politics at 'topia- yay or nay

[Hippie3]

well the election is all but over soon,
i'm wondering about making the ban on partisan political threads here
permanent.
frankly i find party politics to be divisive, a source of great negativity and conflict
with little to offer of benefit to this site.
but i'll listen to your voices too now.
should partisan political threads return to 'topia
or stay gone?

[Rhyno]

gone.

[wildburr]

Definitely gone for good. I find politics talk to be nothing but bashing the other guy (no matter who your for or against) and creates problems and animosity. would rather stay friendly.

[Sideshow]

Let's please leave it behind. I love politics, but there are other places better suited to lay down your greivances.

[UniqueShroomer]

Politics should be discussed elsewhere... Mycotopia is sacred and hallowed ground that should not IMO be tainted with political discussions.

[Dr_T]

There's a lot of smart people here- it would be fun to discuss certain issues.

Any chance of 'some tolerance' of politics, in a sub-forum?

[steeq]

When I see talk of politics I want to do this



Seriously though Hippie, you are wise for keeping it off the boards.

[wildburr]

Originally Posted by Dr_T

There's a lot of smart people here- it would be fun to discuss certain issues.

Any chance of 'some tolerance' of politics, in a sub-forum?

Whats up Dr_T,
I agree, ceretain issues could probably work, but where do we draw the line at what constitutes going too far and just start arguments. Dont want to open up that can of worms

[Dr_T]

Yeah, agreed there.
Like, I'm curious why people are so freaked out about the term 'socialized medicine', even though they support the idea of 'national health insurance'.

But... too much potential for anger. At least until after January.

[Beastmaster]

LOL, yeah you're gonna have to let the wounds heal, January at a minimum.

I think Political Issues are worth discussing.

Political People (candidates/polititions, etc) are not worth discussing.

[claykrys]

I really enjoy coming here at the end of the day to relax and read interesting posts made by interesting people. The last thing I want to see is partisan politics. I usually just skip past the political posts. Even the ones I agree with. I have in the past read the political posts and gotten myself worked up either positively or negatively over someone elses opinion. I enjoy my time here much more when I ignore the partisan political stuff.

[seven rays]

The only time politics/government should be discussed here is when drugs/drug policies are central to the issue @ hand.

otherwise, let's grow shrooms, trip, and forget all of that BS!

s r

[deepdeltablues]

I don't like the partisan-politics, discussions of other political natured topics i.e. health care / laws are intresting though, and I get a limited intake of that sort of info anyway, so it's kind of nice to see it by accident sometimes.

But Partisan politics should bo on another web site!

[rocketman]

I believe we should be able to discuss and debate the system of government, but I think its best if we stay away from any candidates or elected officials.

The exception being the Judicial branch, because the supreme court is interesting to say the least, although they are appointed not elected. Just my opinion.

[August West]

Originally Posted by Beastmaster

LOL, yeah you're gonna have to let the wounds heal, January at a minimum.

I think Political Issues are worth discussing.

Political People (candidates/polititions, etc) are not worth discussing.

seconded

[boatsoup]

seeing as i'm canadian, i dont really care. us canadians just had an election, we kept the same guy in office, big whoop. most of you probably dont pay much attention to canadian politics either so no biggie. but most politics just cause grievances anyways

[immortalon]

You can only have an intelligent conversation about religion and politics when all involved are 1. intelligent, and 2. open minded. It's the kind of thing where one bad apple ruins the bunch, and as soon as the one person chimes in without an open mind, or lacking the ability to think intelligently, the whole thing starts to make a turn for the ugly. I'd vote no to politics.

[Irishlion]

politics is a breeding ground for negativity. I vote gone.

[dice]

I think we should be able to talk about politics.
At least it would be cool to have one thread in which we could discuss
politics and things like that.
I know lots of people dont like to however we are all adults here.
Like Dr T said there is lots of smart people here in which we could have
very good disscusions on very important subjects.
Although It is hard to discuss politics without some kinda negativity
from one side or the other.
Either way Im not gonna stop coming here nor mind if there is a thread
about politics. If I dont like it I just will not read the thread.
There are some important things taking place which should
be talked about.
Even if people are not from the US it would be nice to see what there
thoughts are on the situation here.

[Lefty]

Feel discussion of such creates lasting divisions

[RockyRaccoon]

negative .

[chimp]

According to what H3 said and my understanding of the rule, the ban has always been on Partisan politics. "The democrats do this" and "the republicans do that" type of thing. A healthy discussion of politics, "non-partisan" bias discussions would be a good thing I think. The question is can people do that and stick to it?

[TVCasualty]

A lot of topics tend to stray into politics, or are political by their very nature (global warming, terrorism, etc.) so discussion of those subjects will occasionally flare up into the kind of unproductive name-calling and divisive negativity that the banning of 'politics' is meant to prevent. So, somehow a line needs to be drawn, but that is so arbitrary and subjective that any such line would be a matter of opinion and become a political issue itself.

