Wild Bird Seed Question (Help or Hurt) [merged]

Spark · 02-09-05, 19:54

Is this the same as WBS?
This stuff has small seeds with bits of corn and such.I think i can use this stuff,but i'm not 100% sure.

Spark

02-09-05, 19:57

feed, seed
same thing
the kind you want is mostly millet

02-09-05, 20:05

Remove the corn, rinse 3-4 times, soak 24 hr,rinse well again, sterlize 1 hr, and the best can be found.

darkiss · 10-10-05, 12:13

Does adding one teaspoon of Hydrated lime per ever gal of water when soaking the wild bird seed help anything or hurt anything?

sinthetic · 10-10-05, 12:21

From what I understand, depending on how you innoculate it. Lime adjusts the ph to disallow contamination spores from germinating.
If you plan on innoculating this jar with a multispore solution, it is conceivable that the lime will prevent said spores from germinating.

I'd leave it out, use it for bulk substrates.

lost_onabbey_rd · 10-10-05, 12:48

i don't really see where it would help anything... i mean the jars should be sterilized properly anyways...
Lime is used to adjust the PH of acidic substances like peat moss
and as far as i know WBS is pretty neutral...
what might help you out a little is a pinch or 2 of some powdered gypsum (calcium sulphate) which adds calcium and sulphur both of which are said to help strong growth, and the gypsum also keeps grains from sticking together so much, making them easier to shake
LOST

sandman · 10-10-05, 12:53

only add a little bit of hydrated lime if you are soaking or simmering in coffee. Even then its not necesary.

Lazlo · 10-10-05, 15:03

I use a level 5ml measuring spoons worth for every seed soak in a 6qt pan. It really helps for healthy growth, preventing molds, and for preventing the seed from sticking together. After the seed has colonized, I can easily break up the seed with the back of a tablespoon down to the bottom of the jar. There's no problem with multispore knock ups either.

Lazlo · 10-10-05, 15:40

I should say it slows down molds, doesn't prevent them....

Hippie3 · 10-10-05, 17:57

5 ml isn't much in a 6 qt pan,
i don't see how one could credit, with any certainty, it for
"healthy growth, preventing molds, and for preventing the seed from sticking together".

btw chalk is a quick 'n easy source of 'gypsum'
but sticking shouldn't be a problem unless you
over-cook the grains & burst a bunch of kernels, spilling the starch,
always bad even with powder added.

Lazlo · 10-10-05, 19:31

I won't even soak seeds without a calcium additive now. The difference after the pc run and colonization is quite a bit. The grains look better after the pc run and break apart with ease after colonization. It's hard to explain really. I use the same amount of gypsum in the same size bowl and they break apart easy as well. I just like to use lime @ 5mills per 6qts. otf seed soak so the PH is a bit higher and the grains break apart with ease. Try it out! You'll love it.....

Lazlo · 10-10-05, 19:43

Sorry, but my edit function isn't working at the moment.

But the reason I like to use lime is because I do tons of grain tranfers to other jars and the mycelium just rips through the new seed. After the colonization the seed is just as easy to break up with a spoon as it is stirring up a bowl of cereal. So nice with a lime additive IMO. Same as gypsum, but I prefer lime for a ph adjuster and for an easy colonized grain seperater both....

darkiss · 10-11-05, 08:02

ya thanks it is true, the wbs does break up alot easyer. I just made 5 pints of wbs soaked with lime. I am doing it to hope that my tric will stop killing my casings, since I have a huge problem with green mold and wbs. I belive it is because the wbs that I get is very cheap and very dirty. When I added lime to my casing layer the tric was cut by 75% but still had tric just less of it at about 25%. So I hope that lime in the wbs and casing will not allow the tric to grow at all.

"chalk is a quick 'n easy source of 'gypsum'"
What do you mean like chalk as in the chalk that my teacher at school writes with on the chalkboard?

