Economic Collapse/ Dooms day/ The Sky is falling thread

[eatyualive]

Originally Posted by catdaddy

"Or we can try to right the ship by paying down our debts, very slowly, by sweat and toil, navigating a treacherous course between the Scylla and Charybdis of the twin-flations, for as long as it takes. This is the only responsible course left we as we face the devastating consequences of our own credit delusions. Are we up it?"

Will our government wise up to this, or is there an overriding reason to continue poor economic policies to accomplish a different goal?

no they won't. they are trying to double our deficit by passing health care reform. if we took anything from the great depression it was to follow the same course by spending to get out of the hole created by spending. kinda like adding gasoline to the fire your standing on.

this gonna be a long haul.

[catdaddy]

I forget which one of the Obamaites said it, but it goes like this- "We shouldn't let a perfectly good crisis go to waste".

A glaring indication that economic disaster allows them to pass legislation that might otherwise be unpalatable to the populous,.

Unfortunately I believe they bit off more than they can chew with the healthcare bill.

But- my prediction- they WILL put it through, and no matter what the actual bill SAYS (and much of it is "still to be filled in after passage") when it is law, it will mean what they want it to mean.

[Lazlo]

I'm starting to have second thoughts as well. To me, it doesn't really seem like we've gotten anywhere since last September. Sure, jobs, large institutions, stupified government projects and benefits to the needy have been saved. But as far as moving forward with sustainable growth? Nada. I'm almost of the opinion that allowing market corrections on their own is the way to go. Drop taxes, extend benefits to the needy and just allow the week institutions to go under and be taken over by hands that actually know what they're doing. It's funny how all of the institutions that nearly went under are now popping in with their views and trades. A lot of them are wrong too. Nothing's changed at all.

[eatyualive]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

I'm starting to have second thoughts as well. To me, it doesn't really seem like we've gotten anywhere since last September. Sure, jobs, large institutions, stupified government projects and benefits to the needy have been saved. But as far as moving forward with sustainable growth? Nada. I'm almost of the opinion that allowing market corrections on their own is the way to go. Drop taxes, extend benefits to the needy and just allow the week institutions to go under and be taken over by hands that actually know what they're doing. It's funny how all of the institutions that nearly went under are now popping in with their views and trades. A lot of them are wrong too. Nothing's changed at all.

exactly the idea is to maintain the status quo. who profits off that? that might tell you something.

maybe they change a few things on the surface that make it look like change for the masses. but if you look at whats really being passed, whats really going on. look at the real issues and don't base judgment on any party affiliation or without bias. then that will tell you whos really running the country.

i agree with free trade. less government interference and let the people bring this country forward. grass roots. imho its the only way.

like hip said. let the government fill out paperwork and let us do the rest. and i don't mean free for all in the whole country. just let the market correct itself. spend the money in the right places. lessen the restrictions the states have to use their own taxpayer money for the issues they have in each scenario.

the fed is far to deep in everyones business. and they won't even be transparent. i have a feeling if they did release their numbers. the whole world would realize how really deep in the hole we are and stop sending us money.

[eatyualive]

Satan himself finally talks

THE US economy may witness double-digit inflation in a few years unless the central bank tightens up its monetary policy, Alan Greenspan warned.
"Unless we roll in this whole degree of expansion, we will be in trouble,” the former chairman of the Federal Reserve told a conference in Mumbai via videoconferencing.

“I am not talking 3-5 per cent inflation, I am talking double-digit inflation in the US.”
He said inflation in the US may begin to pick up sometime in 2012 unless measures were taken to roll back the huge monetary base.

However, the global inflation rate -- excluding food and energy prices -- will continue to go down through this year and into next year, he said, pointing to a considerably slack global economy.

Since last December, the Fed has kept short-term rates extremely low -- targeting them effectively at 0 per cent -- as it tried to help engineer a recovery both in financial markets and the broader economy.
With a recovery appearing to start, some are worried a continuation of the current policy will fuel a surge in inflation.

The Fed had recently said it would conclude its purchase of $US300 billion ($351bn) of US government debt by the end of October, and would slow the pace of remaining purchases in order to provide for a smooth transition from an easy monetary stance.

Meanwhile, US employers cut jobs in August at the slowest pace in a year, but a jump in the unemployment rate to a 26-year high of 9.7 per cent reinforced worries a weak labour market could weigh on consumer spending and the vigour of the economic recovery.

Finance ministers and central bankers from the Group of 20 economies on Saturday pledged to maintain policies designed to support economic growth, but left open when and under what circumstances governments would begin to go back on the stimulative policies as economies stabilise.

Mr Greenspan said tightening of policies is difficult, compared with balance sheet expansions, in a democracy.

He said the banks in the US need more capital buffer going ahead.
"Even in periods of non-crisis, non-euphoria, we need to have larger buffer than we currently have," Mr Greenspan said.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...018001,00.html

[eatyualive]

A United Nations panel weighed into the dollar reserve currency debate, arguing for a new system of soft pegs to correct severe deficits in debtor nations like the U.S. and surpluses in countries like China.
The report from the United Nations conference on Trade and Development, issued on Monday, said the world economy would be better off with a system where governments intervene when necessary to either defend or depress their own currencies.
"A viable solution to the exchange-rate problem would be a ..