The wide-ranging discussions that happen here are part of 'Topia's appeal, and it's interesting to see the broad spectrum of beliefs held among a bunch of people who are mainly connected by a love of psychedelics. I'd like to occasionally get into healthy debates about climate change or terrorism, and it's unrealistic to expect to be able to eliminate political friction so I'd rather tolerate some of it than try to ban it all. It would open up 'Topia to being criticized as forcing some kind of adherence to an official party line even if that were not the case, and that might be off-putting to potential new members.

It's opening a can of worms if we do, and a can of worms if we don't. I guess there really is no escape from politics (well almost; I just remembered one- ). The trick is going to be how to not throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water...

I definitely think the ban on politics through this campaign season has been an amazing success, even though I've been chompin' at the bit to post some awesome satirical pics of the candidates. The greater good has been served by my not posting them, however and 'Topia has been a great refuge from the campaigning.

obichip's comment summed up my take: The rules that are already in place prevent personal attacks and propaganda or far-out fringe stuff from running rampant here and they have worked well IMO, so a strong discouragment of partisan political discussions combined with a strict adherence to the existing rules might work just fine to minimize the friction.

[MycoChondria]

Originally Posted by TVCasualty

A lot of topics tend to stray into politics, or are political by their very nature (global warming, terrorism, etc.) so discussion of those subjects will occasionally flare up into the kind of unproductive name-calling and divisive negativity that the banning of 'politics' is meant to prevent. So, somehow a line needs to be drawn, but that is so arbitrary and subjective that any such line would be a matter of opinion and become a political issue itself.

The wide-ranging discussions that happen here are part of 'Topia's appeal, and it's interesting to see the broad spectrum of beliefs held among a bunch of people who are mainly connected by a love of psychedelics. I'd like to occasionally get into healthy debates about climate change or terrorism, and it's unrealistic to expect to be able to eliminate political friction so I'd rather tolerate some of it than try to ban it all. It would open up 'Topia to being criticized as forcing some kind of adherence to an official party line even if that were not the case, and that might be off-putting to potential new members.

It's opening a can of worms if we do, and a can of worms if we don't. I guess there really is no escape from politics (well almost; I just remembered one- ). The trick is going to be how to not throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water...

I definitely think the ban on politics through this campaign season has been an amazing success, even though I've been chompin' at the bit to post some awesome satirical pics of the candidates. The greater good has been served by my not posting them, however and 'Topia has been a great refuge from the campaigning.

obichip's comment summed up my take: The rules that are already in place prevent personal attacks and propaganda or far-out fringe stuff from running rampant here and they have worked well IMO, so a strong discouragment of partisan political discussions combined with a strict adherence to the existing rules might work just fine to minimize the friction.

I think we have the correct balance right now. Discussions about current events issues should be allowed. Interjection of electoral and partisan politics is crossing the line.

[Dr_T]

Originally Posted by TVCasualty

I've been chompin' at the bit to post some awesome satirical pics of the candidates.

See now, if we could just post the pics, and laugh at them, and then scroll on without posting anything or getting hurt feelings... that would be cool.

Ain't happenin' though.

[Hippie3]

right- Resist & Rebel
will still cover non-partisan political issues important to us,
but the personalities and the parties can stay out.

[sangraal]

I vote "nay" with partisan politics, with the current limitations on political/government discourse already being plenty good. It's just way too sensitive of an issue with a lot of people and bashing of one political figure based solely upon party registration easily turns into finger pointing which only leads to flame wars and an inevitable rash of hate amongst each other. There's plenty of good forums out there that's just fine with that... look at the discussion boards on Fox if you want to see how a simple article about a person can turn into pure venom.

[farmerjohncc]

This is the only candidate I'm interested in.

[chimp]

"Timothy Leary's Dead"

The moody Blues

[cutty]

Im not really into politics too much...but shroomz thats a diff story :P

[Fresh Brewed]

As I've posted here before, I think Hip was spot on in banning partisan political discussions. Interactions I've had in my work environment have made it clear to me that political discussions with those that disagree with you leave a bad taste in everyones mouth and political discussions with those that support your view is equally unproductive mutual mental masterbastion. I've made it clear to the people that I live and work with that I am no longer discussing politics with anyone. Releasing the responsibility for defending my guy and pointing out the deficits of the other guy has had an amazingly calming effect on my life...I recommend it...decide what you will, I blissfully won't be joining in.

[malefacter]

I tell people at work that its a secret ballot for a reason.

and truthfully i havent noticed much difference since the ban so lets keep it

[wildburr]

Originally Posted by oibchip

"Timothy Leary's Dead"

The moody Blues

"No No, he's outside looking in"

[Doctor D]

Keep it out, please. I'm tired of it all. No candidates, issues on a case by case basis.

