general Archive through December 03, 2004

[willey]

(thx bush for OUTSOURCING our vaccine prduction..talk about nat'l security issues jeesh!)

Better to thank the trial lawyers for reducing the number of US manufactors of vaccine to one. Example: 1 in 50,000 people will have a irreversable reaction to DPT (diptheria-pertussis-tetanus vaccine). A few settlements for a few million a piece has reduced vaccine producers from about a dozen in the 1980's to one now. Now consider the accepted fatality rate from diptheria is 5% for children. Are we better off with or without vaccine?
Better to thank Clinton for making it unprofitable to produce vaccines in the US. In 1993 the Clinton's decided that vaccine makers profits were unreasonable and decreed they could have no more than a 2% profit. With lawsuits, insurance payments, sour economy and goverment buying vaccines for children from manufactors 'at cost' its a miracle that any of us can get a flu shot.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

In 1993 the Clinton's decided that vaccine makers profits were unreasonable and decreed they could have no more than a 2% profit.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
really ?
can you give documentation ?

[morella]

Philemon, no need to be sorry for asking questions concerning a biblical phrase inscribed over the door to a temple to Isis:

"Evil men have killed my beloved and where his body is I know not"

"Come to me all you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest"

Isis worship began in Egypt and didn't make its way over to Rome until the 1st century B.C. Isis mourned for her murdered husband and brother Osiris. Non-christian sources tell us, "Cyril, the Bishop of Alexandria, had openly embraced the cause of Isis, the Egyptian goddess, and had anthropomorphized her into Mary the Mother of God".(Helen Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled). I would like to add that Bishop Cyril lived from 375-444 A.D., long after the advent of Christianity.

You also asked about why the Nag Hammadi texts are any less legitimate than the canonical gospels. Constantine did not invent the doctrine of the divinity of Christ. Prior to 325, there were canons and creeds in existence. Check out the 'Maratorian fragment' on google- the oldest known list of scriptures copied from the Greek original in 170 A.D. No ancient canon list included gnostic scriptures. Marcion, who was a gnostic, didn't even include them in his early canon probably because they hadn't been written yet.

Valentinus who coined the term, "the All", has been thought to be the author of The Gospel of Truth, The Gospel of Thomas and The Gospel of Philip. Basilides used the phrase, "absolute nothingness" and may have also influenced the Nag Hammadi texts. Simon Magus spoke of liberating Sophia(spirit) from matter, a theme we find in The Revelation of Adam (see Hippolytus, Refutatio Vl, 19.5). The Nag Hammadi texts represent a synthesis of Christian, Greek, Jewish gnostic, and Persian concepts. They do not represent the origins of Christianity but are important in that they give us a glimpse of early christian gnosticism.

There is no evidence that Constantine was able to destroy or alter every NT manuscript. He had no control over the eastern churches where gnosticism flourished. In fact, most of our modern NT is based on pre-Constantine manuscripts, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd century: The Beatty Papyri(90-250 A.D.)and the Bodmer Papyri(150-200 A.D.).

[righty]

I'm doing a persuasive speech next week on corporate drug testing and figured the people here might have something to say about it.
I would appreciate it if posting things like "it's dumb," can be avoided, I need to make an argument not make myself look like an ass clown.
Give it to me

(Message edited by righty on November 08, 2004)

The only thing I can offer is a experience with the corporate policy called "Random" drug testing.

About once a month human relations would basically come through and tap four people from are department. They would go to the clinic for test.

One time a girl refused and they threatened her job and this went on for a few weeks the threats finally they dismissed her.

Well she sued now the rest is speculation on my part and a good argument in my opinion when it comes to "Random" testing is if someone one where tapped two times in a row I would consider this "harassment". I think this was the argument anyway and this company stopped this policy.

This testing was above and beyond the hiring type testing and any of our customers could also ask for a test as a condition of a contract and many did test everyone.

Well hope that make sense pretty tired tonight.
Good Luck.

Peace...

[pskovinsky]

Hmm, whoops, oh well. I aplogize then, my bad.

Still, the time to think about new laws and try to get rid of them is before they have been passed, once a law is on the books getting rid of it is nearly impossible.

[righty]

Thanks Duke, I am thankful for any help I can get.

