Biodiesel Fuel

[dukex]

Seen this over at Coast to Coast any thoughts?

"In the first half hour, country music legend Willie Nelson discussed a clean burning alternative fuel called biodiesel. He said his tour bus runs on biodiesel made from soybeans, and claims to get better gas mileage with "no down side." Read more about biodiesel at http://www.biodiesel.org."

Peace...

[destroy_erase_improve]

yup
there are plenty of different things we could be using as substitutes. but it takes money to get that change into place.
and unfortunately it will change a lot of money and power out of a lot of peoples hands. and those people hold a lot of pull, and arent likely to just let it go without fighting tooth and claw.
it is my opinion that things will change eventually, but gradually like the HYBRID car and things of that nature. i dont think it will all fall in one swift drop. and i doubt that in my lifetime i see a total conversion.
but eventually i have faith things will pan out ok.
for us, our children, nature, and mother earth

[Beastmaster]

i doubt that in my lifetime i see a total conversion.

Dude, how old are you? I'm pretty sure I've heard thet fuel reserves and such will be uneconomical or used up within the next 30 years or so. Gas prices hit $3 a gallon this week, which is much less than most of the world pays. Senate voted to drill in ANWR for 5% our current daily usage for 200 days is it? And it won't be available for ten years? Sounds like things are getting pretty thin, I'm not sure I can chalk it up to greed. Things are gonna be like Mad Max's world real soon. Better stock up on Beans and Bullets Boys!

[maliki]

You can get Bio up here around me .75 a gallon its corn and other stuff they make it from alot of the farmers run there disel tractors on it.. Notice how disiel engines are starting to grow in popularity.

[dukex]

"You can get Bio up here around me .75 a gallon its corn and other stuff they make it from alot of the farmers run there disel tractors on it.. Notice how disiel engines are starting to grow in popularity."

I think if there where more places to get it more would use it. As far as the diesel goes yeah I have noticed they are getting more popular I am considering this more and more with the gas prices going up like that. A friend has the Volkswagen Jetta turbo diesel he is getting close to 50 miles a gallon, but I will only buy American so.

Peace...

[destroy_erase_improve]

[QUOTE=Beastmaster] I'm pretty sure I've heard thet fuel reserves and such will be uneconomical or used up within the next 30 years or so. QUOTE]

eh im skeptical of lots of things ive heard. im far from a pro when it comes to knowing. but with all the propoganda spit out anymore about each and every topic. through websites and the news and pro-gas companies, and con-gas companies etc. its hard to tell what is truth and what is scare tactic.

there may very well be an end to gas, but i dont believe in anyway we will turn to a mad max type world. there is too much technology now. there will simply be a conversion to something else. this is just my opinion. i have no facts to back this up at all.

all i do know is sometimes the truth is spread thin or the halftruths/mistruths are spread thick, to try to prove a point.

[Bromius]

There was a prediction made by a man named Hubbert in the 1950's that US oil production would follow a bell curve shape. Extrapolating from the trends up until he formulated his idea, he predicted that domestic production would peak in the 1970's. It did. World oil production is following a similar trajectory and was/is expected to peak around now. Production may continue for awhile but the oil available now is harder to extract because it is deeper, out at sea under the bedrock or in far away countries that don't like us very much. These all increase the cost, directly or indirectly (fighting for resources uses tax money but doesn't increase the cost at the pump). Also, economic activity has been increasing exponentially so the last half will be spread a lot thinner than the first half. Running out of economically viable reserves in 30 or so years seems entirely plausible. In order to meet energy demands though, we will need to start switching over to other sources sooner than that.

Liquid fuels like biodiesel are convenient because they have a high density of stored energy and are easy to manipulate. They can also be burned in existing engines. Based on the site DukeX posted it seems like all of the fuels that could eventually replace petroleum, biodiesel makes the most sense. Keep in mind though, the amount of energy you get back compared to what you put into getting it is much lower with any of these fuels compared to petroleum. One other qualification on biodiesel. Since it is derived from plant oils, the plants producing the oil need to be grown somewhere. That will take up a lot of space currently used to grow food. Also, modern agriculture is heavily reliant on the use of fossil fuels to power equipment, ship goods around and also to obtain fertilizer (mining phosphate rock and fixing nitrogen via the Haber process). In addition to modern ag. generally being bad in terms of long term soil health, the costs of what it produces are tightly linked to the price of oil.

[waylitjim]

Once you do the bio diesel conversion, you can use vegetable oil or regular diesel fuel.
This is cool, if you can't get to a bio station...just use diesel.

Lots of folks around my area convert old diesel cars, trucks, busses etc.
Infact, all of our city vehicles are run bio diesel.

[carpo4]

and unfortunately it will change a lot of money and power out of a lot of peoples hands. and those people hold a lot of pull, and arent likely to just let it go without fighting tooth and claw.

i recently came across a local newspaper article promoting bio-fuel
with a link to a uk website: www.bio-power.co.uk
and what is its opening news item?

"Please help us to challenge the position recently taken by the UK Environment Agency that all used cooking oil, and indeed any second use material which can be developed as a way of making renewable energy from non-fossil materials must be subject to Waste Management Regulations. The effect of this will make the creation of bio-fuels in the UK non-viable for all except the very largest centralised operations. It will mean that local groups and voluntary organisations will be unable to make bio-fuels to meet local needs, and it will mean that even home manufacture of bio-fuel will require licences costing several thousands of pounds. The Environment Agency even claim that the use of bio-fuels made from used fats is subject to regulation as a means of waste disposal. It effectively jeopardises any serious investment in the bio-fuels industry in the UK. This level of regulation is not reported from any of our Bio-power operators overseas."

