Schwarzenegger signs ammo-regulation bill

[~Hippie3]

SF Chronicle-
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
(10-12) 18:28 PDT SACRAMENTO -- People buying ammunition in California will soon have to be thumbprinted and dealers will have to keep records of sales, under legislation that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law.
After vetoing similar bills three times since 2004, Schwarzenegger signed AB962 by Assemblyman Kevin de León, D-Los Angeles, on Sunday, saying he now believes it will promote public safety.
The measure is California's first statewide regulation of ammunition sales. It survived close votes in both the Assembly and state Senate and strong opposition from gun-rights organizations, which succeeded in stripping a provision that would have required sellers of more than 50 rounds of ammunition a month to be licensed by the state.
Starting in July, the law will require dealers to keep records of handgun ammunition sales for at least five years, and store the bullets securely out of customers' reach.
Like gun transactions, all ammunition sales will have to be face-to-face, a requirement that will force online buyers to arrange delivery of ammunition to a seller in California. Another provision makes it a crime to knowingly sell or give ammunition to someone who cannot possess it legally, including felons, gang members and the mentally ill.
As of February 2011, all ammunition buyers will have to provide a driver's license or other state identification and a thumbprint.
De León said Monday that the bill gives police "a valuable tool to crack down on armed, dangerous criminals and gang-bangers in our communities."
Opponents said the restrictions would burden gun owners and dealers without impeding criminals.
"Ammunition or ammunition purchaser registration, in any form, serves only to infringe upon the rights of law-abiding citizens," Gun Owners of California said while the bill was before the Legislature.
In signing the bill, Schwarzenegger said local governments that require record-keeping for ammunition sales have enabled police to arrest many illegal purchasers. Governments that regulate ammunition sales include San Francisco, Oakland, Tiburon and Contra Costa and Marin counties.
"Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe," Schwarzenegger said.

[bugs]

And a new black market is born.

[firerat]

As of February 2011, all ammunition buyers will have to provide a driver's license or other state identification and a thumbprint.
De León said Monday that the bill gives police "a valuable tool to crack down on armed, dangerous criminals and gang-bangers in our communities."

Smart thinking cause we all know "dangerous criminals and gang-bangers" purchase their ammo by legitimate means.

Opponents said the restrictions would burden gun owners and dealers without impeding criminals.

And those opponents are 100% correct. This is not going to negate any crime at all and is going to cost manufactures and distributers a lot of money. If anything, it's going to cause more crime due to the black market it will create.

Good Work Governator!!

It's like making a lighter illegal to stem the use of crack. Just stupid reasoning put into play from deep pocketed lobyists.

"Ammunition or ammunition purchaser registration, in any form, serves only to infringe upon the rights of law-abiding citizens,"

Just quoted for simple truth.

"Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe," Schwarzenegger said.

By making it harder for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS to purchase ammo?

You already need all but a damn DNA sample to buy a gun in The People's Rebublic of Kalifornia as it is and yet criminals still seem to acquire guns quite easily.

Doesn't it seem interesting that the states that have the toughest (and dumbest) laws pertaining to firearms are also the same places where violent crime rates are the highest?

Enforce the laws that are in place. God knows there are plenty.

[Sideshow]

I wonder hom much a box of 9mm or .223 goes for these days in Cali....
Can you say "highway robbery"?

[rocketman]

Ahnold is a tool. Funny how a Republican can get elected and stay in office in the most undeniably liberal state in the U.S. I guess he is blurring the lines between the parties for some reason....maybe hes trying to pay back some recall election debts.

I agree with what was said earlier about how this action will create a black market for bullets. I suppose the thumbprint thing is not out of the question, but I do not see how this will save a single life.

The honest murderer will tell that he is mentally ill prior to trying to buy bullets to shoot his family or neighbors. The felons with criminal intent will not do anything illegal to obtain bullets, or even weapons for that matter. Not like they are felons, oh wait.

Sad when you cant buy a box of 100 .22 rounds without making it onto a government list.

[~Hippie3]

appears that the government is become afraid of
their own - law-abiding citizens...

[cannibusmannibus]

Stupidity at its best. Not ignorance like most government figures display. I'm sure he thought out this mess.

[ishkaboo]

Ahh such bullshit. Like this is going to curb gang violence at all. Let's hope other states don't follow suit.

[MooNChilD]

Maybe if they legilized pot they would'nt have to worry about people buying bullets!!!

[Oblivion]

Come on you guys, the governor knows best. You must understand that. You just cant see how good this will be that's all. I think we should have backround checks and waiting periods for ammo. It's the only way to save our children from domestic violence. If we get rid of our guns all together, then only the criminals and radicals will have guns. That makes it easier for the police to see who the bad guys are. You cant see that? You just have to learn to trust the governor and his kind. They know best, not you. Get that straight, you'll be a better person for it.

