Water. Water! Water?

thinkgreen · 03-03-05, 22:50

when boiling my pf style jars ive had a problem with water getting past the foil and the tape into the holes in my pf style jars. i was wondering if it would be better if i poked the holes in the jars after boiling them?

03-03-05, 22:53

You should only put enough water so it goes up about 1/3 the length of the jar, and you want to gently boil. Shouldnt have any problems that way.

reefer · 03-04-05, 16:38

Right, just fill the water a 1/3 up the jars and cover the pot. Boil for a little more than an hour. I usually place a wash cloth in the pot under the jars to keep the jars from cracking.

Don't wait until after the boil to make the holes, or you might bust a few jars. Just cover the top of the jar with foil for the boil.

cutty · 03-20-05, 13:46

Is there a cure for water logged cakes?

smegma · 03-20-05, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutty

Is there a cure for water logged cakes?

A really dry room?

cutty · 03-20-05, 13:50

forgive me my brain isnt workin today...Long nite last night.

destroy_erase_improve · 03-20-05, 13:57

you may be able to break them up and use as spawn. mix them in with some coir and verm. and make a casing. you can make the mix a little on the dry side so when its all mixed, the excess water from the cake will level it out and compensate.

my friend has done it with a soggy log she had. she mixed it with some damp verm, not field capacity and broke it up. it ended up working out just fine for her.

hope this suggestion helps

insight · 03-20-05, 14:37

I have had mixed results with drenched cakes. All have been cased, some recovered, some did absolutely nothing (except smell).

~Hippie3 · 03-20-05, 15:04

Quote:

break them up and use as spawn. mix them in with some coir and verm. and make a casing. you can make the mix a little on the dry side so when its all mixed, the excess water from the cake will level it out and compensate

sounds like a decent POA to me.

02-22-06, 22:32

Im not sure if i had this correctly last time.

4 cups of verm, 1.5 cup of BRF and 2 cups of water?

Correct me if im wrong please.

~Hippie3 · 02-22-06, 22:34

4:2:2

breakstuff · 04-26-06, 16:13

A friend is using a WBS tek and is using a large tray seperated into three parts to seperate three strains. The cakes were birthed, slightly crumbled and cased with a 60/40 verm/coir.

The WBS was soaked for nearly 24 hrs before canning and the jars after 12 days were densely colonized. When they came out some slid out and some did not come so easy, but overall they did not seem to be too dry or too wet.
I also used caution not to overly saturate the casing layer when squeezed you'll get some drops, but it's not wet mush either.

So my question is, after reading a post about logs and basket teks getting too dry to make flushies and the need for dunking, Where does the water come from that the flushes need to grow?

Will humidity make a big difference in how they grow? In other words, if a proper humidifier is kept in the grow room to keep 85 - 90%rh, could that alone eliminate the need for dunking, and will the cased wbs get too dry?
Does the humid air keep watering them as they grow, so by the time they are fully mature they are using more water from the air rather than sucking the grains or casing water dry?

Ill post pics later

waylitjim · 04-26-06, 16:26

The wbs contains enough water to support a flush, also the moist casing layer will wick moisture downwards. Keeping the humidity high will prevent the casing from drying out, but doesn't replace a dunk after the first flush.

beebopboy · 04-26-06, 19:04

WBS doesnt hold water very well IMO.

You might want to consider bottom "casing" layer of verm to help keep the moisture high. I believe its called the rez-effect.

After your first flush and a nice dunk, you should consider that tek

BTW, you cant replace a good dunk

beebopboy · 04-26-06, 19:11

you should look through the archives

if your worried about dunking and contams you should look up some bleach teks.

I make up a gallon or so of bleach water (1.25 tbsp bleach : 1 gallon), add a bit to my dunk water and put some in a spray bottle for fruiting time.

easily keeps contams at bay

breakstuff · 04-27-06, 16:34

After reading through the archives, i can see how dunking is really simple and can bring life to an otherwise spent flatcake.

The next round we're going to attempt a pelletized straw substrate as it holds lots of water, can be dunked 2 or 3 times before moving to an outdoor bed, and requires no pasteurization some report, as the pellets are heat treated at manufacture.

1000 wet here we come.
1000 dry....

, hmm.

Ill post pics in the coming week keep an eye out.

Crimson King · 06-27-06, 18:47

i made some BRF/VERm jars two days ago and i put them on shelf befor colinization to check for infection. i used i pint jars with i cup verm/1/2 BRF and 1/2 cup water (maby just a LITTLE less). this should be the right amout of water wright? how can i tell if they are to dry?