[vrooota]

What carpo4 posted is an example of the reason this situation is going to get worse before it gets better. Too many people that have control over the energy resources now are going to be dead before they can't fill up their gas tank. Thus they just don't give a damn about developing ways to sustain the infrastructure 30 years from now. Everyone will move along like its all peachy keen and pretend that there is no problem with the future of our lifestyle. then the crisis hits, millions die from direct or indirect results of the loss of chemical energy sources, and we learn how to get by on less real real fast.
Hopefully not. But it is a possible future. The end of oil is not internet conspiracy. Its legitimate fact as Bromius explained quite well above. You can make combustible hydrocarbons from virtually anything. There is a 'lab'-I guess thats what you would call it- in Kentucky I believe that is across the street from a butterball processing plant. They turn tons and tons of turkey guts into heating oil every year. Hemp, corn soybeans, all are great sources of oil that doesn't have to be pumped out of the ground from half way around the world and then shipped here to burn in cars that are made to be less than half as efficient as they could be.
.75/gallon for biodiesel? thats really cheap, I wonder how they can make it that cheaply, always was under the impression that it currently was slightly more expensive than gas. regular diesal is actually more expensive than gas in my area, so that doesn't help, but I would love to own one of those VWs, prolly got more balls than a hybrid.

[l33t]

yep .

the rate of discovery for new sources of oil was increasing until 1965. It has been decreasing ever since, even with all of the state-of-the art technology that is no-doubt being used to search for it.

I think they've already put a hit out on willie nelson

[Bromius]

I think the fraction of energy provided by renewable sources will definitely increase in the future. Rapidly I hope. I think though, the next big thing is sadly going to be coal because we have a lot of it right here in this country and it has a high density of stored chem. energy. It is a superb fuel, the next best compared to oil (in terms of net energy gain). Also the cheapest, with well established technology for using it.

I think investing in coal companies and electric generating companies would be a wise bet, because they will be running things when the oil is gone. Might as well profit from the inevitable. Owning stock in these companies might also make sense if enough people that invested had sympathy for the environment. Stockholders can vote, so if the will and the numbers were there that could at least lead to better emissions controls. That would be a good thing since the pH of the rain in my part of the country is already averaging around 4 these days. Normal is five... and pH is a log scale so ten times more acidic than it should be....

[vrooota]

Using more coal would be a step backwards but I'm afraid it is the most logical solution to the lack of oil for poweer generation, coal will stay cheap longer methinks. I'd like to start building a windmill or something for myself, fuck owning stock in power companies. Lots of poor corporate management, I no likey

I think the main thing is that people don't realize how simple biodiesel is. If you have refinend biodiesel fuel, you can put it RIGHT IN TO a new diesel engine and it will run. Now I saw "new" diesel engine for a reason. Biodiesel is a natural solvent for carbon buildup and fuel gum in your injection systems and engine. So if you take a car with 100k miles on it, and start to run 100% biodiesel in it, you need to replace the fuel filter very frequently at the beginning. All the fuel deposits in your engine will break apart and clog stuff up if you start using it on an older engine.

Raw biodiesel can also be used in these cars. All you need to do is make a heated gas tank, and do some changes on your fuel lines/filter/carburator. But it's nothing complicated. With this type of setup, you can pour grease in your gas tank straight from McDonalds.

The refining process is simple as well. You justs add lye (I think its lye?) to the grease to separate the glycerine from the combustable fuel. And its great, because they smell like french fries when you run them.

Oh, and my vote is for more nuclear energy.

[pskovinsky]

In berlin 90% of the gas stations sell bio diesel, for 10 cents less per liter then regular diesel, pretty cool...

[Bromius]

Originally Posted by vrooota

Using more coal would be a step backwards but I'm afraid it is the most logical solution to the lack of oil for poweer generation, coal will stay cheap longer methinks. I'd like to start building a windmill or something for myself, fuck owning stock in power companies. Lots of poor corporate management, I no likey

Heh, use profit from coal stock to buy a windmill. You might be able to build one but someone living on the 9th floor of some apartment building in wherever, usa probably will have more trouble. If energy is tight, people are gonna go for what's cheapest.

[Bromius]

Is it ethical to convert food to fuel if the UN estimates 3 billion people in the world are malnourished?

[dark_reaper]

Originally Posted by Bromius

Is it ethical to convert food to fuel if the UN estimates 3 billion people in the world are malnourished?

Not really, but at least the fuel will be of use, whereas I'd say its more unethical that 22.8% of the US population is obese.
There are plenty of things that we do in the west for our benefit that could help peple in the 3rd world, but I guess foir the moment, thats the way it is.

Originally Posted by pskovinsky

In berlin 90% of the gas stations sell bio diesel, for 10 cents less per liter then regular diesel, pretty cool...

Yeah, some of the places around where I live in the US have started to sell biodiesel mixes. The ones I have seen are only BD2 which means it is 2% biodiesel and the rest regular diesel. There are some places that have started selling BD20 as well. So it is getting there.