hamas wins majority in palestine's elections- world on the brink ?

[Hippie3]

just when you thought
it could not get any worse...
better re-visit that
surviving armageddon thread, friends.
some folks say
israel will strike in the spring against iran,
whom some think
already has 1-2 atomic bombs
and has recently been moving
ballistic missiles into range of israel
at the same time
as it pulls it's oil money out of western banks.
iran has also reduced oil exports
to just 1/3 what they were.

factor in that
hamas still vows to destroy israel
as does iran,
sharon's still brain dead
and israeli elections are due in spring.
israel may feel it has no choice
but to act decisively.
stock up on water, food, fuel, etc.
could get rough.

[Hippie3]

just some fun for the mystics-
apparently
besides all the 2012 prophecies
there another interesting one-
there was a woman who foretold
the names of the popes a few centuries ago
and the list stopped
at the 111th pope
after which
the end times would stop the line of succesion.
well,
guess what ?
the new pope
is number 111.

[Jacsprat]

Like it or not.....thats damocracy...
sharon out Hamas in....whew what a mix up.

[Hippie3]

the germans paid a high price
for electing hitler.
guess the people gotta take their lumps
in a democracy.

[Hippie3]

btw
i hear that
the iranian PM whateverhisname
is a believer that we are in the
end times,
he thinks the last iman/prophet will come
kinda like the second coming of christ [antichrist ?]
in the near future,
and geo. bush thinks
jesus is coming soon too.
since all sides think
the end is near
we gotta wonder about
the soundness of their decision making processes.
they may try to trigger
armageddon.
2012 ain't that long away.

[Raul del Angelo]

I think that Hamas is a much larger deal
than we normally think of. In news reports
we generally hear it called the militant wing
of Hamas when they shoot those damn Katushka rockets.
I think in Palestine people look at
Hamas as a social welfare organization as well
as there bombing activities. I've read that
Hamas runs hospitals, schools, care for the
elderly. I have often wondered why they
continue associate their anti-Israeli activity
with the name Hamas because it just seems
to cause them trouble.

Israel lies on land that was previously
Palestine. I would think that their anti-Israeli activities
could be considered patriotic there.

I noticed that when the Iranian president said
that they should have carved up part of Germany
for the Jews, the Europeans became really cranked.
I wonder if the European, the Russians, and the Americans
wanted Israel formed is because they didn't want the Jews in
their country's. It's a weird thing because after we
went to war to free the conquered nations of Europe
we allowed the conquering of Palestine. It's very difficult
to figure out world politics and history when the hidden
motives of racism and religious intolerance. The world might
be a lot safer place if there was a small section of Bavaria
that was now named Israel.

Peace, Raul

[Hippie3]

there's no way israel is going to just pick up
and move to germany.
that's pretty crazy,
they had 6 million+ gassed there not that long ago,
certainly not long enough
to forget.
further
it's not exactly accurate to say there was a palestine there first,
it all depends on how far back you go.
before israel
it was a league of nations british protectorate province
before that it was part of the ottoman empire [turkey]
and before that nations like syria and egypt took turns,
the arabs who came from mecca to drive out
the jews and christians,
then there were the crusaders,
the romans,
and before that there was
persia, assyria
then back to israel
then back to canaan, etc.
but
even since the united nations
gave the land to israel
it's been israel.
the Palestinians got pissed
and stormed out,
armed and supported by fellow arabs
they launched several wars to seize the land
but failed.
and now israel has
between 200-350 nuclear warheads
and the means to deliver them.
but their conventional army and airforces
are enough to ensure
israel isn't going anywhere.
and the sooner people accept that reality
and accept a 2 state solution
the better we'll all be.

[Dogfield]

Originally Posted by Raul del Angelo

I think that Hamas is a much larger deal
than we normally think of. In news reports
we generally hear it called the militant wing
of Hamas when they shoot those damn Katushka rockets.
I think in Palestine people look at
Hamas as a social welfare organization as well
as there bombing activities. I've read that
Hamas runs hospitals, schools, care for the
elderly. I have often wondered why they
continue associate their anti-Israeli activity
with the name Hamas because it just seems
to cause them trouble.

Israel lies on land that was previously
Palestine. I would think that their anti-Israeli activities
could be considered patriotic there.