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...08-704507.html

Job outlook hits worst-ever level

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Employers' hiring plans for the upcoming fourth quarter dropped to their lowest level in the history of Manpower's Employment Outlook Survey, which started in 1962.
A net -3% of employers said they'll hire in the fourth quarter, down from -2% in the third quarter, on a seasonally adjusted basis, according to the Milwaukee-based firm's survey of more than 28,000 employers. Before this year, the survey's previous low point was a net 1% hiring outlook for the third quarter of 1982.

'Green jobs' adviser resigns

After becoming embroiled in a controversy over past inflammatory statements, Van Jones, President Barack Obama's adviser on "green jobs," stepped down. Courtesy of Fox News.

A year ago, a seasonally adjusted net 9% of firms said they would hire in the fourth quarter. The Manpower survey measures the percentage of firms planning to hire minus those intending layoffs. Manpower doesn't measure the number of jobs. The survey's margin of error is +/- 0.49%.
There was one positive sign in the survey: 69% of employers said they planned no change in their hiring plans, up from 67% in the third quarter and 59% in the fourth quarter a year ago (those figures are not seasonally adjusted).
That's "a very high number for our outlook survey," said Jonas Prising, president of the Americas for Manpower. That figure generally hovers at 55% or 56% in a strong economy, he said, noting that the higher figure currently signifies a high degree of stability, and "that is a precursor to growth, he said.
"Employers really want to hold onto the work forces that they have if at all possible," Prising said. Still, "there will clearly be challenges for job seekers and employers into the fourth quarter."
Separately, the U.S. Labor Department said the economy lost 216,000 jobs in August, the 20th consecutive monthly decline. The unemployment rate jumped to a 26-year high of 9.7%. Since the recession began in December 2007, unemployment has increased by 7.4 million to a total of 14.9 million. See full story.
Industry outlook

Looked at by industry, eight sectors showed a negative hiring outlook for the fourth quarter. In January, Manpower changed its industry classifications; because of that change, it currently can't provide seasonally adjusted figures by industry.
Only one of the 13 industry categories surveyed showed an improvement from the third quarter: A net 2% of employers in the education and health-services category planned to hire, up from -4% in the previous quarter. Firms in the wholesale and retail trade category were the most optimistic, with a net 7% planning to hire. Still, that was a decline from a 9% outlook for that sector in the third quarter. See where there are jobs in this economy.
And hiring plans for all of the industries are at much lower levels than are normal in a strong economy. "For any of these sectors in a good economy a net employment outlook would be around the low 20s," Prising said.
For each industry, here are the figures for the net employment outlook for the fourth quarter, not seasonally adjusted, in order of most negative outlook first.

• Construction, -10%, down from 2% for the third quarter
• Mining, -9%, flat from -9%
• Transportation and utilities, -9%, down from -3%
• Government, -8%, down from -4%
• Manufacturing, durable goods, -8%, down from -6%
• Information, -5%, down from -4%
• Manufacturing, nondurable goods, -3%, down from 0%
• Other services, -1%, down from 0%
• Financial activities, 1%, down from 2%

• Education and health services, 2%, up from -4%
• Leisure and hospitality, 2%, down from 18%
• Professional and business services, 3%, down from 8%
• Wholesale and retail trade, 7%, down from 9%

By region

For its regional analysis, Manpower divides the U.S. into four areas. For each region, here is the seasonally adjusted net employment outlook for the fourth quarter:
Northeast, -5%, down from 0% in the third quarter. Manpower counts the following states in this region: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont.
Midwest, -3%, down from -2% in the third quarter. Manpower counts the following states in this region: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Wisconsin.
West, -3%, flat from -3% in the third quarter. Manpower counts the following states in this region: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming.
South, 0%, up from -2% in the third quarter. Manpower counts the following as part of this region: Puerto Rico and Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, West Virginia.
Industry breakdown

Here's a breakdown of what types of jobs fall into which industry category (industries are in alphabetical order):

• Construction. Residential and commercial builders; heavy construction (i.e. highways, pipelines); general and specialty trade contractors (plumbing/painting/electrical, etc.).
• Education and health services. Elementary and secondary schools; colleges and universities; vocational-technical schools; libraries; hospitals, clinics, home health care.
• Financial activities. Savings, lending institutions (banks, savings & loans, credit unions); insurance companies; investment firms; financial planners; credit agencies; real estate.
• Government. City and county government; court systems; correctional institutions; police and fire departments.
• Information. Internet service providers; television/radio broadcasters; newspaper publishers; book publishers; software publishers; motion picture production; sound recording; cable television.
• Leisure and hospitality. Hotels, motels; casinos; entertainment facilities; amusement and recreational facilities.
• Manufacturing -- durable goods. Stone, clay and concrete products; motor vehicles and machinery; electrical products and appliances; iron, steel and metal products; furniture and wood products.
• Manufacturing -- nondurable goods. Food and beverage producers; textile mill products; clothing; leather products; paper and paper products; commercial printers; plastics, rubber, drug and chemical products; petroleum refining.
• Mining. Metals mining; coal mining; petroleum and natural gas extraction; stone, sand and gravel quarries.
• Other services. Equipment/machinery repair; dry cleaning, laundry; personal care (hair, massage, nails); pet care; photofinishing; funeral homes/mortuaries; social services; membership organizations.
• Professional and business services. Business services (accountants, lawyers, engineers, computer and data processing); permanent employment agencies; car and truck rental agencies.
• Transportation and utilities. Passenger transport (air, bus, rail); freight transport (air, truck, rail); warehousing; telephone; electric, gas, water, sewer utilities; postal service.
• Wholesale and retail trade. Wholesale dealers and distributors; department stores, warehouse clubs; catalog and mail-order houses; auto and truck dealers; building materials retailers; fuel oil dealers and gasoline stations; grocery stores; restaurants.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hir...8?pagenumber=2

[Ras Asad]

lol

bring the shit already!

it will 'weed out" all the selfish, greedy fucks who care nothing about themselves,
and they will be no more.
only those who care, and want to help one another, will be left standing.

so fuck it,
bring the shit.
i dont give a fuck anymore.

all one giant crock of SHIT is what ALL of this is. !