Lazlo · 06-27-06, 18:51

That should be fine.

Crimson King · 06-27-06, 19:32

i thought so, just peronoid you know. i used to use 1/2 pint's so i cant realy tell. if i squint into the jar i see a little moister on the glass, and the BRF looks good. no contamination yet, if there is still a green light manjana i guess its go time for my hawians and some teachers. oh the sweet taste of pestashios. thanks dude.

~Hippie3 · 06-27-06, 19:45

yeah, done right they look kinda dry but don't worry, the formula is right on

madmanzack · 08-06-06, 06:56

i just wanted you all to have a look at my PF jars before i noc them up tomorrow when i wake up i used 1/pint jars and the ones that where on the bottom seem to have taken on some water and I'm not sure if its OK or not i have more cake mix if i need to remake um but I'm kinda going OCD on this it MUST work the first time or ima be crushed so some hand holding would be great from some of the higher ups in the crew here thanks for looking and reading

P.S. the first pic is the toplayer and the second is the bottom layer

golly · 08-06-06, 07:45

Hard to give a definative judgement from the pic but the jar seems well wrapped ...How high was the water level around those halfpints...?
If failure is not an option then a new batch may be in order...You could open one jar to better judge the rest...

madmanzack · 08-06-06, 08:01

thats about the level thanks for the fast post man

i just wasnt lookin right was kinda in a hurry to get um into my sterile boxes that fit in my glove box

~Hippie3 · 08-06-06, 08:51

weigh the jars by hand,
if the bottom layer jars are heavier
you know water got in.
any jars that took on significant water
should be discarded.

MLBjammer · 08-06-06, 09:07

When I PC jars, I use that waterproof tape over the inoc. holes, then wrap a layer of tin foil over the top half of the jar and secure that with a rubber band. It's probably overkill, but I have had no excess moisture after PC'ing. The jars look wet from the pics, and if you have any doubts, just make some more. Good luck.

golly · 08-06-06, 09:21

Water level is a bit high -need to raise em or use less...

madmanzack · 08-06-06, 12:03

i jusy hocked the ones that where ultra heavy and remade them i put 4 one pint jars full of water under the plate that came with the cooker so i can put a crap load of water and the jars never come close to it. and i tryed a few other ideas along with some honey LC jars i will post pix later hippie might like the jars i found in the kitchen

well im off to empty out the cooker send all the good vibes you can my good good friends

M.adM.anZ.ack

~Hippie3 · 08-06-06, 12:11

bon chance

nomoreusmc · 08-06-06, 13:23

If the rice looks cooked, it's screwed pretty much. But hey, live and learn!

madmanzack · 08-10-06, 14:59

sorry for the lag in my reply got in the worst place in the world hospital some intestinal hell any way great news three days after shooting up my jars i have good sized growth

ill post some pix
peace and well being to you all for the help things look to be jamming right along

mason420 · 08-10-06, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomoreusmc

If the rice looks cooked, it's screwed pretty much. But hey, live and learn!

Hmmm, really? My rice always looks cooked. Hasn't caused any noticable problems for me.

fungalsporesolution · 08-10-06, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mason420

Hmmm, really? My rice always looks cooked. Hasn't caused any noticable problems for me.

i think he means cooked like the rice from chinese resturaunts

a little too much moisture imo

fingers · 08-10-06, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippie3

weigh the jars by hand,
if the bottom layer jars are heavier
you know water got in.
any jars that took on significant water
should be discarded.

That's one of them "god thats so simple, logical, and in a sense obvious even...so why the hell didn't i ever think of that! thats GOLD!

" kinda posts. The essence of KISS in a sense. I dunno, sorry Im stoned, i just loved that tip

fan F%#iN tastic method Hip,

Thanks

FIngers

~Hippie3 · 08-10-06, 17:17

AcidHorse · 08-10-06, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippie3

weigh the jars by hand,
if the bottom layer jars are heavier
you know water got in.
any jars that took on significant water
should be discarded.

Couldn't he invert the jars?

I know that lots of water isn't good when growing Morel mycelium, drying pushes growth.

abaca · 08-15-06, 20:58

Here is a pic of pastuerized horse poo in terrariums. Each tub is aprox 8x12 with three lbs poo and spawned with three BRF cakes. They are getting two fresh air exchanges a day, is this enough?

the_chosen_one · 08-15-06, 22:02

Looks pretty good. The fresh air won't be as much of a factor until fully colonized or fruiting begins. Unless things begin to dry out or slow down substantially, your doing fine.

