SEM of Ps. cyanescens and Ps. cyanofriscosa

[mjshroomer]

While I personally do not like the name P. cyanofriscosa, I am using it for lack of anything else. This fall, Dr. Guzman will be naming a specific San Francisco new Psilocybe species in my honor and I personally hope it is not this one.


Here is an SEM mushroom image from specimens collected by "auweia" of the shroomery of Psilocybe cyanofriscosa.



And here is one of Psilocybe cyanescens which "auweia" thought looked azure-like but is actually Psilocybe cyanescens.



I have more SEM's of both species but they will go into a paper which will probably be published next year

mjshroomer

[Sean]

Congrats MJ!!!
You deserve it bro! Blessings to you all you've done. What a great honor! Why don't you want it to be this mushroom? Some people have called it psilocybe cyanescen strain Friscana ( The latin for frisco I guess) in lieu of cyano friscosa. At any rate, a thousand blessings to you. May the mycelium run with you comrade!

[waylitjim]

Originally Posted by mjshroomer

While I personally do not like the name P. cyanofriscosa, I am using it for lack of anything else. This fall, Dr. Guzman will be naming a specific San Francisco new Psilocybe species in my honor and I personally hope it is not this one.

Great photos MJ.
I kinda like the name cyanofriscosa.
The name started on a real rootsy level, and just stuck.
I can't think of a better name, and at this point, why try?

[hyphaenation]

I like the regional name in there to denote where it was first found. Also I like calling it by its other name... the Cyclone. I have yet to see it on agar but for myself but i've seen the pictures.

[auweia]

hope this makes it through. Here's the two SEM that MJ sent me from the specimens I sent him. The 'friscosa' is the one that should look like cyans, and one of these looks very different. I have photos from the exact patch of the 'azure like' I'll try to get up later, but for now, here's a link to recent microscopy of another 'azure like' just a month ago
Spore microscopy photos - Mushroom Hunting - Shroomery Message Board

azure like, possible subaeruginascens related



friscosa



these photos are also the same azure like from just a few weeks ago, and are what is in the Alan Rockefeller/shroomery microscopy links. notice how this doesn't have an annulus, but many times they do have a slight one, or very faint, or sometimes not at all















this one below is from two years ago, and is from the exact same patch that I sent MJ. It is a blow up detail of this azure-like species, and looks nearly identical to what Waylitjim has found

[auweia]

this is from just one hour ago from a patch discovered just 3 weeks ago(only one specimen). It is now flushing basically for the first time(20 specimens), so I suspect this is a spring time fruiter, and we did have some warm temps last week. This new location, I believe only the fourth time ever found in San Francisco Bay Area, is probably more stable than the one found 2 years ago. I will try to let this fruit out and go back next week and see how they are doing. These are very potent

[auweia]

just a short follow up. It is possible something might have gotten mixed up in all this. I know that Peter Werner of the MSSF has examined a specimen from the exact same patch I found from two years ago, which was also sent to MJ I think Workman also got a sample too, or he did at least from Waylitjim

Here's both on the subject of this Azure like species >>

Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? - Mushroom Hunting - Shroomery Message Board

Workman also shows this is very far from cyanescens and is actually in the stuntzii group, although much more potent

again, if anything of the two samples I sent to mj (friscosa and the azure like), it would be the friscosa that would be the match for cyanescens, and the Azure like, which would likely be the new species

Both Peter and Workman have said that the frsicosas are a very close match for cyanescens, while this newer, rare, azure like (subaeruginascens?) is really the likely candidate for a new species

so far comparing this between Workman, Peter Werner, and Gartz, it's not consistent, and I'm wondering if somehow the collection sent to MJ might have gotten reversed in the process, because Peter and Workman agree with two seperate studies of the two types, while MJ's seem the opposite

It's possible I might have had them reversed before I sent it. If it helps, the larger specimen was the friscosa, and the smaller one was the azure like. the friscosa had a much bigger cap

[mjshroomer]

Originally Posted by auweia

just a short follow up. It is possible something might have gotten mixed up in all this. I know that Peter Werner of the MSSF has examined a specimen from the exact same patch I found from two years ago, which was also sent to MJ I think Workman also got a sample too, or he did at least from Waylitjim

so far comparing this between Workman, Peter Werner, and Gartz, it's not consistent, and I'm wondering if somehow the collection sent to MJ might have gotten reversed in the process, because Peter and Workman agree with two seperate studies of the two types, while MJ's seem the opposite

It's possible I might have had them reversed before I sent it. If it helps, the larger specimen was the friscosa, and the smaller one was the azure like. the friscosa had a much bigger cap

That is why I phoned Gartz to have him send the two collections as you sent them to me to Guzman so that guzman can identify both collections. I spilt your collection in half from each of the two dvd cases you sent them in for protection. One half went to the University in Bangkok and the other to Gartz. However, as i noted to you,. Gartz is no longer allowed to work on any chemical analysis of mushrooms found outside of Germany. They have new stricter lawws enacted regarding such research.