Hippie3 · 10-11-05, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkiss

"chalk is a quick 'n easy source of 'gypsum'"
What do you mean like chalk as in the chalk that my teacher at school writes with on the chalkboard?

correct

Lazlo · 10-11-05, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkiss

ya thanks it is true, the wbs does break up alot easyer. I just made 5 pints of wbs soaked with lime. I am doing it to hope that my tric will stop killing my casings, since I have a huge problem with green mold and wbs. I belive it is because the wbs that I get is very cheap and very dirty. When I added lime to my casing layer the tric was cut by 75% but still had tric just less of it at about 25%. So I hope that lime in the wbs and casing will not allow the tric to grow at all.

"chalk is a quick 'n easy source of 'gypsum'"
What do you mean like chalk as in the chalk that my teacher at school writes with on the chalkboard?

You'll still get molds if your preparation technique is wrong. But the lime does help some. Just the other day I got my first mold in some seed for the first time in a long time. Try allowing your colonized seed to set in the tray for recovery for a couple of days before you case it. In other words, allow it to whiten back up well before casing it. Casing beaten up seed will up the chances for molds a lot..

10-11-05, 16:19

does it matter if it is a colored chalk ? [example yellow sidewalk chalk]

MurCurY · 02-27-06, 13:19

I went to get some wild bird seed at the hardware store....they have MANY kinds. what specifically should i look for...or look for as to NOT get...most of the ones i saw had millet, crushed corn, and sunflower seeds with some stating 5% added and others have "added nutrient". Some help?

Lazlo · 02-27-06, 13:25

I've used every brand out there and haven't noticed a difference at all between them. Get the cheapest bag per pound to use. For example, I get 50# bags from Lowes for 11 bucks. Plain Wild Bird Seed. Some of it contains vitamins (Pennington brand). Those brands are fine to use also...

MurCurY · 02-27-06, 13:27

i thought that sunflower seeds were "bad" for use...is this true?

Lazlo · 02-27-06, 13:32

That's a myth. Don't worry about removing the sunflower seeds. Sunflower seeds in minimal amounts like in WBS do no harm.

If you choose to remove them, they will float up to the top of the soak water making them easy to scoop out. No need really..

xxanxx · 02-27-06, 13:35

Go to Petsmart or Petco and buy Bird Basics brand. Cheapest and all natural. If you are doing the hardware store, I always go with Kaytee. My fav. Ace brand is good too...

MurCurY · 02-27-06, 14:28

i'm gonna hit up petco on the way home since they're going to be open. really no suggestion on a specific brand...they're all the same?

Lazlo · 02-27-06, 14:39

Pretty much all the same..

TVCasualty · 02-27-06, 16:21

I've seen a few people on other threads asking about problems with slimy-looking jars after PCing their WBS. I believe it is due to the cracked (crushed) corn content. I have made spawn from straight cracked corn many times and the slime removal is part of the prep.

Basically, after simmering (not a rolling boil) cracked corn in a pot for about 30 minutes, a distinct slime will suddenly appear on the surface of the water. You'll know it when it happens. This stuff is bad. I turn off the heat and pour the slimy corn into a milk crate lined with window screen (not the metal type) and hit it with a garden hose at full pressure, stirring with my hands until all the slime is rinsed off. I throw in some lime and vermiculite until the mix feels right, then pack in bags and PC.

WBS with cracked corn in it would likely benefit greatly from this rinsing if slimy jars appear to be a problem. Rinsing before cooking (whether in PC or simmering in a pot) does not remove the slime.

Mixed WBS might not manifest the slime problem; I've only used straight cracked corn, but I have a bag of WBS in my kitchen I'm planning to use this weekend, and it has corn in it so I'll see.

wayback · 02-27-06, 19:43

I remove most suflower seeds that float to top and just toss them in the yard. I've noticed that the sun flowers seeds if left in the mix colonize slower. The smaller bird seed found in most grocery stores colonize faster, but the slightly larger seed found at Walmart (Pennington's) also works quite well and is cheaper per pound.

