President Bush

[shroom_seeker]

Somebody on 'topia turned me onto YouTube a few days ago, now I can't stop. Here's a good one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_6B6vwE83U

[BuckarooBanzai]

As a public speaker, Bush really sucks.

[golly]

Oh My ,did someone say the B word...well i know where this threads going....And yes,he is a funny guy.....makes you laugh till u cry....

[explorerowid]

president bush sucks asshole..
anyone see American Flight93"?????
It's enough to make your stomache churn.
I hope he burns in hell.

[Mermaidia]

Check this out!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10704025/
It's a good things elections are coming up, not soon enough, though..LOL

[llamabox]

[dizzydank]

least i can say i did not vote for bush.

[SonOfGaia]

I really wish Texas had a better representation then this guy...

[Lazlo]

Bush=

[Hippie3]

really this thread has zero content to make it fit for R & R
looks to be strictly a bash thread and bush isn't even on the ballot

[Lazlo]

Moved to Trash Talk.

[Hippie3]

are you sure ?

[Lazlo]

oops! there we go.

[shroom_seeker]

Originally Posted by darksideoftheshroom

least i can say i did not vote for bush.

Yea, I have no problem admitting that I've voted against Bush, twice.
Unfortunately, last election I found out perhaps my vote doesn't count.

Here's a big reason why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gwdNIxecwY

[BuckarooBanzai]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

really this thread has zero content to make it fit for R & R
looks to be strictly a bash thread and bush isn't even on the ballot

On the not a good fit for R&R: yes

On the second point: he isn't on the ballot, but his agenda sure is.

And bashing the status quo just for being the status quo (espcially lame duck status quo) really is just such easy sport...

[Hippie3]

i beg to differ,
his 'agenda' isn't either
you have 500+ disconnected races,
not one single national candidate on the ballot.
the new york liberals will not get to vote in texas congressional elections.
people vote their local issues.
poll questions like
which party should run congress ?
are utterly irrelevant
as that question won't be on the ballot either.

[BuckarooBanzai]

When I say “his agenda,” I am making a rather unfair generalization about conservatism.

All I meant was that the classically conservative “trust us/stay the course” agenda, which I fell Bush and his administration personify, is a strong subtext to the current electoral cycle.

From that perspective, I do feel that the “stay the course” agenda is on the ballot.

I think these mid-term elections will have a larger than normal impact on the talking/focus points in the next national election cycle. Especially if these elections prove to be strongly supportive of a mandate (be that mandate democrat or republican). A strong response from the masses to either stay – or refuse – the current course could make for some major shifts from the current status quo in the coming presidential cycle.

The 500+ races aren’t really disconnected because of national affiliations and impact. A large percentage shift in either direction would certainly be trumpeted by both sides as meaning…something.

[Hippie3]

frankly i kinda hope the dems win enough seats
to ram thru some of their pacifist agenda
so the people can wake up
and realize the consequences
of their desire for fast, easy solutions
before the next election that matters.

all this talk of re-deployment is an euphemism for retreat,
and when we do retreat
al qaeda will sound their victory and our defeat
from atop every mosque from casablanca to quetta.
they said america had no stomach for war
when they declared war on us
and it appears that they were right.
their correct assessment will only fuel their war
into new regions
where again we will draw a line
only to walk away a few years later
because it's too hard...
and sooner or later
they will kill enough of us
to silence the critics long enough
to fight a real war to the bitter end.
it's just a damn shame
that many more will needless die
because there is political advantage
in playing to peoples' quite natural aversion to violence.
they think this will be like vietnam,
and the war will end with our departure
but that utterly ignores the global reach of jihadism.

while i don't like the man, he isn't a stupid person. I mean he graduated from hardvard after all. I've read an article from not too long ago that makes the argument that bush's messups in public are done on purpose in order to make him look like more of an everyday person - which would probably appeal to his supporters who are socially conservative evangelical christians.

[shroom_seeker]

Originally Posted by Transition Force

I've read an article from not too long ago that makes the argument that bush's messups in public are done on purpose in order to make him look like more of an everyday person - which would probably appeal to his supporters who are socially conservative evangelical christians.

LMAO- yea right. Well, I can say this for bush: He is smart enough not to go hunting with Dick Cheney.

[Hippie3]

i figure when you become president
then you have proved you are as smart as a president.
if you haven't managed that yet
what are you gloating about anyway ?
try it, it's not all that easy.
but if you're really so smart
should be a cinch, eh .

[shroom_seeker]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i figure when you become president
then you have proved you are as smart as a president.
if you haven't managed that yet
what are you gloating about anyway ?
try it, it's not all that easy.
but if you're really so smart
should be a cinch, eh .

Well I certainly don't claim to be smarter than the president.
However, facing the clusterfuck of a situation that the Bush regime has lead our country into, I will sit back and poke a little fun. And I pray that two years from now our country will be able to elect the leader they vote for.

[Hippie3]

i think people need to begin to understand that
bush followed a plan
that was created in the pentagon
and blame the generals for some of this mess.
bush did not craft our war plan,
he relied on 'experts' to advise him every step of the way.
the war colleges, the general staff, the civilian leadership
both at the pentagon and the state department-
this 'blunder' is the fault of many very bright well educated people
who had the job of crafting a winning strategy
and they let us down.

and you want to know the sad thing ?
the generals aren't up for election,
the next administration might be democratic
but the general staff will be the same people there today.
and the dems too will be forced to turn to those same generals
for a way out of the mess.
no election will fix that problem.

