so i finally watched fahrenheit 911

[Hippie3]

got bored,
noticed it was on pay-per-view
so i forked out four bucks,
watched it
and now i want my money back.
i was very disappointed frankly,
i had expected much more.
hell i could have done a better job
of putting together a factual rational critique
of bush.
but not that,
hell even if i hated bush
the flick still blows,
the long musical interludes of scenes
parading by in an effort to make me
feel the feeling he wants.
so much inneundo,
so much rank speculation,
guilt by association
and plain out fabrication or distortion.
i really did expect more
and i can only say
i'm very disappointed.
i want me $3.95 back.

[taoistshredder]

Usually I at least understand Moore's rhetoric; in F911 it was just so blatant, arbitrary, and stupid that the only person left looking dumber than Bush is Michael. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot with that scene from the first election, when Bush tells Moore to get a real job; as soon as the viewer sees that, they know that this whole thing is just Michael Moore flinging bullshit over some retarded vendetta (which is actually from when he tried to get Bush to get in a moshpit).

[Hippie3]

in F911 it was just so blatant, arbitrary, and stupid that the only person left looking dumber than Bush is Michael

i got the impression that Mr. Moore just kind of assumed that folks already hated bush and so he didn't see much reason to go to any great effort to assemble a real case.
but even given that
i just think he did a lousy job as a director too,
the cheesy scenes of the kids playing
followed by the shock and awe explosions
lack the emotional impact
of showing real dead burnt babies.
i mean, if you're gonna grind an axe,
grind that damn thing sharp.
he fell short in his delivery of the
gut-wrenching emotional impact of war.
he could have made every one of us weep
with the right series of photos
but he left me dry.
i felt more stirred inside last night
as i watched some young men from dog company, south baghdad,
bury one of their fallen.
i felt their pain,
his film lacked that pain.
i do not see how any one entertained the notion
even for a moment
that his film was worthy of any awards let alone an oscar.
to give an award to this film
would only be making a polititical statement,
not any artistic one.

[sinthetic]

seen bowling for columbine? having friends from said school, the movie did a horrid job of portraying what happend, but did a wonderful job of spreading moore's anti-gun propoganda.

[Hippie3]

no, haven't seen that one.
proly never will
now that i've seen his work.
i consider myself a fair-minded rational man,
that's why i watched the film,
i wanted to hear what he had to say.
i heard it,
and i'm not impressed.
he could and should
have done a better job.
no wonder bush won.

[sinthetic]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

no, haven't seen that one.
proly never will
now that i've seen his work.
i consider myself a fair-minded rational man,
that's why i watched the film,
i wanted to hear what he had to say.
i heard it,
and i'm not impressed.
he could and should
have done a better job.
no wonder bush won.

i do salute mr moore on his ability to draw attention and make people think. Even though I disagree with some of the things he says, and sometimes I belive he is pushing his own oppinions as truth, I will listen to him [his movies] with an open mind.

[Hippie3]

i can't say as he made me think,
if by that you mean
critical thought.
i felt his approach was in fact
utterly opposite.
i feel that he attempted to bypass
the critical thought process
and was aiming more for the
gut reaction, the knee-jerk reaction.
and that's where i think he fell short,
on both counts.
i could pick about a dozen directors
who could have made a better movie
on the same subject.

[jbaggs1]

Hey Hippie, If moore didn't make you think..what is all the critigue of this movie you've written. I never seen Fer-911 because it's just propagada put out by those rich enough to figure that thier opinions are better and you should believe because they said. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Moore feels that he kows whats right and everyone should agree with him. I too did not and will not watch this propaganda bullshit. I don't listen to Demacratic crap or rebublican crap. It's always skewed to whoever wrote the opinion anyway.

[Hippie3]

i'm critiquing him on style,
not content.
i don't need to give much thought to the content
as there's very little i haven't already heard.
what i was loking for was the
impact, the feeling, the art, theater.
sadly lacking.
i'm afraid i'm just not the kind of guy
that thinks the way moore thinks,
i saw the implications,
i know what he wanted me to infer,
but that's not really thinking is it ?
i felt like he was a trainer holding
out a hoop for me to jump thru,
that's how clumsy and blatant
his attempts were.
hence my criticism on artistry, his ability as a director,
not his facts
which were also sadly lacking.

[sinthetic]

impact, the feeling, the art, theater.
sadly lacking.

agreed.

[Lazlo]

Dito that! Although i thought the shots of Bush playing golf were rather amusing. "I call for all nations to join us on The War on Terror. They will be defeated. Now exuse me while i hit this drive." What a MOORON!