I noticed that when the Iranian president said
that they should have carved up part of Germany
for the Jews, the Europeans became really cranked.
I wonder if the European, the Russians, and the Americans
wanted Israel formed is because they didn't want the Jews in
their country's. It's a weird thing because after we
went to war to free the conquered nations of Europe
we allowed the conquering of Palestine. It's very difficult
to figure out world politics and history when the hidden
motives of racism and religious intolerance. The world might
be a lot safer place if there was a small section of Bavaria
that was now named Israel.

Peace, Raul

I have to agree with all of this.
Although,correct me if I'm wrong but history shows that Isreal( or there abouts) is the rightful home of the Jewish people so I guess that would be their argument form claiming it back.

I don't go with the whole 'end game' idea.
There maybe a big turning point,which will result in an end to extremist religion(hence no popes past 111)and a change in global society, but not the end of the world.
Some psychic connection with our real makers. Maybe they have just been waiting for us to develop our communicaton systems before they introduce themselves.
Or maybe they will just put the knowledge into peoples heads
that there never was a god, it was them we could sense.

[dead_diver]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

btw
i hear that
the iranian PM whateverhisname
is a believer that we are in the
end times,
he thinks the last iman/prophet will come
kinda like the second coming of christ [antichrist ?]
in the near future,
and geo. bush thinks
jesus is coming soon too.
since all sides think
the end is near
we gotta wonder about
the soundness of their decision making processes.
they may try to trigger
armageddon.
2012 ain't that long away.

Damn, don't ya just hate those self fulfilling prophesies

[dead_diver]

2012? Fuck, that's the year I become eligible to collect my pension

[Hippie3]

i wouldn't bet on cashing that check.

[Jacsprat]

hamas has declared the distruction of Israel

along with Iran.

And Prez is up for election and ain't taken sheeettt

off anybody....

This should be a very interesting next few years

Interesting change of heart you've had there hip. Just last month, elections in the middle east were such a good thing. You even thought it was a good thing when the islamics won in Iraq. After all, the people voted. That's democracy. Now they've voted in Palestine. That's democracy too. You often wailed against Arafat over corruption. Now his party has been thrown out and replaced by the opposition.

Oh, and one more thing. When the UN 'gave' the land to Israel, the Palestinians did not get mad and storm out. They were forcibly evicted from their homes, farms and land. Thus the state of war that has existed since. Perhaps this is the beginning of actual peace, not the end of it.

As for the end times scenarios, there's been a 2,000 year old series of whacko's, one right after the other calling every news story that comes out a sign of the end times, yet here we all are. It's bullshit this time just like it has been bullshit for the last 2,000 years. These primitive people and their desert tribal dieties have no power over whether the world 'ends' or not.
RR

[marsofold]

It was St. Malachy in the 1100s who predicted 112 popes till armageddon. And supposedly the next one is the last. Personally, I find it hard to believe that if Iran gets the bomb it will have the self-restraint not to use it or share it with the terrorist groups it supports. And when the first major city in Europe or the USA is vaporized by terrorists, the world will change...

[Hippie3]

what change of heart ?
i still think the elections were good and proper.
it's the results that are alarming
but hopefully it'll all sort out over time.
or not.
and while superstition is silly
what people believe
has power and it matters.
and it's not entirely true that all of the palestinians were forced out,
plenty left of own free will. many remained, too.
jews were likewise both forced and volunteered to leave arab lands.
never just one side to any story.
but
it's pretty moot
as international law and the un
has come down solidly on the fact
that israel has a right to exist
within the 1967 borders.

Originally Posted by Hippie3

as international law and the un
has come down solidly on the fact
that israel has a right to exist
within the 1967 borders.

I'm certain Israel could pull to the 1967 borders, and turn that land over to the Palestinians for a state, and live in peace. The Arab world would recognize their right to exist and the world could move on. It's the so-called right wingers who are preventing such a move.
RR

[Grateful_soldier]

Originally Posted by Rodger

The Arab world would recognize their right to exist and the world could move on

Somehow I dont see that....

[Hippie3]

It's the so-called right wingers who are preventing such a move.

are the iranians
and their puppets hezbollah and hamas
considered to be
right wing or left ?