Looks as though it's gonna be a nice grow! Care to give a little more info? Strain? etc. If you are up to keeping a running log, we could move this to Photos and Growlogs.

Either way, good luck!!!

abaca · 08-15-06, 22:33

I will be updating this grow as it goes along. As I stated is an earlier post this is our first attemp using poo, really our first attempt at doing anything other than standard PF tek. Anyways, two of the tubs are Lipa Yia and two are Brazilian. The BRF cakes used to spawn were 60/40 verm/coir, BRF and H2O. The lipa's weren't quite fully colonized when used to spawn the poo, but we wanted to spawn all in the same sitting. The tubs were prepared sunday night and are currently incubating at 74F. Hoping the mycillium will run through in a week.

golly · 08-15-06, 22:45

Looks good ..You may see many pins forming below the surface where the light can penetrate the clear plastic ...You can reduce that effect by keeping the subsurface dark ..wrap it with black plastic or similar...

abaca · 08-15-06, 23:00

We were concerned about an early pinset. So they are in a dark closet wraped in a blanket already. Thanx for the advice though. It's all appreciated.

abaca · 08-20-06, 23:58

So these pics are the Brazilian 7 days from spawning. The mycillium has almost run through. The Lipa Yia appear to be 2 days behind. So these don't need to be cased for the first flush or two? When should we increase the fresh air exchanges?

sandman · 08-21-06, 14:53

looks like its got at least 4-6 more days of colonizing.

generally you dont give them fresh air exchanges until after they are fully colonized.

next time mix the spawn more thoroughly.

SharkieJones · 08-21-06, 15:02

Nice work.

08-21-06, 16:25

is the 76 degree temperature desired?

optimal colonizing temps are about 85, so i was just wondering

madmanzack · 08-21-06, 23:26

have a look they are a little farther along i just don't have the pix and what do you think of the pop corn 100% or not i wanna do a mini casing with it asap just for fun to see some thing happen any way thanks for the help every one zero contams and every jar is going the fungal gods have smiled upon me .

M.m.Z

abaca · 08-24-06, 22:56

Our tubs are now 11 days from spawn and we have some more questions for the experts. There is a thin film of water on the bottom, should we funnel some vermiculite under the cake? Also there's been a lot of rhizo growth in the last couple days, is it time to start pinning? (ie fresh air exchanges and light)

BuckarooBanzai · 08-24-06, 23:08

Pooling water is bad. A veritable invitation for bad things to grow. Soak it up with something or pour it out regularly, but don't let a pool of water sit in a closed up environment.

As to the rhizo question, need more info. Rhizo on a cake? No light yet? No fresh air...gimmie details and I'll give ya my opinion...

abaca · 08-25-06, 00:09

Sorry for the confusion.

08-25-06, 01:05

should be rhizo growth everyplace

~Hippie3 · 08-25-06, 14:50

threads merged

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03-03-05, 22:50	#1 (permalink)
thinkgreen Mycophiliac Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 5	keeping the water out? when boiling my pf style jars ive had a problem with water getting past the foil and the tape into the holes in my pf style jars. i was wondering if it would be better if i poked the holes in the jars after boiling them?

03-20-05, 13:46	#4 (permalink)
cutty AKA~ Shaftner Join Date: Dec 1972 Posts: 1,630	Water logged cakes.. Is there a cure for water logged cakes? __________________ I'd rather be sharin flowers, Then in the pen sharin showers.

03-20-05, 13:50	#6 (permalink)
cutty AKA~ Shaftner Join Date: Dec 1972 Posts: 1,630	forgive me my brain isnt workin today...Long nite last night. __________________ I'd rather be sharin flowers, Then in the pen sharin showers.

03-20-05, 13:57	#7 (permalink)
destroy_erase_improve Mycotopiate Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,172	you may be able to break them up and use as spawn. mix them in with some coir and verm. and make a casing. you can make the mix a little on the dry side so when its all mixed, the excess water from the cake will level it out and compensate. my friend has done it with a soggy log she had. she mixed it with some damp verm, not field capacity and broke it up. it ended up working out just fine for her. hope this suggestion helps __________________ Destroy Erase Improve

03-03-05, 22:53	#2 (permalink)
~johnny_butt Guest Posts: n/a	You should only put enough water so it goes up about 1/3 the length of the jar, and you want to gently boil. Shouldnt have any problems that way.

