A few stupid kids...and we all suffer

[Sweetness]

Bill to outlaw plant-based drugs held up
Natural medicine advocates speak out
Thursday, May 05, 2005
By Ed Anderson
Capital bureau

BATON ROUGE -- A bill making it a crime to process hallucinogenic drugs from plants, including morning glory and angel's trumpet, ran into a snag Wednesday when advocates of natural medicine said the proposal could put them out of business.

Rep. Mike Strain, R-Covington, sponsor of House Bill 20, asked the House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice to postpone debate on the bill for a week so he can work with officials of the Louisiana Health Freedom Coalition, an organization that promotes the use of plants and herbs in medical treatment.

As it stands, Strain's bill bans 39 plants and herbs from being used, owned or processed to make illegal drugs. He introduced the bill because there has been a problem with youths in the New Orleans area ingesting angel's trumpet to get high, and dying or injuring themselves.

"There was one youth in Kenner who tried to chew his own arm off" after taking a plant-based hallucinogen, Strain said. "We have people abusing them with devastating consequences."

The bill would make it a crime to produce, manufacture or possess with intent to distribute compounds and mixtures that contain one of the listed hallucinogenic plants. Violators could be punished by between two and 10 years in jail and a fine not exceeding $20,000.

The bill also would make it a crime to possess or make drugs containing a hallucinogenic plant. Violators could face up to five years in jail and pay a fine of up to $5,000.

Anyone who owns, grows or cultivates the hallucinogenic plants would not be in violation, Strain said.

But Kevin LeBlanc, who said he is a doctor of natural medicine, said with more people using natural medicines from roots, plants and herbs, Strain's measure "would eradicate what is already on Louisiana shelves," products such as belladonna and St. John's wort.

He asked the panel to amend out of the bill the products derived from hallucinogenic plants used for culinary or medicinal purposes.

But Rep. Danny Martiny, R-Kenner, chairman of the panel, said that would defeat the purpose.

"That would gut the bill and people would then say they were using it for medical purposes," he said.

On another matter, the panel approved and sent to the House floor HB 29 by Rep. Eric Lafleur, D-Ville Platte, restricting the sale of over-the-counter cold and sinus medication that can be used to make methamphetamine.

Lafleur's bill would make it illegal for a store to sell more than three packs, or nine grams, of ephedrine or pseudoephedrine at one time. A violation could be punishable by a fine up to $2,000, up to two years in jail or both.

The bill also would make it illegal to sell the ephedrine products knowing they will be used to make illegal drugs. The bill calls for a penalty of a minimum two years, and up to five years, in jail, a fine of $10,000 or both.

A more complex version of the same ban cleared a Senate committee on Tuesday, restricting the sale to three packs and requiring more monitoring and display of the products on store shelves.
. . . . . . .
Ed Anderson can be reached at eanderson@timespicayune.com or (225) 342-5810.

Link

that is so stupid, like making shit illegal has ever thwarted someone from using it, it only hurts people who have legitimate uses of the drug or substance, really.

[destroy_erase_improve]

they just keep banning natural herbs. pulling farther and farther away from gold things, and then pushing manufactured drugs that have more side effects than positive properties.

"There was one youth in Kenner who tried to chew his own arm off"
holy crap!

[whitedeath]

Unfortunately, sometimes it's the exception that makes the rule.

While they are at it why not ban all medications because some dumbass, in theory, could ingest enough to kill themselves. This is just another way to put more money into the hands of the Big drug co. Take power away from the individual and they have to rely on manufactured syntehsized drugs made by the all powerful Drug companies.
This is such a crock of shit! Hell if you eat too much you might die of health problems related to obesity....so lets ban food.

Dozens of kids have killed themselves while on prozac. This isn't about safety or some kid chewing his arm off. Geezus, some religious freak in texas cut the arms off her kids over religion, yet they didn't ban bibles. This is about putting more money in the hands of the pharmacutical corporations. I'll bet if you follow the money, you'll see bribes(campaign contributions) from the big drug companies made to those LA politicians who are pushing this.
RR

[whitedeath]

There are lots of things that you can die from that are still legal.

For instance: smoking, fishing, bungee jumping, rock climbing, Tylenol....