"those with golden hearts would never wish to enter a bucket of shit"

[nuklearpsilo]

The "US" is dying.........................FASTER THAN EVER SON!

The population was, is, and will be zombified, demoralized, stupefied, desensitized, controlled, enlisted, malnutrioned, sidetracked, duped, robbed, raped, segregated, terrorized, enslaved, and/or exploited.

Sadly this "population" doesn't care and won't soon realize that they are already beyond the point of no return.

I mean it's fantastic that you get yourself armed and prepared to the teeth but when your local trigger-happy rookie cops get a hold of these.......


GAME OVA SON! GAME OVER!

Satan has succeeded. Fellow Americans you've seen the signs and have been warned countless times. Adios amigos.

Better move outta this shitty city wif ma zeeds'n'zpores! *knowhatImean*

[Ras Asad]

oh fo sho son! lol

tyme2watchbabylonbun2daground,sight? lol

[Ras Asad]

a warning to patriots everywhere...
from US soldier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkYkU...e=channel_page

here's his channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/oefsofsoldier

make of it what you will
or dont. lol

edit:
here is a vid. posted, and taken down shortly after.. (few hours later)
removed from ewetoob, ..
but it was found thru a cache.. lol
link

[eatyualive]

holy shit i want one.

[eatyualive]

[TVCasualty]

That guy seems about as annoyed as I usually am about this stuff.

[eatyualive]

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.
The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."
This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.
The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.
Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.
China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.
Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.
Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.
The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."
Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.
The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.
"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."
Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...r-1798175.html

[eatyualive]

Reporting from Washington - In the wake of the mortgage meltdown, the Federal Housing Administration has emerged as a pillar of the still wobbly housing market -- providing vital insurance that enables borrowers to qualify for loans with as little as 3.5% down.

This year alone the agency has backed nearly 2 million mortgages worth at least $328 billion. It insured 21.5% of all new mortgages last year, up from fewer than 6% in 2007.

Some lawmakers, however, worry that the FHA may be doing its job too well -- enabling too many people with shaky finances to get loans, and in effect setting up a potential repeat of the housing bubble fueled in part by no-questions-asked subprime loans.

Recent numbers appear to underscore those concerns. The percentage of FHA loans that are delinquent or in foreclosure climbed to nearly 8% at the end of June, from about 5.5% in early 2006, according to the Mortgage Bankers Assn. And in the weeks ahead, its reserves for loan losses are projected to slip below federally mandated limits.

"It's not the least bit implausible to be concerned about the ever-deteriorating performance of the FHA portfolio," said UCLA finance professor Stuart Gabriel, director of the university's Ziman Center for Real Estate. "The jury is out as to whether the FHA is going to need a government infusion."

The real estate industry believes the FHA is vital to the housing market because its insurance enables people with modest incomes to buy homes -- people who otherwise would probably be turned away by banks.

But because their initial investment is modest, critics believe, these borrowers have little incentive to stay in their homes if they are hit by a job loss or by another drop in home values.

"You have to ask the question: Have we figured out what got us here in the first place and are we going to make sure we don't replicate that failed system?" Rep. Scott Garrett (R-N.J.) said.



Those questions and others will be addressed today, when a congressional committee starts examining how the FHA's reserves for loan losses have dwindled so fast.

One proposed solution to the agency's troubles, backed by Garrett and others, is to raise the minimum down payment on FHA loans to 5%. Backers believe that will encourage borrowers to stay in their homes and not let them fall into foreclosure.

But new FHA Commissioner David H. Stevens said such a move could threaten the nascent housing recovery. A person looking to buy a $300,000 house, for instance, would have to raise an additional $4,500 for the down payment.

"All that's going to do is retard recovery," he said.

Stevens said the agency was making changes to reduce risk, such as lending to people with higher credit scores. And he insisted that the FHA, which has always been funded by mortgage insurance premiums, will not need a taxpayer bailout.

But the FHA is straddling a difficult, and potentially perilous, line -- trying to prime a housing recovery without overextending itself so far that it requires an infusion of taxpayer money.

"On the one hand, it's providing support to the housing market," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke told lawmakers last week. "On the other hand, clearly, I think it's fair to say that given the low down payments, there's certainly greater risk of loss there, which would be ultimately borne by the taxpayer. . . . So I think that's a trade-off that Congress has to look at."

The FHA was created during the Great Depression to help revive the devastated real estate market at that time. In the decades since, it played a vital, though secondary, role in the real estate market by insuring mortgages from approved lenders for people who had steady work but could not afford a large down payment.

The FHA program is funded by premiums paid by homeowners, and those premiums drop off after five years or when the remaining loan balance is 78% of the home's value.

