oil refinery under water in kansas...40,000 gallons spilled

[Invader Zim]

oil refinery under water - Google News


total eco disaster...

[Hippie3]

yeah, got family/friends near there...

[Invader Zim]

i wonder what they'll do about the wildlife in that area...and for that matter the soil after the fact, its gonna be contaminated all to hell.

[Hippie3]

lol
not much can be done
proly not worth the cost either
just move.

[aumbrellaforainydays]

myco-remediation could do wonders...

[crazy1]

Thats a fact anumbrella, there are many mushrooms that can be used. The number one would be a Pleurotus ostreatus. It will not be edible but break down the oil to is base elements quite quickly.
And yes this is a very sad event. Will mankind ever learn?

[Invader Zim]

this isnt exactly the same as a oil spill in the ocean..that can be mopped up relatively easily..but once these waters recede that oil's gonna seep into the surrounding soil. hip may be right, string it off and call it a dead zone.

[crazy1]

This true Zim, but ground has already been cleaned up useing mushrooms. It is proven that it works.

[Invader Zim]

i also kinda wonder how 4' of water led to spillage of oil...those tanks look alot higher than 4'

[spunforfun]

well I have seen the spill and man what a mess. I didnt see any federal cleanup crews, but did see city and county trucks. I dont live there but went through there on the way to a job. I think that the oil companys ass should be 100% responsible for the cleanup. They make way too much $$$ for that black gold!! well I hope they clean it up but they will probably blow it off like most things.

[GoVols]

Originally Posted by spunforfun

I think that the oil companys ass should be 100% responsible for the cleanup. They make way too much $$$ for that black gold!!

If thats true they will just raise the price of gas even more to cover the cost.

BTW the Federal and State governments make a lot more money on a gallon of gas than any oil company.

[suckerfree]

I think if they pump it up and sell it, they can clean it up when they spill it... seems like only good manners.

[Nabby]

Paul Stamets used mushrooms to clean up a diesel spill.
YouTube - Paul Stamets - Bioremediation with Fungi

[GoVols]

Originally Posted by suckerfree

I think if they pump it up and sell it, they can clean it up when they spill it... seems like only good manners.

This isnt going to be popular.....but....

Exon, et al do not pump up the oil. At least no where near all of it. Most oil is nationalized.

They buy it and refine it and pass it on. They provide an invaluable service to this country. 'Big Oil' is not to blame for high gas prices in this country.

Their margins have not risen in the least bit. The blame for the current price of gas rests squarly on the Government, and every president starting with Carter till the current day.

[suckerfree]

That's it, your banned!

Well, let me rephrase, whomever is 'holding' the oil and is ready to 'sell' it for profit should clean up their own mess. They are making a profit off of it or they wouldn't be doing it.

If I owned a salad bowl and made my living selling tomatoes... and I spill them all in the street... I should clean them up right..?

And I'm kidding about the ban... rough day at work.. need some humor.

sucks either way though.

[Invader Zim]

seems i remember seeing something on t.v. where they can take oil laden sand/dirt and refine it into crude..... forget what they called the dirt.

[Invader Zim]

found it i think

Tar sands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

maybe something similar can work here?
even if it does tho the eco system will be stripped for some time. but better than leaving just laying around i guess.

[GoVols]

Im not saying that the oil company should bear none of the responsibalities of repairing the damage that the spill created.

But if im not mistaken it was a flood that caused the spill. So by the same logic, lets let all of the people of New Orleans rebuild the houses, they knew they were living in a dangerous area.

*toung in my cheek*

I understand the harsh feelings toward the oil companys, gas is high and it has an effect on other things.

Making the oil companies foot the bill for something as costly as this is sure to be will only make the current situation of gas prices worse. Making the government pay for it will not make taxes or gas go up.