[taoistshredder]

Yeah, let's go tell these assholes that a tube of aspirin can cause fatal stomach bleeding. Or that too much Tylenol causes severe liver damage/failure. How about the fact that the nicotine contained in five cigarettes is enough to kill (yeah that's right - you only ingest about 5-10% of nicotine when you smoke it - do our everclear extraction with tobacco and you have one of the dealiest insceticides known to man since the mid-1800s). Fucking shit, you can die from drinking too much water! Why are a bunch of dipshit lawyers/businessmen in congress deciding this shit and not doctors? Oh, that's right, because they're all being paid by the pharm companies: one side paid to talk about bullshit and the other side paid to not correct them.

[Sweetness]

They're doing it because we're letting them.

I always say, "If you want to make something popular, ban it."
dumbasses.

quote from Baton Rouge:
"BATON ROUGE -- A bill making it a crime to process hallucinogenic drugs from plants"


quote from the bible:
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Genesis 1:29


Now, the bible clearly uses the term 'meat' to mean knowledge, such as in 1 corinthians 3:2 " have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able."

Again, 'meat' is clearly referring to knowledge when the writer of Hebrews writes: "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:12.

Therefore, psychoactive plants have been given to man for knowledge, provided one believes in the bible. However, the last thing the power brokers in the bible belt believe in is the bible, and this is the reason a certain heathen brother from among us found a use it's much better suited for(substrate).
RR

why can't they just try education with the youth, instead of passing inane laws and bills and spending tax payers money? Spend my tax money on educating these kids, not creating bad laws and throwing non-crimanals in jail.

[Lefty]

Sorry I don't have more time to spend, using a friends pc. Sweet & Mr. Rabbit, you guys fucking rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[taoistshredder]

"the last thing the power brokers in the bible belt believe in is the bible"
Man, ain't that the truth?

"Spend my tax money on educating these kids"
They do. They call it D.A.R.E. [vomits all over the board]

[taoistshredder]

Meat connotates knowledge; does milk connotate ignorance?
Is the knowledge knowledge of sin as the tree in Eden or is it just pure knowledge?

[Sweetness]

1 Pet 2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Peter was teaching that the milk, i.e., the scriptures are to the new followers, babes in Christ, as milk is to a baby. The milk is for baby Christians, so to speak, who do not yet have a sound knowledge of good and evil as taught in the Bible.

Once a person has been schooled with the milk of the word they are ready to receive the meat, the teachings of good and evil and bare the burdens of those teachings.

Heb 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

[Sweetness]

Originally Posted by taoistshredder

Meat connotates knowledge; does milk connotate ignorance?
Is the knowledge knowledge of sin as the tree in Eden or is it just pure knowledge?

So both milk and meat connotate knowledge. Pure knowledge refers to the word of God who is pure of sin.

[taoistshredder]

Which is a concept I've never understood as I thought an all-powerful/all-knowing divinity was supposed to be "all-encompassing." Yet another comment that got me dirty looks in Sunday School...

[Sweetness]

Oh I bet a lot of things go you in trouble in Sunday School... :P

[Hippie3]

quote from the bible:
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Genesis 1:29


Now, the bible clearly uses the term 'meat' to mean knowledge, such as in 1 corinthians 3:2 " have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able."

Again, 'meat' is clearly referring to knowledge when the writer of Hebrews writes: "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:12.

lol
sometimes
meat is
just meat.
what we see here
is exactly why
we humans are losing more freedom,
i.e. too many idiots screwing it up
for the few intelligent.

I feel ya, shredder. An omniscient, omnipresent, eternal being must be made of both good and evil.

Originally Posted by taoistshredder

Which is a concept I've never understood as I thought an all-powerful/all-knowing divinity was supposed to be "all-encompassing." Yet another comment that got me dirty looks in Sunday School...

quote:
"lol
sometimes
meat is
just meat."

Sometimes it's what we wake up in bed with after a night out.

quote:
"I thought an all-powerful/all-knowing divinity was supposed to be "all-encompassing.""

Yahweh/Jehovah started out as just such a god. The concept of dualism began around the time of Zoroaster. In the old testament, that dualism is denied several times. Jehovah was both good and evil. Amos 3:6 "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" Again, the message is driven home in Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

It was the catholic church who remade satan from a 'son of god'(Job 1:6) into a 'god of evil' to suit their own purposes, and of course the protestants followed along. The original god of the jews was dualistic, all encompassing, good and evil.
RR

[Hippie3]

it's misleading to use english words like 'evil' as we mean it today
to draw conclusions
because the word was used differently when the translation was written,
not to forget that the hebrew/greek roots have yet other meanings.

