Tax dodgers taunt police from hilltop compound

[Cheap Bastid]

I wonder how long it'll be before they storm the place (even though they said they wouldn't) patience doesn't seem to be a virtue when it comes to the police and such...

I actually met Randy Weaver once, seemed like a pretty nice guy

[doom876]

Yo, new here. Hm, this topic caught my attention. I watched this whole documentary(would post it if I could find it, official site is freedomtofacism.com or .org, think it's .com). Anyway, it talked about the unconstitutionality of income tax. Heh, just take em to court and tell em to show you a law that says you have to pay those taxes. There is none at all. Great documentary, long though.

[Hippie3]

nothing unconstitutional about taxation,
the constitutuion clearly gives congress
the power to levy taxes.
good luck finding a judge willing to say otherwise
and even if you did
the government would appeal to higher court
and the supreme court has already ruled income tax
is legal.
your best defense is to refuse to file,
under the 5th amendment right to remain silent
and not be forced into self-incrimination.
still
when they catch up with you
you'll be ordered to pay, your assets seized and auctioned off and sizeable interest and penalties will be added to your debt.

[doom876]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

nothing unconstitutional about taxation,
the constitutuion clearly gives congress
the power to levy taxes.
good luck finding a judge willing to say otherwise
and even if you did
the government would appeal to higher court
and the supreme court has already ruled income tax
is legal.
your best defense is to refuse to file,
under the 5th amendment right to remain silent
and not be forced into self-incrimination.
still
when they catch up with you
you'll be ordered to pay, your assets seized and auctioned off and sizeable interest and penalties will be added to your debt.

Hm, forgot alot of the documentary, but income tax. You know, the 33+% of you pay they chop off every year is unconstitutional. It's a dirrect unaportioned tax, and the surprime court has made several rulings against it. It's just through fear because 99% of people don't go to court when tax problems happen, and many more don't know the taxes are illigal. Some are like my grandpa and just afraid he will loose if he fights it in court, but if you are prepared right there is no way to loose.

[Hippie3]

bullshit.
firstly, the constitution just says

Section 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States

it does not say only certain types of taxes are allowed, now does it ?

plenty of tax evaders get sent to prison.
call any licensed lawyer in any state
ask them, they'll tell you.
those who claim otherwise are just wishful thinkers
or liars trying to sell books or build a militia-cult.
cite any SCOTUS ruling against federal income tax if you can, i want to look it up.

[doom876]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

bullshit.
plenty of tax evaders get sent to prison.
call any licensed lawyer in any state
ask them, they'll tell you.
those who claim otherwise are just wishful thinkers
or liars trying to sell books or build a militia-cult.
cite any SCOTUS ruling against federal income tax if you can, i want to look it up.

I am sorry, but you are ignorant. Taxes can only be indirect and unaportioned(taxes on food and products you buy, this does not have to be distributed equaly) or direct and apportioned(such as income tax, though it isn't apportioned, meaning it isn't spread out equally to everyone, it isn't legal). The fucking SUPRIME COURT a few decades ago ruled income tax unconstitutional. Go to freedomtofacism.com and read up on it.

[Hippie3]

i read the constitution,
it's in plain english,
i suggest you read it too
instead of some website that caters to your views.

btw
insulting someone by calling them
ignorant
because they disagree with your dogma
is unacceptable.
i didn't call you any names,
and i resent you calling me one.
you are ill-mannered and abusing my hospitality
which now has come to an end.
farewell.

btw
even multimillionaires pay income taxes,
guys like bill gates or trump or branson,
even bush and cheney, congressmen and the judges too.
they all pay.
guys with more lawyers working for them
than i can count.
if there was a legal challenge to be made
i think they'd use it
instead of paying huge taxes.

[TVCasualty]

Since the Supreme Court has ruled the tax legal, it's obvious that changing it will have to come from Congress, not the courts. Nobody voluntarily gets off the Gravy Train, but if elected officials can see that they will be given the boot at the next election, they would be forced to back off or lose their power entirely, since less power is better than no power. Aligning with groups perceived as 'fringe' or 'radical' (whether they really are or not is irrelevant) does not advance popular support for a cause, yet the mainstream anti-tax groups working within the system get no media attention at all, so maybe battling on both fronts, the mainstream and the fringe, is necessary to change the status quo, though I would add that a tax protester is far more effective as an activist if he/she is not in prison.

Of course, whether or not elections are worth a damn anymore is another question altogether. National elections aren't worth a hanging chad, IMO, but local ones are still relevant, more or less, but local elections are not relevant to the federal income tax.