I also remove any corn present when I strain and rinse after 24 hr soak. If a different brand other than Penningotn's, then I check the bag contents to ensure the least amount of corn possible. Course that's just me.

Another tip, the dustier the bird seed, the more times I rise before the 24 hr soak. When the murkiness dissipates from the seed and water mix, go ahead and let soak.

Hippie3 · 02-27-06, 19:46

the higher the % of millet
the better.

red_lenses · 02-27-06, 21:01

stay away from "bird kote" it is an additive that prevents seeds from sprouting I think.
All I know is the last bag I had that was coated wound up in the birdfeeder not the p.c.

MurCurY · 02-28-06, 07:31

"kaytee supreme wild bird food"
that's what i got. The pic on the bag looked like there was little sunflower seeds in it and no added nutrients in the ingredients so...oh...plus it was only $12 :grin:

Hippie3 · 03-24-06, 20:22

see doc's wild birdseed tek (Doc's Wild Bird Seed Tek)

cherkropper · 03-24-06, 21:21

A lot of folk have had good success with Doc's WBS Tek.
Hard to mess up.

Jaeger · 03-25-06, 13:52

Doc's is a good tek.
If you have more time, you can just soak for 24-36 hours. (You can use the hottest tap water avail, and you get close to the simmer but without the chance of bursting seeds) Then let drain for an hour or so. Mix in a little wet and some try verm, and you should be set!

Some people seem to have a problem with the simmer step in doc's. They do it too hard and too long

which results in bust seeds that gum up the works.

A five gallon bucket with a 5 gallon paint filter bag (home depot, a few cents) works PERFECTLY. You just put the bag in the bucket, add your seed, and go to work! Makes straining super simple too! Plus after drained, you can put it back in the bucket which makes scooping super easy.

Good luck

Lazlo · 03-25-06, 14:23

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1070729805

Mycota's bird seed tek. And the wbs that contains the "Bird Coat" is fine to use. It's mearly vitamins and minerals.

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10-10-05, 12:13	#4 (permalink)
darkiss Mycophiliac Join Date: Oct 1971 Posts: 33	Wild Bird Seed Question (Help or Hurt) [merged] Does adding one teaspoon of Hydrated lime per ever gal of water when soaking the wild bird seed help anything or hurt anything?

10-10-05, 12:48	#6 (permalink)
lost_onabbey_rd The Lost Join Date: Apr 1972 Posts: 1,756	i don't really see where it would help anything... i mean the jars should be sterilized properly anyways... Lime is used to adjust the PH of acidic substances like peat moss and as far as i know WBS is pretty neutral... what might help you out a little is a pinch or 2 of some powdered gypsum (calcium sulphate) which adds calcium and sulphur both of which are said to help strong growth, and the gypsum also keeps grains from sticking together so much, making them easier to shake LOST __________________ Plant a seed, It will grow, So it's been, Sow the show To think outside the box, sometimes it is nessecary to step, outside the box

10-10-05, 12:53	#7 (permalink)
sandman Harvester of Sorrow Join Date: Apr 1972 Posts: 1,967	only add a little bit of hydrated lime if you are soaking or simmering in coffee. Even then its not necesary. __________________ Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes

10-10-05, 17:57	#10 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	5 ml isn't much in a 6 qt pan, i don't see how one could credit, with any certainty, it for "healthy growth, preventing molds, and for preventing the seed from sticking together". btw chalk is a quick 'n easy source of 'gypsum' but sticking shouldn't be a problem unless you over-cook the grains & burst a bunch of kernels, spilling the starch, always bad even with powder added. __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

02-09-05, 19:54	#1 (permalink)
Spark Mycotopiate Join Date: Jul 1972 Posts: 788	Is this the same as WBS? This stuff has small seeds with bits of corn and such.I think i can use this stuff,but i'm not 100% sure. Spark

02-09-05, 19:57	#2 (permalink)
~hippie3 Guest Posts: n/a	feed, seed same thing the kind you want is mostly millet

02-09-05, 20:05	#3 (permalink)
~peabody Guest Posts: n/a	Remove the corn, rinse 3-4 times, soak 24 hr,rinse well again, sterlize 1 hr, and the best can be found.

