if backed by China and Russia militarily. The Korean war would have been over much much sooner if the Chinese did not think Macarther was going to invade them.

Prior to ww2 the Japanese occupied Korea, and during this time they caused much death and pain to the Koreans. Raping women at will, killing whoever they wanted. If I am not mistaken they occupied China as well. Anyhow, there has been bad blood between them for years. I know most of you know this already, but a bit of history never hurts. Hip, if I got any of the history wrong please feel free to let me know.

[Bobcat]

Whoa, I didn't know that rocketman. Craziness through time. Hopefully it all settles down at least for now.

Conspiracy theory: Isn't it true that a while ago iran and nk was having secretive talks? Then Iran started pushing the envelope so to speak. THen korea started to do the same- only to actually test out some missiles after it seemed we were settling with iran diplomatically? Possible they are trying to get someone to strike first as a part of a plan? Perhaps others involved or something up their sleeve? Hopefully thats just a dumb idea on my part!!!

[rocketman]

All of Korea wants reunification. The North knows that without us in the way they could invade the south and make a larger communist state. The south also wants ONE Korea, but not at the cost of communism. When the line was drawn after the war, the Koreans were seperated from each other, families split and havent seen each other since. Much like Berlin. The north is the 5th largest military in the world, and hate for Americans is a total understatement. They are taught from a young age that their leader is a god, and he does no wrong. Cut off from any real media they are totally brainwashed, and imo they pose a huge threat to their peaceful neighbors. I believe Japan is sabre rattling to draw more attention from China, whom the Japanese hope will put a leash on N. Korea, one of their only allies. I dont believe China wants a war, hell everything we have is made in China. It would devestate their economy. The last thing they want is any trade embargos.

[siam_jim]

damn thats too close to home. front row seat again. however i don't think japan will strike, they are too peaceful these days.


siam

[Hippie3]

i'm not so sure.

the japanese have damn good reason to take
nuclear bombing threats
very seriously.
they of all nations alone know
how it feels to lose a city to an atomic bomb.

now n.korea fires 7 missiles in its' general direction,
last time they fired one right over japan.
and they are building more nukes every day

japan must feel very exposed
as it has never really re-armed
after its' defeat in WW2.
it is not immediate threat to n.korea
but it would not take long for japan
to deploy its' own nuclear-tipped missiles
should they decide the situation requires
deterrence

[siam_jim]

them testy NK ,,, would get anybody's blood going, could be right. can only tease so far till it bites.

siam

[Hippie3]

i suspect japan is more posturing for china's benefit
than it's actually threatening n.korea
i think japan figures that china would not want to see a
nuclear japan
and so would reign in n.korea
even taiwan is making noises about
possibly going nuclear
which would really annoy the chinese.
if things de-stabilize like that
wouldn't be long before other nations in the area
also went nuclear- australia and indonesia seem likely candidates,
perhaps even the philippines

[robman1]

North Koreans are taught that the reason they have shortages on food and supplies all the time is because the US destroys their supply ships.

Little do they know that all the resources and money that the government is getting is being used for nukes and missles.


also... did anyone notice the name of that missle was no dong....?

Who is ganna be afraid of a missle named no dong. They shoulda thought a little harder than that.

[Hippie3]

[alpiner]

but fomidable military
they have a Navy that is on par with ours because all their ships have all the same weapons systems but it's just way smaller
a friend of mine who worked for the USMC trained with a bunch of japanese and says that they are better trained by a long shot better than most people in any arm of the US miltary
if Japan does get attacked it will be a US war anyway though since that was one of the terms of their disarment

[alpiner]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i'm not so sure.

japan must feel very exposed
as it has never really re-armed
after its' defeat in WW2.
it is not immediate threat to n.korea
but it would not take long for japan
to deploy its' own nuclear-tipped missiles
should they decide the situation requires
deterrence

Japan's military is larger than that of the UK and they also trump them on spending
many of the missiles launched into afganistan were fired from japanese ships that did the targeting but the actual launching was done by remote control from a american ship, the japanese ships have AEGIS just like ours so it allows them to do nifty things like that since if the japanese made the decision to launch the missile it would violate their constitution

honestly, Japan if they up and decided to change their rules due to a imminant threat they could be real formidable and no one in the region other than china could really stand up to them
it would probably only take a few years to go from a primarily defense oriented force to a very strong military that could be as effective as their old imperial military was in the 30s

[Dr. Herbani]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i suspect japan is more posturing for china's benefit
than it's actually threatening n.korea
i think japan figures that china would not want to see a
nuclear japan
and so would reign in n.korea
even taiwan is making noises about
possibly going nuclear
which would really annoy the chinese.
if things de-stabilize like that
wouldn't be long before other nations in the area
also went nuclear- australia and indonesia seem likely candidates,
perhaps even the philippines

if taiwan goes nuclear, china will invade, we will defend taiwan and that will be all she wrote...we are living in interesting times...wait till peak oil hits(hums r.e.m song "its the end of the world as we know it")