EDIT: I started writing this at 7:30, got distracted, and when I came back and finished it, I noticed that in the meantime the thread heated up and a member got banned before making 5 posts (rare when not a spammer!). Oh well. There's no shame in ignorance; everybody is ignorant of most of the universe, but rudeness is another story.

[alligator]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

when they catch up with you
you'll be ordered to pay, your assets seized and auctioned off and sizeable interest and penalties will be added to your debt.

all very true.

these days i think people who quote "give me liberty or give me death" are asking to die. no one can stop the machine that is the IRS. if you want freedom you got to pay for it. if you dont want to pay for it then they have no problem with killing you. just all in a days work for them.


and if anyone dont want to pay taxes all i can say to them is get a job "under the table"

[PsilocibeJuggalo]

I live about 45min from them. They are really nice people but they owe the IRS a lot. I bet that property is worth millions. A lot of places in NH restrict the size of the land that you can build on. For instance Pelham NH requires that there be at least an acre for every plot. There isn't any houses with less land. They have a trailer ban too so no trailer parks.

We would have never even heard about it if it wasn't such a touchy subject. Initially the IRS wasn't going after them but now they have to set an example or else everyone else will not pay either, which is fine somewhat but NH doesn't tax for much and if you have a lot of land you only pay taxes on the land you are using. Say you have 20 acres subdivided into 10 house lots but only one house built. You only pay for the plot that is built on. Unlike Mass where they charge you land tax as if swamp land was resort propperty.

The main thing now is the guns and ultimately the violence that is going to take place when they go to arrest them. The Michigan Militia and other mercs/militia soldiers have turned the couples yard into tent city. It's gonna be like the alamo woooooohhhooooooo!! you wont take me alive




They are looking at the rest of their lives in prison for tax evasion, I would have a stand off too!

[alligator]

so is this stand off about property taxes or income taxes? either way all i can say is join the club. millions of people dont "want" to pay taxes and there are avenues around paying the full amount owed. seems to me it would make more sense to just hire a lawyer. am i being unpatriotic? perhaps. but,the gov will kill these people no problem and never look back. it would be different if they were under the radar but they got caught.

[Hippie3]

true enough

[PsilocibeJuggalo]

unfortunately you are right. I think it was both property tax and income tax. There are a lot of people with guns there right now so it isn't gonna be as easy with Waco. These guys are mostly high strung vets with PTSD, you can bet they wont be the only ones dying....and for what, fuckin taxes , how retarded. All the IRS people that have ever stalked anyone should have the same thing done to them and their assets frozen so they can see what it feels like.

"If you don't pay us we wont give you back your money and your property"

"Well if you let me at the money I will pay you."

"I'm sorry, the account will remain frozen until we recieve payment!"

How assanine a system!

[cardink1]

off topic)) I got banned for calling Hippie3 "ignorant", which is not an insult. My teachers called us that for almost 4 years. I find that, especially on a free minded hippie forum very troubling, that one can receve a life ban for one simple word. I do like these forums, and would like to stay really. I am...or was, doom876. I didn't mean to be rude. IO still say fighting fact is ignorant though....(I did feel I should contribute, logging on just to say I didn't mean to be rude would totally waiste board space)

[Hippie3]

you must not plan on staying long
seeing how you reiterated your opinion that i'm ignorant.
first, you are not my teacher, i'm not a child still in school.
i'm at least your equal
and if you stood before me
and called me ignorant
twice
i'd knock you flat on your ass.


i suggest
if you want to return
you waste some space with a simple abject apology
and beg my forgiveness.
then i might let you have your say
on my board.

but first my friend
you must learn about
pecking order-
and around here
i'm the top pecker.

[Hippie3]

one more thought-
yes, this is a free-minded hippy site
but tolerance of diversity
doesn't mean we tolerate rude people in our midst.
we keep our peaceful loving atmosphere here
exactly by booting out all those who think
that they can be disrespectful, abusive, rude and intolerant of other views.
see,
there are better words, less offensive.
instead of saying ignorant
one might say
mis-informed or even misguided.
that's called being tactful.
something you might consider.
politeness is the lubricant that keeps
our moving parts in society from grinding each other.
> basic board rules <

[Invader Zim]

"top pecker" lol....

[Hippie3]

it was that or head pecker...

[Invader Zim]

lmao...u need to quit haha

u should put that as your title...sorry way off topic

btw..anyone got any links to current events on this?