10-10-05, 12:21	#5 (permalink)
sinthetic i party like a rock star Join Date: Apr 1970 Posts: 871	From what I understand, depending on how you innoculate it. Lime adjusts the ph to disallow contamination spores from germinating. If you plan on innoculating this jar with a multispore solution, it is conceivable that the lime will prevent said spores from germinating. I'd leave it out, use it for bulk substrates.

10-10-05, 15:03	#8 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	I use a level 5ml measuring spoons worth for every seed soak in a 6qt pan. It really helps for healthy growth, preventing molds, and for preventing the seed from sticking together. After the seed has colonized, I can easily break up the seed with the back of a tablespoon down to the bottom of the jar. There's no problem with multispore knock ups either.

10-10-05, 15:40	#9 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	I should say it slows down molds, doesn't prevent them....

10-10-05, 19:31	#11 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	I won't even soak seeds without a calcium additive now. The difference after the pc run and colonization is quite a bit. The grains look better after the pc run and break apart with ease after colonization. It's hard to explain really. I use the same amount of gypsum in the same size bowl and they break apart easy as well. I just like to use lime @ 5mills per 6qts. otf seed soak so the PH is a bit higher and the grains break apart with ease. Try it out! You'll love it.....

10-10-05, 19:43	#12 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	Sorry, but my edit function isn't working at the moment. But the reason I like to use lime is because I do tons of grain tranfers to other jars and the mycelium just rips through the new seed. After the colonization the seed is just as easy to break up with a spoon as it is stirring up a bowl of cereal. So nice with a lime additive IMO. Same as gypsum, but I prefer lime for a ph adjuster and for an easy colonized grain seperater both....

10-11-05, 08:02	#13 (permalink)
darkiss Mycophiliac Join Date: Oct 1971 Posts: 33	ya thanks it is true, the wbs does break up alot easyer. I just made 5 pints of wbs soaked with lime. I am doing it to hope that my tric will stop killing my casings, since I have a huge problem with green mold and wbs. I belive it is because the wbs that I get is very cheap and very dirty. When I added lime to my casing layer the tric was cut by 75% but still had tric just less of it at about 25%. So I hope that lime in the wbs and casing will not allow the tric to grow at all. "chalk is a quick 'n easy source of 'gypsum'" What do you mean like chalk as in the chalk that my teacher at school writes with on the chalkboard?

10-11-05, 16:19	#16 (permalink)
~bullfrog Guest Posts: n/a	does it matter if it is a colored chalk ? [example yellow sidewalk chalk]

02-27-06, 13:19	#17 (permalink)
MurCurY I.Know.All Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 884	Wild bird seed help I went to get some wild bird seed at the hardware store....they have MANY kinds. what specifically should i look for...or look for as to NOT get...most of the ones i saw had millet, crushed corn, and sunflower seeds with some stating 5% added and others have "added nutrient". Some help?

02-27-06, 13:25	#18 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	I've used every brand out there and haven't noticed a difference at all between them. Get the cheapest bag per pound to use. For example, I get 50# bags from Lowes for 11 bucks. Plain Wild Bird Seed. Some of it contains vitamins (Pennington brand). Those brands are fine to use also... __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

02-27-06, 13:27	#19 (permalink)
MurCurY I.Know.All Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 884	i thought that sunflower seeds were "bad" for use...is this true?

02-27-06, 13:32	#20 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	That's a myth. Don't worry about removing the sunflower seeds. Sunflower seeds in minimal amounts like in WBS do no harm. If you choose to remove them, they will float up to the top of the soak water making them easy to scoop out. No need really.. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

02-27-06, 13:35	#21 (permalink)
xxanxx Mycophage Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 176	Go to Petsmart or Petco and buy Bird Basics brand. Cheapest and all natural. If you are doing the hardware store, I always go with Kaytee. My fav. Ace brand is good too...