[Lefty]

I agree Hip, it was a slanted, shallow, transparent attempt to direct a conclusion. Bowling for Columbine was the same crap, different topic. In part of his rant he actually walks into a strangers home. If he'd have woke up a Rottweiler & they left THAT footage in I'd buy the movie.

[I_am_me]

Bowling from Columbine wasn't even about "spreading moore's anti-gun propoganda". Moore owns guns, was raised with guns and even went as far in the movie to visit Canada and point out the fact that it wasn't gun ownership which was the problem.

If you think it was simply anti-gun propaganda you missed the whole point of the movie completely. It was more focused on the American media and the fear it creates within the public which is tied to our actions which is amplified by our lax gun laws.

[I_am_me]

Heheheh any I never watched F 9/11 and I have no real desire to. I'll save my 4 bucks.

Its easy enough for me to dislike Bush based on facts I've already seen proven.

[vrooota]

Originally Posted by I_am_me

Heheheh any I never watched F 9/11 and I have no real desire to. I'll save my 4 bucks.

Its easy enough for me to dislike Bush based on facts I've already seen proven.

Same here; no movie needed

[destroy_erase_improve]

i watched both movies, found some parts to be true and others to be propoganda. i enjoyed some parts and found it hard to make it through the drag of others. but i dont agree that it was all b.s.
thats not what i got out of it

[Hippie3]

I'll save my 4 bucks

good idea

[Bromius]

I think if you are going to try and make a case against a group of dishonest politicians you need to be as honest as possible. Mr. Moore used many of the same tactics as those he is accusing. He's just on the opposite side of the "spectrum". I'd equate him with someone like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity on the other side. He makes a lot of money regardless of whether he tells the truth or not. Hippie was right when he said that Moore was just capitalizing off the existing hatred out there for Bush.

Personally I thought the appeals to my emotions were corny and transparent. The only part I think had any merit is when he showed some of the people disfigured by the war. War is messy, and people should see that.

I'm NOT a Bush fan. If he were to resign tomorrow the Bacchanal that would ensue at my place would lack historical precident. However, I think more did a lousy job of making a coherent case or getting any closer to the truth. With the kind of exposure he had, he could have done a lot more for the cause he supposedly represents.

The thing about Bowling for Columbine, if any of it was true, was that it showed many other civilized nations that allow gun ownership, yet the murder rates were staggeringly lower than America's. Also, he tries to give an idea of why... The concept that I am me's post talks about is the only thing I really remember about the movie, nothing really about columbine...

[viraljimmy]

Alex Jones' 911 movie is better,
but Moore's was entertaining.

LOL at knocking a guy who made over a hundred million bucks on the film. I wish I could make a cool hundred million dollars in less than one year so everybody could mock me...

[Hippie3]

few seem to have trouble mocking other rich men,
like bush.
it is no proof of a noble spirit,
or really even of talent
in these days of media-driven marketing.
folks went to see moore's movie
not because it was good
which it wasn't.
rather they went for a political reason.
so if raising money for political purposes
is the standard by which we should judge,
then we should all follow the republicans
to the cashier's office.
moore's just bush-league,
so to speak.

[taoistshredder]

And I'll really really mock a rich man who got rich off a war on terror that his fat ass gets on camera and complains about. What a douchebag. Moore is a wanker - he reminds me of a certain political party right now - complain and bitch and ask questions but don't offer any solutions. Bowling for Columbine made me notice some things I hadn't before, but it didn't tell me WHY our country is so fucked up, just that it was fucked up, and I already knew that. The more I watch Moore, I see that he has some of the worst rhetoric out there. I'd rather listen to Dick Cheney's bullshit, at least he has skills. I get so frustrated with people like Greenpeace and PETA who talk so much shit about peace and understanding but use fear-based propogandha just like their governmental counterparts; Moore put himself of this pedestool of "I'm helping to free the common man" when really all he's doing is further help oppress it - instead of spreading truth he spreads "truth," just like his governmental counterparts, which just makes every American with a brain want to kick him in the nuts. Especially after we paid him $3-10 to watch him do it. Michael Moore is like the ubersellout.

[Hippie3]

at least he has skills

i guess that's kinda my point, too.
skill, elegance.

I get so frustrated with people like Greenpeace and PETA who talk so much shit about peace and understanding but use fear-based propogandha just like their governmental counterparts

another pet peeve of mine, too.
i figure the side of truth and light
should use truth and light
to win arguments
not resort to the same tactics
as their enemies.

[dukex]

I tried to watch it but I couldnt get through it, horrible movie. I remember being at General Motors talking with some techs about it and they think he is GOD for taking on Rodger Smith. I got the feeling that they believe every word that has come out of his mouth. That he cares moore about them and there familys than they do. Very strange to me.