[willey]

Well Hip, my brain is hurting while looking for my 2% quote for the past two hours. Thus I will retract that number,....for now. However I do have a website for a good read and there are hundreds similar if you look under "vacines for children" program on the web.
http://www.jhsph.edu/PublicHealthNews/Mag_Fall02/v accines.html

[rio]

You and your boyfriend
will come back from your trip together
better, happier, more content
people.

[rio]

I think that drug testing
should only be used on
people in high risk jobs.
Like jobs were they could get
hurt, or hurt other people.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

once a law is on the books getting rid of it is nearly impossible.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
not really,
a court can strike it down
congress can repeal it.
after all
abortion used to be illegal
until they made it legal.
alcohol was banned by constitutional amendment
yet it's legal now.
any law a congress enacts
another congress can revoke.
and that's why i'm not overly concerned,
i understand that nothing is permanent,
not even the damage done by bush inc.

[chnop35]

Well, Imo, most corporations drug test as part of the application process. So, upon passing the test and hiring occurs...does the employeer get a drug free employee? No. They get a person that quit smoking for a few weeks or drank some concoction and passed the test.
The person then continued smoking or doing whatever once hired. Granted, not all people use "drugs", but those that do will probably continue.
Enforcing with random tests usually keep people clean, for fear of losing their job and it going on record.
Its insane, to drug test one time, on application. It doesn't mean a thing.

(Message edited by chnop35 on November 08, 2004)

[chnop35]

I heard, btw, they have a new test that is done by swabbing the inside of the cheek.
No more fluid sharing!!!!

You could sa something to the effect of "A corporation should only concern itself with the working life of its employees, if there is no problem with a persons work, the corporation should have no problem with them. Many of the people who fail a drug test and are consequently fired could have been loyal hardworking employee. A drug taking employee does not necessarily constitute a problem either for society or the corporation"

Hopefully that might be of some use.

You may also want to explore Ayahuasca , a South American concoction that is known for it's healing properties .

Hi,
thanks.
Can you name an internet shop who is relyable for buying some Ayahuasca?
Like good quality and price...
I'd really like to try it, maybe in some time, I just have to get used back to simple tripping....
Is it safe to get it by mail? Or any trick suggested to skip postal control or something?
thanks,
Lupa

[rio]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

if there is no problem with a persons work, the corporation should have no problem with them. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Bouncing Bear (a sponsor here at Mycotopia) is a good source . The plant material (B. Caapi and P. Viridis) itself is legal to buy . I'm not sure about Italy , but here in the states it becomes illegal when you mix the two plants together . Separately they are not psychoctive (well , not much ) .
http://www.bouncingb.com/

Here's a link to an interesting and informative tale of one man's (Alan Shoemaker) journey with Ayahuasca :
http://chinchilejo.yage.net/grace.html

In my "job" I only test people when they do something really stupid on the job. Something that damages a customers property or something like that. If they so something really stupid I just fire them and forget the test.

If someone is getting high at work, chances are they will do something stupid. They will cost me money. If they get high at home on their own time I could care less.

Most people who use weed are very good workers. They show up everyday, and give me few problems. I know many of my people smoke weed at home. This is no business of mine.

You will find that most companies follow this unwritten policy. Testing people every month is expensive. It depends on how your state structures its "workmans comp". Some states require monthly testing of a certain percentage of employees, some do not.

The key is to do your job, be the best at what you do. Do not be so open about your drug use. Don't wear tie dyes to work etc. Older smokers know the game, people over 30 or so.

One also needs to remember the relationship between employee and employer. An employee basically whores himself out to the employer 8 hours a day in exchange for money. I would consider it to be a form of servitude. Thats the way it is. As far as employers having a say in what you do after work there is very little you can do legally if they do not want you doing drugs. My advise would be to find another job if they want to be like this, or start your own business.

Drug testing is here to stay. Its now required by some insurance companies. There is no way anyone can challenge it. Even employers who do not want to do it, have to do it. I would consider it to be idiotic to challenge a drug test when you are using ILLEGAL drugs in the first place. If weed where made legal, which is unlikely, you might have a case. Tort reform is also coming. From what I gather it will also include provisions that will make it very difficult for an employee to sue his or her employer.

I want some opinions on which form it would be better to do first. What is a better introduction to the dmt experience?

i would say vaporizing 5-meo, its more intense and doesnt last nearly as long...so if you dont like it, it will end quickly...the 4-6 hours of ayahuasca can be a very long journey...