[Hippie3]

i don't think china could win an invasion of taiwan.
sure, they could nuke taiwan, destroy it
but that's not what they want,
they seek re-unification, they want an intact taiwan
not a charred cinder worthless to anyone for next 10,000 years.
and without the nuclear option
the chinese would be very hard pressed to deliver an assault force
onto taiwan large enough to defeat the entrenched taiwanese,
esp. if america and its' allies help taiwan.
that's one war that won't be fought, in my opinion.
and i don't think n.korea will attack either.

[rocketman]

i may have mentioned this in another post, but i was watching a discovery times special on N. Korea. There were actual propaganda posters showing American missionaries eating NK children. stories like this are common over there.

in my opinion, as more of the old hardcore communist chinese die off they will be replaced by a more materialistic breed, doing whatever is necessary to maintain their place in the wto. n. korea on the other hand, will maintain the hatred and seclusion until something eventually breaks. if the u.s. could get the backing of china and russia, or at least the promise of not joining up with them. we would bitchslap them back to their pre nuke status. it may happen.

[SharkieJones]

I think it's time that any military bans on Japan be lifted. With all the Japanese technology I'm sure they could make some wonderful smart weaponry. I'm also sick of N.Korea and their posturing and threats, It's time someone put them into their place, If it's Japan then so be it.
Also a double standard here, if Iran were making the same threats and lobbing missles over Israel you better believe that they would be a slag heap quick. So why do we constantly put up with bullshit from N. Korea? Time for some consistency if you ask me.

[pskovinsky]

If i remember correctly japan has the second largest military budget in the world.
Second of course, to the USA. The US has been pushing them to spend more and more over the years, probably because japan is about it for large(ish) non-communist countries in that area.


Japan has been attacking korea for hundreds of years (thousands, really, pretty much as far back as japanese history goes, they've been attacking korea), i wouldn't be terribly surprised if they did now.

I believe that the limiting treaty (which stated that they can not start a war, but didn't say anything about building a military) ran out within the last year or two.
That doesn't count their constitution of course.

[Hippie3]

we put up with n.korea's shit
because of the simple fact that
they have enough artillery dug in within range of seoul
to kill hundreds of thousands of south koreans
and no one could stop them from doing so.

[jay be killin em]

Fucking sweet thread guys.
Very informational.

[suckerfree]

Originally Posted by rocketman

There were actual propaganda posters showing American missionaries eating NK children. .

.

hehe, i want my enemies to think i might eat their children.

[Bromius]

I hear they're pretty good with a little kim chee. The adults are a little tough though, being chronically malnourished and everything.

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by alpiner

Japan's military is larger than that of the UK and they also trump them on spending

where do you get your information ?

see
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...pan/budget.htm

Japan’s defense spending in reality is at about the same level with those of South Korea and Taiwan.

[SharkieJones]

Japan has no ballistic missle capabilty so how would they preform the strike?

[Hippie3]

they have fighter aircraft like F-18s that could strike

[rocketman]

hips right with why we put up with them. they interviewed a korean military advisor and he said, and im paraphrashing. if america fucks with us we will turn the south to fire and ash.

the north knows its trump cards.

[Hippie3]

of course that might not deter japan,
that artillery can't hit tokyo

[SharkieJones]

Go Japan. Although the south is upset at this latest Japanese threat.

[muddz]

I found this little bit ago while going through some news sites...about covert operation already happening dunno if it 100% accurate but couple news agency's are reporting it... http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...08-601,00.html
and here is another thing i found on that subject which is interesting read...
http://newsblaze.com/story/200607091.../Opinions.html

[alpiner]

The US Department of Defense has estimated US military spending for 2004 at about $390 billion, rising to $400 billion in 2005. The recent war on Iraq is expected to cost the United States more than $150 billion; by contrast, the 1991 Gulf War cost about $61 billion.

Japan, the world's second-largest military spender, is far behind the United States with an annual defense budget of $49 billion, followed by the United Kingdom with $36 billion. The top five spenders - the US, Japan, the UK, France and China - account for about 62 percent of total world military expenditure.

According to the SIPRI Yearbook, the United States now accounts for 43 percent of world military expenditure.
pulled from: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_.../EF19Dj02.html

With nearly 240,000 military personnel and an annual budget of close to $50 billion, Japan's military outstrips Britain's in total spending and manpower, while its navy in particular scores high among experts for its sophistication.
that is from here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../japan/jda.htm
read the first line

[Hippie3]

heh,
like we really know how much the chinese are spending

[CY81N]

All we know is that we owe them 800 billion dollars.