When housing prices were soaring, almost anyone could get a subprime mortgage, and the FHA's importance was diminished. But with subprime lenders gone and banks hesitant to make loans with less than a 20% down payment, the FHA has become the only option for many home buyers.

"With the collapse of subprime, suddenly they're more important than ever," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a Washington think tank. "I don't know that they're prepared to take on that burden."

Congress boosted the agency's business last year by more than doubling the limit on the maximum FHA-backed loan, to $729,750, in Los Angeles and other high-cost markets. Through Aug. 31 of this year, the FHA had insured nearly 1.8 million mortgages worth at least $328 billion, or nearly half the total of $675 billion worth of mortgages on its books -- putting it on pace for its busiest fiscal year, which ended last week.

But the agency is also much more exposed to the volatile housing market. Experts worry that if home values start tumbling again, new FHA-insured mortgages would be underwater because of the low down payment.

Fraud by lenders is also a concern, according to an inspector general's report in June. The number of FHA-approved lenders shot up from 692 in 2006 to more than 3,300 last year, and the agency's business picked up in some markets, such as L.A., that were largely unfamiliar to it. Those factors, the report said, increased the risk of such lender abuse as fraudulent appraisals.

Alarm bells went off last month when the FHA projected that its secondary reserve fund would fall below the congressionally mandated level of 2% of all mortgages on its books. The fund was at 6.4% at the end of September 2007.

In the FHA's defense, Stevens points out that it requires borrowers to document their incomes and insures only standard, 30-year fixed-rate mortgages. Raising the minimum down payment would be an overreaction based more on emotion than facts, he said.

"No one's more risk-averse in FHA's history than me, but I do worry about people jumping to legislative solutions that are not based on factual information," he said.

Stevens touted changes he had made to reduce risk and rebuild the agency's reserves without a government infusion. He will appoint the agency's first chief risk officer and wants to require lenders to have at least $1 million in cash and other assets, up from $250,000, so they can cover more losses before they're passed on to the FHA.

"We're not going to need a taxpayer bailout," he said. "It's a fact."

David Kittle, chairman of the mortgage bankers group, said an increase in the minimum down payment would be "catastrophic" for the market.

"Why would you want to deter people further from buying homes when clearly you need to get homes off the market?" he said.

Some members of Congress, however, believe the risk may be too high.

"I'm concerned that the private market for loans with little or no money down has shifted directly onto the books of the federal government," said Rep. Ed Royce (R-Fullerton). "We need to make certain that taxpayers are not again on the hook for the failures of Washington."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0.story?page=1

[finite_synapses]

i don't get it... the government saw private corporations fail largely due to incompetence of the consumer coupled with exhorbitant housing prices, yet they think they can step in and provide for these people who know nothing about money management. Well, at least the private sector doesn't have to worry as much about collapsing again... crazy shit...

[Ras Asad]

Official US Government Warning - You're Screwed!

While the mainstream media insists on putting its' head in the sand for short term profit, the US Government is bracing itself for the inevitable - total collapse of the US dollar and economy - and that's official.

According to three reports isued by the Congressional Budget Office, US Federal Reserve and the US Treasury Department, everything points to a collapse and they say so in plain black and white.

For more details go to the following address: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article13977.html

Then run for 'them thar hills'!

lol,
fk em, bring it on , kids.

[eatyualive]

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/11/06/broader-unemployment-rate-hits-175/

The U.S. jobless rate jumped up 0.4 percentage point to 10.2% in October, the highest level since April 1983. The government’s broader measure of unemployment shot up even more, rising half a point to 17.5%. The comprehensive gauge of labor underutilization, known as the “U-6″ for its data classification by the Labor Department, accounts for people who have stopped looking for work or who can’t find full-time jobs. Its continuing divergence from the official rate (the “U-3″ unemployment measure) indicates the job market has a long way to go before growth in the economy translates into relief for workers.
The U-6 rate is now the highest since the Labor Department started this particular data series in 1994. It likely isn’t as bad as it was in the 1980s, when the headline unemployment rate hit 10.8%. U-6 only goes back to 1994, but a discontinued measure has a longer history. That old U-6 measure peaked at 14.3% in 1982. Through some calculation, a comparable measure can be determined in the current report. Under the old U-6 methodology, the October rate would be 14%, the highest rate since 1982, but still below the peak.
The 10.2% unemployment rate is calculated based on people who are without jobs, who are available to work and who have actively sought work in the prior four weeks. The “actively looking for work” definition is fairly broad, including people who contacted an employer, employment agency, job center or friends; sent out resumes or filled out applications; or answered or placed ads, among other things.
The U-6 figure includes everyone in the official rate plus “marginally attached workers” — those who are neither working nor looking for work, but say they want a job and have looked for work recently; and people who are employed part-time for economic reasons, meaning they want full-time work but took a part-time schedule instead because that’s all they could find.
In the coming months, the U-6 measure may be an important signal for the labor market. The official jobless rate is likely to rise through at least the first half of next year as more people return to the job market. That means Americans who now fall into the U-6 category, for stopping their job searches due to discouragement, will eventually fall into the U-3 category as they restart their job hunt.
A U-6 figure that converges toward the official rate (even an official rate that’s above 10%) could indicate improving confidence in the labor market and the overall economy. But the convergence could be months away. And when it comes, it will keep unemployment above 10% for a painfully long period.