[morella]

The temple door with the inscription is located in Denera, Egypt. I forgot to mention that Egypt became a Roman province in 30 A.D. The Romans were known to combine Greek, Jewish and Christian religions. "Isis" is actually the Greek/Roman version of the Egyptian goddess Aset.

(Message edited by morella on November 09, 2004)

[maliki]

Be sure to include in your speach the comparison of legal drugs to ilegal drugs. The person who smokes a jpoint at home is far less a problem then the person who has a perscription for say colonipin or valium Tranqulizers and pops one every 4 hours.
perscription drugs in the worplace can be just as bad a problem as ilegal ones. So where do you draw the line ? Because an employe tests positive for an elegal substance does not make them more of a risk then the person who had a perscription.
Simply put it is descrimination due to a legal status... good luck with that one.
I would key in on where do you draw the line from perscription to non perscription and what exactly is the diffrence other then legal status

[llama]

Zim has a good point about the duration. Better to not spend hours in an experience you're unprepared for. However, be aware that 5-MeO-DMT and N,N-DMT (what is commonly known as just "DMT") are completely different substances, though they do often get confused. Some would say 5-MeO-DMT has the opposite effect of N,N-DMT.
Peace,
Llama

you can use the foliage in a vaporizer ?

5-meo-dmt is a synthisized chemical...usually a white crystaline, by vaporize i mean any method used to heat the substance to disperse it into the air to be inhaled, either a vaporizor (i dunno if it would get hot enough tho) or with a pipe and lighter

"5-MeO-DMT and N,N-DMT (what is commonly known as just "DMT") are completely different substances, though they do often get confused. Some would say 5-MeO-DMT has the opposite effect of N,N-DMT."

And unless I am severely confused N,N-DMT is what is in psychotria viridis, correct?

I don't think I will be trying 5-meo, at least not until quite awhile after I have already tried both N,N-DMT and ayahuasca.

Are the experiences of N,N-DMT and ayahuasca drastically different (besides the obvious difference of duration)?

It seems that although smoking DMT is a much shorter ordeal, people generally have more favorable responses to ayahuasca. Is this true?

im sorry i assumed by smoking DMT you meant 5meo...assuming makes an ass out of u and me

Omni,

What is it you hope to gain from the experience? Ayahuasca is a much more holistic experience. Smoking DMT is a much more powerful experience, but it lacks the depth of Ayahuasca. If you just want to open the veil that separates the worlds smoking DMT is the way to go. If you want to have this experience, plus a mind/body purification Ayahuasca is the way to go.

Ayahuasca, from my experience sticks with you longer. From my experience smoking DMT and drinking the brew are 2 different things. Give them both a shot, there is much to be learned from both experiences.

"t seems that although smoking DMT is a much shorter ordeal, people generally have more favorable responses to ayahuasca. Is this true?"

Yes it is. Ayahuasca is taken to purify the mind and body, and to enter another universe. DMT is smoked to just go to another universe. Do them both if you have the opportunity.

The key is to understand what sort of society you live in and profit from it. I think this whole debate has more to do with some sort of illusion that weed will be legal someday. That to test for it now is wrong. What a bunch of masturbation. I have heard this shit for 30 years, its a bunch of crap, It will never happen. LOL! I wonder if people know that political activists live very well on the money people give them. NORML is a fine example of this.

One might be better to learn how to screw society and profit from its ignorance. Once you reach a certain point in this society as far as wealth goes you can do what ever you want. You can smoke bud 24/7 and no one will mess with you. They key is to have enough money to buy this power.

In reality we have 2 choices, and only 2 choices. We can live on the fringes of our society, at the bottom of the barrel, scratching. Or we can learn to make money off the fools that make up the majority.

This past election was a fine example. One can take sides or one can ride whatever wave forms from the hurd. I chose to ride the wave, screw the hurd and create my own personal world where I can do whatever I please. Instead of crying and being silly, I will take advantage of the very society that believes.

Think about it, you realy do not have a choice. This is reality in a country where the masses are so easy to manipulate. Where attention spans hardly exist longer than the most popular sitcom. The key is to use this to your own personal advantage. Dont fight it! Create a public reality and a private one. Screw the hurd before they screw you and do not follow the illusion that any mass movement that promises you power or rights. It has never worked in the past, nor will it in the future. You will find yourself feeding the game of another, rather than your own.