03-04-05, 16:38	#3 (permalink)
reefer Mod of the Ocean Join Date: Feb 1973 Posts: 1,030	Right, just fill the water a 1/3 up the jars and cover the pot. Boil for a little more than an hour. I usually place a wash cloth in the pot under the jars to keep the jars from cracking. Don't wait until after the boil to make the holes, or you might bust a few jars. Just cover the top of the jar with foil for the boil.

03-20-05, 14:37	#8 (permalink)
insight Mycotopiate Join Date: Feb 1970 Posts: 835	I have had mixed results with drenched cakes. All have been cased, some recovered, some did absolutely nothing (except smell). __________________ "I create cultures, not those of politics and society, but those for the good of the people" -Myself

02-22-06, 22:32	#10 (permalink)
~Littlejohnnybiggums Guest Posts: n/a	12 Pint Size Verm/BRF and water ratio Im not sure if i had this correctly last time. 4 cups of verm, 1.5 cup of BRF and 2 cups of water? Correct me if im wrong please.

02-22-06, 22:34	#11 (permalink)
~Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,496	4:2:2

04-26-06, 16:13	#12 (permalink)
breakstuff Mycophiliac Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2	Water. Water! Water? A friend is using a WBS tek and is using a large tray seperated into three parts to seperate three strains. The cakes were birthed, slightly crumbled and cased with a 60/40 verm/coir. The WBS was soaked for nearly 24 hrs before canning and the jars after 12 days were densely colonized. When they came out some slid out and some did not come so easy, but overall they did not seem to be too dry or too wet. I also used caution not to overly saturate the casing layer when squeezed you'll get some drops, but it's not wet mush either. So my question is, after reading a post about logs and basket teks getting too dry to make flushies and the need for dunking, Where does the water come from that the flushes need to grow? Will humidity make a big difference in how they grow? In other words, if a proper humidifier is kept in the grow room to keep 85 - 90%rh, could that alone eliminate the need for dunking, and will the cased wbs get too dry? Does the humid air keep watering them as they grow, so by the time they are fully mature they are using more water from the air rather than sucking the grains or casing water dry? Ill post pics later

04-26-06, 16:26	#13 (permalink)
waylitjim A Mirror Image Join Date: Sep 1972 Posts: 4,281	The wbs contains enough water to support a flush, also the moist casing layer will wick moisture downwards. Keeping the humidity high will prevent the casing from drying out, but doesn't replace a dunk after the first flush. __________________ "there is no need though to seek death- it will find us . seek instead to become a light in this dark world."

04-26-06, 19:04	#14 (permalink)
beebopboy Mycotopiate Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 257	WBS doesnt hold water very well IMO. You might want to consider bottom "casing" layer of verm to help keep the moisture high. I believe its called the rez-effect. After your first flush and a nice dunk, you should consider that tek BTW, you cant replace a good dunk

04-26-06, 19:11	#15 (permalink)
beebopboy Mycotopiate Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 257	you should look through the archives if your worried about dunking and contams you should look up some bleach teks. I make up a gallon or so of bleach water (1.25 tbsp bleach : 1 gallon), add a bit to my dunk water and put some in a spray bottle for fruiting time. easily keeps contams at bay

04-27-06, 16:34	#16 (permalink)
breakstuff Mycophiliac Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2	bulk on the next round After reading through the archives, i can see how dunking is really simple and can bring life to an otherwise spent flatcake. The next round we're going to attempt a pelletized straw substrate as it holds lots of water, can be dunked 2 or 3 times before moving to an outdoor bed, and requires no pasteurization some report, as the pellets are heat treated at manufacture. 1000 wet here we come. 1000 dry...., hmm. Ill post pics in the coming week keep an eye out.

06-27-06, 18:47	#17 (permalink)
Crimson King Mycophiliac Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 55	too little water in jars? i made some BRF/VERm jars two days ago and i put them on shelf befor colinization to check for infection. i used i pint jars with i cup verm/1/2 BRF and 1/2 cup water (maby just a LITTLE less). this should be the right amout of water wright? how can i tell if they are to dry?

06-27-06, 18:51	#18 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,696	That should be fine. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

06-27-06, 19:32	#19 (permalink)
Crimson King Mycophiliac Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 55	i thought so, just peronoid you know. i used to use 1/2 pint's so i cant realy tell. if i squint into the jar i see a little moister on the glass, and the BRF looks good. no contamination yet, if there is still a green light manjana i guess its go time for my hawians and some teachers. oh the sweet taste of pestashios. thanks dude.