[KingKanibalKiller]

Originally Posted by Dr_T

There's a lot of smart people here- it would be fun to discuss certain issues.

Any chance of 'some tolerance' of politics, in a sub-forum?

+1 as long as we realize everything is subjective

[CoyoteMesc]

I see nothing productive and bad blood to be made. Many folks(whether they know it or not) really take their political beliefs VERY close to their heart. I vision those feelings to carry over into other threads of the forum and minds being closed off from learning 'from that left fielded idiot' ...if you know what Im saying. IMO

[TVCasualty]

Originally Posted by farmerjohncc

This is the only candidate I'm interested in.

Timothy Leary? Well now, I've heard some strange stuff about that fella that really makes me wonder...

Oops, I forgot:

Originally Posted by Hippie3

right- Resist & Rebel
will still cover non-partisan political issues important to us,
but the personalities and the parties can stay out.

Fans of Leary, McKenna, Castaneda, or whoever might think everyone here would be into them also (we like tripping, they like tripping, so we must be on the same side!), but every personality is going to have admirers and detractors, and that will result in conversations that tend to become indistinguishable from partisan politics; 'pro' and 'con' groups will butt heads when they meet just like the dems and repubs do. Deciding when to pull the plug on a discussion is the personal judgement call of whoever has that power, and so will always be somewhat arbitrary. That's fine so long as the community feels that power is being used fairly, otherwise we risk driving off good people.

So, banning any actual campaigning for political candidates will help a lot to maintain a positive vibe, but there will always a need for mods I suppose and some friction is inevitable and needs to be tolerated.

By the way, abortion is an abomination against God... Whaddya say to that?

For many that's a genuine belief and not a flame, but we know where that conversation would lead so we'd probably shut it down. People who are anti-abortion will then see this site as unfriendly to them and so not join. People who are anti-most-drugs-but-pro-mushrooms might feel the same way, so after awhile a forum will naturally develop its own political 'personality,' and that's being partisan, is it not?

Using this many words usually means I'm not feeling confident that I'm relating my thoughts very well. Hope I'm making some sense and that I had a point in there somewhere...

[Hippie3]

well, i reckon some folks we can live without,
stridency on any issue is not where i want to go.
our doors are not open to just anyone=
read the mission statement -
'like-minded individuals' is what i seek.
i am the standard by which all here are measured.
i'm not racist
so racists are not welcome.
i'm not a homophobe
so gays are welcome and gay bashing is not.
arbitrary indeed.
and yet it works.

[seymorebunz]

Nay

[Sidestreet Getaway]

Nevermind, I think it's been pretty well covered

[Hippie3]

low voter turnout even here

[the jesus]

Nay on the partisan stuff, but yay on question 2 for all of you in MA

[BuddhaIntheSky]

I think we should have non-candidate related discussion. I'm curious what the folks here think about forms of government, the ideal society, an awakened society and how psychadelics, should, shouldnt, have to or cannot play a role in the last two points.

[Hippie3]

i've re-opened the poll
but the original vote still stands.
76.92% against.

[catdaddy]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

right- Resist & Rebel
will still cover non-partisan political issues important to us,
but the personalities and the parties can stay out.

I believe this is a perfect approach. Those who choose not to participate can opt out of those threads- no problem.

Catdaddy

[Oblivion]

My two bits- Nobody is forcing anyone to post on a political thread. We would all do it by our choice. Easy enough to not post there if you arent down with political talk. I vote let it happen.

[beautypath]

I agree that discussion of individual politicians or specific political parties should be banned. I do enjoy hearing what other psychonauts think and believe. We are all political one way or another, it's just a matter of degree. I try to stay informed, and a reasoned, dispassionate discussion of some of the great issues confronting our planet and all the life forms that inhabit it, is really needed.

A severe warning to anyone who gets nasty in their replies should be a rule. We all need to get along and not get violent, and this includes verbal violence which quickly escalates to physical violence.

Also let's keep the political stuff on Resist and Rebel. Anyone who doesn't like politics doesn't have to see it. Peace.

[mr mojo risin]

politicians always lie and with these lies control society up too the point of imprisoning fellow man for sowing a seed or seeking to better himself thru the use of sacred plants and fungus so in my opinion should be left at the door on the way in. politics is wrong. everyone is entitled to a view but when our lives are constrained by politicians the places where you can escape all that rubbish are few and far between, those places should be cherished. i wouldnt stop anyone from expressin how they feel cos that too is controling a seperate individual but perhaps it could be done where innocent fools like i cannot stumble into it like a bear trap. politics is unfair power given to those whos lives and experiences vary drasticly from those who their policys affect.

[Hippie3]

some people need to be controlled,
being unfit for freedom

[chlorello]

I think it's better not to ban discussion of a topic because the ban itself could be as divisive and negative as the discussion ever was.