[Teonanacatl*38]

My thoughts on this, are not just that criminals will have unimpeded and easy access to guns and ammo. There is also the state and federal militia.
Just a question....

Why was the Second Amendment put in Place?

Any Takers?

[Jordan86]

Originally Posted by Teonanacatl*38

Why was the Second Amendment put in Place?

Any Takers?

Because "a well regulated militia" at the time, was "necessary to the security of a free state" back before we had an army, air force, and navy.

[~Hippie3]

we had an army before we had a country

the concept goes back in time to the middle ages and earlier,
the lords wanted every able-bodied serf to bear the expense
of weapons and armor while they had the divine right to
require military service for specified time periods every year.
the Swiss still require every household to have a military-quality rifle.
the citizens ARE the 'militia', the posse comitatus-'power of the county'.
when there were no standing year-round professional armies
it was a matter of survival for the state [kingdom]
that the serfs/citizens could be called to assemble [levee en masse]
already equipped with their own arsenals.
this was done as recently as the War of Northern Aggression AKA 'civil war'
when most CSA soldiers equipped themselves.
but being 'common law' was deemed an inadequate protection
and the constitution was formally amended to preserve the long-standing tradition.

[Jordan86]

We were weak militarily. We were frightened of creating a strong standing army when we didn't have the money to fund one, and we didn't know for sure if the new nation would have enough political stability to avoid becoming a military dictatorship, but we knew we needed defense of some sort. A lot of people already had guns and liked guns. So, the second amendment.

If we would have had even modest military capabilities without a militia I don't think there would have been a second amendment. We were afraid to give everyone the right to vote, we were afraid of mob rule, so why would our founding fathers be thrilled about arming everyone unless they felt it was a military necessity?

[hallucinogeneti]

According to the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101303491.html
His approval ratings have dropped to 27 percent. Related?

If any shit goes down, we still got the michigan militia.

[finite_synapses]

I love this shit. Someone who goes hunting can easily use a hundred rounds in a week, but the fucking gang-bangers only use a few a year, if that. So what's the point, honestly? Why don't they just ban small firearms if they're so vehemently against gang violence? I mean, it's not sensible to massively regulate ammunition, as ammunition could easily be distributed illegally. Banning handguns wouldn't work either, but it's not quite as plainly stupid as this law... fix the people, not the guns.

[freedum]

Originally Posted by MooNChilD

Maybe if they legilized pot they would'nt have to worry about people buying bullets!!!

didnt they do that already? all my friends in CA have there "prescription card"
heck even a few of them have legal farms out there.

[Sideshow]

Originally Posted by finite_synapses

fix the people, not the guns.

See, but that's it right there. They can't fix the people; there is no overall fix, so the politicos go after the symptoms.

[finite_synapses]

no overall fix? how about the elimination of massive amounts of poverty, high school dropout rates, and the creation of stable households and positive environments? I mean, shit, if I were in an inner city, I would just move the fuck outta there. But for the families that basically have no parental involvement in the child's well-being, I'm sure they have other things on their mind. Probably making sure they can hold down their 3 jobs, or smoke dem rocks, or regretting they ever got knocked up. There are too many factors to consider and too many reasons kids grow up on the streets, but an ammo regulation bill won't solve jack. It's all about the environment, and the environments these kids are exposed to inherently breed violence. You can't solve a problem by going after a by-product of the problem.

[suckerfree]

sounds like a good reason to start making your own ammo...

and they only got to keep the records for 5 years...? I can wait 5 years...

[ishkaboo]

Yeah manufacturing your own ammo is not too difficult. I have seen a friend do it before.

[~Hippie3]

Originally Posted by finite_synapses

no overall fix? how about the elimination of massive amounts of poverty, high school dropout rates, and the creation of stable households and positive environments? I mean, shit, if I were in an inner city, I would just move the fuck outta there. But for the families that basically have no parental involvement in the child's well-being, I'm sure they have other things on their mind. Probably making sure they can hold down their 3 jobs, or smoke dem rocks, or regretting they ever got knocked up. There are too many factors to consider and too many reasons kids grow up on the streets, but an ammo regulation bill won't solve jack. It's all about the environment, and the environments these kids are exposed to inherently breed violence. You can't solve a problem by going after a by-product of the problem.

you sound like sam kinneson when he joked
about starving africans needing to
move out of the fuckin' desert.

but folks live where they can afford to,
and urban ghettos are about as cheap as it gets
without being outdoors you know ?
i'm sure millions would love to get their kids out of crackton
but they cannot afford suburbia nor the countryside.
they're stuck.

[mycobsession]

Originally Posted by suckerfree

sounds like a good reason to start making your own ammo...

I thought this because I reload myself, however someone I know who follows this issue closely told me the law covers components as well.