That also includes a newer restricted chemical production of many of the compounds in Shulgins two books which up until a little over a year and a half ago were legal to manufacture in Germany or import from Drittlewelles in the grand Turk And Caicos Isles to Germany and that is now illegal. Those people were making massive amounts of 2CB, after purchasing the rights from Isis Health Foods in South African when they made a law making that chemical illegal to ship out of Africa.

I will later, but not today or tomorrow, post the sale promotion sheets for those two companies which are now limited as to where they can sell products.

Shipping to the USA is of course illegal and to most countries int he world, but some countries allow it and have no laws against the products.

mjshroomer

[auweia]

ok cool..That sounds fine

From what I've seen so far with people who have examined these two types under a microscope

>> the friscosas are definitely NOT cyanofibrillosa and are very close to cyanescens because cyanofibrillosa have forked cystidia while friscosas do not (like cyanescens)

see here > http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-m...a-species.html (Psilocybe cyanofriscosa ~ A new CA species)

It is this new 'azure like' that is the odd one out here, even under a microscope. I can tell you one thing for sure..The above photos from yesterday and 3 years ago, along with Waylits finds, is unlike anything I've ever seen before here in the Bay Area in my 25 years of picking

friscosas were bad enough with their convex shape and much larger caps, but this...jeez

This new species is a whole new ballpark..Not only do they start fruiting after all the cyans are long gone, they are more potent than cyans. When I first found that patch 2 years ago, I almost threw them in the garbage, they were THAT different (partly because they were already dried out and had very little noticable bluing)..That is, until I ate one small specimen and had to get off the train and spent the rest of the day biking down by the waterfront, just getting away from people...haha

The texture is much different than both friscosas and cyans, they ofte split along the stems, which cyans and friscosas never do (see photos)..They smell not only stronger, but different when wet..They remind my of liberty cap smell

the trip itself is different than cyans and friscosas..Indescribably so

[waylitjim]

It's really awesome you found another patch Auweia. I've built a bunch of spawn, so I hope to see another flush and spread some spores around. I would love to see this beautiful but endangered species cultivated and spread around to the masses.

The first photo below of Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata does closely resemble the specimens we both found. As the caps dry, they turn a creamy brown color. Another important feature is many of the caps leave a veil remanent. For those wondering what this species is...we don't know. Initial research by Workman, Peter Werner and others have linked it to a Japanese species known as Psilocybe subaeruginascens but I'm not sure anyone is certain yet. More research needs to be done.

[waylitjim]

Originally Posted by auweia

The texture is much different than both friscosas and cyans, and they often split along the stems.

It's true, and that's another good identifying feature.
Just like this one did.



And while we're on the topic of Auweia's 08 find. Here's some awesome photos he took of his first discovery in 06.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...ginascens.html (Psilocybe subaeruginascens)

[mjshroomer]

The trouble of the suspected Japanese Psilocybe subaeruginascens is that it is in a semi tropical climate and is probably also a new species, as is the suspected P. baeocystis/P. aztecorum from Maine,.

I have gone over a few hundred photos of P. baeocystis in the last few days and I am sending them to Workman to also observe. The Maine shroom is close but is probably a new species. I have observed too many differences in the shapes of the caps and in the colors and the lack of extreme instant bluing which usually occurs within ten minutes after handling in the Maine collections and also a lack of pleated caps on many of the collected Maine specimens, as well as a lack of a very indentured incurved margin.

So Workman will have some photo comparison to do between the two species as I am sending him a good amount to show the variation in P. baeos.

While this was once a rare shroom in the PNW and then for 8 years was found in abundance on lawns and mulched bank bed box gardens, and then suddenly disappeared form most lawns in the city, now showing up in suburbs north and souoth and east of Seattle.

I once took Andrew Weil in the mid 1970s to a Boeing lawn with about ten pounds of baeos and dozens of lawns on Boeing properties in Tukwilla which were wall to wall with blue ringers and baeos were common.

mjshroomer,

nite

Originally Posted by waylitjim

It's really awesome you found another patch Auweia. I've built a bunch of spawn, so I hope to see another flush and spread some spores around. I would love to see this rare species cultivated more often.

The first photo below of Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata does closely resemble the specimens we both found. As the caps dry, they turn a creamy brown color. Another important feature is many of the caps leave a veil remanent. For those wondering what this species is...we don't know. Initial research by Workman, Peter Werner and others have linked it to a Japanese species known as Psilocybe subaeruginascens but I'm not sure anyone is certain yet. More research needs to be done.

[mjshroomer]

Those thicker mushrooms look like P. cyanofibrillosa.

I will post a similar pictured which years earlier was positively identified by Michael Beug and photographed by Jeremy Bigwood.

mjshroomer

[auweia]

Yeah, I think that split in the stem very well could be a consistent identifying characteristic. If you pick it a certain way, instead of pulling them up, the stems split open, sort of like a wound up coil. I don't think I've ever seen cyans/friscosas do that

this latest find doesn't seem to have any veil remnant, though the ones from 2 years ago did...still some time left on this latest tho..I hope the gardener doesn't kick these like he did the first one.