Gold Jumps to Record Above $1,100 on U.S. Interest-Rate Outlook

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Gold futures jumped to a record, topping $1,100 an ounce, on mounting speculation that low U.S. borrowing costs will drive down the dollar, boosting the appeal of the precious metal as an alternative investment.
The metal reached $1,101.90 in New York, heading for a ninth straight annual gain. The dollar is down 6.8 percent this year against a basket of six major currencies as the Federal Reserve keeps its benchmark interest rate at zero to 0.25 percent to revive economic growth.
“Until Washington stops exploding the deficit, the dollar will continue to weaken, and gold is going higher,” said Tom Pawlicki, an analyst at MF Global Ltd. in Chicago.
Gold futures for December delivery rose $6.40, or 0.6 percent, to $1,095.70 on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, climbing for the fifth straight day. The price has gained 24 percent this year.
The jobless rate and low inflation will keep the Fed from raising rates until 2011, John Brynjolfsson, the chief investment officer at hedge fund Armored Wolf LLC in Aliso Viejo, California, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television.
The unemployment rate in the U.S. reached a 26-year high of 10.2 percent in October, the Labor Department said today. Consumer costs rose 0.3 percent last month, according to the median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.
President Barack Obama has increased the nation’s marketable debt to an unprecedented $7 trillion as the government borrows to fund spending programs intended to bolster the economy.
‘Massive Demand’
“There’s massive investment demand for gold,” said Christoph Eibl, a co-founder of Zug, Switzerland-based Tiberius Group, which manages $1.8 billion. “I see more liquidity pumped in to lift the economies from bad news.”
Seventeen of 23 traders, investors and analysts surveyed by Bloomberg, or 74 percent, said bullion will rise next week. Four forecast lower prices, and two were neutral.
This week, gold gained 5.3 percent, the most since April, after India said it purchased 200 metric tons of gold from the International Monetary Fund last month.
Other central banks may follow in a shift away from the dollar, analysts said.
Sri Lanka’s central bank, which has been purchasing gold for the past seven months, will continue buying the metal as a hedge against volatility in currency markets, Ajith Nivard Cabraal, the bank’s governor, said today. Cabraal, speaking in Colombo, declined to say how much had been bought.
Sri Lanka held 5.3 metric tons of gold as of September, according to World Gold Council data.
Gold ETF
Gold holdings in the SPDR Gold Trust, the biggest exchange- traded fund backed by bullion, declined to 1,108.34 tons as of yesterday from 1,108.4 tons on Nov. 4.
“We are rather concerned about the crowded nature of the gold market, for everyone, everywhere is long of gold and bearish of the dollar,” economist Dennis Gartman said in his Suffolk, Virginia-based Gartman Letter.
Silver, which has wider industrial applications than gold, declined on concerns that demand will falter because of the sluggish economy.
Silver futures for December delivery fell 3.5 cents, or 0.2 percent, to $17.375 an ounce. The price has climbed 54 percent this year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNhLqiexpaas&pos=2

comparison of other recessions to this recession

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/comparing-this-recession-to-previous-ones-job-losses-4/





Fannie to Rent to Owners in Foreclosure

Fannie Mae will allow homeowners facing foreclosure to stay in their homes and rent them for as long as a year, as part of the government's latest effort to help troubled borrowers, while keeping more foreclosed properties from hitting the housing market.


The "Deed for Lease" Program lets borrowers who don't qualify for loan modifications transfer their property to Fannie Mae in exchange for a lease. Borrowers-turned-tenants will pay market rents, which in most cases are lower than the cost of mortgage payments, and might be offered extensions when their leases expire.
Fannie Mae wouldn't say in its Thursday announcement how many homeowners it expects would take advantage of the program. The company acquired 57,000 properties through foreclosure during the first half of the year.
Borrowers have to demonstrate they can't afford their current mortgage, but can pay the rent. The borrower's mortgage servicer has to show the borrower didn't qualify for a loan modification.
"If you keep more people in their homes, it's better for the community. It's better for the financial institutions that own those homes," said Jay Ryan, vice president of equity investments at Fannie Mae. "Hopefully, less foreclosure product on the market will help stabilize those communities."
The initiative also would allow Fannie to keep inventory off already-saturated housing markets, and amounts to a bet the housing market would be stronger one year from now.
"I'm sure Fannie is hoping that when they sell the properties, the values will be higher," said David Berson, chief economist for PMI Group Inc., a mortgage insurer. "A year from now, we should be a year further into the economic recovery, and housing demand will be stronger....That will allow you to release homes that have been foreclosed upon but not put on the market."
The program could also help Fannie preserve the value of its nonperforming assets, because occupied homes are likely to hold up better than vacant homes, and rents would provide some income before the properties are sold. "If they can keep the property occupied and have at least some positive cash flow, that may end up being less worse than going the route of kicking them out and having a vacant home," said Thomas Lawler, an independent housing economist based in Leesburg, Va.
Housing advocates and some investors have long called for less disruptive alternatives to foreclosure. The program would provide a "big step" towards giving families housing security, said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic Policy and Research. The rental programs join a series of other initiatives designed to help borrowers who might not qualify for a loan modification.
Fannie will use a professional management company to handle maintenance, and properties that are sold during the lease period will include an assignment of the lease to the new owner.
The move by Fannie follows a similar effort by Freddie Mac that began offering month-to-month leases to owner-occupants who had lost their homes to foreclosure. The Fannie Mae program differs in one important respect: Fannie's foreclosed homes won't be listed for sale. In February, both companies began allowing tenants whose landlords had lost their properties to foreclosure to sign month-to-month leases.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125743289932030933.html

[Hippie3]

hear the lambs screaming ?
time to shear the poor of all their 'wool'[assets].
kinda like
mowing the grass.
we work and accumulate and gather wealth
then along comes a 'crisis'
that wipes out the lower economic ranks
leaving those with extra $$$$
to buy up the losses
dirt cheap.
then it starts over for the next generation.