Americans just put a conservative bible thumper into office again. You can only expect things to get worse as far as these things go. It is always better to be at the right hand of the devil, than in his path. Learn to play the game, play it well and you will have your own small game to do what you want with. Fight society, and you will find out very quickly what it is to be destroyed by the hurd.

This is reality. I dare anyone to show me a different way that has worked. I dare anyone to show me a social or political movement that was not set up to profit those at the head of this group.

Arg..

I sound like a real prick, but the reality is that drug testing is here to stay. Neither you nor I can change this, so we had all better adapt and overcome.

There are ways to get around this. Starting your own bussiness is one of them. Living at the very bottem of society is another. Working odd jobs etc.

Be creative, stop crying about the way things are, becouse you cannot change them. Adapt, use your head.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

vaporizor (i dunno if it would get hot enough tho) or with a pipe and lighter<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Vaporizing is better than smoking but is usually reserved for plant life and not chemically synthisized "crystals" which to me is akin to harsher man made drugs.

"Smoking is the most primitive way known to man to inhale a substance. When one smokes, the substance is heated to very high temperatures, sometimes well exceeding 1200ºF. This temperature (which is much hotter than necessary for inhaling the flavor and essence of a plant) burns the material and causes it to be converted into smoke. The smoker can then inhale this smoke in an attempt to obtain some of the benefits of the substance.

Although not without some benefits, smoking has substantial dangerous and hazardous side effects including the production of many carcinogenic and harsh byproducts such as smoke and tar. Simply put, smoking is the equivalent of driving a nail into a small piece of wood with a sledgehammer. There is a better solution.

Vaporization heats up the material only to the temperature most effective for gently releasing the pure flavor and active elements. In this optimal condition there is no burning and there is no smoke, only pure vapor." - www.air-2.com

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Isis worship began in Egypt and didn't make its way over to Rome until the 1st century B.C. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
that could easily be disputed
isis is just another incarnation of a far older goddess cult of ishtar/astarte
which was widespread in the entire region
several centuries before rome was built

Or. . . .

Carry a small bottle of clean pee in your pants at all times. Shoot some nitrogen into the bottle before you screw the lid on. It will last for two weeks at body temperature during work hours as long as it goes in the refrigerator every night. I'm also subject to randoms and haven't flunked one in many years. As roo said, learn the system and profit by it.

[morella]

Yes, Isis is a variation of the goddess Astarte. Astarte means, "the woman who made towers" which identifies her with Babylonian goddess Semiramis, who claimed to be the mother of the "promised seed" in Gen 3:15. The idea of a miraculous conception was taken from the prophecies of the promised deliverer who would not have a human father for he would be the "seed of the woman" (Gen 3:15).

I wasn't very clear, but I was trying to make the point that the temple door inscription does NOT prove that Jesus quoted from Isis. The Dendera temple was not ancient; Construction began in 30 B.C. by a Greek Emperor and it was not completed until 200 A.D.(by a Roman emperor). The Romans, as I mentioned earlier, liked to borrow from other religions.

thanks very much! it sounds all pretty interesting!
I guess that the law aspect here should be the same...I'll check.
Best regards,
Lupa

This is all too weird to read!
Can they really do that?
drug testing at work?
Sounds mad and totally inhuman!
You don't need to know if someone uses drugs to know if he's worthy at work or not...
I've never ever heard of anything like that here, which is Italy, btw. It only happens in the army here and in agonistic sport of course, even if it's fake...
Not that I'm proud of this country, but this point is at its favour. Maybe sometimes it's a luck to be in such a retrograde place to live...
bye, all
Lupa

I think the motivation is liabilty and health insurance costs. Anyone else ?

Peace...

oh, sorry,
I now realized i maybe sounded a bit harsh.
Didn't mean that. I know we're all victims of the society we live in, here we have the most ridiculous man ever at power:Berlusconi!!!
So no wonder if one day he'll introduce here this drug test at work too!
Society sucks, as the beats used to say...
Basically I agree with what Dr Hyde sayd though.
Let's not get overexposed ever!
It's not worthy, it's not smart!
bye,
L

"I now realized i maybe sounded a bit harsh."

Didnt sound harsh just sharing my opinion on why they are done. I am sure others have other thoughts.

The company I was speaking of is Italian (Comau)
Heard of them ?

Peace...