I had a good day at work today, we got off early. So I can take your foux ban

[spunforfun]

Yes a flood did cause the oil spill, but the oil company was the ones who choose and built the facility where it was. the facility was in ks for many reasons, geographical location to consumers, and I bet ks gave them tax breaks to build it. oil companys do make a hell of a profit. I know they dont set the price per barrell for crude but oil companys ( to my knowledge) receive millions of dollars(tax dollars) each year. some of which is to be earmarked for safer and cleaner refining of oil. I guess what chaps my ass is gas prices change everyday. 9 cent increase in one day.13 in four days. Im sure that it will get passed to consumers somehow.
and for the statement,"they knew they were living in a dangerous area." Coffeyville,Ks is not a dangerous place. New Orleans is a city that is below sea level, and the sea was held back by the levees. corp of engineers had known since the early 60s. that if a big huricane was to hit new orleans dead center that first of all the pump stations wouldnt be able to pump enough water out to keep new orleans from flooding. the levees werent engineered to take a shot from a hurricane like they did. those people also had a couple of days warning to evacuate. the flooding in coffeyville was not something that happens all the time. Im doing a little research to find out the last time a flash flood like that happened in coffeyville.

[Hippie3]

there'd be no oil companies raking in the $$$
if consumers did not eagerly gulp down every last drop.

place the blame where it really belongs-
We, The People.

we are why
there is a refinery in coffeeville.

being a democracy
we also are who wrote the laws regulating
refinery safety, flood control, insurance, etc.

we also are de-facto partners with the refinery people,
allowing them to operate for a percentage of their profits,
i.e. taxes.

seems fair to pay for the clean-up with those tax dollars.

[Bobcat]

Perhaps all parties could work together. What is important here is that what can be done is done.

I would love to see some mycoremediation done here. See truck loads of wood chips be brought in and mixed in, spawned and left to ma nature.

Crazy, you said the mushrooms wouldn't be edible. I'm not disagreeing with you, but wondering if there has been new info released on the subject? Last thing I read on it was in Stamets' Mycelium Running (I think, maybe somewhere else I can't remember right now since then as well). Anyway, didn't that say the mushrooms showed no contaminates in the lab, but he wasn't comfortable eating them yet? Have there been new analyses that have showed contaminates? I don't think I would be eating them without a lot more lab work either....

[spunforfun]

Well Hippie damm fine job . I believe you hit it deadon! We need a intelligent and articulate person like you to run for President.
HIPPIE FOR PRESIDENT!!
just joking

[maidenofiron]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

being a democracy
we also are who wrote the laws regulating
refinery safety, flood control, insurance, etc.

wait a minute??! since when did WE write the laws?? we do not and never have lived in a direct democracy in which we would be making the decisions that affect our lives. we live in a representative democracy where we elect people who act and make decisions which supposedly represent our interests. but you know, and i know you know that this is hardly the case. what was the discussion we had about politicians being corrupt?? so no we did not in anyways write these laws and regulations which are broken half the time anyways in the pursuit of profits. these things are written with the businesses interests in mind. it takes massive amounts of citizen resistance to uphold the publics interest in the face of billions of dollars of corporate money flowing towards the government.

and to say its our fault we guzzle down so much oil is such a half truth it hurts. since when does the majority of north americans have alternatives to gas powered vehicles??

[Hippie3]

and who hired
every single politician
by voting for them ?
once again
We, The People.

we get what we want,
we vote for superficial people
for superficial reasons
then deny any responsibility
when they do a crappy job.

but the proof of our own fault
is simple-
the long term universal incompetence
of our elected officials.
it's not just one guy,
nor just one time
nor just one place.

but time and time again,
at every level of government-
all this incompetence
over many long decades
across thousands of miles
and millions of acres
has but 1 common factor-
all were picked and empowered
by We, The People.

that's the sad joke about democracy,
the People are unfit to govern
and never accept responsibilty for their decisions,
always blaming a scapegoat instead.

[Hippie3]

since when does the majority of north americans have alternatives to gas powered vehicles??

less than a century ago
that was indeed the case in america-
no one had cars.
we made a choice,
we got rid of the horses
and bought up every car we could.
we spent billions to build highways to carry them,
billions more to build the rail/river networks to move the
needed iron and coal to the factories making cars
and billions more building oil wells, refineries and
gas stations to service the growing fleet of cars and trucks.
we made a choice,
not you or i personally
but We, The People
did.

[TVCasualty]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Crazy, you said the mushrooms wouldn't be edible. I'm not disagreeing with you, but wondering if there has been new info released on the subject? Last thing I read on it was in Stamets' Mycelium Running (I think, maybe somewhere else I can't remember right now since then as well). Anyway, didn't that say the mushrooms showed no contaminates in the lab, but he wasn't comfortable eating them yet? Have there been new analyses that have showed contaminates? I don't think I would be eating them without a lot more lab work either....