[August West]

man, i hope they don't socialize healthcare,
that'd really increase the deficit.


also, i didn't really want to leave the links active in this article.
i just don't know how to remove them without gettting a pain in my ass.
hopefully, this doesn't infringe on any rules...


2014 or Bust: The Pentagon's Building Boom in Afghanistan Indicates a Long War Ahead

Thursday 05 November 2009
by: Nick Turse | TomDispatch.com

In recent weeks, President Obama has been contemplating the future of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan. He has also been touting the effects of his policies at home, reporting that this year's Recovery Act not only saved jobs, but also was "the largest investment in infrastructure since [President Dwight] Eisenhower built the Interstate Highway System in the 1950s." At the same time, another much less publicized U.S.-taxpayer-funded infrastructure boom has been underway. This one in Afghanistan.

While Washington has put modest funding into civilian projects in Afghanistan this year -- ranging from small-scale power plants to "public latrines" to a meat market -- the real construction boom is military in nature. The Pentagon has been funneling stimulus-sized sums of money to defense contractors to markedly boost its military infrastructure in that country.

In fiscal year 2009, for example, the civilian U.S. Agency for International Development awarded $20 million in contracts for work in Afghanistan, while the U.S. Army alone awarded $2.2 billion -- $834 million of it for construction projects. In fact, according to Walter Pincus of the Washington Post, the Pentagon has spent "roughly $2.7 billion on construction over the past three fiscal years" in that country and, "if its request is approved as part of the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill, it would spend another $1.3 billion on more than 100 projects at 40 sites across the country, according to a Senate report on the legislation."

Bogged Down at Bagram
Nowhere has the building boom been more apparent than Bagram Air Base, a key military site used by the Soviet Union during its occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s. In its American incarnation, the base has significantly expanded from its old Soviet days and, in just the last two years, the population of the more than 5,000 acre compound has doubled to 20,000 troops, in addition to thousands of coalition forces and civilian contractors. To keep up with its exponential growth rate, more than $200 million in construction projects are planned or in-progress at this moment on just the Air Force section of the base. "Seven days a week, concrete trucks rumble along the dusty perimeter road of this air base as bulldozers and backhoes reshape the rocky earth," Chuck Crumbo of The Statereported recently. "Hundreds of laborers slap mortar onto bricks as they build barracks and offices. Four concrete plants on the base have operated around the clock for 18 months to keep up with the construction needs."
The base already boasts fast food favorites Burger King, a combination Pizza Hut/Bojangles, and Popeyes as well as a day spa and shops selling jewelry, cell phones and, of course, Afghan rugs. In the near future, notes Pincus, "the military is planning to build a $30 million passenger terminal and adjacent cargo facility to handle the flow of troops, many of whom arrive at the base north of Kabul before moving on to other sites." In addition, according to the Associated Press, the base command is "acquiring more land next year on the east side to expand" even further.
To handle the influx of troops already being dispatched by the Obama administration (with more expected once the president decides on his long-term war plans) "new dormitories" are going up at Bagram, according to David Axe of the Washington Times. The base's population will also increase in the near future, thanks to a project-in-progress recently profiled in The Freedom Builder, an Army Corps of Engineers publication: the MILCON Bagram Theatre Internment Facility (TIF) currently being built at a cost of $60 million by a team of more than 1,000 Filipinos, Indians, Sri Lankans, and Afghans. When completed, it will consist of 19 buildings and 16 guard towers designed to hold more than 1,000 detainees on the sprawling base which has long been notorious for the torture and even murder of prisoners within its confines.

While the United States officially insists that it is not setting up permanent bases in Afghanistan, the scale and permanency of the construction underway at Bagram seems to suggest, at the least, a very long stay. According to published reports, in fact, the new terminal facilities for the complex aren't even slated to be operational until 2011.

One of the private companies involved in hardening and building up Bagram's facilities is Contrack International, an international engineering and construction firm which, according to U.S. government records, received more than $120 million in contracts in 2009 for work in Afghanistan. According to Contrack's website, it is, among other things, currently designing and constructing a new "entry control point" -- a fortified entrance -- as well as a new "ammunition supply point" facility at the base. It is also responsible for "the design and construction of taxiways and aprons; airfield lighting and navigation aid improvements; and new apron construction" for the base's massive and expanding air operations infrastructure. The building boom at Bagram (which has received at least a modest amount of attention in the American mainstream press) is, however, just a fraction of the story of the way the U.S. military -- and Contrack International -- are digging in throughout Afghanistan.