Also, I've been watching this spot for awhile now as a good candidate for transplants. The red woodchips were laid maybe 8 months ago, and it's a very moist spot. Previously. there had been tons of red hypholomas just inches away from these new ones, but the red ones are almost all long gone now, and now this new species is coming up, just inches away.

The trigger is definitely something else with these..They're not normal like most west coast stropharias

[auweia]

here's a few more from today. I little larger, and more pins too

[mjshroomer]

Originally Posted by auweia

here's a few more from today. I little larger, and more pins too

Here are three images of Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa from the Seattle area. The first one is by Jeremy Bigwood and identified by Michael Beug.



The 2nd image was taken by @cro when he and I went hunting and this was found on the campus of the U of W. several years ago,



'The Third image is by me of this mushroom collected near the universtiy Village mall.



All three are as identified and are pretty much the same mushroom in yur photos above. In 1984, I found a cluster of these with over one hundren shrooms in a single cluster all bound by the base of their stems to one another.


mjshroomer

[auweia]

ok, but which one was identified as cyans in the microscopy and which one was the new species?
I don't have a microscope myself, but they say that those fibrillosa in Washington have forked cystidia, and none of the ones in SF have that.
That might have to be worked out with Workman and P Werner at the MSSF..What you're saying is different than those two
here's two more photos. and these are the two types I sent you. First, the friscosas, and these average about 3 inches across the cap..Big ones

and this azure like


check the microscopy galleries > Sporeworks Mushroom Gallery

section Stuntzae has one from my collection, the very same spot pictured above, Jan 10, 2006, and one of the samples I sent you was also from that same spot. It was the only spot I found until now, and this new find is still mostly baby ones right now. Only a couple are getting mature. I'm hoping they'll still be there by the end of the week

The friscosa miscroscopy is in the cyanescens section, and I noticed one collection from Washington that Workman says 'once thought to be fibrillosa'

But all the California ones they say are definitely not fibrillosa...That would be the other type I sent you, and likely is the ones Gartz says is cyanescens, because that's what everybody else is seeing under a microscope

Basically, for the above two photos, Gartz is saying ones of those is cyanescens, while the other might be a new species, because those are the two types I sent. Maybe he should look at this page

[mjshroomer]

[Without adding to all of the confusion because you forgot what you actually sent to me, I can only wait until the mushrooms I mailed to gartz are in the hands of Guzman. Then i will be able to tell you exactly what the species are.


My SEM pictures show the two species. One you said was azure like but corresponded to P. cyanescens. It may not be and it could be cyanofibrillosa. the 2nd image was of the ones you listed as cyanofrisoca.

So That is where I will leave this thread until Gartz gets the shrooms to Mexico.

When I mail Gartz, it takes then days to over two weeks to reach iu him in Leipzig. Then another three or for days before he even responds, depending on what he is doing in school.. Then he will mail the specimen so maybe by now, since I talked to him on the phone, he has mailed the shrooms to Guzman.

After I hear form Guzman and that could take another month.

Just think of the time it took for the SEM work. SO many students and teachers are on waiting lists to use the SEM.

Even Aland told of the cost for using it at the school in San Fran but then again you need to be in school to have access to it and it cost about 30-40 dollars for one image.

mjshroomer

[auweia]

OK...yeah that's true they have a new SEM available for public, but it's mostly corporate and expensive.

I didn't forget what I sent you. I know it was friscosas and the azure like (one of each). I'm just saying they could have gotten reversed somehow

anyway, we'll see what Guzman has to say

[auweia]

also, you might want to see this Wiki link

Psilocybe subaeruginascens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in the history section, Peter Werner just removed 'also found in the Bay Area", yet all those photos are from the Bay Area

something is going on there

so far, what they told me is that what Waylit found, what I found, and what is on that Wiki page are the same thing, whatever they are. The ones on the Wiki page were the first finds, in 2004, in Golden Gate Park

[mjshroomer]

Originally Posted by auweia

also, you might want to see this Wiki link

Psilocybe subaeruginascens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in the history section, Peter Werner just removed 'also found in the Bay Area", yet all those photos are from the Bay Area

something is going on there

so far, what they told me is that what Waylit found, what I found, and what is on that Wiki page are the same thing, whatever they are. The ones on the Wiki page were the first finds, in 2004, in Golden Gate Park

I want to share something with you. Never forget that all Psilocybes share certain macroscopic characteristics which may or may not appear with every mushroom. For instance the wavy capped cubensis cultivations photos of South African and some other strains which also mimic the cyanescens shaped cap..

Okay, here is one of the mushrooms of the alleged P. subaeruginascens:


And here is one of Psilocybe samuiensis. You can see that they almost could be the same mushroom.


mjshroomer

[auweia]

Day 4, of this patch. I am starting to see some waviness of the gills now and some hints at waviness of the edges and also some veil remnants now, so this is getting closer to the Pillsbury/Alan Rockefeller/Curecat collection from GG Park as on the Wiki page and also closer to matching Waylits finds. I only picked a few and left the rest. Dry this week, but maybe more rain the weekend, so some of these might make it through to full maturity. It's looking good so far

This is really exciting. Photos from this morning February 26, 2008