[BuckarooBanzai]

As to pacifism and consequences…well, I don’t really think America got 9/11 so, yea, really, we seem to need more examples. As a people and as a military I really don’t think we “get” the opponent in question here.

As to retreat, yah, we gotta do it. That or occupy Iraq forever. We have to deal with the consequences of that witdrawl, regardless. The sooner done, the better, IMHO. Combine that with the fact that our military may soon be needed for deployment upon the Korean peninsula and yea, I think we need to get the heck out of Iraq.

Regardless, we aren’t fighting these folks on their terms. The fighting we are doing is only making the problem wore, in terms of future attacks/attackers. Until this country gets serious about fighting the same way the opponent is fighting, anything we do is likely to become a quagmire/loosing battle.

You can not win a war against people who are comfortable strapping bombs on 12 year olds by quibbling about how to torture politely.

Without some massive changes in attitude and tactics, I believe we are doomed to utterly loose this “war on terror.”

[Hippie3]

i see no benefit in 'getting out of iraq as quickly as possible',
except perhaps temporary political benefit to those that lead the way.

wars have lasted decades before, and we have fought battles
wherein we lost more in a single day than all our losses in iraq to date.

i know what a military defeat looks like-
just look at france in the spring of 1940
or to soviet-occupied poland in spring 1941
or to south korea in summer of 1950
to see what a defeated army looks like.

but in iraq i do not see our forces being pushed into the sea,
i do not see one city after another falling into enemy hands
as we reel back from the onslaught.

all i see is a hard fight
and a nation that has no stomach for a hard fight.

the whole world will laugh at our humiliation,
and our enemies will be greatly encouraged
to continue their jihad until we flee the entire region.

i believe it was mao, perhaps uncle ho,
who called america a
'paper tiger'
and that is the truth it seems.

i am ashamed.

[shroom_seeker]

I think a lot of us are ashamed. But we have put ourselves in the middle of a war we don't belong, and most of the world feels this way. Sure we might look dumb when we pull out, but we look dumb now. I think a lot of people (from the U.S. and around the world) will actually respect our decision, especially if it is done the right way. We don't need to bring everyone home today, this year, or even next year. But sometimes, whether it be individually or as a whole, you have to say, "Hey, we fucked up. We are going to do our best to set this straight." A proper plan of withdrawl is needed. And when it happens, I respectfully disagree that the whole world will laugh at us in our humiliation.

[Hippie3]

of course we can agree that our ultimate objective is a successful withdrawal,
if by that we mean under conditions that do not abandon the iraqis to chaos
or annexation by more powerful neighbors.
success is not the withdrawal itself though.
withdrawal should come as a reward for victory,
not as a substitute.
even if it takes 50 more hard years to achieve.

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i see no benefit in 'getting out of iraq as quickly as possible',
except perhaps temporary political benefit to those that lead the way.

Here is a benefit for you: over 2 billion tax dollars each week. that's well over 100 billion dollars a year. our national debt is at its highest ever. how about we put that towards a balanced budget.

I don't feel comfortable that if the national debt was shared equally by every citizen, that it would give me more debt than i earn in a year. (Equally shared everyone would have to pay 29,000$ - i live a simple life and so i don't have need for a higher paying job)

the satisfaction of the vast majority of iraqis who all want us out of their country, and the majority of americans who also want us out of there

we will never win the war in iraq, plain and simple

why?

because they don't want us there, and they are armed

you cannot defeat an armed civilian population. that is a simple fact. that is why we kicked the shit out of the british in the revolutionary war and that is why germany never touched switzerland in ww2

Originally Posted by Hippie3

the whole world will laugh at our humiliation,
and our enemies will be greatly encouraged
to continue their jihad until we flee the entire region.

perhaps, perhaps not.

i don't know how much you have been listening to the news lately, but a few weeks back a report was leaked - which was confirmed by the government - that all 16 of our national intelligence agencies have confirmed that this war has actually *increased* terrorism throughout the world by islamofacists, and that a withdrawal would prompt a decrease.

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i am ashamed.

i am ashamed that the american public was lied to about the reasons for the war in iraq, that our government wastes trillions of our dollars each year on unconstitutional laws, that people like you and i are considered criminals for smoking marijuana when we have never harmed a person in our lives, and that our country is one of few that sanctions torture, and has tortured people who were completely innocent

call me treasonous if you will, but if my successionist friends in New Hampshire gather up enough support to make their cause practical, I would join them. I would gladly support any cause that would fight for the liberties that were protected by our constitution, but are not anymore

[Hippie3]

lol
good luck with that,
the last states that tried to leave the Union
didn't fare so well.

what i am ashamed of
is people who place money over peoples lives,
who think our national debt
is more important than living breathing human beings.

with that kind
i am deeply ashamed to share a national identity.

people who assert as fact
what simply is not true.
can't defeat armed civilians indeed,
utter rubbish.

the military said from the beginning
that it takes at least a 10 year commitment
to beat an insurgency.
but the cut-and-run cowards demand success in 3-4 years
or declare it to be impossible.

i hear you speak like all iraqis feel just one way-
you say they want us gone,
but not all do, many are begging us to stay
as the day we leave
is the day they will be murdered.
and i wonder-
since when do we ask a conquered occu