06-27-06, 19:45	#20 (permalink)
~Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,496	yeah, done right they look kinda dry but don't worry, the formula is right on

08-06-06, 07:45	#22 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,227	Hard to give a definative judgement from the pic but the jar seems well wrapped ...How high was the water level around those halfpints...? If failure is not an option then a new batch may be in order...You could open one jar to better judge the rest...

08-06-06, 08:51	#24 (permalink)
~Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,496	weigh the jars by hand, if the bottom layer jars are heavier you know water got in. any jars that took on significant water should be discarded. Last edited by Hippie3; 10-05-06 at 08:20.

08-06-06, 09:07	#25 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,848	When I PC jars, I use that waterproof tape over the inoc. holes, then wrap a layer of tin foil over the top half of the jar and secure that with a rubber band. It's probably overkill, but I have had no excess moisture after PC'ing. The jars look wet from the pics, and if you have any doubts, just make some more. Good luck.

08-06-06, 09:21	#26 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,227	Water level is a bit high -need to raise em or use less...

08-06-06, 12:03	#27 (permalink)
madmanzack Mycophiliac Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14	fixed it i jusy hocked the ones that where ultra heavy and remade them i put 4 one pint jars full of water under the plate that came with the cooker so i can put a crap load of water and the jars never come close to it. and i tryed a few other ideas along with some honey LC jars i will post pix later hippie might like the jars i found in the kitchen well im off to empty out the cooker send all the good vibes you can my good good friends M.adM.anZ.ack __________________ The Tryptamine Elves Say Hoooorayy

08-06-06, 12:11	#28 (permalink)
~Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,496	bon chance

08-06-06, 13:23	#29 (permalink)
nomoreusmc Mycotopiate Join Date: Sep 1971 Posts: 936	If the rice looks cooked, it's screwed pretty much. But hey, live and learn! __________________ Peace, Love and Shrooms

08-10-06, 14:59	#30 (permalink)
madmanzack Mycophiliac Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14	......screw hospitals sorry for the lag in my reply got in the worst place in the world hospital some intestinal hell any way great news three days after shooting up my jars i have good sized growth ill post some pix peace and well being to you all for the help things look to be jamming right along __________________ The Tryptamine Elves Say Hoooorayy

08-10-06, 17:17	#34 (permalink)
~Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,496

08-15-06, 22:02	#37 (permalink)
the_chosen_one Darth Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,390	Looks pretty good. The fresh air won't be as much of a factor until fully colonized or fruiting begins. Unless things begin to dry out or slow down substantially, your doing fine. Looks as though it's gonna be a nice grow! Care to give a little more info? Strain? etc. If you are up to keeping a running log, we could move this to Photos and Growlogs. Either way, good luck!!! __________________ "Luck favors the observant." - Workman

08-15-06, 22:33	#38 (permalink)
abaca jerk of all trades Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 363	I will be updating this grow as it goes along. As I stated is an earlier post this is our first attemp using poo, really our first attempt at doing anything other than standard PF tek. Anyways, two of the tubs are Lipa Yia and two are Brazilian. The BRF cakes used to spawn were 60/40 verm/coir, BRF and H2O. The lipa's weren't quite fully colonized when used to spawn the poo, but we wanted to spawn all in the same sitting. The tubs were prepared sunday night and are currently incubating at 74F. Hoping the mycillium will run through in a week.

08-15-06, 22:45	#39 (permalink)
golly modapotato Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,227	Looks good ..You may see many pins forming below the surface where the light can penetrate the clear plastic ...You can reduce that effect by keeping the subsurface dark ..wrap it with black plastic or similar...

08-15-06, 23:00	#40 (permalink)
abaca jerk of all trades Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 363	We were concerned about an early pinset. So they are in a dark closet wraped in a blanket already. Thanx for the advice though. It's all appreciated.

08-21-06, 14:53	#42 (permalink)
sandman ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ uʍop ǝpısdn Join Date: Apr 1972 Posts: 2,071	looks like its got at least 4-6 more days of colonizing. generally you dont give them fresh air exchanges until after they are fully colonized. next time mix the spawn more thoroughly. __________________ Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes

08-21-06, 15:02	#43 (permalink)
SharkieJones Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,145	Nice work. __________________

08-21-06, 16:25	#44 (permalink)
~DaGoon Guest Posts: n/a	is the 76 degree temperature desired? optimal colonizing temps are about 85, so i was just wondering