The intent is not to mislead, but to show that the god of the jews is a one and only god, while the christians have rewritten the bible to remake him into a 'loving father' with all the bad shit being done by the devil. The passage was a slam against the dualism prevalent in 600-300 BCE. The other translations use somewhat different language, but the intent of each is to show that he's both the good guy and the bastard.

Here's the New International Version:
Amos 3:6 When a trumpet sounds in a city,
do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city,
has not the LORD caused it?

The New American Standard version
Amos 3:6 If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?

The amplified bible
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city and the people not be alarmed and afraid? Shall misfortune or evil occur and the Lord has not caused it?

They all say the same thing. The point is the catholic church had to create a boogie man, and they used lucifer to fill the bill. This was done as a slam to the ancient religions where lucifer was held in the highest regard as the bringer of light(knowledge). So complete was this transformation violently enforced that most people today don't even know that lucifer is actually the morning star. The morning star is last star(actually a planet, but they, including jehovah didn't know that) visible in the morning sky after the sun has wiped out the visibility of all the others. Paul obviously didn't know either, as the catholic/protestant version of lucifer is based on one sentence in 2 corinthians 11, verse 14: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"

Ok, enough bullshit religion, sorry.
RR

[myceliod]

Sheesh

[vrooota]

what great threads you guys write when I've got my head turned.

i think they're attempting to keep reality in the minds of the people concrete. it's a form of nazism i think, like burning books. anything that might stimulate though a divert one's attention from the object they want you to focus on is banned, burned and forgotten. but for how long?

[littlefaucher]

D.A.R.E....hah... I'd blame the vast uproar of my drug curiousness because of that.. not because the drugs they talked about made me curious, but I stayed clean for years because I had been educated that users of drugs, including weed, often vomit and get very sick and all that...then when I tried weed I learned that I didn't feel sick at all and thought "DARE, what a croc of shit. Time to make up for the experiences I missed"

[Lazlo]

LOL! Remember that stupid D.A.R.E. bear. LOLLOL! That damn thing came to our HIGH SCHOOL! LOL! All 1000 students bellied over in tears at this dumb shit!

[myceliod]

DAMN STUPID KIDS!

[elixir]

Novak is right IMHO. The government doesn't spend adequate amounts of cashflow on education because smart people are a threat to the ones in power. By keeping an uneducated labor force (see Brave New World for a great idealistic example of how this works) the powers that influence economy can keep the power where they want it. In their pockets.

Entheogens allow people a diverse spiritual background and complex thought evolution. By outlawing emotional, mental, and spirtual growth the government ensures that people are too "in the dark" to challenge them and will continue to be a conformist labor force. Instead of adding poisons to the culture jars (Brave New World) they just prohibit growth.

The war on cannabis was partly begun as an offensive maneuver against the Mexican labor force who used it for therapeutic purposes after a painful day of work.

All text in this message is posted as words of a priest and should not be considered advice or direction. =]

[Entheogeneration]

I've known this was gonna happen for a couple of years, and i'm sort of frightened now that it's right around the corner. Thinking i could spend years in prison for the now legal plants and herbs i grow. Argh...wtf to do. One man is not enough to change a thing in america, it takes large organized groups. I don't even want to leave the country for another 5 years at least, but it looks like i'm gonna have to. I'm just gonna have to be a bystander, watching the united states go down the hole, bringing the rest of the world with them, from another country...how sad...my family and many friends will remain here.....

[int]

haha,
my little brother came home one day telling me about the schools anti-drug slogan: "I'd rather eat bugs than do drugs." You can just see how much time and effort was put into that rhyme. I think it symbolizes the intelligence of groups like D.A.R.E.

The thing that really pisses me off is that they send the message that illegal drugs are bad, but don't really bring up alcohol and nicotine. And of course they always attack the most harmless drug, weed, above all others. In the end they are so unhip they end up making kids want to do drugs.

Don't blame the kids blame the lawmakers. I always hated how if a certain rule is made because of someones mistake everyone gets mad at the person who is already suffering from their mistake. Really the one you should be mad at is the one who made the stupid law.