| Mycotopiate
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 479
| Caapi/harmine/rue + MG/Rivea Corymbosa aka Ololiuqui/HBWR trip accounts
Has anyone else in dreams had a trip with this combo? Curious as to how it turned out. All of the experiences that I have read so far appear to be positive & euphoric in nature with distinct afterglow periods.
Caapi's agonism of 5-HT[2] and dopamine D[2] and highly probable norepinephrine/noradrenaline agonism would serve to further bring out the effects of the MG extraction. THH is present in caapi in concentrations almost equivalent to the ones of harmine in certain varieties. What is known of THH pharmacology indicates very different features from both harmine and harmaline: An inhibitor of serotonin, dopamine & norepinephrine/noradrenaline reuptake.
From the chart at wikipedia on LSD receptor agonism, LSD is seen to have great affinity for 5-HT[2], dopamine D[2], and some low activity at adrenaline receptors as well: Lysergic acid diethylamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (see chart under Pharmacodynamics)
The antiserotonin activity on the isolated rat uterus of LSA (LA-111) has a value of 4 on a scale on which LSD-25 is 100.
The values for LSA/iso-LSA conformations would most assuredly increase with caapi enhancement imho.
Here is a list of the recent caapi/rue/harmine + MG/HBWR/Rivea Corymbosa aka Ololiuqui reports I know of (this list is small...this appears to be a very recent phenomena):
(1) Firegod420 (Feb 2007): Quote:
4 of us took a water extraction of 300 seeds and 300mg of harmine hcl. The trip for us all was extremly intense 3 of us felt no nausea at all the whole trip, one of us purged at the end but did not feel sick it was more of a ayahuasca type purge, Great Medicine. It was like the best of mushrooms, ayahuasca and lsd all in one trip it lasted 12hrs with about 12hrs of afterglow effects. Great knowledge of self was learned, and we all say we are going back this weekend it was so great. This combo has ALOT to offer!
I did hcl extraction of rue and slowly boiled it down to a dry extract. HCL acid extractions of Rue are said to convert most of the harmaline over to harmine thru the gentle oxidation. Harmine is way lighter on your system then harmaline which is the major aklaloid of Rue. From expierence imma have to say this is tru! I also have references to this if wanted.
Also a 3 hr water extraction of 1200 Heavenly Blues and pearly gates from burpee seed company.
Both extractions were filtered through a cloth then freeze decanted and filtered again to get rid of solids!
The trip was very intense, and visuals were overwhelming!
| editor's note: 300mg of harmine is way too much imho, 200mg is plenty sufficient even for a person who weighs 240 pounds. Nausea & dizziness can result from too high a dosage of harmine (over 200mg).
(2) Firegod420 (April 2007): Quote:
Yet another positive RUE and MG combo has been reported from a close
friend of mine... He did no extraction and just crushed and ate both and to
my surprise no nausea(smoked alot of trees which def had a adverse effect
on that) an a complete mind blowing trip, heavy visuals both
OEV and CEV were reported and a intense education...
| (3) Fevereddreams (Mar 2007): Quote:
I've only tried rue+HBWR, never MG or rivea. However, with 5 seeds HBWR and 2g rue I had an extremely visual, extremely euphoric +3 for 12 hours. All for less than a dollar. I use a cold water extraction to speed up the process of getting it in me, then eat the seeds too, taking the rue in capsules.
I'm really thrilled with what this does to me, it feels so healthy and natural.
I, in my dreamy state of mind, at one point during the experience thought that this must be the legendary Soma. I concluded it to be more likely B. Caapi and MG/R. Corymbosa though, due to their geography. I was of course, dreaming at the time, but it was a fun thought. I felt the same way as the people you quoted, there is just no way I could understand a "bad trip" happening. The euphoria was so steady through the entire course of the experience, and it very slowly tapered off, giving way to the somatic properties of HBWR until I eventually lulled of to sleep, still quite happy. When I awoke the next day I immediately noticed a residue of uplifting elation from the night before, which also slowly returned to normal after 2 more days.