I also watched the FarenHype 911 they did a good job counter pointing it.
If anyone wants to see this I will ship my original DVD to you just PM me.

Peace...

It's funny how the right wingers pretend that moore tried to make bush look stupid. All you have to do is watch, and bush makes himself look stupid. Where moore got all that footage, I'll never know, but he deserves the oscar just for locating it...he he he.

quote:
"we should all follow the republicans
to the cashier's office."

Better check again. Our side actually collected more money this time, and we'll do it again next time. The republicans get all the big money from corporations, but the dems get $10 and $15 a month from many millions of folks, myself included. It just goes to show that standing on your bible in a southern trailer park buys more votes than standing on the issues. Sad but true. However, if that's what it takes to win, I'm glad our side lost. I'll stand on my principles any day.

[Hippie3]

It just goes to show that standing on your bible in a southern trailer park buys more votes than standing on the issues. Sad but true. However, if that's what it takes to win, I'm glad our side lost. I'll stand on my principles any day.

people who live in trailor parks
for the most part
don't even vote.
how can one claim to stand on principle
in the same paragraph with such
a distorted description of the people
who put bush in office ?
again you blame the south
but wasn't ohio, proud member of the Union,
the state that gave bush the win ?
until the dems can see their enemy
as he truly is
and loses the sterotypes
i think failure will pursue them.

Not true. Ohio was just another of 50 states. Their state was simply the last close one on election night. Sad but true.

By the way, I'm only a dem because I see reality. I would dearly love to help a third party get actually viable. If rodger rabbit were to write a political platform, it would be:

1) It is illegal to run a financial deficit for more than three straight years. Within five years, any debt as a result of federal borrowing must be paid off. The premise of this rule is that paying interest on debt drains the budget and economy, resulting in more borrowing, etc. Ballance the books and give the people a REAL tax cut. We pay over $40,000,000 per HOUR in interest on the national debt.

2) If the government can insure property against theft by providing police, and if government can insure people agaist violence by providing police, and if government can insure property against fire by providing fire departments, and if government can provide protection from foreign invaders by providing military protection, then the government can also provide medical protection to the citizens. I am in favor of a single payer system for medical care. I would let everyone pay into the system, so that those in need can obtain the medical care they need. This means that healty people subsidise sick people. In fifty years, those same people who paid other peoples bills, will in turn get their own bills paid.

3) The military of the US is for our protection, and for the protection of our allies. It is not to be used for commercial gain. International law is to be enforced, not violated.

4) All citizens of the US have equal rights under the law. It matters not whether you are black, white or purple. It matters not whether you are straight or gay, democrat or republican, blonde or redhead.

5) The rights of the people to be secure in their homes is a national right. The rights of the people to be secure in their bodies is a national right. There shall be no searches of homes without prior knowledge of crimes, and likewise of a person's body. Drug tests without probable cause would become illegal. If they can take away peoples weed today, they'll take away their bibles tomorrow. It's time to draw the line in the sand.

6) I would abolish welfare as it is known now. Even if it costs more money to provide daycare for the poor then welfare, that is the correct path. People must work for what they eat. That lesson must be passed on to children. Nobody should expect something for nothing. Even the truly needy will have something they can give in return. Only the truly invalid should be 100% on the people's payroll.

Enough for now. I worked all night and need sleep.

[Hippie3]

Not true. Ohio was just another of 50 states. Their state was simply the last close one on election night. Sad but true.

as i saw and understand it,
had ohio went for kerry
he'd be president now.
ohio was the place where the battle held in balance
and then tipped.
if i were a southerner, down in mississipi
who hated bush with a passion
i might just blame those damn yankees living in their housing projects
for kerry's defeat eh ?
plenty of them that reads their bibles.

[Hippie3]

btw
i 'd vote for ya,
rodger rabbit for president.
has a nice ring to it.
when you win,
make me chairman of the
joint chiefs.

[Lazlo]

I'll be Treasurer! Nevermind, F that!

[kam]

I'd like to give my 2 cents:
Farenheit 9/11 wasn't great. It was definitely too one-sided, and it contained bad logic and inferences. However, it is necessary for their to be critiques of any government. Bush is just asking for it.

As for Bowling For Columbine, I think it's an excellent film. It is much better done than Farenheit and has a more concrete, logical premise. I found it to be mostly about the climate of fear in America and how fear makes Americans do crazy, stupid, maniacal things.

Skip Farenheit 9/11, read Farenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury, instead.

[Hippie3]