Rave Reviews for Kandahar
In March, according to Pentagon documents, Contrack was awarded a $23 million contract for "the design and construction of [an] Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance ramp, Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan." Last year, in the Washington Post, Pincus reported that a planned expansion at the airfield, also once used by the Soviets and now a major U.S. and NATO base, was to accommodate aircraft working for a Task Force ODIN -- an Afghanistan-based version of the Army unit which used drones and helicopters to target insurgents planting IEDs in Iraq. Today, Task Force ODIN-Afghanistan -- the acronym stands for "observe, detect, identify and neutralize," with a nod to the chief Norse god -- is up and running, and still reportedly piloted out of "Bagram in one of two small, nondescript ground control stations." Whether ODIN aircraft are also operating out of Kandahar Airfield is -- like so much information about the U.S. military in Afghanistan -- unclear. Certainly, though, many more NATO and U.S. aircraft will be flying out of the base once Contrack, as it notes on its website, completes its "[d]esign and construction of replacement runways with asphalt and touch down areas with concrete pavement" and "rehabilitation of 6 existing taxiways," among other projects.

Contrack's Kandahar contract is set to be fulfilled by late December, but like Bagram, the base already gives every appearance of permanence. "It's one of the busiest single runways in the world," Captain Max Hanlin from the 2nd U.S. Army Division's 5th Stryker Brigade told Agence France-Presse recently. Originally built to house 12,000 troops, Kandahar Air Base now supports 30,000 or more NATO and U.S. personnel. Some do battle in the inhospitable terrain of the surrounding region, while others have never been outside the wire and wile away their time in the base's cafes and small shops (where troops reportedly can buy, among other items, belly dancer costumes), party in the "Dutch corner," play roller hockey in the base's central square, or dance the night away at a Saturday rave. "They are shaking glowsticks as if they have no concept of the mines and the war outside," said one U.S. officer, watching troops on the dance floor.
In recent days, U.S. forces announced a decrease in recreational perks and an imposition of more austere circumstances -- salsa and karaoke nights have already been cut at Kandahar -- prompting worries by NATO allies that their recreational facilities will be overrun by entertainment-starved U.S. troops.
A Mob of FOBs

It seems that no one outside the Pentagon knows just exactly how many U.S. camps, forward operating bases, combat outposts, patrol bases and other fortified sites the U.S. military is currently using or constructing in Afghanistan. And while the Americans have recently abandoned a few of their installations, effectively ceding the northeastern province of Nuristan to Taliban forces, elsewhere a base-building boom has been underway.
In April, Contrack was awarded another $28 million contract for work on airfields -- to be performed at unspecified sites in Afghanistan. In June, Florida-based IAP Worldwide Services was awarded a $21 million contract to enhance electrical power distribution at the U.S. Marines' still-growing Forward Operating Base (FOB) Leatherneck in Helmand Province, a Taliban stronghold. Scheduled for completion in June 2010, that project is only part of IAP's work, which has involved "almost two dozen power plants at U.S. Army bases in Afghanistan and Iraq" that, according to the company's promotional literature, its teams have "delivered, installed, operated and maintained."

FOB Dwyer, also in Helmand Province, is fast becoming a "hub" for air support in southern Afghanistan, according to Captain Vincent Rea of the Air Force's 809th Expeditionary Red Horse Squadron. To that end, Marine Corps and Air Force personnel are building runways and helipads to accommodate ever more fixed-wing and rotary aircraft on the base. The two services collaborated on the construction of a 4,300-foot airstrip capable of accommodating giant C-130 Hercules transport aircraft that increase the U.S. capability to support more troops on more bases in more remote areas.

"With the C-130s coming in more frequently, more Marines can travel at a given time and will definitely help Camp Dwyer and other FOBs and COPs (Combat Outposts) to build up," says Capt. Alexander Lugo-Velazquez of Marine Light/Attack Helicopter Squadron 169. In September, the Air Force reported the completion of the first phase of a six-phase construction project at FOB Dwyer which will eventually include additional fuel pits and taxiways, increased tarmac space, and the lengthening of the runway to 6,000 feet. In October, according to government documents, the Army also began soliciting bids -- in the $10-$25 million range -- for construction of fuel storage and distribution facilities at FOB Dwyer. These, like the infrastructure upgrades at Bagram, are not scheduled to be completed until sometime in 2011.

In Helmand, as well as Farah, Kandahar, and Nimruz provinces, between June and September the Marine Expeditionary Brigade-Afghanistan alone established four new forward operating bases, "10 combat outposts, six patrol bases, and four ancillary operating positions, helicopter landing zones and an expeditionary airfield." In October, defense contractor AECOM Technology signed a $78 million, 6-month extension contract with the Army to "provide general-support maintenance as well as the operation of maintenance facilities, living quarters and offices at two U.S. military bases as well as forward operating bases and satellite locations" in Afghanistan.