I'd guess that they would have to test each mushroom individually to see if it was edible, since the other factor making fungi good candidates for bioremediation is their ability to hyperaccumulate dangerous toxins like heavy metals, radioactive isotopes, etc.

Chances are, there's a bunch of heavy metals in that spill, among other things, that might get concentrated into the fruitbodies even if all the hydrocarbons were totally consumed. Frankly, that would be great- pick and dry the metallic mushrooms and you've just isolated the most recalcitrant types of soil contaminants into a tiny amount of mass (relative to the contaminated soil) that will be much cheaper and easier to further remediate.

Seems to me any accident like this is an opportunity to test a new method for dealing with it. Soak up as much as possible in straw, or chicken feathers, and inoculate it w/ oyster myc. and see what happens.

On a related note, the 14 year old daughter of a good friend of mine won a science fair with a project that determined the most efficient way to absorb oil out of water. After testing a bunch of possibilities, she found that human hair absorbed an oil slick the best while absorbing the least amount of water with it. She put hair gathered from a barbershop floor into panty hose and skimmed oil off the water in a kiddie pool (a small amount of new motor oil was used, and the pool was not used by actual kiddies after the experiment).

I brought up chicken feathers because they are a commodity more likely to be obtainable in industrial quantities and nearly identical to hair (feathers are a little tougher and even better at absorbing oil as they have more surface area exposed; notice what happens to sea birds in coastal oil spills...).

There needs to be some kind of team assembled that can be dispatched quickly to do this kind of mycoremediation stuff, maybe the "First ReSpawnders?" No, that's terrible.



BTW: The last update I read about this story was that 71,000 gallons had spilled.

[crazy1]

Well I agree that I wouldn't go eating those mushrooms used for the cleanup. I don't think there really has been any other thesting done to find out if there were contams in the mushroom that would be harmful to people.
That was great TV that that girl has looked into ways to clean up oil spills. That is a mind that is really thinking. And the oysters will grow on hair without a problem so there still would be no residual waste in doing cleanups in that form.
I hope that at sometime soon the powers that be will see there are much more simple and USEFUL ways to clean up there ecological disasters.

[TVCasualty]

Originally Posted by crazy1

I hope that at sometime soon the powers that be will see there are much more simple and USEFUL ways to clean up there ecological disasters.

"The powers that be" that you speak of are us!

I for one am not waiting around for some anemic self-serving bureaucracy to slowly wake up to these new technologies for cleaning up our shared messes. If someone can colonize a straw log with the culture of their choice, they can do mycoremediation experiments.

[crazy1]

Well I'll be right by your side if you wanna try to get in there with this idea/proven fact and show them how cheap and immensely more efficient we could clean this mess up and BENIFIT the environment in doing so.
I'd have a mess of spawn ready to go within a weeks time.
Not to mention about 40 used grow bags to also spawn with TV.
I know we are "the powers that be" b8ut have you ever tried to enter a FEMA-DEQ- or any other "agencies" "clean up effort"? It's not that easily done. But I'm all for it being done with mushrooms and so called "waste" products.

[suckerfree]

Well it seems now a valve was left open which let the oil spill during the flood, and the company says GOD was the last one to touch it...


source

[TVCasualty]

Originally Posted by suckerfree

Well it seems now a valve was left open which let the oil spill during the flood, and the company says GOD was the last one to touch it...

source

I wonder what God is trying to tell us this time?!?

I'm not sure if this was God's lesson plan, but it was a great lesson about depending on technology too much, and not setting up a more robust (or redundant) system for dealing with failures within such critical applications.

A river gauge upstream at Independence had become stuck that night so it wasn’t registering accurate water levels. Once it was repaired between 10 and 11 p.m. that night, it showed that flooding would top the levees by three or four feet,

So the only river gauge upstream of an oil refinery indicates "no problem" and everybody relaxes, then someone whacked it with an oar and suddenly it jumps up to say "big problem, right NOW" and everybody panics and well, things get overlooked.

The article left me with lots of questions, but I'll only post a few- Why does it take 15 minutes to close a valve on a tank in the 21st century?

Why are there no sensors in place to warn if unsafe conditions are developing? (even my toilet has a float valve, after all, so preventing overflowing tanks isn't exactly rocket surgery)

Why was the safety of the refinery and the town downstream in the hands of a single water level gauge?

Why why why?