The company I was speaking of is Italian (Comau)
Heard of them ?

No, not really.
Anyway, having no experience of this, I don't know why they are done, which reasonable explanations they give workers.
It seems to me that it just gets the worker's life worse, because it's not 'fair' to live under menace, it's just that sort of a constant pressure that adds to everything else and results into ulterior stress.
And it comes from the prejudice that who uses drugs can't 'produce' as much as others.
Maybe this is partially true if one overdoes it and in the wrong moment of the week, but if one can handle one's habits, in a compatible way with one's rhythms of living, it just couldn't harm anyone!
I mean, it really 'is' a prejudice and anti-privacy and it could easly result in social emargination without really any 'practical' reason!
I think the real why, beyond the surface, is that they want to exert the more possible control over people that extends even further job-time.
Fear is just the system's tool of control and i think that if we start justifying them for any apparently useful reason, we just do their game.
Well, no news, but really, people don't need drugs to be lazy, incompetent, cheaty or unoperative or whatever one shouldn't be at work. This one of drugs is just an excuse for creating a threatening, false, biasful environment.
Maybe one day there will be a new minority movement, call it of the 'users', but as a matter of fact, it is a minority (even if always less) and who knows that in the future there will be manifestations and reclaim for rights of this minority like back in the 60' there where for gays, coloured, whatever....
Dream on....

[cleanjar]

Carry a small bottle of clean pee in your pants at all times. Shoot some nitrogen into the bottle before you screw the lid on. It will last for two weeks at body temperature during work hours as long as it goes in the refrigerator every night. I'm also subject to randoms and haven't flunked one in many years. As roo said, learn the system and profit by it.

canya hook me up man???

i just applied for a job that im pretty sure will test me if hired..

hook me up??

[cleanjar]

well i just applied for a job i might get
and they drug test before hiring people.

.....i don't smoke much pot

i haven't smoked for maybe 5 days
before that i puffed a puff or two
for a few days in a row

i usually get completely ripped off
of just one or two puffs of commercial herb.

anyways, my system is probably mucked up with thc.

i was thinking of somehow using my dads piss
or even my moms piss
they're the only ones i know that
would be clean from POT hehe

if i can get hired for this job
what do i do
how do i do it?

um, 3 days and lots of water from last smoke... that's all ya need man. Drink juice and shit too cause too much water and some places will throw your test out.

[nerve]

5 days? yeah just don't smoke anymore and drink lots of fluids etc. Day of the test continue to drink lots of fluids and piss as many times as possible before u go in. Also when u give the sample (sorry if this is a bit too discriptive but i think its necissary) be sure to use urine from the middle or end of the stream as the beginning will be the most concentrated.

Basic idea: Dilute Dilute Dilute.

I passed a test for drug counseling this way, test was taken on a tuesday and i had smoked a stupid amount of weed over the weekend, i was amazed it worked, you should be fine.

I know that taking some sodium carbonate (is that how you call it? the white powder) might help, an advice from a friend who was in the army.
Some of it, like half teaspoon after eaten for these three days, not more or it'll break your stomach!

bye,
l

Make sure you drink a variety of fluids. If you dilute too much they may throw it out depending on what company administers it. When you take in lots of fluids your body gets cleaned out. If you plan on drink a lot of just plain water try and take a multi-vitamin to help replace shit that should naturally be there... this way they don't "know" you just diluted yourself down.

<font color="0000ff">A job? When will you have time to attend to us?</font>

I have taken many of these and have always passed. I have done about everything you can think of. The main thing is drink water till your gonna burst and then drink more and take the multi-vitamins also.(give you color) There are detox tea's at GNC if you are so inclined. There is also Goldenseal root there too which I have used. I also would never give the first wiz of the day as my sample.

Good Luck!

Peace...

[meatwad]

got a texan syringe from sporelab, boiled my jars for hour and a half (no pc, i just boil for a super long time) pf tek cakes btw..

Gave myself a lysol bath and washed hands with alochol before injecting..
Injected 7 days ago
4 days after injecting, it kind of smells like brf really strong.. Also, the points where I shot the spores in, the vermiculite is a light color of yellow.. barley noticable, barley and brighter then the verm, but definetly in the 4 spots where the spore solution was injected..
its now been 7 days and looks exactly the same, and smells the same, the yellow hasen't grown, and neither has mycelium..