Defense contracting giant Fluor has also been hard at work landing lucrative deals in Afghanistan. In March, the Army reported that, in accordance with President Obama's spring surge of troops, Regional Command East in Afghanistan had tasked Fluor to expand four existing forward operating bases and, if need be, build another eight new ones.
In Regional Command South, it was reported that "[e]mergency work to expand eight FOBs [wa]s underway after being competitively awarded to Fluor under LOGCAP IV." This is the current version of a military program first instituted by the Pentagon in 1985. It has been the key means by which military logistics and supply functions have been turned over to private contractors. (The previous version of the program, LOGCAP III, was awarded solely to Kellogg, Brown and Root Services or KBR, then a division of the oil services giant Halliburton, primarily in support of U.S. operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kuwait and was plagued by scandals.)
In Afghanistan, companies like Fluor are clearly digging in. Fluor, in fact, describes itself as "co-located with the U.S. Army in Afghanistan, where the team coordinates, provides oversight, and implements Fluor's execution plan to provide the necessary resources and labor to accomplish this mission" of "providing multi-functional base life support and combat services support (CSS) to the U.S. and Coalition Forces in Afghanistan."
The company is "simultaneously constructing and managing the expansion of eight Forward Operating Bases[...] in Southern Afghanistan. This includes the construction of an FOB to accommodate 17,000 to 20,000 U.S. Military personnel." Fluor, no doubt, expects to be "co-located with the U.S. Army in Afghanistan" for a long time. In July 2009, the defense giant was awarded a $1.5 billion contract for LOGCAP IV services in Afghanistan; in October, the Army reported that the LOGCAP program was responsible for erecting 6,020 units of containerized housing known as relocatable buildings or RLBs in Regional Command South.

In July, under an existing LOGCAP IV contract, scandal-tainted defense contractor DynCorp International, along with partners CH2M Hill and Taos Industries, received a one year $643.5 million order to "provide existing bases within the Afghanistan South AOR [area of responsibility] with operations and maintenance support, including but not limited to: facilities management, electrical power, water, sewage and waste management, laundry operations, food services and transportation motor pool operations," as well as "construction services for additional sites." With an eye to the future, the Pentagon has included four one-year options in the contract which, if taken up, would be worth an estimated $5.8 billion.
Just recently, the Australian military indicated it was also digging in for a long stay, announcing a $37 million upgrade of its main base near Tarin Kowt in Oruzgan province, to be completed by mid-2011. As at other NATO facilities, increasing numbers of U.S. troops have been operating out of Tarin Kowt recently and, in late September, the U.S.-based company Kandahar Constructors signed a $25 million deal with the Pentagon for runway upgrades there, also to be completed in 2011.

Speaking the Language of Occupation
In 2009 alone, after many billions of dollars had already gone into the construction, expansion, and maintenance of U.S. bases in Afghanistan, American taxpayers were called upon to pay for more than $1 billion in construction contracts -- and based on the evidence at hand, including those future options, this may prove just a drop in the proverbial bucket.
All of this has been happening without a clear plan laid out in Washington for the future of U.S. military operations in that country, without a legitimate national government in Kabul, and of course with no shortage of infrastructural repairs needed at home. Americans curious to know much of anything about the Pentagon's Afghan building boom beyond Bagram would have found little on the nightly news or in major newspapers. It has essentially been carried out in the dark, far away, and with only the most modest reportorial interest.

Forget for a moment the "debates" in Washington over Afghan War policy and, if you just focus on the construction activity and the flow of money into Afghanistan, what you see is a war that, from the point of view of the Pentagon, isn't going to end any time soon. In fact, the U.S. military's building boom in that country suggests that, in the ninth year of the Afghan War, the Pentagon has plans for a far longer-term, if not near-permanent, garrisoning of the country, no matter what course Washington may decide upon. Alternatively, it suggests that the Pentagon is willing to waste taxpayer money (which might have shored up sagging infrastructure in the U.S. and created a plethora of jobs) on what will sooner or later be abandoned runways, landing zones and forward operating bases.

The building and fortifying of bases in Afghanistan isn't the only sign that the U.S. military is digging in for an even longer haul. Another key indicator can be found in a Pentagon contract awarded in late September to SOS International, Ltd., a privately owned "operations support company" that provides everything from "cultural advisory services" to "intelligence and counterintelligence analysis and training" to numerous federal agencies. That contract, primarily for linguistic services in support of military operations in Afghanistan, has an estimated completion date of September 2014.

[TVCasualty]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

hear the lambs screaming ?
time to shear the poor of all their 'wool'[assets].
kinda like
mowing the grass.
we work and accumulate and gather wealth
then along comes a 'crisis'
that wipes out the lower economic ranks
leaving those with extra $$$$
to buy up the losses
dirt cheap.
then it starts over for the next generation.

As usual, the wolves did alright.

[eatyualive]

gold hit 1140 and counting. don't think that inflation can be masked much longer. here it comes.

new record every day.

[SpiritMolecule]

Originally Posted by catdaddy

I forget which one of the Obamaites said it, but it goes like this- "We shouldn't let a perfectly good crisis go to waste".

A glaring indication that economic disaster allows them to pass legislation that might otherwise be unpalatable to the populous,.

Unfortunately I believe they bit off more than they can chew with the healthcare bill.

But- my prediction- they WILL put it through, and no matter what the actual bill SAYS (and much of it is "still to be filled in after passage") when it is law, it will mean what they want it to mean.

The quote your referring to, Cat, was spoken by Henry Kissinger. Evil man...

[SpiritMolecule]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

hear the lambs screaming ?
time to shear the poor of all their 'wool'[assets].
kinda like
mowing the grass.
we work and accumulate and gather wealth
then along comes a 'crisis'
that wipes out the lower economic ranks
leaving those with extra $$$$
to buy up the losses
dirt cheap.
then it starts over for the next generation.

So you accept that its common practice for a government to engineer or manufacture an incident to not only reap financial benefits but to affect public opinions in order to further a political agenda?