[SharkieJones]

I have to agree with Rodger on this one. Portioning out a piece of land for the Palestinians as it was in 67 would go a long way to difusing alot of the mid-east.As far as the Arabs being forced out when the Jews took over I also have to agree with Rodger. My father and my grandparents were forced out of their home of 50 years at gun point. My uncle had both of his arms broken when he was only six to prove that they meant business. I still hold the deed to that home and I still hope that one day I will be allowed to reclaim the property and make my father's dreams come true. As far as Hamas being elected I think that people were sick of the Fatah movement for their inability to negotiate and get anything done, not to mention the corruption and mismanagment of public funds. I hope that Hamas will relinquish their violent ways for the sake of diplomacy but somehow I am doubtful. I guess repression has to have an outlet unfortunatly. Also I think that the time of Israel having a land in Europe is long past and both sides just need to live side by side as it was back in the day, an uneasy peace between two peoples who hate each other.

I meant the right wingers in the knesset and their financiers in Washington who regard any concession of land as a violation of the bible.
RR

[Hippie3]

don't think anyone can blame the palestinians
for dumping out fatah/plo.

[SharkieJones]

Agreed.

[Raul del Angelo]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9941/

This is a good place to see about the various
end of time prophecies. It goes way back to
before the Christian era. The first Christian
end of time prophecy is in the book of
Revelations. It says that the end of time will
come and Christ will return before the last
apostle is dead. So I guess that one was a
miss.

If anyone believes that the earth will end in
April of 06 or in April of 07 as recently prophecised
and they would like some extra cash I'll buy their
property at 25%and take posession after the fateful
date. I don't have a lot of cash but some of you
guys could sell out now and enjoy the money and
your house. When the date comes you could go
up in the Rapture and I'll juat take posession
and live with the rest of the mortals. You know
though that I bet Pat and Revrend Jerry have
got contracts through 2012.

Raul

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by marsofold

It was St. Malachy in the 1100s who predicted 112 popes till armageddon. And supposedly the next one is the last...

um, hate to quibble
but the number is 111
and the new/current pope, benedict, is to be the last
[assuming the prophecy is right]
see
http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp
Saint Malachy O’Morgair (1094-1149)

[Hippie3]

The first Christian
end of time prophecy is in the book of
Revelations. It says that the end of time will
come and Christ will return before the last
apostle is dead.

again i hate to quibble
but this is incorrect.
the first end of days prophecies
in the so-called new testament [christian gospels]
is given by jesus himself
gospel according to luke
chapter 21
way before the book of revelation.

Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
Luk 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign [will there be] when these things shall come to pass?
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by.
Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Luk 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
Luk 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


note that he said the prophecy would be fulfilled in a generation,
not necessarily before the last apostle died
but the 'generation'.

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by Rodger

I'm certain Israel could pull to the 1967 borders, and turn that land over to the Palestinians for a state, and live in peace. The Arab world would recognize their right to exist and the world could move on.RR

pretty optimistic view.
seems to me
that if the 1967 borders were acceptable to the arabs
they would not have attacked israel
in 1967.

[Hippie3]

what intrigues me
isn't any one prophecy,
it's the convergence of
several independent threads of prophecy
from the hopi indians
to the maya,
the visions of the catholic children given the church at fatima, portugal,
[ see http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/ap...ti/fatima.html]
the number of popes,
even mc_kenna.
when one looks at that kind of coincidence
and evaluates the statistical probability
of such,
it just kinda makes me a little bit nervous,
esp. in light of current events.
i was a boy scout
so i like to be prepared
or at least pleasantly surprised if i'm wrong.

[Hippie3]

Fatah's in the streets,
riots seem imminent.
perhaps even civil war in gaza.
cnn's streaming live video
gunfire, destruction of property
very tense situation.
the demonstrators are demanding
the resignation of abbas,
the pm and leader of fatah itself.
they call him traitor, collaborator
and blame him for
their election losses.
so much for bush's endorsement yesterday.
kiss of death over there
to be endorsed by america or israel.

ps-
fatah announces that it will not
participate in a coalition government
with hamas.
hamas will rule alone.
there are reports
of gunfire and clashes between
masked fatah and hamas supporters,
at least 3 wounded so far.

[Grateful_soldier]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

note that he said the prophecy would be fulfilled in a generation,
not necessarily before the last apostle died
but the 'generation'.

I am far from a bible scholar but I have heard and read the scriptures mentioned in this post and I have always been told that this speaks of, not the generation being spoken too, but the generation that see's these signs. like I said, I am far from a Bible scholar but ever since I was a child, this is how it was interpreted and explained to me. Call me a quack if you want but I do believe in it.