02-27-06, 14:28	#22 (permalink)
MurCurY I.Know.All Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 884	i'm gonna hit up petco on the way home since they're going to be open. really no suggestion on a specific brand...they're all the same?

02-27-06, 14:39	#23 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	Pretty much all the same.. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

02-27-06, 16:21	#24 (permalink)
TVCasualty Embrace Your Damage Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,798	I've seen a few people on other threads asking about problems with slimy-looking jars after PCing their WBS. I believe it is due to the cracked (crushed) corn content. I have made spawn from straight cracked corn many times and the slime removal is part of the prep. Basically, after simmering (not a rolling boil) cracked corn in a pot for about 30 minutes, a distinct slime will suddenly appear on the surface of the water. You'll know it when it happens. This stuff is bad. I turn off the heat and pour the slimy corn into a milk crate lined with window screen (not the metal type) and hit it with a garden hose at full pressure, stirring with my hands until all the slime is rinsed off. I throw in some lime and vermiculite until the mix feels right, then pack in bags and PC. WBS with cracked corn in it would likely benefit greatly from this rinsing if slimy jars appear to be a problem. Rinsing before cooking (whether in PC or simmering in a pot) does not remove the slime. Mixed WBS might not manifest the slime problem; I've only used straight cracked corn, but I have a bag of WBS in my kitchen I'm planning to use this weekend, and it has corn in it so I'll see.

02-27-06, 19:43	#25 (permalink)
wayback Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1973 Posts: 329	I remove most suflower seeds that float to top and just toss them in the yard. I've noticed that the sun flowers seeds if left in the mix colonize slower. The smaller bird seed found in most grocery stores colonize faster, but the slightly larger seed found at Walmart (Pennington's) also works quite well and is cheaper per pound. I also remove any corn present when I strain and rinse after 24 hr soak. If a different brand other than Penningotn's, then I check the bag contents to ensure the least amount of corn possible. Course that's just me. Another tip, the dustier the bird seed, the more times I rise before the 24 hr soak. When the murkiness dissipates from the seed and water mix, go ahead and let soak.

02-27-06, 19:46	#26 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	the higher the % of millet the better. __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

02-27-06, 21:01	#27 (permalink)
red_lenses Pandoras Box Is Open Join Date: Feb 1973 Posts: 372	stay away from "bird kote" it is an additive that prevents seeds from sprouting I think. All I know is the last bag I had that was coated wound up in the birdfeeder not the p.c.

02-28-06, 07:31	#28 (permalink)
MurCurY I.Know.All Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 884	"kaytee supreme wild bird food" that's what i got. The pic on the bag looked like there was little sunflower seeds in it and no added nutrients in the ingredients so...oh...plus it was only $12 :grin:

03-24-06, 20:22	#29 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	see doc's wild birdseed tek (Doc's Wild Bird Seed Tek) __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

03-24-06, 21:21	#30 (permalink)
cherkropper Mycophage Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 150	A lot of folk have had good success with Doc's WBS Tek. Hard to mess up.

03-25-06, 13:52	#31 (permalink)
Jaeger Mycophage Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 176	Doc's is a good tek. If you have more time, you can just soak for 24-36 hours. (You can use the hottest tap water avail, and you get close to the simmer but without the chance of bursting seeds) Then let drain for an hour or so. Mix in a little wet and some try verm, and you should be set! Some people seem to have a problem with the simmer step in doc's. They do it too hard and too long which results in bust seeds that gum up the works. A five gallon bucket with a 5 gallon paint filter bag (home depot, a few cents) works PERFECTLY. You just put the bag in the bucket, add your seed, and go to work! Makes straining super simple too! Plus after drained, you can put it back in the bucket which makes scooping super easy. Good luck

03-25-06, 14:23	#32 (permalink)
Lazlo old hand Join Date: Mar 1970 Posts: 7,591	http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1070729805 Mycota's bird seed tek. And the wbs that contains the "Bird Coat" is fine to use. It's mearly vitamins and minerals. __________________ How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your MEAT?

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