| (4) druiddream's friend's full report (June 2007): Quote:
Just wanted to thank you for the Morning Glory thread. Yesterday I had my first experience with this Green Elder with a cold water extraction in phosphoric acid, ph 3. I shook my little muslin spice bag 4 times in the hour, filtered crudely through coffee filters and Kleenex, then put it back in the fridge until the next day. I used 8g. of "Ipomoea tricolor" from Bouncing Bear, and the experience was wonderful. I had 1g. of raw rue seed 2 hours before, taken in yogurt so I wouldn't have to chew them or taste them. The experience lasted from 11am to 6pm, with a distinct afterglow period where I was totally baseline, but I was still full of energy. I wish I had explored CEV's more, but I got some impressive visions that were totally unlike anything I'd seen in Ayahuasca, and more like the paintings of Dali or Magritte (for example, a pyramid with an eye in the center floating on clouds was something I saw).
Unlike ayahuasca, this WAS NOT SCARY at all and felt really nice in the body, and was easy on the mind.
Please read how you've inspired me! See the Plant World Forum: Yopo/Vilca as Medicinal Herbs. The cold water extraction seems to be generalizable to seeds with nasty seed oils, such as yopo and Syrian rue.
When I made Syrian rue with cold water methods, the liquid (which usually makes me retch just smelling or tasting it) comes out clear of any rue smell or taste, which all stays in the bag. I used a muslin spiced bag with a coffee filter folded up inside it containing the ground seeds.
Not only has the LSA thread revolutionized LSA prep, but also can make Syrian rue and yopo more user friendly...
One hour, shaken every 15 minutes, filtered with plain old coffee filters and Kleenex. Kept in the fridge until the next day. He smoked mapacho and caapi leaves from time to time and found the experience *very* interesting, lasting for 6 hours. Eyes closed visions (not just visuals, but fully-formed visions) were nothing like he had ever seen before with ayahuasca -- totally different. He saw lots of the "eye" motif, with an eye in a pyramid against a brilliant blue sky and floating on clouds. He also had a lucid dream in which a phosphorescent snake encouraged him to try to follow him through a portal in the corner of his bedroom, but the snake slithered through, while he, the lucid dreamer, couldn't figure out how to perform the same trick. The 6-hour period was followed by another 5 of afterglow, and it continued, he said, into the next day very strongly.
He had no nausea of any kind, and no sedation from Heavenly Blues (Ipomoea triclor). He told me it felt very much like being sped up on lots of caffeine or kratom. The day was very full and active, as opposed to meditative and serene at home, as with aya. He went all over town, cleaned house, did things he had postponed for months at home in the way of repairs and cleaning...l
A word of warning! I only drank 1/3 of the portion and got effects similar to yours one hour later. He thought it was a dud, and went to the store, and it hit him while he was standing in the checkout line of the supermarket. He said the body effects made it difficult not to just drop everything and start dancing and singing! He had another 1/3 two hours later, and the last 1/3 two hours after that. The visions came more or less later in the experience, but the body effects came early on. Effects were not sedating at any time. He was relaxed and super energetic.
It's hard to just lie down and achieve CEV's because it's difficult to remain still and calm in the beginning. CEV-observation is more conducive towards the end of the experience, he said, unless you especially adept at sitting or lying still long enough to trance into the CEV state amidst the excitement, which makes one want to dance around and sing!
| editor's note: druiddream's friend in the 2nd to last paragraph is referring to the 1 to 2 hour lag time before effects are felt from lsa/iso-lsa conformations as opposed to LSD where effects are often felt within 45 minutes. This same lag time has been noticed by other experienced persons.
(5) found this older report from !fourthripley (May 2006): Quote:
I've said it before, but will repeat MG's + harmine/harmaline make for a strong trip, with definite-not wispy, hypnagogic- CEV's, OEV's and...well you'd have to try it. No wishy-washy colour enhancement, vaugue LSA effects; a trip comparable to decent doses of mushies or sid. More people should try it. With no real evidence I, personally, believe the effects people seek are got due to LSA- read Hoffmans studies of pure, lab material- but ergonovine/ergometrine.Thats just the strong hunch of an uneducated dolt though.
Personally, I'm pretty convinced that LSA is pretty irrelevant to Morning glory effects.Used alone, these seeds produce only a 'cheap stimulant' type of buzz. For interesting effects- and this may well be dangerous- I use them as the active ingredient in an aya type brew. I've done this on three ocasions, upping the dose each time, and it reliably produces a very trippy experience with colours flashing, transparent geometric e.o.vs and bright eyes shut ones.At the highest dose I experienced strong auditory distortion as well.Lasting a worrying- at the time- 14 hours. Nothing sleepy or halfhearted about it at all.I'll post a more detailed write up of my experiences- if anbody is interested- when I've more time.
Back to the sort of theme of the thread; I'm convinced that the interesting effects of the convulvalaece come fro the trace chemical ergometrine, used as a migraine treatment I believe.In TIKKAL, Shulgin mentions an experience with this drug that kind of matches my experience.I think the LSA is just noise, obviously unless you have other plans for it...
What I would do-and it's at least four years since I have done it- was grind a small amount of P.Harmala, about 3-5 g's(heaped teaspoon) let it steep ten minutes in boiling water, drink(yuk!) leave it fifteen minutes and simply chew and eat the seeds. I've done it at three dosages.Approx 10gs definite, plus 1.5; 15gs, the best, most enjoyable dosage, room was alternating colours, geometric visions, no harder on body than two or three pills; and 20gs to an ounce- had no scales at the time.This was extremely heavy but extremely rewarding.Horrid sickness and physical malaise throughout but the intensity...phew! One of the best trips of my life strangely, acid intensity but with a totally different, although related, flavour. A real sense of a real plant spirit, more so than other plant drugs. If it makes any sense, really in that green plant mind, among other things. Sitting inside the very first atom in the first instants of creation. I've got four pages of notes, don't suppose they make much sense either.
Practically though, I wouldn't go any higher than that dose.Amongst the sensory distortion, I had an idea there were the shadows of ergotism symptoms, circulation felt somewhat constricted. For females a caution also; my wife- who took a similar amount- described a lot of it as being like giving birth, mentioning 'dragging pains'- whatever they are. Worth doing though, but start small. The Maoi only needs to be a minimum amount.The experience interestingly, mirrors the chronology of acid almost exactly.
IMPORTANT POINT
The above was all done with Ipomoea Violicea, Heavenly blue seeds.From what I've read of HBW seeds, I think that combination could be very dangeous.
| editor's note: chewing & eating seeds is not recommended as toxic non-polars in the seeds can be rid of with a simple water extraction (they will be left behind in a tea bag dunked in water).
Gracie & Zarkov write: Quote:
Subjectively, the dose of LSD feels three to four times more potent than it actually is. The closed eye imagery is greatly enhanced with circular highly visible bright imagery visible on only 25 [sic] micrograms. On higher doses (150-200 micrograms) there was a feeling of an ancestral presence (we have never felt an outside presence on LSD alone in over several hundred acid trips but we have found it quite common when LSD is combined with another psychedelic).
The closed-eye patterns were "almost visions". That is to say they were clearer than hypnagogic imagery but not as overwhelming or clear as DMT visions. The visuals were more like clear dream imagery. The mood elevation was quite astounding. At one point one of us shouted "You couldn't possibly have a bad trip on this stuff." There were no mood swings and the buoyant elation slowly receded to baseline over the course of the trip.
Obviously I'm not endorsing anything, just want to point out that some people have had beneficial and interesting experiences from the maoi+lysergics combination.
| editor's note: druiddream's friend's method above using the muslin bag is the same method used by hermes in dreams except for the use of a teabag stapled shut, see posts below for more info on the cold water extraction CWE. Shamans used the same water extraction method except for using a loin cloth bag to hold the crushed seed matter while it is dunked in the water. Invisible College PDF Magazine (issue #2 article by Webster starting on page 24 of 90 talks about the 3 conformations of LSA/iso-LSA that form in a liquid extraction after an hour or more)
Morning glory LSA tea: Morning Glory (LSA) tea
Cold water extraction method: cold water extraction method
Brother Let your knees bleed: Brother Let Your Knees Bleed
8 gram MG help! 8 gram MG help!
MG, Wud he do wrong? MG, Wud he do wrong?
Morning glory seeds & cold perceptions: Morning Glory Seeds – Cold Perceptions. |
09-23-07, 11:44
trying to fully understand your post, could you re-explain your idea to the lay person in terms of what your talking about plz 
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